Pashtunistan/Loy Afghanistan vs Loyalism to Pakistan ? Reasons for and against.

[salman47]

HUA.

I find Arabs only come in two types. Adorable and respectable or complete knobs. A lot of Arabs can be very arrogant. My father (may Allah bless him)and uncle had an altercation with an Egyptian Arab once in our shop in the U.K.- decades before I was born. It was a disagreement about some work he had done for us in the shop. An argument ensued in which he started calling my uncle and dad Indians- they told him he was insulting them but he wouldn't stop- so my uncle smashed his head in with a stick and my dad tried to stab him-lol.

The fellow as my uncle puts it was a complete and utter arsehole and even came back to the shop a few days later to apologize. To this day my uncle who is now also senile hates Arabs.

I've known a lot of Arabs and I find Algerians, Moroccans and Iraqis especially to be nice people.

The Algerians, Moroccans and Iraqis are nice because 1) They are far from real Arabs, 2) Historically/Genetically not Arabs..

UPDATE from the same Syrian Friend: 90% of Iranis are originally Arabs.
Can't stop him from bull****ting because he becomes a wall as I said earlier.

[kanishka]

The Indic “Pathans” have falsely created a new identity. “Pathan” is the term non Pashtuns of Indian origin would give to any Pashto speaker. This was adopted by the British.

Nowadays they will argue that Pathan and Pashtun is different. They’ve made some kind of “caste”. So the descendants (supposed) and maybe genuine (who knows) of Pashtuns who settled in India and places like that lose all their Pashto but want to keep the name have slowly evolved and a new race is created. However it becomes a bit complicated when the original ones ( Pashto speakers) still exist in huge numbers and will also still be called “Pathan”.

For people that don’t know- Pathan and Pashtun is the same thing. Pathan is simply the Indic name given to Pashto speakers. However you will find that Indic “Pathans” now claim it as a seperate race-hell even if their ancestors were Hindkyan-they will still call themselves “Pathan”. They however are so far from original Pashtuns nowadays in terms of culture that Pashtuns that know anything about themselves wont acknowledge them as Pashtun or Pathan.

The only similarity I can draw is with Berbers. Berbers don’t call themselves Berbers- that’s what outsiders call them-in their own language they are known as “Amazigh”.

the main issue is afghan pashtuns say to outsiders as "Pashtun" while Pakistani Pashtuns say to outsiders as "Pathan". I dont have a problem if afghans use it just as often , but they cant cause they dont have the "t*" sound (t with a breath), it's not in English either, but british probably pronounced it as Patan ....


about berbers. You know Libyan used to mean berbers but its definition got chnged to just the country

similar to how Afghan's definition got changed from pashtuns to , you know now.

[toughpashtun]

Not to mention what he's saying is largely garbage.

There is no significant genetic difference between Pashtuns on either side of the border (how could there be? The border has been around for barely 100 years, and has been ignored for basically its entire existence). Multiple genetic studies have shown this. The few outliers with significant Indian ancestry are likely either Indics living in KP who passed themselves off as Pashtuns to the collectors, or simply people with recent, maternal Indian heritage.

I agree with you on that one. It makes no sense to say that the 120 year old border has caused genetic differences between people living on both sides.

[maneatinglizard]

The Algerians, Moroccans and Iraqis are nice because 1) They are far from real Arabs, 2) Historically/Genetically not Arabs..

UPDATE from the same Syrian Friend: 90% of Iranis are originally Arabs.
Can't stop him from bull****ting because he becomes a wall as I said earlier.

You need better friends lol.

Though a lot of Iranians probably were originally Semitic people who were Persianized. Not Arabs, since Arabs don't originate in Iran, and definitely not 90% of them, but the Persians have had a long history with various Semitic peoples (which I think is why a lot of them look slightly more Arab than Pashtuns/Tajiks).

[Charsi Malang]

the main issue is afghan pashtuns say to outsiders as "Pashtun" while Pakistani Pashtuns say to outsiders as "Pathan". I dont have a problem if afghans use it just as often , but they cant cause they dont have the "t*" sound (t with a breath), it's not in English either, but british probably pronounced it as Patan ....


about berbers. You know Libyan used to mean berbers but its definition got chnged to just the country

similar to how Afghan's definition got changed from pashtuns to , you know now.

