Jumat-i-Islami are enemies of Pakhtuns

[Firdousi]

That's fine, I wasn't trying to discourage you, I'm just saying there's a lot of rubbish,, but certainly you'll find a lot of fascinating things or things you may see as honorable.

There is a lot of rubbish in every country, culture, people,.. still I find Arab culture much more interesting (no offense) than Pashtun culture.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

There is a lot of rubbish in every country, culture, people,.. still I find Arab culture much more interesting (no offense) than Pashtun culture.

Pashtuns and at least Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula, not so much Shami Arabs, have a great deal of overlap, both good and bad things.

[Firdousi]

Pashtuns and at least Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula, not so much Shami Arabs, have a great deal of overlap, both good and bad things.

I used to live in Emirates. Still remember first time I went to a "Emirati restaurant". Man I was so disappointed. All their food was mandis from Yemen, Bariyani and Kurmas from India, hummus from Lebanon, umm ali from Egypt and zereshk polo from Iran (we have this dish in Afghanistna too).

Khaliji Arabs lack of proper culture. They adopted everything from Yemenis, Indians, Iranians and Levantine Arabs.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

"Phoenician"*

"Fenician" culture doesn't exist anymore. Their culture was assimilated into Levantine Arab culture. You remind me of some fascist Christians from Syria and Lebanon always bitching against Arabs claiming that Islam changed the demography and the culture of the region but thats utter BS basically because Arabs took over the ME much before Islam (Palmyra, Ghassanids, Lakhmids,. so I don't know what you mean by "Fenian culture" when this culture vanished long time ago.

Indeed I find Levantine Arab culture much interesting than Arabs from northern Africa (Morocco is a nice place) or the Khalij region. Love Emirates and Oman though

All those elements you mentioned are part and parcel of Fenicians/Levantines.

The Arabs came and mixed with the locals. The current culture of the levant is a product of that particular region. There is a huge distinction between proper Arab culture of the peninsula, Berber culture and Levantine culture.

If I was shoving belly dancing and eating baba ghanoush down your throats and prohibiting you from bacha Bazi, you could say that I am forcing Arab/Levantine culture on you.

Your typical Sereen Farsi nationalist initial comment suggested exactly that.

Your problem with the prohibition of celebrating non-Muslim festivals is a problem of nationalism. You have a problem with Islam. You don't have a problem with Arab culture. You admitted that you actually love Arab culture.

You just hate the fact that Islam dictates what you should do. You are at war with yourself.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

I used to live in Emirates. Still remember first time I went to a "Emirati restaurant". Man I was so disappointed. All their food was mandis from Yemen, Bariyani and Kurmas from India, hummus from Lebanon, umm ali from Egypt and zereshk polo from Iran (we have this dish in Afghanistna too).

Khaliji Arabs lack of proper culture. They adopted everything from Yemenis, Indians, Iranians and Levantine Arabs.

Jaziri Arabs include Yemeni, but yeah you're right, Khalej are a bit heterodox and not very distinct on their own except the kefaya and thawb dress. I guess what I mean is Yemeni Arabs and Pashtuns are very similar in behavior and customs.

[Firdousi]

Jaziri Arabs include Yemeni, but yeah you're right, Khalej are a bit heterodox and not very distinct on their own except the kefaya and thawb dress. I guess what I mean is Yemeni Arabs and Pashtuns are very similar in behavior and customs.

I don't consider Yemenis "khalijis" they are not even GCC members.

There was this restaurant in Deira, called "Al Saudi al Yemeni" I used to visit it on a weekly basis (I guess its still running, they had a lot of local and Indian costumers. Mandis were delicious and also that black tea with cloves.. wow! Yemeni food is yummy.

[Firdousi]

All those elements you mentioned are part and parcel of Fenicians/Levantines.

The Arabs came and mixed with the locals. The current culture of the levant is a product of that particular region. There is a huge distinction between proper Arab culture of the peninsula, Berber culture and Levantine culture.

If I was shoving belly dancing and eating baba ghanoush down your throats and prohibiting you from bacha Bazi, you could say that I am forcing Arab/Levantine culture on you.

Your typical Sereen Farsi nationalist initial comment suggested exactly that.

Your problem with the prohibition of celebrating non-Muslim festivals is a problem of nationalism. You have a problem with Islam. You don't have a problem with Arab culture. You admitted that you actually love Arab culture.

You just hate the fact that Islam dictates what you should do. You are at war with yourself.

Thats the point, brother. That I don't need a book from 1400 years ago to dictate what I should do with my life. i respect Islamic values but I don't consider it an absolute thing.

