Promotion of the word 'Pathan' in official sources

[Sarbani]

Anyone else kinda bothered with seeing the word Pathan commonly in Western sources by Indics, especially regarding genetics? I feel like it's Indics promoting the word since they want words from their language to have higher agency.

They always use the word 'Pathan' in genetics whenever talking about the genetics of Pashtuns, especially those from Pakistan. We call ourselves Pashtuns not "Pathans". It's pretty disrespectful to use their name to refer to us when it's a name used by Indians exclusively. They also often use it as a means of division (Pashtun = Afghan Pashtun, Pathan = Pak Pashtun).

Here are two quick examples:





Genetics is where I mainly see it, and I see it consistently used there without any question. I have yet to see a genetic data sheet referring to Pashtuns from PK as 'Pashtun'. But I have also seen the word "Pathan" used in other sources as well in addition to those regarding genetics. It seems like Westerners are treating it as an equally acceptable alternative to 'Pashtun'. They also think it is the technically correct word to use when they want to specify Pashtuns from PK for some weird reason.

Now, I don't know for sure if Indics are the ones promoting this. But I mostly just see them using the word "Pathan" when talking about Pashtuns online, even when talking to Westerners. They are the only source that word could be coming from. I also feel like lately it has been becoming more common. I don't mind Indics calling us that, but I do not like it becoming our standard name in the West. And I especially don't like it being used exclusively in reference to Pashtuns from PK. Regardless of who's promoting it, it's still bothersome. If they could at the very least just stop using it in literally every single data sheet regarding genetics (since that's where it's constantly promoted), that'd be great.

[Sarbani]

See the comments here: HarappaWorld HRP375-HRP384 | Harappa Ancestry Project

The usage of the word "Pathan" was called into question by a Pashtun user and he was swarmed by Indics (especially those from Pakistan) trying to argue in favor of using the word "Pathan". What a pathetic people Indics are.

[Sarbani]

See the comments here: HarappaWorld HRP375-HRP384 | Harappa Ancestry Project

The usage of the word "Pathan" was called into question by a Pashtun user and he was swarmed by Indics (especially those from Pakistan) trying to argue in favor of using the word "Pathan". What a pathetic people Indics are.

Also, I am loling at the comments of this one Poonjab user named Paul Gill:

What do you look like Indo-Populations? What ethnic group you belong to? I have among my relatives that you can't distinguish from North Europeans. And what is a Brahmin, if I may ask you that?

Punjabi on the average have greater European component than other Indians. Who are you, Indo-populations, identify yourself please.

You mentioned that even Punjabi Brahmins are not good looking. I will give you a Jatt from my own family with blue eyes and white skin 6' 4" tall, would that suffice?

For some reason I don't get an option download it here. Here is a link where you can find all kind of Indians with light eyes.

Jatts were not part of Sikhism in the beginning. As a matter of fact they never cared much about any religion. They joined Sikhism only later on when it took a form of military and that was because of their warlike nature. Military success came to Sikhs only because of Jatts and if they were not part of it your ancestors were probably sold in the flesh market of Gazani long ago. So be thankful to the Jatts. Who you think protects Indian borders and that also with inferior equipment?

Jatts lived in villages, hardly touched by these invasions and you city dwellers bore the brunt of it and got all those gene mixing.

Pukhtun, you moron, I asked you where you live, instead of meeting the people personally you make baseless claims.
Again, I posted no picture, I only posted a link with four Punjabi Sikh guys in there, and I bet you, your eyes are darker than them and so is your skin compared to at least one of the kids.
All Pashtun have Mongoloid admixture. What is your and this girl's Kit #s at 23andMe, FTDNA, Harrapa Project and Gedmatch?

Pakhtun, you are a hopeless case, you want to be white when you are not and you refuse to admit that some Indians also look like white people even when they do.
I only gave posted a link which had Indian people who have light eyes. Now you tell me that it is only one, can you show me even one Pashtun in the Post # 14 and 20 of the link I gave you about Pashtuns? .100% of those Pashtune show Mongoloid and Veddoid admixture.

Lmaooooo!!! I know this thread wasn't about the typical white-worshipping mentality found among Indics, but this thread I linked had this gold and I couldn't resist lol.

[maneatinglizard]

To be honest, I've always had doubts about the "Pathans" of these genetic studies being actual Pashtuns. They claimed to have collected the samples from Kurram, but when was the last time that area was safe enough to go around collecting DNA samples? There's also the fact that some of the charts show them as being pretty distinct from Afghan Pashtuns (and closer to Indics), which doesn't really make any sense.

Also, I am loling at the comments of this one Poonjab user named Paul Gill:

















Lmaooooo!!! I know this thread wasn't about the typical white-worshipping mentality found among Indics, but this thread I linked had this gold and I couldn't resist lol.

Paul Gill is a typical self-hating white wannabe. I've seen his posts on multiple genetics sites and it's always the same brand of confused Hindu nationalism combined with self-loathing white worship.

