Obituary for Abdul Raziq

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Lol really? You want to post random unsourced claims here without being questioned.

This is like Trump at a press conference.

If you support the Kabul regime because they can build things, just state it proudly like Azmal. No need to run around in circles

If I were punting random unsourced claims, I'd be a Taliban apologist lol

[maneatinglizard]

Well the "building things" ability was introduced by Iblis in as his measure of support for the Kabul regime.

It doesn’t really matter who brought it up. I’m just saying it’s a weak argument for either side because the rule of the two governments didn’t occur in similar scenarios.

Fact is the Kabul regime is an occupation regime that serves no other purpose aside from being a front for the US/NATO war effort.

That’s an oversimplification. You don’t have to like the government (and I completely agree that it’s a puppet state), but it does more than just serve as a front for the war.

[randolph85]

I still am baffled at your remark on tanks and aircaft. That Taliban didn' know how to drive tanks and that they were mostly from the madrassas.

So every side of the conflict knew how to use tanks except the Taliban? Sure there must have been a few communists who joined the Taliban but not enough to be credited with driving mostly alll Taliban tanks.

Do you have s source for this ?

Where did I say other sides didn’t have former government military operating their heavy machinery? Former commies were a commodity because they had real conventional military training whereas until the civil war, the Muj groups only had guerilla experience. I think you are irrationally defending the Taliban as some sort of beacon of light in the darkness or some ****. This is 2018 and not 2008 when people could still say the Taliban leadership was based in Afg and had no Paki support. Whereas now it’s clear as day that that is horse**** and trying to argue differently makes one a Trump Level buffoon.

Also, what do I need a source for? Did the Taliban hold some workshop on how to fly aircraft for their recruits?

Taliban parade, Kabul, Afghanistan - YouTube

[randolph85]

That's a divergent issue, and also I'm not sure of the factual basis of Massoud in Hezb i Islami [MENTION=1902]randolph85[/MENTION] is that correct?

I don’t know about Khalis since he was much older than the others but Massoud and Hekmatyar were basically the Ikhwan youth with Rabbani as their political/social leader in the days of Muslim vs Socialists at Kabul University.

Massoud wasn’t in Hezb I don’t think unless it was one of those things where he had the card before the party was a real thing. Hard to tell because there isn’t much record of the pre invasion Muslim activism days. I would like to read that book though instead of listening to a drunk kaka.

[randolph85]

Its the system that says its ok to steal the national treasure. If you have a position in the gov for example in customs, your expected to steal to pay your boss who gave you the position, he expects a certain sum every month otherwise your out of a job. Rumor in Jaji is that the guy who controls the customs along the paki border pays his boss $50k a month and has become extremely wealthy buying up property in in Dubia and Kabul. According to reports, Gen Razik was collecting $8 million a month in his own pocket from the spin boldak customs buying up property in Kabul, Dubia and Tajikistan. This money is supposed to be going to the national treasury paying for security. Why is my tax money paying for their security.

You do realize that candidates spend millions of USD to get "elected" by bribing poor people with food and actually giving away money for votes. People show up for the free meal or some currency to vote.They hold partys at the hotels, give money and food at the masjids and other so called "charity work" during elections. Once they get "elected," they are then in position to steal the national treasury. Munafiqyan investments.



Hekmatyar was not a unifying figure, many jumped ship way before the Soviet withdrawal or the rise of the Taliban. Mullah Omar was a unifying figure. When his death was announced, many splinter groups started to form. I dont know about the tank comment. Its not that difficult to figure out how to operate a tank, but you could say that the jets were flown by guys that were in the Afghan Army. But those are army personal with skills who need a job.

People work for their best interests. The Taliban aligning with some joe shmoe commander in an area vs aligning with Najib are different matters. Its not as black and white.

You are mentioning the nature of Afghans. It’s like criticizing the Quran because people abuse it (In no way am I comparing the texts) The corrupt people you mention you cannot deny are Afghan the same with opponents of the Taliban they cannot discount them by calling them Paki. We lie, steal, cheat. Had the Taliban experienced this same flow of money then you might of seen the same thing you see in Iran with their halal corruption. God knows best.

Mullah Omar had a unique mystique which is true but for a man who spoke little and we know almost nothing about, it is probably a misplaced alliegance. In the linear leadership of the Afghan Taliban, Omar dies under circumstances that even today no one really knows about. Mansour pretends he is alive for 2 years sending out Eid messages to the general public and probably dozens (hundreds?) of edicts internally. This is 2018, has the new emir even been on video to talk to the Afghan nation?

[Azmal]

Arguing over which “side” is better able to build infrastructure and the like is pointless because neither side actually does any of that. Regardless of who runs Afghanistan, the trained technicians and engineers that actually plan, design, and build infrastructure would be the same. Unless the people doing all of that are foreigners, in which case we’re screwed either way (but I don’t believe this is the case).

If the Taliban took over, they’d have the same group of engineers and technicians to run the day to day functions of the government that Ghani’s regime does. It’s not like they’d just kick out the experts and replace them with illiterate villagers lol.

