Khurasan discussion

[Nick]

Nick, thank you for this post. As I said, Khorasan is the name of a region a territory. Not of any ethnicity.

And therefore, a neutral name. Nick's maps are the evidence for this.

If those who doesn't like Afghanistan? why they came? there is "Stan" based on every Ethnicity. So feel free to join whomever they want.

Khorasan is neutral, so what? our identity is not Neutral, but system is neutral we are not Hitlar like nation, Afghanistan is land of Afghans, those who are not afghan can leave.

[ComradePashtun]

You can't readon with this guy. He has his own problem.

[Nick]

You can't readon with this guy. He has his own problem.

Well he has his points but for us Khorasan has always been a foreign name.

[Nick]

Is this the National Anthem you want for us???????

YouTube - Khorasan "Afghanistan" National Anthem

That is one of my favorite watani song after Mahdi sang for Afghanistan, this is same as Awal Mir's song they are both same lol applied to Afghanistan, now these Tajikistanis have used this song to make it dirty. Awal Mir was from Pakistan and Mehdi was from Herat. Despite all we Farsiwans love both songs.

You also showed another map which was created and that according to them was Khorasan? Fine tell that Gula Agha Ismaili kid What about this one is way too older than Timurid's Khorasan. Original Arabic Khorasan and oldest map that was referred to regions north of Zabulistan and south of Oxus River.

[khushal]

Thankyou NIck,
thats exactly what I have been saying. It is like the west uses the word oriental meaning eastward nobody in southeast asia is going to name their country oriental it is a word that the west uses for a region not a particular country.

Sangar, Sorry to say so but you are misguided. Your intention is something else, I dont know what it is but I have a theory. I think you are referring to a hadith that says that an unstoppable army will arise from khorosan and sweep down and liberate jeruselem. This army will have a symbol of the black flag and when liberated the black flag will be replaced with a white one. The Taliban and al Quiada beleive they are the ones that represent this army from khoransan. Iran believes that they represents this army, Mokhada al sadr from Iraq beleives that his army represents this army (mehdi army). That is why the taliban are making khorsan islamic emerite videos and are completely financed by arab money.

Sangars intention isnt to have a neutral name, his intention is mentioned above

[شمله ور خراساني]

Thankyou NIck,
thats exactly what I have been saying. It is like the west uses the word oriental maning eastward nobody in southeast asia is going to name their country oriental it is a word that the west uses for a region not a particular country.

Sangar, Sorry to say so but you are misguided. Your intention is something else, I dont know what it is but I have a theory. I think you are reffering to a hadith that says that an unstoppable army will arise from khorosan and sweep down and liberate and liberate palistine. This army will have a symbol of the black flag and when liberated the black flag will be replaced with a white one. The Taliban and al Quiada beleive they are the ones that represent this army from khoransan. Iran believes that they represents this army, Mokhada al sadr from Iraq beleives that his army represents this army (mehdis army). That is why the taliban are making khorsan islamic emerite videos and are completely financed by arab money.

Sangars intention isnt to have a neutral name, his intention is mentioned above

you should read the whole thread. That is not my intention. And neither am I misguided. Because the hadith of khurasan and blag flags and mahdi is a weak hadith.

You don't now what my intention is. So you shouldn't make any guesswork regarding my intentions. It does not suite a muslim to talk as such about fellow muslims.

[khushal]

Are you saying this just for the sake of argument, or are you unaware of the fact that less than half can be 1/3 or 1/4 or 1/5 or 1/6?

I am not contradicting myself. You are just saying random things.






I don't care if anybody agrees with me. If the Pashtun population really is the absolute majority in Afghanistan, please provide any evidence for that. So long as there is no evidence, why should I change my stance?

And you are saying that the tajic nationals can fabricate all they want but "you" can never defeat the truth. Have you excluded me out of Pashtun identity because you can't convince? LOL.



Your comparison with Germany was totally useless. And now you are trying to justify it with even more ridiculous claims. If area's west of Indus was Afghania, then where did Afghania end? In Badghis? Herat? Sare Pul? Balkh? Be specific.



You are saying here that Pashtuns never called themselves Afghans before. But then:


You say that the name Afghan was given to Pashtuns by others. Now how are you going to defend that Afghanistan is a Pashto name? Lol. Three of you tried hopelessly to convince me that Afghanistan is a Pashto name. And now you are going against your own fellow Pashtun Nationalists. Give it up.


Khurasan is geographically the modern day Afghanistan. Convince me that it is not and it is some place else.



Gandhara was the name of Pashtunkhwa. And the areas south and east of Kabul. What about northern Afghanistan? Changing it from Afghanistan to Ghandara is the same as Afghanistan.