[Sarbani]

To be honest, I've always had doubts about the "Pathans" of these genetic studies being actual Pashtuns. They claimed to have collected the samples from Kurram, but when was the last time that area was safe enough to go around collecting DNA samples? There's also the fact that some of the charts show them as being pretty distinct from Afghan Pashtuns (and closer to Indics), which doesn't really make any sense.

I wasn't aware they were from Kurram. Some might be but I doubt most were. I had always assumed most were from Peshawar, and most Peshawaris tend to be a bit mixed. But I don't think it's impossible for some Pashtuns to be closer to Jatts than Afghan Pashtuns. Ethnicity is largely a social construct and geography plays a major role in determining genetics. A Pashtun from right on the border of Punjab being closer to a Jatt right on the border of KPK than to a Pashtun from Kandahar makes a bit of sense. I don't think Pashtuns from northern Afg, southern Afghanistan, FATA, KPK, and northern Balochistan will all have identical genetics, but they should be part of the same continuum (which includes Jatts and Tajiks as well).

Paul Gill is a typical self-hating white wannabe. I've seen his posts on multiple genetics sites and it's always the same brand of confused Hindu nationalism combined with self-loathing white worship.

Yeah, he was even a member here before for a while. Pure cringe. But very typical for a South Asian.

[kunatawar]

the good thing is that american academia mostly uses the word pashtun but british or indian sources use pathan (especially if its in reference to an old event during the colonial times). The fact of the matter is that indians for the most part dont even know what a pashtun is, they only know pathan and on top of that indians dont really have a concept of ethnicity the way westerners do they mostly focus on caste and location. pathan to alot of them is just a muslim caste from the northwest. indians will keep using pathan because thats all they know and their perception of a pashtun is skewed anyway, and british will keep using it because majority of their old sources from the raj refer to us by the indian term pathan.

on a side note many online punjabis (usually pakistani) and sometimes karachiwalas get triggered at the mention pashtuns language/culture/politics. it might be because it makes them feel like average joes and also since our identity is tied to afghanistan/central asia and not completely indian/pak focused so their inner nationalist goes into overdrive mode.

[Elias]

I’ve come across Pakistani nationalists who said Pakhtun = pak Pashtun and Pashtun = afg Pashtun.
Once a Pakistani said in a condescending way that afghan Pashtuns speak with a farsi accent (I think he meant logar, wardak dialect which pronounce ɒ instead of a) not knowing that many khattaks, afridis, waziris and mahsuds also say ɒ instead of a.
Their aim is to break the connection or larger the gap between pak/afg pashtuns and make them a part of Indian culture just to compensate the femininity in their history, culture and genetics.

[maneatinglizard]

I wasn't aware they were from Kurram. Some might be but I doubt most were. I had always assumed most were from Peshawar, and most Peshawaris tend to be a bit mixed. But I don't think it's impossible for some Pashtuns to be closer to Jatts than Afghan Pashtuns. Ethnicity is largely a social construct and geography plays a major role in determining genetics. A Pashtun from right on the border of Punjab being closer to a Jatt right on the border of KPK than to a Pashtun from Kandahar makes a bit of sense. I don't think Pashtuns from northern Afg, southern Afghanistan, FATA, KPK, and northern Balochistan will all have identical genetics, but they should be part of the same continuum (which includes Jatts and Tajiks as well).

Supposedly they were taken from the Bangash areas of Kurram. As for Pashtun genetics falling upon a geographic continuum, I think you're right to a degree. However, because Pashtuns have historically been endogamic, I don't think the difference would be huge.

And these DNA results definitely seem strange to me if they were actually taken from the Pashtunistan heartland. I'm from right over the border, on the Afghan side of Spin Ghar; I wonder how close I'd match with these samples.

Yeah, he was even a member here before for a while. Pure cringe. But very typical for a South Asian.

What was his username? Is getting rejected by Pashtuns some kind of rite of passage for these guys? I don't know why they feel the need to come here lol.

on a side note many online punjabis (usually pakistani) and sometimes karachiwalas get triggered at the mention pashtuns language/culture/politics. it might be because it makes them feel like average joes and also since our identity is tied to afghanistan/central asia and not completely indian/pak focused so their inner nationalist goes into overdrive mode.

Pakistani identity is extremely fragile, so hardcore nationalists get triggered over anything that they see as a threat to the preservation of that identity.

Same reason these losers have such an inconsistent attitude towards Islam. They all want alcohol, clubbing, etc. to come back to Pakistan, and cheer on when their women wear short skirts, but constantly talk about how Pakistan is the country for Muslims, and how it's the vanguard of Islam. Islam is the only thing holding Pakistan together, so they can't outright abandon it, but at the same time they wish they could live like kuffar openly.

I’ve come across Pakistani nationalists who said Pakhtun = pak Pashtun and Pashtun = afg Pashtun.
Once a Pakistani said in a condescending way that afghan Pashtuns speak with a farsi accent (I think he meant logar, wardak dialect which pronounce ɒ instead of a) not knowing that many khattaks, afridis, waziris and mahsuds also say ɒ instead of a.
Their aim is to break the connection or larger the gap between pak/afg pashtuns and make them a part of Indian culture just to compensate the femininity in their history, culture and genetics.