Phoenician culture vanished. It got mixed with Arab culture and now its called Arab Levantine culture. Everything changes. Just like th culture of Khwarasan had to change after several barbaric tribes such as Mongols, Arabs, Pashtuns, invaded it. Now we are much different than what our forefathers were 2000 years ago. Everything changes. Get over it.

Whether I am at war with myself or not thats none of your business. You crazy irrational Talibs always act like you hold the higher moral ground but I know how hypocrite and fake you are. Dont act like I need your approval because I don't.

Word to the wise: I am at war against irrational Talibs like you.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Thats the point, brother. That I don't need a book from 1400 years ago to dictate what I should do with my life. i respect Islamic values but I don't consider it an absolute thing.

Thats the whole problem with being at war with yourself. You aren't making any sense.

Islam is as tradition: spirituality, morality and law. If you pick and choose what you like and what you don't like, you are basically worshipping yourself. That's liberalism. The desires and wishes of the individual are king. No other source of ethics and morality is accepted.

When you have thoroughly internalized the Western secular liberal way of thinking and you still want to hold on to Islam, you are deceiving yourself.

That's why when you participate in discussions on this forum you are inconsistent and self contradictory.

[Firdousi]

Thats the whole problem with being at war with yourself. You aren't making any sense.

Islam is as tradition: spirituality, morality and law. If you pick and choose what you like and what you don't like, you are basically worshipping yourself. That's liberalism. The desires and wishes of the individual are king. No other source of ethics and morality is accepted.

When you have thoroughly internalized the Western secular liberal way of thinking and you still want to hold on to Islam, you are deceiving yourself.

That's why when you participate in discussions on this forum you are inconsistent and self contradictory.

Please, stop, you are hurting my feelings lol

Liberalism to some degree is good. I am more for collective societies. I guess one of the reasons Western civilization is far ahead from the Islamic civilization is liberalism.

I can and I will choose what I want. I couldn't care less about chopping off hands, stoning people to death or beheading people. Thats barbaric and irrational. This has nothing to do with liberalism but more with rationalism and humanism. You seriously support chopping off someone hands just because he stole an iphone? Seriously a f*cking phone is more important than someones hand? What if after few years that person repents and becomes a decent human being? How will that man make a living without one hand?

I know you will now come up with all that "there is a lot of jurisprudence behind it" but still it won't change the fact about how irrational and anti-humanist your point of view is

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

Please, stop, you are hurting my feelings lol

Liberalism to some degree is good. I am more for collective societies. I guess one of the reasons Western civilization is far ahead from the Islamic civilization is liberalism.

I can and I will choose what I want. I couldn't care less about chopping off hands, stoning people to death or beheading people. Thats barbaric and irrational. This has nothing to do with liberalism but more with rationalism and humanism. You seriously support chopping off someone hands just because he stole an iphone? Seriously a f*cking phone is more important than someones hand? What if after few years that person repents and becomes a decent human being? How will that man make a living without one hand?

I know you will now come up with all that "there is a lot of jurisprudence behind it" but still it won't change the fact about how irrational and anti-humanist your point of view is

You are educated and programmed by Western thought and yet you don't even know it. The way you use words like humanism and rationalism reveals how you think. Philosophical liberalism is the religion of the West. Humanism and rationalism aren't separate entities outside it.

I suggest you examine the words you are using and study the origins of your belief system and stop regurgitating them like buzzwords.

[Firdousi]

You are educated and programmed by Western thought and yet you don't even know it. The way you use words like humanism and rationalism reveals how you think. Philosophical liberalism is the religion of the West. Humanism and rationalism aren't separate entities outside it.

I suggest you examine the words you are using and study the origins of your belief system and stop regurgitating them like buzzwords.

You see? You are once again proving me right. You are so confused that you don't even know what you are talking about. Humanism and rationalism are different entities. Indeed Western Liberalism is an offshoot of modern secular humanism and rationalism. But this are completely different entities.

Now I am going to teach some history. Rationalism and humanism are not mere Western phenomenon. By saying so you are giving away our heritage (I know that an Arab wannabe like doesn't care so much about this) to Westerners. Muslims specially we Persians developed humanism much before than Europeans. We have even a word for it: INSANIYAT. Go read some Persian poems. Mawlana, Khayyam, Saadi, Hafez, Rudaki,.. all of them were humanist.

Regarding rationalism Muslims developed it like ten centuries ago. Have you ever heard about the mutazila? Unfortunately they failed to impose their rationalism.