Bukhara is north of Amur River. That's not even inside the modern Afghanistan. And West Himalayan Republic is again, not a specific name.




Look, I don't know if you are being serious or you are trying to argue just for the sake of argument.

The fact is that Afghanistan is extremely ethnically diverse. We have over 15 languages, so manyu different ethnicities, tribes and cultures.

In order to safeguard our future as a stable and prosperous country, we need to create a common identity and image which represents all of us. If you don't want Afghanistan to be called Persia or Tajikistan, likewise, others might hate the name Afghanistan. Because they do not consider themselves as Afghans.

So why not go for cooptation and create a diverse community of people here every group and ethnicity is represented without having to sacrifice anything?

I don't know why people show so much hostility to the name Khurasan?

It looks as highly irrational to me.

Ok, I just read the whole thread, I guess you said it is a weak hadith already once before. But it is true that the taliban are making those videos because of their beleif in that hadith.
By the way I am not a pushtun Nationalist like you claimed earlier, I disagree with many pushtun natianalist because nationalism makes you weaker not stronger, it divides not unites. That is the reason I am against this name change to khorosan. that would be a goal of nationalists. People would say you are more of a nationalist than I am, nationalist ideas are more disliked by most people of other ethnicities thats why your idea is being attacked. I think is khorosan was truelly a neutral name the idea would not be as much disliked as it is

[khushal]

Yes I know, Sangar despises nationalist but he is so confused that his proposal is a nationalist proposal

[Shayesta]

Is this the National Anthem you want for us???????

Watan Ishqe Tu isn't a national anthem; It's just a patriotic song like Da Zemung Zeba Watan is.

My argument is that a Clean Fresh New Horizon for the country would be symbolically helped by a new name.

How? Will that change people's minds, thinking, way of living, etcetera?

The right countries will chip in to alleviate all this financial misery and stress.

And now the question is; Will our politicians be less corrupt by the name change? Will international nations forget that the name might have been changed but the politicians are the very same selfish and corrupt politicians?

We pledge this, we will donate that, give us ten years and we'll be building you a whole new country...

We have been donated billions of Dollars, what happened? It all went into a few pockets at cost of millions of those who deserved it. Where is the guarantee of it not happening ever again?

Further with the unbeatable name of Khorasan, enemies will not dare to attack.

Once again, it's the very same country which has been graveyards of superpowers. You think if our country was named Khorasan invaders would have thought 'Oh it's such a powerful name! Better not attack this one!,? Afghanistan has lost that charm, the entire region has lost that charm. Even if we name it Afghan States of America, people know that the nation still is the very same nation; Afghan nation.

Khorasan snaps one to attention. No one would think to mess with the residents of Khorasan!

Shouldn't those over forty NATO countries have thought about not messing with Afghanistan after Russia left? Nopes, if people want to mess then they will mess regardless. You think of USA changes it's name to Indiana, enemies will be less wary of them? Look at the timeline from when Pakistan started to mess (and other way round) when the name indeed was 'Khorasan', or when Britain interfered with the very same name; What happened?

So the newly free country MUST be very powerful to intimidate everybody!

A sole country can't be powerful; It's government has to be powerful in order to intimidate everyone! And don't forget that Khorasan is the aim of every single anti-Pukhtoon; May they be Afghan Tajiks, may they be Iranians, may they be anyone else.

[Catya Sher]

I don't have time to address every point raised by Shayesta.
It's Labor Day - and I have to gather my herbs from the garden due to a Freeze Warning these days.

I want to say that NO, Aseer Jan, they aren't traitors.

I DO see that nearly all on the Forum are allergic to the very name Khorasan.
That's why I think Amir al-Ghaznavi was right that it is controversial and what about a compromise of Aryana.

I think both would be good.
Aryana would project beauty, culture, ancient wisdom filtering through to help Afghans recover their REAL SELVES. It would be an anchor point
for regaining self-confidence.
Khorasan definitely projects other qualities. Righteousness and STRENGTH, not weakness.

Afghans are NEVER weak. Ever.

But who could blame them for being discouraged, downcast, etc after all that has happened?

I am speaking about both improvement of morale AND the more subtle spiritual side when I advocate for a name change.
It's not unheard of, though seems weird I agree like in the case of Burma to the unwieldly Myanmar.

For sure no future leader can make a unilateral decision about this.
It MUST be, I keep maintaining, submitted to a REFERENDUM, directly to the people.
I think that's a much better way of governing anyway.
I'm not a fan of "democracy". I don't believe in it at all. Never have.

This plebiscite way is the only way Afghans would be able to say: OK, 90 percent of our country voted for _______. So we'll have __________ as our name.
There would not be infighting as much because the name would be a clear manifestation of the wishes of a majority of the people.
Try to do this through "elected officials" and the result would be hotly disputed because not a person would trust it.

