Afghan and Pakistani border guards clash in Torkham

[Azmal]

Cede the Tajik-dominated areas to Tajikistan, or give them a sovereign republic and we'll give you your FATA and KPK. Pinky promise

Tajik dominated area has always been part of Afghan state, in fact some part of today's Tajikistan---Panj Dahi is also legally part of Afghanistan. I hope Afghan government can claim that area. There was some talk about it a while ago but then it faded away. There has never been a secession movement in Afghanistan's history...no Pashtunisan movement, no Baluchistan, no Sindi Dish or Kurdistan. None. Honestly, if Tajiks wanted to join Tajikistan they would have done it when there was no government. All you see is Khorassani movement by Qazilbash on behalf of Iran and that to is only limited online.

[Azmal]

Raheel attend dozens of funerals of paki soldiers, from majors to ordinary jawan to pay respect.

The fact is Pakistan cares a lot and have escalated this from top---the real ruler of Pakistan Raheel. It was regular Pakistani Fuj that attacked Afghan border police forces and yet they got a bloody nose. Even when thanks to Pakis baba Durand pakis enjoy higher ground and battle ground advantage.

[Porus]

Tajik dominated area has always been part of Afghan state

Not really. These areas were annexed by Ahmad Shah Abdali and kept during the Sadozai kingdom. Fair enough, if you want to disintegrate Pakistan on an ethno-linguistic basis.. I'm all for it. But don't assert that ya'll in Afghanistan can keep different ethnic groups while Pakistan can't, because that's just hypocritical.

Btw: Sindhudesh movement is like lol. No one's heard of it since 1971. Nationalist parties can't win a single seat in Sindh. The only Pashtun nationalist party in KPK, failed to win the last elections. The only insurgency is the Baluch insurgency. To which I admit, they have a genuine grievance. Our establishment should allow the Baluch issue to be discussed on public forums and completely subtract the Pak army from Baluchistan.

[Azmal]

Pakistanis are doing what your ****ty Tajik led government said. No cross border terrorism means we need to control the border. However, you Indian loving Afghans need to prove yourselves for your Indian friends that built your friendship dam.

So your country wants to send militants into Pakistan and kill more school children, while crying about us stopping them on the border.

Afghans are truly namak haram.


After this debacle, I hope Pakistan Army fully supports the Afghan taliban. You people deserve it.

Little boy listen to your leader....he knew it well that your coward army will never be able to fight red army...it was 2 million Afghan Shahid that saved your stinky brown ass from red army who were trying to reach warm waters...yet what you do afterward? You kill us in the face when we were down on our knees after fighting soviet. Honestly I don't know how you Pakis live with yourselves!


Zia ul Haq Warning | Afghan War US and Pakistan | Ahmadi Jewish Network !! MUST SEE !! - YouTube



Zia ul Haq Warning | Afghan War US and Pakistan | Ahmadi Jewish Network !! MUST SEE !! - YouTube

[Azmal]

Not really. These areas were annexed by Ahmad Shah Abdali and kept during the Sadozai kingdom. Fair enough, if you want to disintegrate Pakistan on an ethno-linguistic basis.. I'm all for it. But don't assert that ya'll in Afghanistan can keep different ethnic groups while Pakistan can't, because that's just hypocritical.

Btw: Sindhudesh movement is like lol. No one's heard of it since 1971. Nationalist parties can't win a single seat in Sindh. The only Pashtun nationalist party in KPK, failed to win the last elections. The only insurgency is the Baluch insurgency. To which I admit, they have a genuine grievance. Our establishment should allow the Baluch issue to be discussed on public forums and completely subtract the Pak army from Baluchistan.

Afghan state was created by Ahmad shah baba and yet there has never been a secessionist movement. You sound like one of those Shai Qazil Khorasssani gang then paki.

Bhutto Killing Roils Province, Spurring Call to Quit Pakistan




http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB119974719357173263

"We hate Pakistan," they chanted. "We don't want Pakistan."



