Pakistan Census 2017 (pashtun Population)

[Razor]

^^

Reaching new spastic heights.


All I need to know is that you are so insecure and pathetic that you cannot even accept your Indian identity on an anonymous forum. Now that must be ****ing embarrassing.

Dravidians belong in South India, no matter how much you are going to shill for them.

[Friends of Baloch]

^^

Reaching new spastic heights.


All I need to know is that you are so insecure and pathetic that you cannot even accept your Indian identity on an anonymous forum. Now that must be ****ing embarrassing.

Dravidians belong in South India, no matter how much you are going to shill for them.

Lol, this fool of a Dravidian paki has been utterly broken and now has his head firmly hidden under his pillow, just like all of the other insecure Dravidian paki weaklings that have come here before him with their Indian inferiority complex and silly fairy tales.

You've failed to deceive anyone here with your paki fictions and lies and have instead been b!tch slapped hard by reality.

Now go and chew on some spiced up curry onions and blow a fire ball out of your brown hole like a typical paki Dravidian.

Your "Mughal" fairy tale is now over.

[Razor]

Lol, this fool of a Dravidian paki has been utterly broken and now has his head firmly hidden under his pillow, just like all of the other insecure Dravidian paki weaklings that have come here before him with their Indian inferiority complex and silly fairy tales.

You've failed to deceive anyone here with your paki fictions and lies and have instead been b!tch slapped hard by reality.

Now go and chew on some spiced up curry onions and blow a fire ball out of your brown hole like a typical paki Dravidian.

Your "Mughal" fairy tale is now over.

Avoiding the question of your own ethnicity. Only a diehard dravidian would shill this hard and claim indus valley/gandhara for deccan indians. You are not fooling anyone. I will bet you would consider it an honour to be associated with the Indus Valley, like most hindu nationalists out there. Pathetic indeed.

Also, where did you learn the hindi swear words?

[Friends of Baloch]

Avoiding the question of your own ethnicity. Only a diehard dravidian would shill this hard and claim indus valley/gandhara for deccan indians. You are not fooling anyone. I will bet you would consider it an honour to be associated with the Indus Valley, like most hindu nationalists out there. Pathetic indeed.

Also, where did you learn the hindi swear words?

No, nobody wants to be associated with Bundjabis and your stinking sh!t hole 'Indus valley', the cradle of Hindu Dalit civilization and the Dravidian pakis.

Just look at your 'Indus' Dravidian people and listen to the sound of your sh!t accents... Who the hell would want to be associated with you?

Some "Mughal" country black@ss Dravidian pakiland is!

What a joke.

[Markhor]

No, nobody wants to be associated with Bundjabis and your stinking sh!t hole 'Indus valley', the cradle of Hindu Dalit civilization and the Dravidian pakis.

Just look at your 'Indus' Dravidian people and listen to the sound of your sh!t accents... Who the hell would want to be associated with you?

Some "Mughal" country black@ss Dravidian pakiland is!

What a joke.

What race are you exactly? The fact that you try to hide your own ethnicity by putting smileys in a sentence says alot about you being ashamed of yourself.

[Razor]

No, nobody wants to be associated with Bundjabis and your stinking sh!t hole 'Indus valley', the cradle of Hindu Dalit civilization and the Dravidian pakis.

Just look at your 'Indus' Dravidian people and listen to the sound of your sh!t accents... Who the hell would want to be associated with you?

[SIZE=1][B]Some "Mughal" country black@ss Dravidian pakiland is!

You seem butt hurt about Punjabis and Sindhis being the genetic Indus Valley natives.
Culturally, they were influenced majorly by Mughals and Persians. i.e Urdu being a major piece of evidence. Your Dalit theories are pathetic and really gives you away.

Do you even realise the Aryan migration/Dravidian ancestor theory is complete bull**** and was invented by Germans/Brits who at the time thought the world was around 6000 years old. Or do you believe that yourself too?


Keep up the mindless racism. It matches your personality.

