Promotion of the word 'Pathan' in official sources

[kunatawar]

Why do you Pashtuns obsess over such obscure things anyways? When will you rise intellectually like your Persian/Tajik brethren? So many threads on this forum are so laughable, but its more sad than funny.

Nekrofost started a thread about "execution by golden shower"

Maneatinglizard started a thread about difference between "v" and "w" in Pashtu dialects.

And now this one is discussing the word "Pathan" vs "Pashtun"

I hate to push stereotypes, but don't you ever try to prove the stereotype of Pathans as stupid, non-intellectual people with nothing to contribute of substance wrong?

all of those threads are relevant to us so it makes sense that they are on these forums, go to a philosophy forum or engineering one if you exclusively want to talk about intellectual things

[Elias]

all of those threads are relevant to us so it makes sense that they are on these forums, go to a philosophy forum or engineering one if you exclusively want to talk about intellectual things

He can’t discuss about topics from this fields. The only thing he can do is Taqiyya and licking Arab arses.

[maneatinglizard]

In Dari آ sounds sometimes more like an O in Officer and I've heard Afridis/Khattaks and Waziris pouncing A's the same way sometimes. But this pakistani was unaware of the fact that it's a dialect thing and has nothing to do with being persianized or having farsi accent.

Oh gotcha. The ا in my dialect (Zazai) is closer to the Farsi pronunciation too. The people who speak like that are mostly from the heartland of Pashtunistan, so it's funny to hear someone trying to tie that to Persianization.

On that topic, I've actually seen a video of a Pashtun speaking Pashto with a heavy Iranian accent. I'll try to find it again, but it was pretty strange. Don't know if there's actually a tribe that speaks like that, or if the person had grown up in Iran.

[Sarbani]

Pathan is an Indian word , its very natural for them to use it. Its like word "Angraiz" used by us and Indians for English people who dont use it for themselves. As heavily indianized descendants of Pashtuns in India (who are 100% like any other Indian in the vicinity) call themselves Pathan, so it has never occurred to other Indians that its not a proper word. Even Bacha Khan and co had to use the word Pathan in the mainstream politics of British India.

Punjabis, Sindhis, Hindustani-Mohajirs and Kashmiris of Pakistan also use the term Pathan for us, as they are Indian people. But their case is slightly different than India as proper Pashtuns actually live in Pakistan who some times remind them that Pathan is not the proper word. They could have shown some decency as fellow countrymen to use the proper word Pashtun/Pakhtun but they cant help themselves and insist on using the word Pathan. They cant betray their indian roots and indian culture, they have been using the word Pathan for centuries.

I remember the text book of Urdu grammar of 9-10th class, in which feminine form of Pathan was given as Pathani. Pashtun/Pashtana was absent The word Pathan is so much embedded in Urdu that many Pashtuns of Pakistan automatically start uttering the word Pathan whenever they switch to Urdu.

I personally have 0 issue with Indics calling us Pathans in their own language, but it seems like they are teaching Westerners to use Pathan in English as well, especially for PK Pathans maybe cause they wanna distinguish us from Afghans. I posted a link and in the comments section, there were Pakistani Indics arguing that the word Pathan was a good choice to use in reference to PK Pashtuns. My main issue is being just called Pathan in English/non-Indic languages.

[Sarbani]

Why do you Pashtuns obsess over such obscure things anyways? When will you rise intellectually like your Persian/Tajik brethren? So many threads on this forum are so laughable, but its more sad than funny.

Nekrofost started a thread about "execution by golden shower"

Maneatinglizard started a thread about difference between "v" and "w" in Pashtu dialects.

And now this one is discussing the word "Pathan" vs "Pashtun"

I hate to push stereotypes, but don't you ever try to prove the stereotype of Pathans as stupid, non-intellectual people with nothing to contribute of substance wrong?

It's a Pashtun forum. We are allowed to discuss stuff that aren't super important issues as long as they are relevant to Pashtuns. If you are so bothered about us doing that, then maybe this isn't the forum for you. You are here as a guest. Don't tell us Pashtuns what we should or shouldn't discuss. We don't like promoting the term specifically for PK Pashtuns as it is a form of division among Pashtuns. We would also be more comfortable being known by our endonym in English and not an Indian loanword. You seem to be proving the point of the other poster regarding Paki Indics that get all bothered over Pashtuns discussing their culture/identity.