"The Punjabi elite treats us as a slave nation, and Sindh as an occupied territory," says Qadir Magsi, head of the nationalist Sindh Taraqi Passand movement. "Benazir Bhutto was the last hope to keep Pakistan united. Now, this Pakistan must be broken apart."

"Many believed that our survival is through the parliamentary system. But now, after the killing, the people realized this is not the case, and that we have to fight," says Ghaffar Bhutto, a Sindhi writer and politician who says he is distantly related to Ms. Bhutto. "We don't need Pakistan, and we no longer see our future in it."

[Golden]

As per original durand line agreement people living within five miles of the line can travel freely both sides without showing any documents. there are 150000 pakistani skilled worker living inside Afghanistan and almost the same number of pakistani refugee in khost without any documents. pakistan is not honoring the durand line agreement itself. this torkham gate has nothing to do with preventing terrorist, there are 235 entry exit point along the durand line but custom and immigration procedure are only applicable to torkham and chaman. pakistan is actually trying to decide the fate of durand line unilaterally, i consider it a bluff on pakistan part, afghanistan should react aggressively to this incident otherwise pakistan will repeat this at every entry point, and border fencing will be coming after this.

150000? Any source to your claim? few working in Pakistan funded projects in Afghanistan are harassed all the time.

Anyway Afghanis have already backed off, Torkham gate is just a start.

[Toramana]

Don't trust any Paki news about war. Paki-Punjabi Army cannot fight and the only thing it can do is to use high-tech weaponry against civilians, e.g., F-16. Even India has not used an air power in Kashmir so far. An army which is into businesses, factories, cannot fight.

One elder told me in 1971, Pakistan radio was claiming these many tanks of the enemy have been destroyed and Indian army has been beaten back and the next day we knew that Pakistan army has surrendered.

[Azmal]

150000? Any source to your claim? few working in Pakistan funded projects in Afghanistan are harassed all the time.

Anyway Afghanis have already backed off, Torkham gate is just a start.

Sources please.

[Porus]

Afghan state was created by Ahmad shah baba and yet there has never been a secessionist movement. You sound like one of those Shai Qazil Khorasssani gang then paki.

Bhutto Killing Roils Province, Spurring Call to Quit Pakistan




http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB119974719357173263

"We hate Pakistan," they chanted. "We don't want Pakistan."



"The Punjabi elite treats us as a slave nation, and Sindh as an occupied territory," says Qadir Magsi, head of the nationalist Sindh Taraqi Passand movement. "Benazir Bhutto was the last hope to keep Pakistan united. Now, this Pakistan must be broken apart."

"Many believed that our survival is through the parliamentary system. But now, after the killing, the people realized this is not the case, and that we have to fight," says Ghaffar Bhutto, a Sindhi writer and politician who says he is distantly related to Ms. Bhutto. "We don't need Pakistan, and we no longer see our future in it."

Pulling out an article from 2008, after the assassination of a very illustrious prime minister is pretty stupid. Bhutto's assassination and even Zulfiqar's assassination came as a shock to everyone who supported him. My own mother was crying when she heard the news about Benazir.

I'm not going to bring up people like Abdul Latif Pedram and various others who hold views which can be interpreted as successionist. I'll simply point out, that 'Afghan' means 'Pashtun', in the historical context. If you want to bring up history, the Indus river and the historical boundaries, then I'll remind you that your linguistic boundary ends where the Tajiks become a majority. You have a nation called Afghanistan, even though the majority are not 'Afghans' strictly speaking.

If you want to divide Pakistan on an ethno-linguistic basis, you must also accept that there is no basis for the modern Afghan state. You can't have Hazaras, Tajiks and Uzbeks claiming to be Afghans while we know Afghan = Pashtun. Then, you go ahead and make the argument well, we need to unite the Pashtuns. Well sure! Unite them! What do the Tajiks have to do with this though?

[Golden]

The fact is Pakistan cares a lot and have escalated this from top---the real ruler of Pakistan Raheel. It was regular Pakistani Fuj that attacked Afghan border police forces and yet they got a bloody nose. Even when thanks to Pakis baba Durand pakis enjoy higher ground and battle ground advantage.

