Pakistan Census 2017 (pashtun Population)

[Razor]

Afghanistan has never been referred to as oriental India by any British historian past or present. The earliest and most comprehensive British writer on Afghanistan called it the "Kingdom of Caubul". Nothing to do with India.

Every British historian or writer or soldier hasn't made a clear distinction between India and Afghanistan. Many were of the opinion that India stops at the river Indus for very obvious reasons.

Why can't any Desi accept that Afghanistan is a separate region with a distinct and completely separate culture?

Though I was referring to Kingdom of Gandhara, which is considered India apparently. Indus doesnt stop Indian claims.

[Markhor]

I agree with you. I was making the point that Europeans were very inaccurate with the use of the term India.

Its you who are not accepting that Punjabi and Sindhi cultures are also distinct and you cant package everything into an "Indian identity". There are overlaps but some of the claims here are insane

You have got to understand that some of the Afghans on here cling on to their medieval culture because they have nothing else left. Majority of them are losers in real life who have nothing to show for but will gladly give you a history lesson on where you came from and how you are a dalkhor .

[Markhor]

Afghans do know that, and Afghans ridicule those Indian lies and ignorance too just like your lies and ignorance have been ridiculued here.

Sure the Afghans are so superior that they go to India in thousands to seek medical treatment, education, and tourism. Worth mentioning the new Afghan generation who is fond of Bollywood movies. Stop with your BS

[Samandri]

Cultures evolve.

I dont understand your argument though. Mughals didn't become Hindu. You do realise they were Urdu speaking Muslims.

I am sure they could speak and understand the native Hindi/Dehlavi language but their household and court language was Farsi and they were also educated in their ancestral language Turki. Urdu became popular in 19th century and British played great role in promoting Urdu and undermining Farsi. British promoted Urdu because by roots it was an indigenous language.

[maneatinglizard]

Cultures evolve.

I dont understand your argument though. Mughals didn't become Hindu. You do realise they were Urdu speaking Muslims.

No they weren't. They spoke Persian and a Turkic language.

I agree with you. I was making the point that Europeans were very inaccurate with the use of the term India.

Its you who are not accepting that Punjabi and Sindhi cultures are also distinct and you cant package everything into an "Indian identity". There are overlaps but some of the claims here are insane

No one claimed that Punjabi and Sindhi cultures didn't have their own distinct qualities. Stop arguing against strawmen.

Despite their distinct qualities, they're still firmly within the realm of Indic cultures, and this is plain for everyone in the world to see. Indians all see it. Non-Indians see it. Everyone except some Pakistanis like you.

[Samandri]

You have got to understand that some of the Afghans on here cling on to their medieval culture because they have nothing else left. Majority of them are losers in real life who have nothing to show for but will gladly give you a history lesson on where you came from and how you are a dalkhor .

Peshawar_222, refrain from calling members here losers in real life. You are still a boy staying in Malaysia as a student. You have yet to achieve any thing in life. Your parents have spent a lot of money in sending you there for studies , so concentrate on your studies boy.

[Razor]

You have got to understand that some of the Afghans on here cling on to their medieval culture because they have nothing else left. Majority of them are losers in real life who have nothing to show for but will gladly give you a history lesson on where you came from and how you are a dalkhor .

Lol. I have plenty of Afghan friends though. Never had any issues but I know what you mean. Its usually the keyboard warriors that are the most hateful.


I am not trying to come across as a raging nationalist of anything. I realise that Punjabis/Sindhis are indeed very close to North Indians in particular. Its history as we have centuries of Mughal heritage in common followed by British raj. No shame or no denying that, but at the same time I don't understand why Afghan members want to **** on Punjabi and Sindhi people. Or dismiss a great Muslim empire like the Mughals who developed a unique culture and identity that had very little to do with native Indian identities.

Its sad more than anything else. I never feel the need to disrespect Afghans despite our differences.

[Razor]

No one claimed that Punjabi and Sindhi cultures didn't have their own distinct qualities. Stop arguing against strawmen.

Despite their distinct qualities, they're still firmly within the realm of Indic cultures, and this is plain for everyone in the world to see. Indians all see it. Non-Indians see it. Everyone except some Pakistanis like you.

Like I said. I agree that Punjabi/Sindhi can be categorised with North Indians, but literally what is your point? It doesn't make them the same people.

We are all Indo-Iranians too apparently, and most Non-Indians can't tell the difference between brown people in general. These are technical categories, not actual identities.

[maneatinglizard]

Lol. I have plenty of Afghan friends though. Never had any issues but I know what you mean. Its usually the keyboard warriors that are the most hateful.

Never had any problems because you never tried telling them that you're actually a Mughal instead of a Punjabi.

We wouldn't have a problem with you if your first words here weren't "Pakistanis are as much "Indian" as Afghans." Go ahead and say that to your Afghan friends in real life and see how they react.

