Is Pashtunwali Pagan?

[Sarbani]

Pashtunwali is a moral code, but some aspects of it does conflict with Islam.

Such as?

[jama0112]

What's kharoti? A tribe?

[Firdousi]

No it is not as you can't prove its connected to a pagan religion like nowroz is.
The closest theory is it is derived from Mosaic law. So if it is from israelite traditions than no it won't be from a Pagan religion but from abrahamic religion.

Pashtuns follow Sharia and Islam is the dominant factor in life and the worship of Allah swt alone. Anything that goes against Islam is shunned.

Btw you didn't have to mention me as everyone can read for themselves but again you go on ad hominem, stay on topic.

First off I would like to apologize for my bad words.

Secondly Pashtunwali is a moral code.. we have Quran why do you need an additional code? Its a pagan code and should be banned.

Thirdly Zoroastrians are not Pagans. Historically they were considered "ahl al kitab" and thats why they were tolerated by early Muslim rulers.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

First off I would like to apologize for my bad words.

Secondly Pashtunwali is a moral code.. we have Quran why do you need an additional code? Its a pagan code and should be banned.

Thirdly Zoroastrians are not Pagans. Historically they were considered "ahl al kitab" and thats why they were tolerated by early Muslim rulers.

I agree with almost everything ...and I understand that you're being Socratic when you say "it's a Pagan code and should be banned"

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

What's kharoti? A tribe?

Nope, it's a type of candy that we give to kushni during Nawroz

lol

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

In my thread regarding Nowruz, Mr [MENTION=19809]Akbar[/MENTION] claimed that Nowruz is a pagan celebration for it predates Islam. I find his point legit. But when I asked him about Pashtunwali, which is also a pre-Islamic code, he refused to answer and instead asked me to make a new thread.

So now, please answer Mr [MENTION=19809]Akbar[/MENTION]

Pashtunwali means the Pashtun way of doing things. Pashtuns are people. They’re doing allot of things that are considered pashtunwali and some of it is against sharia law. Pashtunwali as a culture of tradition of an ethnic group encompasses many things. Being a practicing Muslim is in most parts of the Pashtun belt also considered Pashtunwali. Not preying, shaving the beard and drinking alcohol is deemed as below Pashtun standards.

Nawroz is a very specific celebration on a specific time of the year for a specific reason. It is specifically mentioned in Islamic books of law written by scholars who lived in a Persian society. They knew exactly what it was and argued that is haram for Muslims to participate in such celebrations.

Nawroz is not the same as the entire Persian way of doing things Being Persian is more than just celebrating Nawroz. Nawroz is only a single aspect of a broader Persian culture or Parsiwali.

Persian do many things.some of it is in-Islamic just like some part of Pashtunwali is in-Islamic. Pashtuns do Badal and they worship dead Sufi saints shrines.

Persians celebrate Nawroz.

Islam and what Islam stands for and what Islam teaches is separate from both cultures. You can be Persian and Pashtun and love and cherish your culture and tradition and at the same time practice Islam.

Practicing Islam means sometimes abandoning some of your customs and traditions, your habits and even some things you love. That’s all part of submission. You can’t fully submit until you are able to abandon things for the sake of Allah.

So when you are told that Nawroz is Zoroastrian and it is not allowed for Muslims to celebrate it, you can argue left and right and bring forward lame arguments in order justify it. But in reality you are in conflict with yourself.

I don’t take pride in haram and kufr aspects of Pashtunwali. I don’t get offended if someone tells me Pashtuns practice kufr shirk and haram stuff. I know what is fact and what is fiction.

I don’t see why people feel offended when you tell them Nawroz is kufr and shirk. Make up your mind and choose. You can’t practice something that is against Islam and attack and argue with people because they tell you the truth.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Pashtunwali means the Pashtun way of doing things. Pashtuns are people. They’re doing allot of things that are considered pashtunwali and some of it is against sharia law. Pashtunwali as a culture of tradition of an ethnic group encompasses many things. Being a practicing Muslim is in most parts of the Pashtun belt also considered Pashtunwali. Not preying, shaving the beard and drinking alcohol is deemed as below Pashtun standards.

Nawroz is a very specific celebration on a specific time of the year for a specific reason. It is specifically mentioned in Islamic books of law written by scholars who lived in a Persian society. They knew exactly what it was and argued that is haram for Muslims to participate in such celebrations.