[Friends of Baloch]

You seem butt hurt about Punjabis and Sindhis being the genetic Indus Valley natives.
Culturally, they were influenced majorly by Mughals and Persians. i.e Urdu being a major piece of evidence. Your Dalit theories are pathetic and really gives you away.

Do you even realise the Aryan migration/Dravidian ancestor theory is complete bull**** and was invented by Germans/Brits who at the time thought the world was around 6000 years old. Or do you believe that yourself too?


Keep up the mindless racism. It matches your personality.

Urdu is nothing but a b@stardized Hindu language from the "Ganges region" that was introduced into Bundjab by your British masters because Bundjabi language is just a collection of uneducated and cheap Dalit dialects that nobody considered fit or adequate enough to be a language of administration and education, not even by your own 'leaders' in either pre-partition Bundjab or in modern Pakiland, so the only choice the British had to try to govern and civilize the Dravidians of northwest Hindustan in a native Indian language very close to their own was to introduce Urdu there.

And yes you are right that Bundjabis and Sindhis are the genetic descendants of the native Dravidian inhabitants of the "Indus". Just take one good look at pakis, their culture, languages, dirty cities etc etc and it is obvious that they are the same Dravidian race as the rest of the Hindus.

[Razor]

Urdu is nothing but a b@stardized Hindu language from the "Ganges region" that was introduced into Bundjab by your British masters because Bundjabi language is just a collection of uneducated and cheap Dalit dialects that nobody considered fit or adequate enough to be a language of administration and education, not even by your own 'leaders' in either pre-partition Bundjab or in modern Pakiland, so the only choice the British had to try to govern and civilize the Dravidians of northwest Hindustan in a native Indian language very close to their own was to introduce Urdu there.

And yes you are right that Bundjabis and Sindhis are the genetic descendants of the native Dravidian inhabitants of the "Indus". Just take one good look at pakis, their culture, languages, dirty cities etc etc and it is obvious that they are the same Dravidian race as the rest of the Hindus.

You seem to see Dravidians everywhere. This was a British/German theory that's debunked you blithering idiot. The world is not 6000 years old. The established ethnic groups have been there for millennia longer than the colonials estimated. They were taking into account the Biblical dates too.

Neither is human migration that simplistic that you can associate some 5000 year old ancestors with modern south Indians.

At least we have established that you are a south Indian yourself.

[Friends of Baloch]

You seem to see Dravidians everywhere. This was a British/German theory that's debunked you blithering idiot.

No, it is not a "British/German" theory that has been 'debunked', lol. The root Dravidian identity of your Pakiland and your sh!t sounding paki languages is the most widely held view around the World by scholars of linguistics and history. Only inferiority complex ridden Dravidians like you dont want to believe it because you are ashamed of being a descendant of Hindu Dalit with pathetic history and culture that every foreigner invader of your Bundjab spat on and ridiculed.

Are people like Dr. Safdar Ali Shah, Dr. Tariq Rahman, Dr. Asif Khan etc etc "British/German"?

Look at how pathetic and desparate you are to deny the truth. Even scholars of linguistics and history from universities in your own country affirm the Dravidian heritage of your dirty Pakiland, and you want to label them "British/German" just like you want to label yourself "Mughal", lol.

Read again.

Punjab Notes: Safdar Shah’s Punjabi Grammar and Nuzhat’s stories for children
Mushtaq SoofiApril 21, 2017
Punjab Notes: Safdar Shah’s Punjabi Grammar and Nuzhat’s stories for children - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

Dr Safdar Ali Shah is a poet, author, research scholar and linguist. He has a number of books to his credit some of which are Khabaan di Mutyaar (Punjabi poetry), Quest for Peace, Colonialism, English and Punjabi, The Sikh Heritage of Pakistan (co-author), The Hindu Heritage of Pakistan (co-author), The Buddhist Heritage of Pakistan (co-author) and Sufi Poetry of Pakistan.