[maneatinglizard]

Why is it a big deal? You guys call me Indian instead of Hindustani or Desi. Is it really worth the fuss to wrestle over such minutiae. ?

Indian is the English equivalent of Hindustani. We're speaking English, so why would we use Hindustani? Do you call Germany "Deutschland" in English? Do you call Japan "Nihon" or "Nippon"?

The annoying thing about Pathan is that the English word for Pashtun is just that. Pashtun. There's no reason for English speakers to use an Indic exonym when the endonym is well known, as is the accepted exonym "Afghan."

Why do you Pashtuns obsess over such obscure things anyways?

Why do you obsess over the Hazara so much that you want to "trade" them for the Kalash?

When will you rise intellectually like your Persian/Tajik brethren? So many threads on this forum are so laughable, but its more sad than funny.

It's funny that you still think we care about your opinion, but needless to say, we don't. What's really sad, though, is a Desi making over 11 posts a day on a Pashtun forum that has no use for him other than as a punching bag.

You know what else is sad? Your pathetic attempts at converting us to your Qadiani religion.

I hate to push stereotypes, but don't you ever try to prove the stereotype of Pathans as stupid, non-intellectual people with nothing to contribute of substance wrong?

What happened to not being a racist? Did we break you that hard? At least Karachi didn't lose it as quickly as you.

These guys are hilarious. They all come here acting high and mighty, but within weeks they're foaming at the mouth, desperate to retaliate against us in any way possible. All that posturing as a great Muslim didn't mean much, did it? Then again, who expected much Islam from a Qadiani? lol

[maneatinglizard]

all of those threads are relevant to us so it makes sense that they are on these forums, go to a philosophy forum or engineering one if you exclusively want to talk about intellectual things

Philosophy forums are full of non-intellectual discussion too. The only kind of people who think forums are only meant for deep, intellectual debates, are the kind that aren't fit for actual intellectual discourse.

He can’t discuss about topics from this fields. The only thing he can do is Taqiyya and licking Arab arses.

I'm sure he could google any topic for five whole minutes and develop an opinion in which he has total confidence.

[ذو الفقار]

The annoying thing about Pathan is that the English word for Pashtun is just that. Pashtun. There's no reason for English speakers to use an Indic exonym when the endonym is well known, as is the accepted exonym "Afghan."

It's only annoying if you think it's a big deal, which it obviously isn't. You're obsession with Pashtuns as an ethnic group is indicative of your small mind.

Why do you obsess over the Hazara so much that you want to "trade" them for the Kalash?

Apparently satire is lost on you.

What happened to not being a racist?

I'm not racist at all. Critique of other cultures has nothing to do with racism. It's motivation isn't malicious either, but meant to uplift people to a higher level of thinking. If you've read my critique of the culture I supposedly belong to "Indian" you would never think to call me a racist.

[salman47]

Why do you Pashtuns obsess over such obscure things anyways? When will you rise intellectually like your Persian/Tajik brethren? So many threads on this forum are so laughable, but its more sad than funny.

Nekrofost started a thread about "execution by golden shower"

Maneatinglizard started a thread about difference between "v" and "w" in Pashtu dialects.

And now this one is discussing the word "Pathan" vs "Pashtun"

I hate to push stereotypes, but don't you ever try to prove the stereotype of Pathans as stupid, non-intellectual people with nothing to contribute of substance wrong?

Anyone else kinda bothered with seeing the word Pathan commonly in Western sources by Indics, especially regarding genetics? I feel like it's Indics promoting the word since they want words from their language to have higher agency.

They always use the word 'Pathan' in genetics whenever talking about the genetics of Pashtuns, especially those from Pakistan. We call ourselves Pashtuns not "Pathans". It's pretty disrespectful to use their name to refer to us when it's a name used by Indians exclusively. They also often use it as a means of division (Pashtun = Afghan Pashtun, Pathan = Pak Pashtun).