Nawroz is not the same as the entire Persian way of doing things Being Persian is more than just celebrating Nawroz. Nawroz is only a single aspect of a broader Persian culture or Parsiwali.

Persian do many things.some of it is in-Islamic just like some part of Pashtunwali is in-Islamic. Pashtuns do Badal and they worship dead Sufi saints shrines.

Persians celebrate Nawroz.

Islam and what Islam stands for and what Islam teaches is separate from both cultures. You can be Persian and Pashtun and love and cherish your culture and tradition and at the same time practice Islam.

Practicing Islam means sometimes abandoning some of your customs and traditions, your habits and even some things you love. That’s all part of submission. You can’t fully submit until you are able to abandon things for the sake of Allah.

So when you are told that Nawroz is Zoroastrian and it is not allowed for Muslims to celebrate it, you can argue left and right and bring forward lame arguments in order justify it. But in reality you are in conflict with yourself.

I don’t take pride in haram and kufr aspects of Pashtunwali. I don’t get offended if someone tells me Pashtuns practice kufr shirk and haram stuff. I know what is fact and what is fiction.

I don’t see why people feel offended when you tell them Nawroz is kufr and shirk. Make up your mind and choose. You can’t practice something that is against Islam and attack and argue with people because they tell you the truth.

This was the most long winded way to argue a double standard I've ever seen ..


I'd like to see the Ulama who condemned Nawroz. And intent, we're splitting hairs here. Affixing Pashtunwali to accomodate Islam doesn't mean the same couldn't have been done for Nawroz. Pashtunwali regardless of what Islamic affixations were done is not based on revelation of the Qur'an or Sunnah. The specific intent is serve the ethical character of Pashtuns, not of Muslims as a whole. So you're making arbitrary lines in the sand here. Regardless of what Islamic attributes are placed on our modern construct of Pashtunwali. If we accept anthropological or historical understanding at all, it predates the arrival of Islam in the region. If Pashtunwali can affix Islam, there's no reason why Nawroz couldnt have abandoned the "problematic" factors when transitioning to the hands of Muslims of these regions.

Perhaps the Ulama you claim condemn Nawroz are condemning a Nawroz which had attributes which no longer exist or are relevant for our Nawroz. So with that in mind, How would their conclusions even be relevant now? Most likely, it wouldn't.

[Firdousi]

Pashtunwali means the Pashtun way of doing things. Pashtuns are people. They’re doing allot of things that are considered pashtunwali and some of it is against sharia law. Pashtunwali as a culture of tradition of an ethnic group encompasses many things. Being a practicing Muslim is in most parts of the Pashtun belt also considered Pashtunwali. Not preying, shaving the beard and drinking alcohol is deemed as below Pashtun standards.

Nawroz is a very specific celebration on a specific time of the year for a specific reason. It is specifically mentioned in Islamic books of law written by scholars who lived in a Persian society. They knew exactly what it was and argued that is haram for Muslims to participate in such celebrations.

Nawroz is not the same as the entire Persian way of doing things Being Persian is more than just celebrating Nawroz. Nawroz is only a single aspect of a broader Persian culture or Parsiwali.

Persian do many things.some of it is in-Islamic just like some part of Pashtunwali is in-Islamic. Pashtuns do Badal and they worship dead Sufi saints shrines.

Persians celebrate Nawroz.

Islam and what Islam stands for and what Islam teaches is separate from both cultures. You can be Persian and Pashtun and love and cherish your culture and tradition and at the same time practice Islam.

Practicing Islam means sometimes abandoning some of your customs and traditions, your habits and even some things you love. That’s all part of submission. You can’t fully submit until you are able to abandon things for the sake of Allah.

So when you are told that Nawroz is Zoroastrian and it is not allowed for Muslims to celebrate it, you can argue left and right and bring forward lame arguments in order justify it. But in reality you are in conflict with yourself.

I don’t take pride in haram and kufr aspects of Pashtunwali. I don’t get offended if someone tells me Pashtuns practice kufr shirk and haram stuff. I know what is fact and what is fiction.

I don’t see why people feel offended when you tell them Nawroz is kufr and shirk. Make up your mind and choose. You can’t practice something that is against Islam and attack and argue with people because they tell you the truth.

You made very good points and I promise I will try to give it a thought. But you guys need really to prove that Nowruz is a anti-islamic practice.

