Khurasan discussion

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Thats not true. You cannot predict future. And what you are saying is based on you assumptions and desires.

First of all, renaming Afghanistan into Khurasan is not only good for Pashtuns. But it also benefits other non-Pashtuns. Because when the country has a neutral name, then people inside Afghanistan can pursue their own happiness by developing their own respective region and lanuage and identity. We can have a Pashtun/Afghan part of Khurasan, and a Tajik/Aymaq/Uzbek part of Khurasan.

If people in the north wish to speak Farsi only, then so be it. They can even call their own region, Tajikistan. Who cares?

People worship names. They think that if Afghanistan is called Afghan then somehow this is a safeguard for Pashtun supremacy. Look ar your "afghan" government and army now. It is controled by America and staffed by 60% tajiks.

A name doesn't mean anything. It only causes confusion when it is tied to a certain ethnicity.

Personally, I never call my Tajik or other non-Pashtun friends and even some relatives Afghans. Because they are not. I wouldn't want to be called Uzbek or Punjabi. Because I am neither of those.

So why would anyone want to be considered as Afghan when they are not Afghans?

Why is it a problem for Pashtuns in Pashtunkhwa to accept their Pakistani ID's? I mean, if you are arguing that some non-Pashtuns have accepted Afghaniyat, then why cant you people accept Pakistniyat?

Your entire post is based on an assumption and desire...pot calling the kettle black.

There is no problem in principle for Pashtunkhwa Pashtuns to accept the ID cards of Pakistan, however based on what the state has done to them and their people west of the durand line...does it make sense? Is it ok for Arabs to take Israeli IDs and passports? In principle, yes...but judging by their actions and policies obviously we get a different idea.

You are just mixing and matching things based on a desire and an assumption that this will help alleviate the problems. I am arguing that it wouldn't. The fundamental problem of Afghanistan is a lack of a proper state, and sovereignty. Once that is established, if Tajiks or uzbeks etc have demands, and they are just...who are we to stop them? That is part of state-making. However, as of now this is not even an issue- bar a few setamis (in fact before them and after them, it wasn't even an issue).

BTW that is your opinion, I know many people who agree with you....but then again in Swat, Dir, Buner and Shangla Pashtuns don't consider another person a Pashtun if they don't possess land...a ddam, kulaal, gujjar etc are not considered Pashtuns as well. Maybe tomorrow that will change. Allah u aalim. I am not talking about that. As of now, give me something concrete.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Your entire post is based on an assumption and desire...pot calling the kettle black.

There is no problem in principle for Pashtunkhwa Pashtuns to accept the ID cards of Pakistan, however based on what the state has done to them and their people west of the durand line...does it make sense? Is it ok for Arabs to take Israeli IDs and passports? In principle, yes...but judging by their actions and policies obviously we get a different idea.

You are just mixing and matching things based on a desire and an assumption that this will help alleviate the problems. I am arguing that it wouldn't. The fundamental problem of Afghanistan is a lack of a proper state, and sovereignty. Once that is established, if Tajiks or uzbeks etc have demands, and they are just...who are we to stop them? That is part of state-making. However, as of now this is not even an issue- bar a few setamis (in fact before them and after them, it wasn't even an issue).

BTW that is your opinion, I know many people who agree with you....but then again in Swat, Dir, Buner and Shangla Pashtuns don't consider another person a Pashtun if they don't possess land...a ddam, kulaal, gujjar etc are not considered Pashtuns as well. Maybe tomorrow that will change. Allah u aalim. I am not talking about that. As of now, give me something concrete.

Where did I ssy that all our problems can be solved with a name change?

And No. I am not being picky in my comparison.

You are claiming Pashtuns are treated like Arabs are treaded by Israel.

Yet, your own fellow Pashtun Nationslists have praised Pakistani army for kicking the **** out of Pashtuns in that video.

Plus, we could argue that based on the crimes commited by Amir Abdurrahman Khan against minorities then in Afghanistan, non-Pashtuns have every right to oppose Afghanistan. Amir Abdurrahman Khan sent Pashtun tribes to massacre people in the north. Many Pashtun tribes in Loy Paktia use to have Uzbek, Hazara and Turkmen slaves.

Those Setamis who have created a movement against Pashtuns were using those crimes as a pretext to oppose Pashtun dominated Khalq communists.

My point is, Khurasan is a neutral name. It is not tied to any ethnicity. And it is a better name compared to Afghanistan or Tajikistan.

Of course we need a strong sovereign state. We also need clean water, and good literature. Many other great things. But we can discuss which one is better and why. Just having such discussions shouldn't imply that it means, our entire future depends on these choices.

I have presented my arguments in support of the name change. You are free to disagree. But it does not mean that hte name change will not solve problems other than the ones related to the name of the country.

[Abdul Haq]

[شمله ور خراسان;
My point is, Khurasan is a neutral name. It is not tied to any ethnicity. And it is a better name compared to Afghanistan or Tajikistan.
problems other than the ones related to the name of the country.

not agree...

Khurasan is rather tied to tajik ethnicity not pashuns, Afghanistan was given as an alternative by great Ahmad shahm to remove the ideology of Khurasanis and make a great and united Afghanistan..