The New York Times wrote a detailed piece that looked into the way ISIS governed, and what they found was that they basically took all the bureaucrats that were already running the government, kicked out the Shias, forced everyone to grow out their beards, and then let them do their jobs. What they also found out was the government was actually operating better under ISIS’ control than under the US backed government, despite the people actually doing the day to day work being the same.

Why? Because ISIS was not corrupt, unlike the US backed government, and they had a functional, consistent system of punishment for people who broke the rules.

We see a similar situation with the Taliban ruled areas of Afghanistan. They generally let the experts do their jobs (the one exception I’ve heard of is teachers, where they sometimes replace the government appointed teachers for their own people), but run the government more effectively because they’re not corrupt.

Why would anyone expect any different if the Taliban took over a major city like Kabul?

As for citing the Taliban’s inability to build anything during their rule, there’s a big difference between the country then and the country now. Afghanistan in the 90s was a destroyed country that had suffered an extreme loss of expertise over 15 years of war. No one would’ve been able to do much with the country in that state, because all the people who knew how to run important governmental functions had either died or fled the country. Today the country has plenty of bureaucrats, technicians, experts, etc.

So the real question should be, could the Taliban take over the country without causing another massive brain drain (whether that be due to a prolonged war, or people leaving the country because they don’t want to live under Taliban rule, or perhaps an economic collapse caused by the likely withdrawal of aid money from Western nations). Because without that happening, it’s hard to argue that the Taliban couldn’t run the country better than the current regime.

really?
1- electronic ID card
2- Salma Dame
3- Chabahar agreement
4- export import with China through train
5- peace agreement with Hikmatyar
6- lapis lazooly silk route
7- air atriums
8- kajaki dam
9- modernization of tax in ministry of finance
10- TAPI project
e.t.c..


Discussions on Lapis Lazuli project underway in Turkmenistan's Avaza (PHOTO)

Initial work/study on more then 16 dame has been completed. Most importantly for first time in years Afg regain her pressure on Punjabi state in shape of PTM.

[khushal]

That's a divergent issue, and also I'm not sure of the factual basis of Massoud in Hezb i Islami [MENTION=1902]randolph85[/MENTION] is that correct?

Youre all over the place. The point was that Hekmatyar was not a unifying figure and Khallis was not part of Hekmatyars party at the time. They had long split. You were under the impression that the two operated different wings of the same party because of the same name but that is not the case. They were two different parties.

FYI: I never said that Masoud was part of Hezb. Hezb was formed after Jamiat so Hekmatyar was part of Jamiat(Hekmatyar was also a part of the communist party before he joined Jamiat). Rabani formed Jamiat and was inspired by Jamiat in Pakistan. When Daud tried to arrest Rabani after trying to attempt a coup which was a very weak attempt, he fled to Pakistan and Jamiat of Pakistan hosted him.

[khushal]

You are mentioning the nature of Afghans. It’s like criticizing the Quran because people abuse it (In no way am I comparing the texts) The corrupt people you mention you cannot deny are Afghan the same with opponents of the Taliban they cannot discount them by calling them Paki. We lie, steal, cheat. Had the Taliban experienced this same flow of money then you might of seen the same thing you see in Iran with their halal corruption. God knows best.

Mullah Omar had a unique mystique which is true but for a man who spoke little and we know almost nothing about, it is probably a misplaced alliegance. In the linear leadership of the Afghan Taliban, Omar dies under circumstances that even today no one really knows about. Mansour pretends he is alive for 2 years sending out Eid messages to the general public and probably dozens (hundreds?) of edicts internally. This is 2018, has the new emir even been on video to talk to the Afghan nation?

Halal corruption. lol

Its about the system. Whether you build a corrupt system or a good system, then people will work within that system. If people are allowed to steal, they will steal. If there are consequences to stealing, then it is decreased. Right now, the fact is there is no consequence to stealing but a reward for stealing so stealing is not only allowed but encouraged.

Iran today is not as corrupt as during the Shah. One of the reasons Ahmedinijad was so popular was he was tackling corruption and challenging the "oil mafia." But its not the flow of money that has corrupted Iran, it is the traditions of corruption from the Shah era that still exist.

The existence of M Omar has no bearing on corruption which by the way no reputable source question his existence. If anything it was in their interest to keep the appearance that he was still alive to keep the unity since he was a unifying figure just like it was in the US interest to throw OBL body into the sea so people wont create some kind of monument after him because they knew that would happen.

[khushal]

really?
1- electronic ID card
2- Salma Dame
3- Chabahar agreement
4- export import with China through train
5- peace agreement with Hikmatyar
6- lapis lazooly silk route
7- air atriums
8- kajaki dam
9- modernization of tax in ministry of finance
10- TAPI project
e.t.c..


Discussions on Lapis Lazuli project underway in Turkmenistan's Avaza (PHOTO)

Initial work/study on more then 16 dame has been completed. Most importantly for first time in years Afg regain her pressure on Punjabi state in shape of PTM.

The rewards from that go into pockets of the wolves. Ordinary Afghans wont benefit from it.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

The rewards from that go into pockets of the wolves. Ordinary Afghans wont benefit from it.

even if we assume that is true, they're still capable of doing things the Taliban can't.