I am not trying to come across as a raging nationalist of anything. I realise that Punjabis/Sindhis are indeed very close to North Indians in particular. Its history as we have centuries of Mughal heritage in common followed by British raj. No shame or no denying that, but at the same time I don't understand why Afghan members want to **** on Punjabi and Sindhi people.

Might have something to do with Punjabis constantly coming here and trying to explain how they're actually Mughals/Arabs/Afghans/Turks/Persians.

Our problem is with fake people.

Or dismiss a great Muslim empire like the Mughals who developed a unique culture and identity that had very little to do with native Indian identities.

Stop with this dishonesty. No one is dismissing the Mughals. We're dismissing your nonexistent relation to them. You're not a Mughal.

[maneatinglizard]

We are all Indo-Iranians too apparently, and most Non-Indians can't tell the difference between brown people in general.

There you go trying to lump us all together again.

We're not "brown people," and everyone can tell the difference between an Afghan and an Indian. An ignorant person may not know what to call them, but no one is going to look at an average Afghan and an average Indian, and think they're the same ethnicity or race.

They can't tell the difference between a random Indian and you because you guys are closely related.

[Razor]

Might have something to do with Punjabis constantly coming here and trying to explain how they're actually Mughals/Arabs/Afghans/Turks/Persians.

Our problem is with fake people.

Stop with this dishonesty. No one is dismissing the Mughals. We're dismissing your nonexistent relation to them. You're not a Mughal.

I was talking about culture and the Urdu language. There, could have saved your rant. I have always maintained that Punjabis are Punjabis. Its you and your Indian friend here that wants to group everyone into a handful of identities.

There you go trying to lump us all together again.

Are you an actual idiot? This is YOUR logic. I was being sarcastic. You started talking about Indo-Aryan as if its an actual thing. Why not expand it into Indo-Iranian, another pointless theoretical group.

We're not "brown people," and everyone can tell the difference between an Afghan and an Indian. An ignorant person may not know what to call them, but no one is going to look at an average Afghan and an average Indian, and think they're the same ethnicity or race.


They can't tell the difference between a random Indian and you because you guys are closely related.

You have obviously never been to the west. Nobody considers Middle easterners anything other than Brown.

[Razor]

We wouldn't have a problem with you if your first words here weren't "Pakistanis are as much "Indian" as Afghans." Go ahead and say that to your Afghan friends in real life and see how they react.

You have a problem with "my words", but do you realise that Indians use the EXACT same arguments to claim Gandhara and Baluchistan, which according to them was Hindu?

India is a vague concept, and if you are going to use the vague "indic" argument, then prepare to give up a lot more for the sake of it.

[Elite Pakhtun]

Like Pakistanis refuse to believe that their country is just an extension of India,

And Afghanistan is just an extension of Pakistan.

Hindustan has historically been identified as the land east of the Khyber Pass starting from the lowland plains down from Peshawar all the way east to the Bay of Bengal.

Not Khyber Pass, Indus River. Please cite the khyber pass claims.

Indic culture makes as much sense as Asian culture. It's a category, but its not actually a thing.

And I think you realise that a lot of Indians include Pashtun heritage in their version of Indian and Indian culture. Might want to be careful with that term....

While this may be technically true, I always meant it from a cultural and looks perspective. I suspect they mean the same/similar. One can't deny that there is a big difference even though they're neighboring peoples.

But, if you ask a non-native to tell the difference between the two, they won't be able to. Those who have friends/know a bit will be able to. But the rest won't be able to. It's just some variation of brown in their eyes.

There you go trying to lump us all together again.

We're not "brown people," and everyone can tell the difference between an Afghan and an Indian. An ignorant person may not know what to call them, but no one is going to look at an average Afghan and an average Indian, and think they're the same ethnicity or race.

They can't tell the difference between a random Indian and you because you guys are closely related.

I know of an Afghan person, who is very dark skinned. This person could easily pass for Indian. The person is in their 40s, and sells candles in a very large city.

What do you have to say about that? There's lots of dark Afghanis. Many look indistinguishable from Pakistanis, or even some north Indiots.

If this is all about some language family thing, then man did I ever get the wrong message. I was thinking more in terms of looks...

[Traveller]

[MENTION=20203]Razor[/MENTION] is kind of right. You can't really say Pakistan is "Indian" because the idea of India as a united cultural region is a made-up fantasy created by westerners, South Asia is home to many diverse cultures and language. And the geographical region of India, i.e. Hindustan, is strictly defined as being east of the Indus River, the majority of Pakistan is west of the Indus River so even by that definition Pakistan is not Indian. Pakistan includes Pashtuns and Balochis who have no connection to India.

[kunatawar]

You have got to understand that some of the Afghans on here cling on to their medieval culture because they have nothing else left. Majority of them are losers in real life who have nothing to show for but will gladly give you a history lesson on where you came from and how you are a dalkhor .

thats the exact same argument racist 'modernized' punjabis/muhajirs use against pakistani pashtuns lol