Dr Shah currently works at the National University of Sciences and Technology, Islamabad, as Director Publishing and Student Affairs. He has an abiding interest in the Punjabi language and literature. “Punjabi Grammar”, his latest book, published by his university from Islamabad, had added to his already impressive repertoire. It fulfills the requirements of those who are in any way keen to understand and learn Punjabi as everyday speech and vehicle of creative expression. It’s neither the first book on Punjabi grammar nor the last. But it’s highly relevant because it deals with the grammatical structure as well as with the brief history and literature of the language.

“This book not only provides the details on the structure of the language, but also introduces the readers to some of the history and richness of the literature and culture that finds its strength in the ‘folk-character’ of Punjabi to which Dr Shah refers,” writes Lars Dyrud, the Principal Researcher, Sociolinguistic Survey of Punjabi, Pakistan (published 2011), Northland Community and Technical College, Minnesota, USA, in the blurb.

Dr Shah’s book which addresses the contemporary needs of language learning deserves such an accolade. His book seems accessible to both scholar and lay reader. He elucidates the hazy facets of the language structure and related issues in a lucid manner. The book is divided into different chapters in order to deal with diverse aspects of the language such as phonology, morphology and syntax which contain hidden in their innards the baffling secrets of stable but imperceptibly changing dynamics of incredibly complex abstract construct called language.

Language has contradictory nature; it can be as simple as breathing and it can be as difficult as looking for a needle in a haystack. Highly illuminating in fact is Dr Shah’s scholarly and researched introduction which takes a look at the trajectory of Punjab’s civilisation march. In order to understand the origins and development of the Punjabi language, one needs to know the complex evolution of Punjab’s society spanning over thousands of years. Any effort to fully analyse the highly stratified, layered and caste ridden society of the subcontinent will flounder if we ignore deliberately or out of ignorance the open secrets of Harappa civilisation which visibly underpins what is generally referred to as Indian civilisation. It’s in fact more of Pakistan’s heritage than that of contemporary India.

The core of a language cannot be discovered without discovering its speakers, Dr Shah rightly stresses. He explains briefly the ancient history of Punjab in which lie hidden the roots of its language. As to the origin of the Punjabi, three theories are prevalent: 1) it evolved from spoken Sanskrit 2) It sprang from the Vedic language 3) It predates Vedic and classical Sanskrit. It is indigenous language of Harappa and is organically linked to the group of Munda and Dravidian languages.

First two theories have been debunked by serious linguists and historians of the language in the aftermath of ample archeological evidence provided by excavations done on the Harappan sites. The vocabulary that the Punjabi language shares with the Vedic language and classical Sanskrit in no way proves that they gave birth to it because “the difficulty is that Sanskrit does not share a common syntax with these (so-called Indo-Aryan) languages,” writes Dr Shah.

He agrees with Asif Khan, Ainul Haq Faridkoti and others who with lot of painstaking research proved the non-Aryan origins of Punjabi.

Dr Safdar Shah has done a commendable job as his ‘Punjabi Grammar’ not only provides the readers with effective tools for learning Punjabi but also offers a valuable insight into an otherwise umbra filled cultural world of contemporary Punjab.

“Sattay Khairan”, a small book of stories for children, written and illustrated by Nuzhat Abbas, has been published by Punjab Lok Lehar, Sahiwal. Lok Lehar, headed by Qaswar Mubarak Butt, is a cultural body dedicated to promoting the Punjabi language, literature and culture.

Oxford-based Nuzhat Abbas is a well-known figure. She is a writer, vocalist and cultural activist. Her specialisation is child education in mother language. She is actively involved in helping expat parents acquire printed and audio-visual material so that they could teach their children Punjabi at home. It is now universally acknowledged (though not in Pakistan, especially in Punjab) that mother tongue plays a crucial role in developing a child’s communication skills and mental growth at an early age. It shapes his/her identity and creates sense of belonging. The book has an interesting format; the stories in Punjabi are printed in two scripts, Nastaliq (derived from Arabic) and Shahmukhi (derived from Landay) along with their English translation.