You're hilarious, last time I checked Pakistan have not backed off from building gate on border. Everyone knows afghanis fired at pakistani workers first. Pakistan state absolutely don't want to do anything with Afghanistan, they are only interested in sealing the border permanently.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

All of this is an example of the **** that you post. The most likely place you get this information from is your rectum. You can go on about how I don't "speak Pashto" but the truth is that you aren't pro-truth. Whenever something good is mentioned about Pashtuns and Afghans, you're the first person I see who tries to refute them and talk **** about Pashtuns. If you support the Porkistani army or Porkistan, you are supporting the genocide of Pashtuns, Balochis and other ethnic groups, because that's one of the atrocities they've committed. Your only pathetic arguments are claiming that you're favour """""intelligence""""" over anything else, and claiming someone else as "not being Pashtun" (as with what you have done with [MENTION=18277]Afghanfootball[/MENTION]. I've noticed a pattern here with your autism and accusations; if someone is a supporter of Pashtuns/Afghans you're quick to tell them about how they're not "Pashtun").

Well, I'm sorry you don;'t speak Pashto; I suspect you use The New Google Translate Pashto Version because you make a quite a few Grammatical Mistakes. This suggests you haven't even been raised in a Pashto speaking environment. I can tell when someone's Pashto sounds a bit off because I was raised in a Pashto speaking home, but I digress. You also make faulty claims about Afghanistan.

The Fact I refute and challenge your claims and statements is PRECISELY because I'm PRO-TRUTH. The Truth, does not favor one ethnicity or another, the Truth is objective. And I stay objective, regardless of ethnicity.You believe you're being positive; but you base your claims on Dishonesty. Saying superficially "Good Things" on false grounds is more harmful than saying displeasing things based on facts because it misleads and misguides people with false expectations and distorts peoples understanding of reality. It seems them up for being unable to handle the real world.

That's why I talk about the realities of Pashtun history; to break people free from this misguided psychology and direct our efforts on more meaningful things. This is the problem that Pashun wannabes like Yourself and AfghanFootball seem to have; you're always trying to romanticize Pashtuns and Hijack Pashtun history to over compensate for your self esteem issues.

The reason I declare you guys as Non-Pashtun is because you ARE Non-Pashtuns; DID YOU READ the Thread about AfghanFootballs' ANCESTRY?!?!?!?! If you read the thread he traces his lineage to a To a man that comes from Uzbekistan, whose family were Mongols mixed with POSSIBLY Arab Sayyids (although I hold reservation since many false claimants forge their lineages). This is from AFB's father's side by HIS OWN admission.This whole "he was bullied" rant is really projection of Your and AFB's own experiences since neither of you speak Pashto and AFB's bitterness that he ca can't claim being Pashtun since His father comes from Non-Pashtun heritage, and both you want desperately to gain acceptance from Pashtun community. So you think being "Cheerleaders" for anything Pashtun will help get you in.

Also did you see my post where I respond against Firdousi when he suggests Pashtuns are warmongers .....or did you conveniently overlook that too?

About Samandri; like I said READ ALL of his posts. Don't just cherry pick the ones that suit your agenda. Show us one place where he says he claims support for Pakistani Army? He doesn't. and he never has.

[Azmal]

Pulling out an article from 2008, after the assassination of a very illustrious prime minister is pretty stupid. Bhutto's assassination and even Zulfiqar's assassination came as a shock to everyone who supported him. My own mother was crying when she heard the news about Benazir.

I'm not going to bring up people like Abdul Latif Pedram and various others who hold views which can be interpreted as successionist. I'll simply point out, that 'Afghan' means 'Pashtun', in the historical context. If you want to bring up history, the Indus river and the historical boundaries, then I'll remind you that your linguistic boundary ends where the Tajiks become a majority. You have a nation called Afghanistan, even though the majority are not 'Afghans' strictly speaking.