What do you mean by "ɒ" vs "a"?

[Samandri]

Pathan is an Indian word , its very natural for them to use it. Its like word "Angraiz" used by us and Indians for English people who dont use it for themselves. As heavily indianized descendants of Pashtuns in India (who are 100% like any other Indian in the vicinity) call themselves Pathan, so it has never occurred to other Indians that its not a proper word. Even Bacha Khan and co had to use the word Pathan in the mainstream politics of British India.

Punjabis, Sindhis, Hindustani-Mohajirs and Kashmiris of Pakistan also use the term Pathan for us, as they are Indian people. But their case is slightly different than India as proper Pashtuns actually live in Pakistan who some times remind them that Pathan is not the proper word. They could have shown some decency as fellow countrymen to use the proper word Pashtun/Pakhtun but they cant help themselves and insist on using the word Pathan. They cant betray their indian roots and indian culture, they have been using the word Pathan for centuries.

I remember the text book of Urdu grammar of 9-10th class, in which feminine form of Pathan was given as Pathani. Pashtun/Pashtana was absent The word Pathan is so much embedded in Urdu that many Pashtuns of Pakistan automatically start uttering the word Pathan whenever they switch to Urdu.

[ذو الفقار]

Pathan is an Indian word , its very natural for them to use it. Its like word "Angraiz" used by us and Indians for English people who dont use it for themselves. As heavily indianized descendants of Pashtuns in India (who are 100% like any other Indian in the vicinity) call themselves Pathan, so it has never occurred to other Indians that its not a proper word. Even Bacha Khan and co had to use the word Pathan in the mainstream politics of British India.

Punjabis, Sindhis, Hindustani-Mohajirs and Kashmiris of Pakistan also use the term Pathan for us, as they are Indian people. But their case is slightly different than India as proper Pashtuns actually live in Pakistan who some times remind them that Pathan is not the proper word. They could have shown some decency as fellow countrymen to use the proper word Pashtun/Pakhtun but they cant help themselves and insist on using the word Pathan. They cant betray their indian roots and indian culture, they have been using the word Pathan for centuries.

I remember the text book of Urdu grammar of 9-10th class, in which feminine form of Pathan was given as Pathani. Pashtun/Pashtana was absent The word Pathan is so much embedded in Urdu that many Pashtuns of Pakistan automatically start uttering the word Pathan whenever they switch to Urdu.

Why is it a big deal? You guys call me Indian instead of Hindustani or Desi. Is it really worth the fuss to wrestle over such minutiae. ?

[Elias]

What do you mean by "ɒ" vs "a"?

In Dari آ sounds sometimes more like an O in Officer and I've heard Afridis/Khattaks and Waziris pouncing A's the same way sometimes. But this pakistani was unaware of the fact that it's a dialect thing and has nothing to do with being persianized or having farsi accent.

[Elias]

Why is it a big deal? You guys call me Indian instead of Hindustani or Desi. Is it really worth the fuss to wrestle over such minutiae. ?

If you watch Afghan news they call citizens of India or someone with Indian origin Hindi/Hindustani.

[Elias]

The word pathan has become really ridiculous. One more reason to get rid of it.
if even now Hindus can claim pathan ancestry...What's next? A Papua New Guinean with pathan ancestry?
I am Pathan-Anil Kapoor is Having a Plan to Visit Peshawar - YouTube
My Father travelled in the 60's to Peshawar. Can I say I'm a pathan? ;D

[ذو الفقار]

If you watch Afghan news they call citizens of India or someone with Indian origin Hindi/Hindustani.

Why do you Pashtuns obsess over such obscure things anyways? When will you rise intellectually like your Persian/Tajik brethren? So many threads on this forum are so laughable, but its more sad than funny.

Nekrofost started a thread about "execution by golden shower"

Maneatinglizard started a thread about difference between "v" and "w" in Pashtu dialects.

And now this one is discussing the word "Pathan" vs "Pashtun"

I hate to push stereotypes, but don't you ever try to prove the stereotype of Pathans as stupid, non-intellectual people with nothing to contribute of substance wrong?

[Elias]

Why do you Pashtuns obsess over such obscure things anyways?

It’s PASHTUNforums.com

When will you rise intellectually like your Persian/Tajik brethren?

I’m a Tajik.
Have you ever heard about Khushal Khan, Al Afghani, Rahman baba, Ghani Khan, Kabir Stori and more?
But let’s talk about yourself. You got beaten intellectually up by many users of this forum.

So many threads on this forum are so laughable, but its more sad than funny.

Nekrofost started a thread about "execution by golden shower"

Maneatinglizard started a thread about difference between "v" and "w" in Pashtu dialects.

And now this one is discussing the word "Pathan" vs "Pashtun"

It’s PASHTUNforums.com

I hate to push stereotypes, but don't you ever try to prove the stereotype of Pathans as stupid, non-intellectual people with nothing to contribute of substance wrong?

These stereotypes exists just in the Indic universum and I think Pashtuns care less about an Indics opinion.
It’s only Indics that care about others opinion...just visit quora and convince yourself lol.