[شمله ور خراساني]

not agree...

Khurasan is rather tied to tajik ethnicity not pashuns, Afghanistan was given as an alternative by great Ahmad shahm to remove the ideology of Khurasanis and make a great and united Afghanistan..

Could you provide any reference where I can learn more about this what you are saying?

[khushal]

Sangar you point seems logical but I still think changing the name would create an ethnocentric society. When you talk about the past atrocities that were committed, sad as they were does not prevent them from happening again simply by changeing the name. You have to take more concrete steps to make the minorities and the majority feel safe. This was the case during zahir shaws time. nobody really felt threatened by the other even though the country was named afghanistan. And those atrocities you speak of in the past didnt start at that time, there were many attrocities that happened before that against all ethnicities. These attrocities have been happening for thousands of years. Do you really beleive abdur rahman started the attrocities. they started long before that. Dont you think abdur rahman had a pretext for doing what he did and so on and so on

[ComradePashtun]

Sangar Khana,

Are you sure you are in tune with reality and do you really know what you are saying? I wonder if your certain political stances are strongly opinated by some srt of personal dilemmas and perhaps identity crisis. You lost soul.

You issue decrees of jehad on Pashtun nationalists who demand nothing but farwell and peace only for their people and you brand them as murtads and all sorts of filthy stuff - whilst you want to appease a Tajik fascist group to the extend of changing the name of our country, for which we have lost the blood of our millions over centuries. This fasscist group is more important to you, as you consider yourself to be some kind massiah for being half Tajik and half Pashtun, who are not even a bleep on the political radar and they do not even command 3% of Tajik population support? From this alone, I consider your ideas a brain-fart but nothing more! So these Tjik fascist, who work hand in hand with America and others, who deliberately even kill Pashtuns are now only agitators and rational minded Pashtun are murtads, for you? I feel like biting your face!


Let me tell a few facts if it may knock some sense in to your confused head:

1- Any name change will be met with ultimate resistance from Pashtun and will only unleaseh unknown consequences and the spectre of what may it lead to is something you wont have a say in and your Tajik fascist on the ground and their foreign guardians will think over it times and again. Mark my word, son. You heard of Rambo saying, the vengance of Afghan and poison of Cobra?

2-You need to go to Afghanistan and you need educate yourself about politics in Afghanistan and then find out if such a demand really exists there, than being overwhlmed by your few confused Tajiki cousins who live in Khar O Assan land on the virtual net and may you have come accross one in Holland.

3-You are a shame and disgrace to Pashtun and Ahmedzai in particular. You don't need to tell us about Tajik warrior uniting against us. We really are not the faint minded confused ones, Sangar Khana. We know more about your Tajik warior than they may know about themselves and you could join them too for the further potential.

4- I don't know why you brag about your Ahmedzai background, when infact you hardly know anything about them. And what do you know about Pashtun population south of Kabul? Are you freaking out of your mind about Pashtun have deserted Afghanistan and we are merely 30%? Are you sure you have been to Afghanistan recently? What does it mean when you say, we are niminal or our dominance is minimal?

5-Sangara, I guarantee you that people in your own tribe will make you meet the fate of the Chinese delicacy with skinning the dog.


Be very careful, when you utter these ideas and think before.

[Emal_khan]

Plus, Afghanistan is likewise a Farsi name. Stan is farsi. If Afghanistan really was a Pashtun name, then it would have been called Afghankhwa. Not Afghanistan.

salamona. Stan is not a farsi name. the suffix stan (sthana) is a pure sanskrit name. As for the suffix "khwa" literally it means side and direction not land. in pashto we still use the word sthana as astogan استوګن resident, habitation and rest.

Btw: most Pashtuns today live in Pakistan. Current Pashtun population of Afghanistan does not exceed 8 million.

Btw. do you have any proof for the above statement?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Where did I ssy that all our problems can be solved with a name change?

And No. I am not being picky in my comparison.

You are claiming Pashtuns are treated like Arabs are treaded by Israel.

Yet, your own fellow Pashtun Nationslists have praised Pakistani army for kicking the **** out of Pashtuns in that video.

Plus, we could argue that based on the crimes commited by Amir Abdurrahman Khan against minorities then in Afghanistan, non-Pashtuns have every right to oppose Afghanistan. Amir Abdurrahman Khan sent Pashtun tribes to massacre people in the north. Many Pashtun tribes in Loy Paktia use to have Uzbek, Hazara and Turkmen slaves.

Those Setamis who have created a movement against Pashtuns were using those crimes as a pretext to oppose Pashtun dominated Khalq communists.

My point is, Khurasan is a neutral name. It is not tied to any ethnicity. And it is a better name compared to Afghanistan or Tajikistan.

Of course we need a strong sovereign state. We also need clean water, and good literature. Many other great things. But we can discuss which one is better and why. Just having such discussions shouldn't imply that it means, our entire future depends on these choices.

I have presented my arguments in support of the name change. You are free to disagree. But it does not mean that hte name change will not solve problems other than the ones related to the name of the country.