Gurmukhi part has been done by Sukhdev Sidhu and English translation is by Pratima Bhatia Mitchell. It caters to a range of diverse needs of Punjabi community. This small lovely book can be a source of delight for our children if we want them to know who we are and what is the wisdom bequeathed to us by our forefathers. Sattay Khairan should be on your child’s table.

Languages of the Proto-Historic Indus Valley

- Dr. Tariq Rahman, Beaconhouse National University, Lahore · School of Liberal Arts and Social Sciences: January 1996

The Language of the Indus Valley

Unfortunately the few symbols on the ceramics of the Kot Dijian culture have not been deciphered. F.A.Durrani, following B.B. Lal and
B.K.Thapar, suggests that these symbols may be the beginning of writing in the Indus Valley.14 There are, however, nearly 4,000
specimens of a script from the Indus Valley Civilization carved on stone, fragments of pottery and other objects.15 They have not been
deciphered satisfactorily but a history of the attempts at such decipherment is available in Asko Parpola's most recent book on the
subject.16 The script, or at least the pictographs, appear to have been uniform but that is not proof that the language too was one. In
fact, as in all parts of the world, the language must have been divided in dialects or area-bound varieties. It is possible, however, that
these were varieties of a language belonging to one language family. The question then is what that language family was?
Beginning from Sir John Marshall, who was the first to suggest that the language of the Indus Civilization was Dravidian 17, most
scholars have taken the 'Dravidian hypothesis' seriously.Piero Meriggi, a scholar who contributed towards the decipherment of the
Hittite hieroglyphs, opined that Brahvi, the Dravidian language spoken even now in part of Balochistan, must be the original Harappan
language 18. However, Brahvi has changed so much and become so Balochified, as Elfenbein points out 19, that it cannot give clear
evidence of any sort in this case. Another scholar, the Spanish Jesuit Henry Heras, 'turned more than 1,800 Indus texts into "Proto-
Dravidian" sentences' 20 but his decipherment and linguistic theories were not accepted. Later Soviet scholars headed by Yurij V.
Knorozov, carried on a very rigorous computer analysis of sign distribution in the Indus texts coming to the conclusion that it belonged
to the Dravidian language family 21. However, Kamil Zvelebil, also a Russian scholar came to the conclusion that 'the Dravidian affinity
of the Proto-Indian language remains only a very attractive and quite plausible hypothesis.22 Indeed, the plausibility of the hypothesis
is such that many people, such as Iravatham Mahadevan, a scholar of old Tamil epigraphy, have used it to offer readings of the Indus
script 23. F.C.Southworth and D.Mc Alpin used the Dravidian roots to reconstruct the language of the Indus Valley.24 Walter A.
Fairservis, another specialist in this area, stated with considerable certainty that 'the Harappan language was basically an early
Dravidian language'.25 Even Parpola, after much careful and detailed sifting of the evidence, opines 'that the Harappan language is
most likely to have belonged to the Dravidian family'.26