We need to create a modern rational Islamic world. I don't think Western Liberaislm is going to workout in the Islamic world (look at Turkey after a century of Kemalist tyranny Islam is back). We need to find a third way: your irrational conservatism is a failure. So is Liberalism. Islamic rationalism is the only way left.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Islam may dictate what Shamlawar does, if he wants religion as just a bunch of empty dictations. For me Islam guides what I do, sure there maybe basic things that are commanded or forbidden, but these cardinal rules that provide a frame to operate from, Outside of that there's a lot of leg room, a way to reason through our foundations and apply them. In none of that, do I find anything that would shut down Nawruz or Basant or anything. The basic rules are character, living ethically regarding our lifestyle and interactions, guarding personal and social well being, guarding lineage and family., social justice.

In none of these do I find anything that prevents us from singing, dancing, celebrating Nawruz, reading ooems, playing chess, studying math, exploring philosophy, drawing inspiration from our heritage.

It is only those that have hijacked the enterprise, and made things more complicated to issue a bid for control, that have entered all this superfluous stuff. These are not the relevations of Prophets,but the interests of human beings.

[Firdousi]

Islam may dictate what Shamlawar does, if he wants religion as just a bunch of empty dictations. For me Islam guides what I do, sure there maybe basic things that are commanded or forbidden, but these cardinal rules that provide a frame to operate from, Outside of that there's a lot of leg room, a way to reason through our foundations and apply them. In none of that, do I find anything that would shut down Nawruz or Basant or anything. The basic rules are character, living ethically regarding our lifestyle and interactions, guarding personal and social well being, guarding lineage and family., social justice.

In none of these do I find anything that prevents us from singing, dancing, celebrating Nawruz, reading ooems, playing chess, studying math, exploring philosophy, drawing inspiration from our heritage.

It is only those that have hijacked the enterprise, and made things more complicated to issue a bid for control, that have entered all this superfluous stuff. These are not the relevations of Prophets,but the interests of human beings.

Thank you, Iblis, THANK YOU.

Many Muslims seriously believe Islam is just about praying five times and not eating pork. For God sake Islam is a complex faith, with deep and solid moral values. Hundreds of thinkers, philosophers, scholars,.. worked and gathered plenty of information and knowledge within the Islamic framework.

Muslims were able to create a rich jurisprudence eight centuries ago but modern Muslims like Shamlawar can't even tolerate those who disagree with them. Shamlawar represents all what is wrong with the modern Islamic world: irrationalism, dogmatism and intolerance.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

What both of you are saying is best summarized as this: Islamic texts conflicting with my personal desires and preferences are restrictive. I want to be able to say that I am a Muslim and still do whatever I want.

The problem here is that you think that if there is anything in Islam that doesn't meet your own personal desires then it must be changed. All this talk of humanism, rationalism and homo erotic gay Persian poets is just hollow rhetoric.

It all stems from your understanding of Islam. Newsflash: You can be a Muslim and you can acknowledge and respect some aspects of Islam as truly Islamic even if they restrict you from doing whatever you want.

Muslims lie, cheat, drink alcohol, fornicate and do all sorts of other stuff prohibited in Islam. Still they don't say: Islam should become more rational or liberal to accommodate their needs. No! They just accept that they are human beings and that they aren't supposed to be perfect and free from sin. They just try to improve themselves as individuals without having to do mental gymnastics.

That's a much more liberating approach to religion and life than what you guys are advocating.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Thank you, Iblis, THANK YOU.

Many Muslims seriously believe Islam is just about praying five times and not eating pork. For God sake Islam is a complex faith, with deep and solid moral values. Hundreds of thinkers, philosophers, scholars,.. worked and gathered plenty of information and knowledge within the Islamic framework.

Muslims were able to create a rich jurisprudence eight centuries ago but modern Muslims like Shamlawar can't even tolerate those who disagree with them. Shamlawar represents all what is wrong with the modern Islamic world: irrationalism, dogmatism and intolerance.

Well I believe there's room for everyone. if Shamlawar wants this rigid, austere way of life, no fun, no movies, no art, no laughter, that's fine. As long as this isn't what he expects everyone else to be like.

But this isn't the vision I want for our future. Our growth as people and as humanity depends on our willingness and openness to explore different avenues of experience and expression. We have the framework and the essential principles by which to navigate ourselves, let's use them to explore the deeper riches of our existence. In Science and in the Arts and Humanities. We're never going to recreate the past, and we don't have to, we just have to use the tools that gave us to build our future.

Nawruz ruits are delicious.