So where are there rallies Sangar? They do every right, but let them bring it forward? BTW if they came to criticize Amir Abdur Rehman, even Pashtuns would join in, as you know very well, he did worse to us. So that is barely a claim that only one ethnic group can cling on to.

Even today the name change is barely even a political issue. If it was like the Pashtunkhwa issye then yes your point would have some merit....but as it stands it has little to none. If anything, it will end up doing the exact opposite...further set the division between the groups.

Oh and those nationalists are yours as well...just as talibs are part of our society so are nationaliyaan. They took a stand based on the idea that ISI and army (and US and saudi) are the people who brought this mess to Pashtun society...so they have asked them to clean it up. Obviously they can't be against talibinazation on one hand and then when the army comes in to do an operation simultaneously be against it. It wouldn't be a logical move on their behalf. I personally am critical of the operations be it by NATO or PAK army, nor do I like our people being killed by them. Having said that, that still doesn't mean anything. Say for arguments that is all nationaliyaans fault? Fine, so they are either highly incompetent or compromised. The point I put forward still stands.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Sangar you point seems logical but I still think changing the name would create an ethnocentric society. When you talk about the past atrocities that were committed, sad as they were does not prevent them from happening again simply by changeing the name. You have to take more concrete steps to make the minorities and the majority feel safe. This was the case during zahir shaws time. nobody really felt threatened by the other even though the country was named afghanistan. And those atrocities you speak of in the past didnt start at that time, there were many attrocities that happened before that against all ethnicities. These attrocities have been happening for thousands of years. Do you really beleive abdur rahman started the attrocities. they started long before that. Dont you think abdur rahman had a pretext for doing what he did and so on and so on

Our society is ethnocentric? What could possibly make it even more ethnocentric? Choosing a neutral name or maintaining the status quo where people educated men and women who are professors at Universities in Afghanistan stage rallies and instigate the youth because of silly names.

Atrocities, have nothing to do with the current situation. People are ethnocentric and fascist. If you go to Kabul, and if you can't speak Farsi, in some offices you wont even be heard. Likewise, in other offices, if they even smell a slight Panjsheri accent, you're gone.

And this is the status quo. How much more ethnocentric can we get by choosing a neutral name for the country?

My problem is, is that if we presist on something just because of our emotional attachment to the name, in what way are we any better than others?

This emotional attachment to ancient glory of Afghans is something that is blinding people to the realities I am trying to draw people's attention to.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

salamona. Stan is not a farsi name. the suffix stan (sthana) is a pure sanskrit name. As for the suffix "khwa" literally it means side and direction not land. in pashto we still use the word sthana as astogan استوګن resident, habitation and rest.


Btw. do you have any proof for the above statement?

Thank the Lord. Good to see you Emal Jaana stating this. Finally another one who understands that stan isn't persian.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Thank the Lord. Good to see you Emal Jaana stating this. Finally another one who understands that stan isn't persian.

Since when is Farsi not sanscrit? LOL

[شمله ور خراساني]

salamona. Stan is not a farsi name. the suffix stan (sthana) is a pure sanskrit name. As for the suffix "khwa" literally it means side and direction not land. in pashto we still use the word sthana as astogan استوګن resident, habitation and rest.


Btw. do you have any proof for the above statement?

Are you saying that Farsi is somehow not sankrit but Pashto is? Where do you get that from?

And I don't have exact figures about the current Pashtun population of Afghanistan. But a rough estimate would be anythhing in that region.

We know for fact that there are millions more Pashtuns in Pakistan though.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Since when is Farsi not sanscrit? LOL

Tsenga? By that argument pashto is more sanskrit than farsi...afterall Pashto comes from Avestan which is a sister language of sanskrit.

[شمله ور خراساني]

So where are there rallies Sangar? They do every right, but let them bring it forward? BTW if they came to criticize Amir Abdur Rehman, even Pashtuns would join in, as you know very well, he did worse to us. So that is barely a claim that only one ethnic group can cling on to.

Even today the name change is barely even a political issue. If it was like the Pashtunkhwa issye then yes your point would have some merit....but as it stands it has little to none. If anything, it will end up doing the exact opposite...further set the division between the groups.

Oh and those nationalists are yours as well...just as talibs are part of our society so are nationaliyaan. They took a stand based on the idea that ISI and army (and US and saudi) are the people who brought this mess to Pashtun society...so they have asked them to clean it up. Obviously they can't be against talibinazation on one hand and then when the army comes in to do an operation simultaneously be against it. It wouldn't be a logical move on their behalf. I personally am critical of the operations be it by NATO or PAK army, nor do I like our people being killed by them. Having said that, that still doesn't mean anything. Say for arguments that is all nationaliyaans fault? Fine, so they are either highly incompetent or compromised. The point I put forward still stands.

I am sensing you are replying partially to another statement of mine, and less focussing on the last reply to you. So I don't know exactly how I can address what you are saying.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Tsenga? By that argument pashto is more sanskrit than farsi...afterall Pashto comes from Avestan which is a sister language of sanskrit.

And farsi is not? LOL Are you saying pashto is somehow more closer to sanskrit than farsi?