Here are two quick examples:





Genetics is where I mainly see it, and I see it consistently used there without any question. I have yet to see a genetic data sheet referring to Pashtuns from PK as 'Pashtun'. But I have also seen the word "Pathan" used in other sources as well in addition to those regarding genetics. It seems like Westerners are treating it as an equally acceptable alternative to 'Pashtun'. They also think it is the technically correct word to use when they want to specify Pashtuns from PK for some weird reason.

Now, I don't know for sure if Indics are the ones promoting this. But I mostly just see them using the word "Pathan" when talking about Pashtuns online, even when talking to Westerners. They are the only source that word could be coming from. I also feel like lately it has been becoming more common. I don't mind Indics calling us that, but I do not like it becoming our standard name in the West. And I especially don't like it being used exclusively in reference to Pashtuns from PK. Regardless of who's promoting it, it's still bothersome. If they could at the very least just stop using it in literally every single data sheet regarding genetics (since that's where it's constantly promoted), that'd be great.

I think I know where it comes from. Apparently almost all of the Genetic data for Pashtun comes from one study done many years(or decades) ago.
The sample was a few 100 'Pathans' from India.
I don't know why but they paste the same result everywhere.

[salman47]

Why is it a big deal? You guys call me Indian instead of Hindustani or Desi. Is it really worth the fuss to wrestle over such minutiae. ?

Ohh so you don't know why we call you Indian!...
It is because all of South Asia, right before Religious Division was known as India(or British India). Of course named by the Britons. That's why.

[salman47]

Why do you Pashtuns obsess over such obscure things anyways? When will you rise intellectually like your Persian/Tajik brethren? So many threads on this forum are so laughable, but its more sad than funny.

Nekrofost started a thread about "execution by golden shower"

Maneatinglizard started a thread about difference between "v" and "w" in Pashtu dialects.

And now this one is discussing the word "Pathan" vs "Pashtun"

I hate to push stereotypes, but don't you ever try to prove the stereotype of Pathans as stupid, non-intellectual people with nothing to contribute of substance wrong?

Really you don't know how this Website works and why it was made.

[Samandri]

Why is it a big deal? You guys call me Indian instead of Hindustani or Desi. Is it really worth the fuss to wrestle over such minutiae. ?

Yet you are reading every "minutiae" on this forum, and commenting on most of the "minutiae". Dont you have better thing to do with your time as you yourself feel irrelevant on the forum which is about Pashtuniyat?

Hindustanis have owned the words India and Indian and they use it identify themselves. Indian is as much proper as Hindustani. On the other hand we dont call ourselves Pathan and dont call our land Pathankhwa or Pathanistan. If some farter from Lahore or Multan call us Pathan then its not a big deal (as i have already explained its natural to them them due to their indic background) but Sarbani is talking about its usage in academic sources where usage of improper and crude name of a nation is not expected. Indics are rather promoting it, and they hope to achieve division between Pashtuns , just like their British predecessors/masters who promoted the word Pathan for exactly the same reasons.

[ذو الفقار]

just like their British predecessors/masters who promoted the word Pathan for exactly the same reasons.

Say what you want about the British, but they ended up improving your situation. Imagine if you guys were part of Afghanistan. Majority of the Pakhtuns in Pakistan don't want to be part of Afghanistan. The flow of refugees is from west to east for a reason.

[Samandri]

Say what you want about the British, but they ended up improving your situation..

They actually ended up improving your situation.......you would have been getting bullied by Hindus if it was not for British. Like most of the Muslims of today's India, you would have been living in filthy slums and doing menial jobs while living in the constant fear of Hindus.

[ذو الفقار]

They actually ended up improving your situation.......you would have been getting bullied by Hindus if it was not for British. Like most of the Muslims of today's India, you would have been living in filthy slums and doing menial jobs.

Be honest, which area is more developed? East or West of Durand Line? The Indian subcontinent has many institutions and is far more developed because of British colonial presence, unlike Afghanistan.

The blunder is on your Afghan kings. They should never have resisted the British. It is now proven that wherever the British ruled is much better than wherever there was stronger Russian influence and Soviet rule.

And Indian Muslims, no matter how discriminated and bad they are treated, still have a far superior standard of living than the average Afghan