The term “Pathan” was up until recently more well known in literature and media so and and so forth. Some people believe it’s a derogatory term-i’m not sure of that. A lot of Desis seem to love it a lot which is why a lot of them claim it for themselves

Thankfully, the term “Pashtun” has now made it to the surface and you will hear it in the news so and so forth. A lot of outsiders are. Is realising that Pashtuns call themselves “Pashtuns/Pakhtuns” in their own language.

[Ambatin]

No one really cares about DNA my friend. It means diddly squat in the grand scheme of things. The truth is if we were all DNA tested then we ourselves don’t know what we’ll find.

it matters, if you are into racial purity. the OP was talking about racial purity. Pashtuns as a whole incline towards South Asians, the Paki ones even more 20-40% is very high. That's Obama mulatto level.

[Charsi Malang]

it matters, if you are into racial purity. the OP was talking about racial purity. Pashtuns as a whole incline towards South Asians, the Paki ones even more 20-40% is very high. That's Obama mulatto level.

Racial “purity” is a futile enterprise. There are hardly any “pure” races. What possible good does it achieve in the real world?

Pashtuns are very different from South Asians- even a blind person can see that. Everything about them is totally different.

[toughpashtun]

The term “Pathan” was up until recently more well known in literature and media so and and so forth. Some people believe it’s a derogatory term-i’m not sure of that. A lot of Desis seem to love it a lot which is why a lot of them claim it for themselves

Thankfully, the term “Pashtun” has now made it to the surface and you will hear it in the news so and so forth. A lot of outsiders are. Is realising that Pashtuns call themselves “Pashtuns/Pakhtuns” in their own language.

The British would refer to Pashtuns as Pathans.Historically the Indians would too.
Since British influence existed in Pakistan too , so the educated Pashtuns would refer to themselves as Pathans when talking to non-Pashtuns.
Things changed with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.The American media became active and when it would refer to us , they would call us Pashtun.
Then when the Americans launched their war in Afghanistan in 2001 , again they refer to us as Pashtuns.
So much so that even Urdu TV channels use Pashtun or Pakhtun instead of Pathan.

[salman47]

You need better friends lol.

Though a lot of Iranians probably were originally Semitic people who were Persianized. Not Arabs, since Arabs don't originate in Iran, and definitely not 90% of them, but the Persians have had a long history with various Semitic peoples (which I think is why a lot of them look slightly more Arab than Pashtuns/Tajiks).

Lol, it's just a small issue. It never comes up unless we talk about our people, at which point I say nothing(not good at speaking).
Nor bas kha nezhde margari yu!(dunno how to translate 'nor' in English).

[Charsi Malang]

The British would refer to Pashtuns as Pathans.Historically the Indians would too.
Since British influence existed in Pakistan too , so the educated Pashtuns would refer to themselves as Pathans when talking to non-Pashtuns.
Things changed with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.The American media became active and when it would refer to us , they would call us Pashtun.
Then when the Americans launched their war in Afghanistan in 2001 , again they refer to us as Pashtuns.
So much so that even Urdu TV channels use Pashtun or Pakhtun instead of Pathan.

Absolutely correct. Some Indics still aren’t familiar with Pashtun/Pashtun and continue to use the term “Pathan”, which I personally don’t see as derogatory for they probably can’t pronounce Pashtun properly- who knows. A lot of them, when they say Pashtun/Pakhtun, they normally drag out the “un” part......Pakhtooooooon. They definitely wouldn’t be able to pronounce the plural of these two terms properly.

Nice to see some of us on here are singing from the same hymn sheet. Right on brothers!

[Charsi Malang]

I agree with you about everything except the removal of Urdu. Surely there needs to be a common language.
Urdu itself traces back to Ghaznavid Dari, i.e Language of the Lashkar where Dari was the most commonly spoken language. It most probably started off as an Iranic language before being influenced by indo-aryan dialects, but it is very Afghan (Ghazni) in origin imo.

