Is Pashtunwali Pagan?

[Firdousi]

In my thread regarding Nowruz, Mr [MENTION=19809]Akbar[/MENTION] claimed that Nowruz is a pagan celebration for it predates Islam. I find his point legit. But when I asked him about Pashtunwali, which is also a pre-Islamic code, he refused to answer and instead asked me to make a new thread.

So now, please answer Mr [MENTION=19809]Akbar[/MENTION]

[Akbar]

No it is not as you can't prove its connected to a pagan religion like nowroz is.
The closest theory is it is derived from Mosaic law. So if it is from israelite traditions than no it won't be from a Pagan religion but from abrahamic religion.

Pashtuns follow Sharia and Islam is the dominant factor in life and the worship of Allah swt alone. Anything that goes against Islam is shunned.

Btw you didn't have to mention me as everyone can read for themselves but again you go on ad hominem, stay on topic.

[Peacelove]

No it is not as you can't prove its connected to a pagan religion like nowroz is.
The closest theory is it is derived from Mosaic law. So if it is from israelite traditions than no it won't be from a Pagan religion but from abrahamic religion.

Pashtuns follow Sharia and Islam is the dominant factor in life and the worship of Allah swt alone. Anything that goes against Islam is shunned.

Btw you didn't have to mention me as everyone can read for themselves but again you go on ad hominem, stay on topic.

You mean to say Pre-Islamic, Pakhtuns were Jewish ? I think @Samandari has been banned otherwise he could have elaborated more on this...Jews are/were the people of book and all there laws are written

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

i'm pretty sure it was practiced by pagan Pashtiuns because according to Islamic Chroniclers, the ancestors of modern Afghans were not fully Islamized until around 11th century.

and even if we try to use the "bait and switch" approach and say "Pagan" vs. "Preislamic'. if we use the "We only follow Muhammad and ignore all the old messengers' angle that couple of members in that thread were spinning. Then PreIslamic would imply that according to their standards it's not valid.


Firdousi, I'm glad you asked this question, because it really reveals that the animosity against Nawroz at least here is driven more by bias and hypocrisy; religion is being used as a scapegoat.

there's nothing wrong with celebrating Nawruz, in Islam or in anything. Islam is about your character and principles and how you use them in your relationship with society and with the Cosmos and with God, not whether you abide by every bit of minutia based on some really blown out of context circumstances relayed in Islamic canon.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Btw you didn't have to mention me as everyone can read for themselves but again you go on ad hominem, stay on topic.

That's not what Ad-Hominem means brother.

[Akbar]

That's not what Ad-Hominem means brother.

Brother I know you want to argue for the sake if it and will mostly choose the opposite side but I'm not going to argue endlessly.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

The closest theory is it is derived from Mosaic law. So if it is from israelite traditions than no it won't be from a Pagan religion but from abrahamic religion.

But weren't you saying something like we don't follow the other prophets anymore, we only follow Muhammad(saw), so why would we abide by Mosaic Law based on vantage point when it's Pre-Islamic, what Islamic Jurisprudent has ratified Pashtunwali as reflective of Shar'iah?

you're back peddling on your original argument somewhat.

[Akbar]

i'm pretty sure it was practiced by pagan Pashtiuns because according to Islamic Chroniclers, the ancestors of modern Afghans were not fully Islamized until around 11th century.

and even if we try to use the "bait and switch" approach and say "Pagan" vs. "Preislamic'. if we use the "We only follow Muhammad and ignore all the old messengers' angle that couple of members in that thread were spinning. Then PreIslamic would imply that according to their standards it's not valid.


Firdousi, I'm glad you asked this question, because it really reveals that the animosity against Nawroz at least here is driven more by bias and hypocrisy; religion is being used as a scapegoat.

there's nothing wrong with celebrating Nawruz, in Islam or in anything. Islam is about your character and principles and how you use them in your relationship with society and with the Cosmos and with God, not whether you abide by every bit of minutia based on some really blown out of context circumstances relayed in Islamic canon.

Brother that is your opinion but it is wise not to do personal attacks as that would equal to ad hominem.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Brother I know you want to argue for the sake if it and will mostly choose the opposite side but I'm not going to argue endlessly.

You did say he can make a new thread about it .....and you were making that argument. That's not what ad-hominem means,

Ad-Hominem is when you say 'oh what he says can't be right, his argument is wrong ....this is the same guy who steals candy from babies ...and once punched an old woman'

He just mentioned you because you were confronted with that question. I'm only taking his side because you're showing signs that you may be biased and also you're not being consistent at least at this point you're talking about 'Mosaic Law'.

JUst to let you know two things
a.) Shari'ah has not given any ratification for using Mosaic Law except Muslims can eat Kosher meats.
b.) No known Islamic Scholar has said Pashtunwali is an extension of Mosaic Law

just wanted to make sure that you understand that you're making a lot of assumptions without a basis here.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Brother that is your opinion but it is wise not to do personal attacks as that would equal to ad hominem.

Which part was a "personal attack" brother?

[Akbar]

But weren't you saying something like we don't follow the other prophets anymore, we only follow Muhammad(saw), so why would we abide by Mosaic Law based on vantage point when it's Pre-Islamic, what Islamic Jurisprudent has ratified Pashtunwali as reflective of Shar'iah?

you're back peddling on your original argument somewhat.

Ok
That's a good point.
we do follow prophet Muhammad pbuh and sharia.
I was mentioning the ones that the other poster mentioned which are not deemed prophets in Islam for example zardusht or like he said prophet to Australia Mexico etc.

The guy here mentioned that if Pashtunwali is derived from paganism , I gave my answer now it's up to him to reject it and put forward evidence.

[Akbar]

Which part was a "personal attack" brother?

Please reread yours and his posts and get back to me about it.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Please reread yours and his posts and get back to me about it.

Ok I see nothing there that I can discern as a personal attack ....maybe you're just being defensive.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Ok
That's a good point.
we do follow prophet Muhammad pbuh and sharia.
I was mentioning the ones that the other poster mentioned which are not deemed prophets in Islam for example zardusht or like he said prophet to Australia Mexico etc.

The guy here mentioned that if Pashtunwali is derived from paganism , I gave my answer now it's up to him to reject it and put forward evidence.

Fair enough; but I think you're being a bit mistaken IMO. From my experience, very rarely are Pashtuns strictly abiding Shari'ah. Yes, Pashtuns are strict, they're very conservative, but do a lot of things that are contrary to Shari'ah

for example swarlay. That is not Shari'ah, but Mashar almost always ratify it.

[Akbar]

Fair enough; but I think you're being a bit mistaken IMO. From my experience, very rarely are Pashtuns strictly abiding Shari'ah. Yes, Pashtuns are strict, they're very conservative, but do a lot of things that are contrary to Shari'ah

for example swarlay. That is not Shari'ah, but Mashar almost always ratify it.

What is swarlay?
I thought it means a ride.