BTW Nowruz is very important for the modern secular Persian identity. Iranians really take it too far. So being Persian right now means celebrating Nowruz just like being Pashtun means following Pashtunwali. The symbolism behind it is the same.

They even call it "eid-e moon" in order to show that its as valid and legit as Islamic eids.

[Akbar]

You made very good points and I promise I will try to give it a thought. But you guys need really to prove that Nowruz is a anti-islamic practice.

BTW Nowruz is very important for the modern secular Persian identity. Iranians really take it too far. So being Persian right now means celebrating Nowruz just like being Pashtun means following Pashtunwali. The symbolism behind it is the same.

They even call it "eid-e moon" in order to show that its as valid and legit as Islamic eids.

You do know that other ethnicities also follow identical way of life as Pashtunwali in Afghanistan. It's termed Afghaniat and it actually encompasses same ideals. For example nang aw namoos,hospitality,ghairat,parda haya,Islamiat,etc.
I have seen tajik s and even hazaras use these terms and uphold these types of ideas. So Pashtunwali or the code is not solely followed by Pashtuns but by other ethnicities in Afghanistan as well and it's termed Afghaniat.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

You know what? Why is whether Pashtunwali is pagan or Nawroz pagan even an issue?

As long as we follow the core values of Islam; we're Muslims, Islam is not based on silly things like whether you say Merry Christmas or eat ucha mewah on Nawroz

It's based on following the pillars, believing in the oneness of Allah(swt) and your ethics, lifestyle and character.

Stop making deen so hard.

[UnknownUser]

It's undeniable cameljockeys pulled a cultural genocide in most pre-Islamic lands upon their invasions. Sadly some people even support this cultural genocide. if it was up to them, all the world would be Arabized. This anti-Noroz movement is nothing more than an cultural genocide.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I don't think it has anything to do with being Arabized; because the same people are attacking Arab cultural traditions which are completely innocuous and apart of their cultural heritage such as their music and dances, based on their hatred for music...what it has to do with is obscurantism and cultural nihilism ....they simply want the world to become vacant and expressionless.

[Akbar]

It's undeniable cameljockeys pulled a cultural genocide in most pre-Islamic lands upon their invasions. Sadly some people even support this cultural genocide. if it was up to them, all the world would be Arabized. This anti-Noroz movement is nothing more than an cultural genocide.

Tone down with the racial slurs.
This got nothing to do with my culture and being Muslim doesn't mean being Arabized. Islam came to demolish these types of practices including those of Arabs.
It is clear from your multiple posts that the support of nowroz come from anti Muslim corners but don't forget Afghanistan is a Muslim nation.

Do you consider chiraghkosh also part of your superior culture?

[khushal]

I don't think it has anything to do with being Arabized; because the same people are attacking Arab cultural traditions which are completely innocuous and apart of their cultural heritage such as their music and dances, based on their hatred for music...what it has to do with is obscurantism and cultural nihilism ....they simply want the world to become vacant and expressionless.

Unknown user is a militant secularist. He knows this, he is just using those jahil people to promote his own immoral agenda.

[khushal]

This was the most long winded way to argue a double standard I've ever seen ..


I'd like to see the Ulama who condemned Nawroz. And intent, we're splitting hairs here. Affixing Pashtunwali to accomodate Islam doesn't mean the same couldn't have been done for Nawroz. Pashtunwali regardless of what Islamic affixations were done is not based on revelation of the Qur'an or Sunnah. The specific intent is serve the ethical character of Pashtuns, not of Muslims as a whole. So you're making arbitrary lines in the sand here. Regardless of what Islamic attributes are placed on our modern construct of Pashtunwali. If we accept anthropological or historical understanding at all, it predates the arrival of Islam in the region. If Pashtunwali can affix Islam, there's no reason why Nawroz couldnt have abandoned the "problematic" factors when transitioning to the hands of Muslims of these regions.

Perhaps the Ulama you claim condemn Nawroz are condemning a Nawroz which had attributes which no longer exist or are relevant for our Nawroz. So with that in mind, How would their conclusions even be relevant now? Most likely, it wouldn't.

While there are many scholars(mostly persian) that have labeled nowroz as inappropriate. Most likely, The persians of their time practiced it in a way that conflicted with Islam.

But the people in our village is doing nothing wrong, nothing immoral.