Urdu did not start off as an Iranic language but was based around the languages spoken around Delhi. A heavy mix of Farsi, Arabic, Pashto, and some Turkish words have given rise to Urdu. The common root is Hindustani, of which there were probably a few variants including languages like “Khari boil” and a few others.

[Elias]

I agree with you about everything except the removal of Urdu. Surely there needs to be a common language.
Urdu itself traces back to Ghaznavid Dari, i.e Language of the Lashkar where Dari was the most commonly spoken language. It most probably started off as an Iranic language before being influenced by indo-aryan dialects, but it is very Afghan (Ghazni) in origin imo.

Have you ever analyzed/compared the grammar and phonetic of Dari and Urdu? If you do that you’ll realize that Urdu definitely can’t trace back to Dari.

And an example for you to show how ridiculous this argumentation is: Dari-e-darbari/Dari has English loan words and Farsi has French loan words so by your logic Dari traces itself back to English and Farsi to French?

By the way nice attempt linking yourself NOW to Ghaznavi.

Your buddy zulfikar is transsectarian and you seem to be transcultural.

[Azmal]

Lol you must have got this cancer of denial from that tajerk guy. Btw Who would listen to the opinion of a person, who can't tell a Pashtun from Indian, on the subject of which language is what and what not. All tajerks/parSPANs are no better than the indians that you make fun of. They all live in a constant delusional state just like those Indians. Both are ugly, backstabbing, ungrateful lot. They may be different from each on the outside but have got the same stinky rotten insides.
There's no such thing as Afghan 'ethnicities'. Afghan itself is an ethnicity. Dunno whether it's the denseness of your minds or the 'weakness' of your persian that's not letting you comprehend such a simple fact. If you'd have learned just a lil bit of Pashto from your Pashto course book you wouldn't have made such a mistake and made a total cake of yourself as you did here. Nobody is Pashtunising Afghanistan. It's hands down already a Pushtunized country. Even The name AFGHANistan says it all.
No language competes with other languages. What an irrational stupid thing to say. Where did you get such nonsensical notion of competition from? From persian make-believe world?
In my entire life i have never seen a SINGLE Pashtun speak persian as first language neither from Afghanistan (deny all you want pashto is spoken in Afghanistan by the indeginious people of the country)nor from Pakistan. So shove your lies down your lying throat. No one's going to believe a single word from a muttonhead.
Trust me, all the proud persian people from Afghanistan when come to Quetta, Peshawer, Karachi and Islamabad they resort to speaking Pashto and forget all about the so called prestigious Persian. Cuz not a single person here speaks Persian and that's a fact. If you want to get education and medical treatment from Pakistan learn some Pashto and how to respect Pashto. Because it's only for the sake of Pashtuns Pakistan is tolerating you people here. I wonder why they don't prefer Tajikistan and Iran over Pakistan when it comes to education and medical treatment?

The fact is a lot of Pashtun speak Dari as first language, not because it is superior but simply because living in urban area of Kabul, Herat, Mazar they had to adopt. The way a lot of Indko, Hazara, Tajiks and even Nuristani are speaking Pashto as first language.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwc8pI2TKNM


Zahir Shah, Doud Khan and...were all Dari speakers but true nationalist Afghans.

As for as cloths and custom it is share culture of region, at the end both Tajik, Pashtons, Pamiri, Yaqubi are eastern Aryan(hate the world Iranic) people even when Tajiks have adopted the language of Fars.

[Azmal]

Pakistani Pashtuns are more mixed Indians than the ones in Afghanistan. Avarage Pathans Show 20-40% Indian on DNA samples.

Post the study!

I see a lot of Pathans trying to makeup stuff to justify their servitude to Punjos. There is absolutely no racial/genetic diff between Pashtons. Even with Tajik of Afghanistan we share genes.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0034288

[Azmal]

your forum is almost alive dude, and it's mostly because these indics, with skin complexion issues and some weird obession with lightskinned races/maybe a desperation for race mixing, come here to gain approval.

I don't think your approval would make his life any different. Maybe for the Indics here it's a different matter, since most of them are desperate to race mix with basically anyone lighter than them. They have a weird fetish for Pashtuns, Kalash, etc.

How are flat Head FerDawoos and you are any diff?