The Dravidian Influence on Pakistani Languages

If the Harrapan language family was Dravidian, then the first languages of the area of present-day Pakistan was not Indo-Aryan but
Dravidian. Such a claim has been made in an extreme and unsubstantiated form by Ainul Haq Faridkoti, a Pakistani philologist, in his
several publications.27 Other scholars have used the theory of linguistic 'transfer' or 'interference' to explain the presence of Dravidian
elements in the languages of present-day Pakistan which are generally said to be the daughters of Sanskrit, an Indo-Aryan language.
'Transfer' or 'interference' refers to the influence of the rules of one's first language on another language one learns later. Thus, if
Pakistanis learn English, they speak it more or less according to the rules of their first language. As they get more and more exposed
to the rules of English, they will speak like native speakers. However, some characteristics of the mother tongue of the speaker will
remain which is what we call a Punjabi, Pashto, Sindhi or Urdu accent. 28
Sometimes an old language dies out and all its speakers learn a new language. But the way they use this language is influenced by
the rules of their old language. The new language, then, has a 'substratum' of the old language. If we apply this theory to old Indo-Aryan
we can hypothesize that the Harappan language, which was probably Dravidian, influenced old Aryan. Thus Pakistani languages have
a Dravidian substratum. The evidence for the presence of this substratum, according to Bertil Tikkanen, is the presence of retroflex
consonants which do not exist in Iranian or European members of the Indo-European family of languages.29 Another clue may be the
existence of consonantal clusters in the beginning and end of words in Iranian, European , Dardic languages and even Sanskrit. Thus
Sanskrit has /p r e m/ which means love. But Hindi-Urdu speakers call it /p i r e m/. They insert the vowel /i/ between the two word-
initial consonants /p/ and /r/ because their own rules of pronunciation (called phonological rules) do not allow word-initial consonantal
clusters. Similarly, speakers of Urdu, Punjabi and Sindhi separate consonants in word such as 'school', 'stool' and 'small' etc.30 It may
be that this splitting of consonantal clusters comes into some of the languages of South Asia from languages older than Sanskrit. This,
however, is a suggestion by the present author which needs much research by linguists for substantiation.

The Language of Gandhara

According to A.H.Dani 'the new cultural trends of the centuries were identified in the swat, Dir, and Peshawar valleys, and because of its original location in that area, it was termed "Gandhara Grave Culture"'. 45 This region was inhabited by the Dasas who worshipped the snake and must have spoken the Indus Valley's Dravidian languages(s) before the Aryans established their supremacy here. 46 By the first millennium B.C, however, 'the Aryanization of most of the population of the northern areas of the subcontinent was complete'. 47 The elite used Sanskrit as we have seen but the common people used what scholars have called 'North-Western Prakrit' or the 'language of Gandhara'. 48 This language, opines Gankovsky, was probably made up of elements from the languages of the 'local pre-Indo-European population and Indo-Aryan tribes, as well as the Dardic and East-Iranian ethnic elements'. 49

-

Languages of the Proto-Historic Indus Valley. Available from: ResearchGate | Share and discover research [accessed Oct 07 2017].

[Razor]

^^

The Aryan migration theory is colonial fantasy. I don't even think you have read what you are constantly spamming. These are theories and described as "quite plausible hypothesis". i.e Little Evidence. Untranslatable language.

You must be burning up realising that Dravidians are not as great as you thought they were since you can no longer leech off Pashtun/Balochi/Indus valley history.

Read this and cry your heart out:

The Awans are a well-known ethnic group found in the southern districts of the Khyber Pukhtunkhwa Province of Pakistan. Awans claim to be immigrants from western Afghanistan. However, Brandreth (Ibbetson, 2001) asserts that Awans emigrated from north-central Afghanistan. Other researchers claim the Awans are indigenous South Asians, being related to either Rajput or Jat populations of peninsular India (Cunningham, 2010) or to local ethnic groups of the northern Indus Valley of Pakistan (Dani, 1993).

This investigation is based on measurement of maximum mesiodistal lengths and buccolingual breadths of all permanent teeth, except third molars, and assessment of dental morphology variations scored in accordance with the Arizona State University Dental Morphology System in a sample of 176 Awan young adults. These data were contrasted with 21 samples of prehistoric and living individuals from Pakistan, peninsular India, Central Asia, and the Iranian Plateau. Patterns of intersample differences were examined with neighbor-joining cluster analysis and principal coordinates analysis.

Results obtained from odontometric and dental morphology analyses are highly congruent. In both cases, Awans are identified as possessing closest affinities to prehistoric inhabitants of the Indus Valley, with more distant affinities to living ethnic groups from the Hindu Kush highlands and inhabitants of peninsular India. Awans share little to no affinities to prehistoric inhabitants of Central Asia. Such results suggest that the living Awans of Mansehra District most likely represent the descendants of indigenous populations of the Indus Valley of Pakistan, and provide no support for claims of Central Asian or peninsular Indian origins.