[maneatinglizard]

Youre all over the place. The point was that Hekmatyar was not a unifying figure and Khallis was not part of Hekmatyars party at the time. They had long split. You were under the impression that the two operated different wings of the same party because of the same name but that is not the case. They were two different parties.

FYI: I never said that Masoud was part of Hezb. Hezb was formed after Jamiat so Hekmatyar was part of Jamiat(Hekmatyar was also a part of the communist party before he joined Jamiat). Rabani formed Jamiat and was inspired by Jamiat in Pakistan. When Daud tried to arrest Rabani after trying to attempt a coup which was a very weak attempt, he fled to Pakistan and Jamiat of Pakistan hosted him.

You mean Massoud? I know Massoud was a commie before joining Jamiat, but I haven't heard of Gulbadin ever being one.

[randolph85]

Halal corruption. lol

Its about the system. Whether you build a corrupt system or a good system, then people will work within that system. If people are allowed to steal, they will steal. If there are consequences to stealing, then it is decreased. Right now, the fact is there is no consequence to stealing but a reward for stealing so stealing is not only allowed but encouraged.

Iran today is not as corrupt as during the Shah. One of the reasons Ahmedinijad was so popular was he was tackling corruption and challenging the "oil mafia." But its not the flow of money that has corrupted Iran, it is the traditions of corruption from the Shah era that still exist.

The existence of M Omar has no bearing on corruption which by the way no reputable source question his existence. If anything it was in their interest to keep the appearance that he was still alive to keep the unity since he was a unifying figure just like it was in the US interest to throw OBL body into the sea so people wont create some kind of monument after him because they knew that would happen.

So which is the problem to you because I still don’t understand, the system of governance or how people in power abuse it? On paper the modern government system is a decent one if you ignore the corrupt nature of the Afghan elite and the fact it was created by foreigners. If we were not as corrupt and Afghans had created this system independently, there would be no complaints.

Iran is corrupt as hell. The Revolutionary Guard is a better business than a military force. This is not Egypt where the Ikhwan were sabatoged by the deep Mubarak state who ruled the country for decades and still controlled state institutions after his fall and didn’t let the Morsi government get anything done. The Shah era has been dead for 40 years.

The US disposing of bin ladens body so it won’t be a monument to his supporters was a generic response as to why they did it, nevermind that his supporters aren’t exactly grave worshippers.

So would you be okay with the Taliban continuing the farce of Mullah Omar being alive to this day had it not been exposed? We are not only talking about some
figurehead or symbolic figure of a resistance but according to the Taliban, him, Mansour, and Hibatullah are/were the heads of state of Afghanistan.

[randolph85]

You mean Massoud? I know Massoud was a commie before joining Jamiat, but I haven't heard of Gulbadin ever being one.

There are old reports that he was aligned with the socialist movement initially in the Kabul university days but I take a lot of these stories with a grain of salt. Hekmatyar was a communist, Massoud collaborated with Soviets, etc..

It seems like a lot of history from those days was written with political motives.

[Insight]

So which is the problem to you because I still don’t understand, the system of governance or how people in power abuse it? On paper the modern government system is a decent one if you ignore the corrupt nature of the Afghan elite and the fact it was created by foreigners. If we were not as corrupt and Afghans had created this system independently, there would be no complaints.

Iran is corrupt as hell. The Revolutionary Guard is a better business than a military force. This is not Egypt where the Ikhwan were sabatoged by the deep Mubarak state who ruled the country for decades and still controlled state institutions after his fall and didn’t let the Morsi government get anything done. The Shah era has been dead for 40 years.

The US disposing of bin ladens body so it won’t be a monument to his supporters was a generic response as to why they did it, nevermind that his supporters aren’t exactly grave worshippers.

So would you be okay with the Taliban continuing the farce of Mullah Omar being alive to this day had it not been exposed? We are not only talking about some
figurehead or symbolic figure of a resistance but according to the Taliban, him, Mansour, and Hibatullah are/were the heads of state of Afghanistan.

An occupation regime is a puppet regime. Other then discussing how far and to what angle they bend over, there is nothing really else of substance to the Kabul regime.

Ghani/Karzai/Abdullah can't even stop the US and Trump from talking to the Taliban. Like a puppet,they stop protesting about the US-Taliban negotiations when they are told to. Thats a puppet.

You may keep assuming this war will go on forever "because Afghanistan is so strategically important to the US." There is a reason so many neocons hate Trump (Max Boot -a pro War hawk is an example)

[Azmal]

The rewards from that go into pockets of the wolves. Ordinary Afghans wont benefit from it.

Reward for building infrastructure? You are not such a retard as you trying to sound. Business in Afg is amazingly flourishing even without security and attacks. Shatooot dume in kabul will provide drinking water for 2 million kabulis, the city as 5 million population yet during Taliban it was empty. Every day new project is being completed and soon with chakhabur opening there will be no need for Pakistan.

Afghan Exports Through Air Corridors To Total $1M | TOLOnews