I agree, it was the most unbelievably horrible decision for NATO to invade Afghanistan. Who could imagine they would pull that mean trick ?
I felt betrayed too. After all, I spent a lot of years of my life working and praying to get the Red Army out; then my own country goes and does the same thing!
I was SO upset when I heard of the first planes going into Afghanistan. I was in line for an exhibit "Empire of the Sultans" when a woman near me got word from her brother on her cell phone that he was on his way to attack Kabul.

No one can say whether had the name been changed to Khorasan by 2000, NATO would have been "deterred".
They were planning on taking over Afghanistan for some time. We know that.
BUT: the point here is that there are mystical angles which can make a difference.

GOD maybe would have found a way to divert NATO/U.S. onto other more important matters for them. So their window of "opportunity" would have been lost and the invasion would not have occurred.

The workings of God in international politics can not be discounted or dismissed.

That's why I say that a powerful name sends out energy to say: "Stay away from me". Then God arranges for that to actually happen: no invasion could result.

I am a huge believer in the necessity of having the right energy in the right name.
It can shape a destiny. It does matter, though I realize this attitude will not appeal to all. Especially not to soley rational-minded people.

About the reconstruction, I'm talking about a different government entirely. Of course with Karzai nothing essentially worked out right. Of course nearly all aid that was given headed toward the wrong places. Little got to needy people and causes.

What else would anyone expect? He's basically a puppet the same way that the Khalqi and Parchami leaders were. Just not a communist, thank God for that. But that's all that was good about Karzai.

I think there needs to be as I say a FRESH NEW HAPPY COUNTRY.
How do you get that?
Changing the name is not waving the magic wand to manifest it in a flash. Of course not.

But it can SPIRITUALLY HELP point the destiny of the country in the RIGHT direction.

What about Malalai? If not for HER strength that battle would have been lost.
CONFIDENCE in oneself is everything.
That's what is needed most to build a happy future for all in afghanistan, don't you agree?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

If people want to entertain an idea and even go as to make it official when only say 0.5% of the politically active population or even populace takes it seriously then hey lets entertain some other idea lolzz. Catya everything that you said only makes sense if it was even on the table, but it isn't. It is a fringe idea supporting by a almost dead fringe political group (which were propped by leftists). Ttol gerda qaam tharikh dae pa yaw bae zae ttolanae/gundd la dae warko daa da Afghanistan num ao nakha ahmeyath dae. Tragic.

[Dukhtar-e-Kabul]

As a non-Pashtun I will never ever allow someone to change Afghanistan's name.

I don't care what it means, I don't care if it means land of Pashtoons. Its Afghanistan and its something I am proud of.

[Catya Sher]

Dukhtar-e-Kabul,

That's fine.
If you return here, could you say a few words about why you love the name Afghanistan, which particular reasons come to mind?
Thank you, that would add insight into this picture.

Yes BLS< I agree it's not being discussed anywhere maybe but HERE ! For now, though.

Might as well have arguments prepared in advance, should the option be suggested at a later date.

Doesn't hurt anyway to have people debate these names. It is educational.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Dukhtar-e-Kabul,

That's fine.
If you return here, could you say a few words about why you love the name Afghanistan, which particular reasons come to mind?
Thank you, that would add insight into this picture.

Yes BLS< I agree it's not being discussed anywhere maybe but HERE ! For now, though.

Might as well have arguments prepared in advance, should the option be suggested at a later date.

Doesn't hurt anyway to have people debate these names. It is educational.

Well whatever floats people's boats.

[Mayana]

Ok. We don't get the very essence of this discussion. We all sit here in our warm and cozy homes and literally have absolutely nothing better to do than discussing the name of our country.
Da Seysata ter, da Islamyata ter, da Zakata ter, da Pohani ter, da Karo ter, da Shazo ter, da Mashomaano ter, da Doodi na ter, da Mrasti ter, da Had ter, Khabara ayn Naama ta warasedala.

Are you guys for real? There are people starving in our country, being assassinated in our country, being killed in our country, being raped in our country, drowning in our country and we seriously sit here and discuss its name? Is there absolutely nothing else we could discuss?


There are children in my country who don't even know how to write their own name, let alone the name of the country. As long as the children of a country don't know how to write it, the name of the country is irrelevant.

Go tell someone in Afghanistan what he'd think about altering the name of the country, he'll slap you so hard that you go flying back to where you came from. How about you help that guy live at peace first, employ him first, help him feed his family of 18 first, allow his children to go to school first, allow his wife to leave the house without a curtain around her first, supply him with a functioning infrastructure first.. and THEN start suggesting now/old names for the soil he's living on?

Yeah, how about that?