Poster: Hemphill 212 The Awans of northern Pakistan—emigrants from Central Asia, Arabs from western Afghanistan, or colonists from peninsular India?: a dental morphometric investigation

[Friends of Baloch]

^^

The Aryan migration theory is colonial fantasy. I don't even think you have read what you are constantly spamming. These are theories and described as "quite plausible hypothesis". i.e Little Evidence. Untranslatable language.

You must be burning up realising that Dravidians are not as great as you thought they were since you can no longer leech off Pashtun/Balochi/Indus valley history.

Read this and cry your heart out:

Poster: Hemphill 2�12 The Awans of northern Pakistan—emigrants from Central Asia, Arabs from western Afghanistan, or colonists from peninsular India?: a dental morphometric investigation

Are you dumb or something? This excerpt confirms what everyone else here has been telling you pakis every time one of you Dravidians comes here and tries to tell us that you are not Indian

[Razor]

Are you dumb or something? This excerpt confirms what everyone else here has been telling you pakis every time one of you Dravidians comes here and tries to tell us that you are not Indian

Then read it again you retard. Slowly this time.

It clearly states that Punjabi tribes, Awans for example are native to the Indus valley region and are not migrants from Central Asia or peninsular India.

This study was used to disprove Aryan migration. i.e Indo-Aryans are natives, especially for the retarded 6000 year old world timeline that colonials were using as a framework to explain their own origins.

[Friends of Baloch]

Then read it again you retard. Slowly this time.

It clearly states that Punjabi tribes, Awans for example are native to the Indus valley region and are not migrants from Central Asia or peninsular India.

This study was used to disprove Aryan migration. i.e Indo-Aryans are natives, especially for the retarded 6000 year old world timeline that colonials were using as a framework to explain their own origins.

Lol stupid, do you even know what this excerpt is about? This is a study that was done measuring the tooth shapes and sizes from a sample of 176 people from the same paki community in Manshera and comparing them to the teeth of 21 prehistoric samples and people living in different places.

What do the tooth shapes of these 176 Awans from Manshera have to do with the identification of the Dravidian substratum of Bundjabi language by linguists?

[Razor]

Lol stupid, do you even know what this excerpt is about? This is a study that was done measuring the tooth shapes and sizes from a sample of 176 people from the same paki community in Manshera and comparing them to the teeth of 21 prehistoric samples and people living in different places.

What do the tooth shapes of these 176 Awans from Manshera have to do with the identification of the Dravidian substratum of Bundjabi language by linguists?

I am sure you are more knowledgeable than Dr BRIAN HEMPHILL from Anthropology, California State University, Bakersfield. But this is how science works, retard. A random Punjabi tribe were proven, with whatever resources available, to be NATIVE to the Indus valley.

This is sure as hell a lot better than your personal Dravidian-centric theory involving Climate change 3500 years ago, Dalit tracing, British/German biblical timeframe of 6000 years and the so called aryans.

So be honest now. Why are you hellbent on handing over Pashtun/Balochi/Indus valley heritage to Dravidian people? This has been debunked.

Could it possibly be because you are south Indian yourself? Shame you are embarrassed about this. You know, its not against the rules to be Indian on these forums. Nobody is going to scream at you. Come out of the closet already

[maneatinglizard]

This Razor fool sure is dull. He's getting rekt so hard I almost feel bad for him.

Funny thing is that he was crying previously about us agreeing with Hindu nationalists regarding the indigenous people of Peshawar Valley being Indian, but now he's regurgitating the Hindu nationalist fantasy that there was no Aryan migration into India. No scholar outside of India treats the "indigenous Aryan theory" as anything but a sad joke, but Dull Razor over here is pushing it because it makes him feel better about his loser existence.

More proof that Blunt Razor's true enemy is reality, not his Indian brothers.