If you want to divide Pakistan on an ethno-linguistic basis, you must also accept that there is no basis for the modern Afghan state. You can't have Hazaras, Tajiks and Uzbeks claiming to be Afghans while we know Afghan = Pashtun. Then, you go ahead and make the argument well, we need to unite the Pashtuns. Well sure! Unite them! What do the Tajiks have to do with this though?

You said Sindhidish movement been death since 1971 but the article I posted proves other--it is active and kicking. I'm not asking to divide anyone I simply want want is rightful ours. Creation of Pakistan was based on two nation theory---Hindu and Muslim being different nation but what did us Pashtuns have to do with it? Why we have to suffer because of your hatred of Hindus? As for as Tajik or others you as Punjabi should not worry about them, they can think for themselves...last I check Ismahil Shia Pedram with Irani wife is calling for Federal system not secession.

[Porus]

You said Sindhidish movement been death since 1971 but the article I posted proves other--it is active and kicking.

It's not though :D have you been to Sindh? Mithi? Tharparkar? Jacobabad? I bet you haven't.

I'm not asking to divide anyone I simply want want is rightful ours.

I'm asking you to act on logic. If the various ethnicities in Pakistan should be divided based on their language, then so should Afghanistan.

Creation of Pakistan was based on two nation theory---Hindu and Muslim being different nation but what did us Pashtuns have to do with it? Why we have to suffer because of your hatred of Hindus?

I don't hate Hindus. I spit on the Pakistani establishment for building this narrative. My own ancestors were Hindus and Sikhs. The Pakistani establishment has no business telling me that India is my enemy. However, if you are concerned with what the Pashtuns of FATA, KPK and Northern Baluchistan want, you have to see what the majority say. I have yet to see a majority of the Pashtunistan areas ask for independence. The day that they do, I will be on their side. Don't even doubt that for a second.

As for as Tajik or others you as Punjabi should not worry about them, they can think for themselves...last I check Ismahil Shia Pedram with Irani wife is calling for Federal system not secession.

Personal attacks are not cool. Disagree with his views, don't bring his wife into it.

[Azmal]

You're hilarious, last time I checked Pakistan have not backed off from building gate on border. Everyone knows afghanis fired at pakistani workers first. Pakistan state absolutely don't want to do anything with Afghanistan, they are only interested in sealing the border permanently.

You said Afghanistan backed yet when I ask for sources you go into your typical paki antics...it was Pakistan that fired after Afghans troops went in to stop the construction of wall...this is how the first Afghan border police was killed. In return Afghan force return fire and 20 of your troops were wounded and one Major killed. Keep in mind the fact that thanks to your Saheeb east of Durand is higher ground strategically and still the ragtag Afghan border police has give your Fuj a blood nose--including killing one of your officers.

[Azmal]

It's not though :D have you been to Sindh? Mithi? Tharparkar? Jacobabad? I bet you haven't.

That is beside the point...this is what you claim "Btw: Sindhudesh movement is like lol. No one's heard of it since 1971."
The article I posted proves it otherwise, there are active and kicking, mind you even the Muhajir of Karachi wants to break from Pakistan.

I'm asking you to act on logic. If the various ethnicities in Pakistan should be divided based on their language, then so should Afghanistan

.

It is not about ethnic or language, it is about illegal occupation of our land and people. I repeat we simply want what is rightful ours!

I don't hate Hindus. I spit on the Pakistani establishment for building this narrative. My own ancestors were Hindus and Sikhs. The Pakistani establishment has no business telling me that India is my enemy. However, if you are concerned with what the Pashtuns of FATA, KPK and Northern Baluchistan want, you have to see what the majority say. I have yet to see a majority of the Pashtunistan areas ask for independence. The day that they do, I will be on their side. Don't even doubt that for a second.

The hate of Hindu is what keeps Pakistan intact, you take out the hatred and there is no reason for Pakistan to exists. Lets have a referendum in Pashtunistan...this is what Afghanistan been asking even before creation of Pakistan. This is what Khan Abdul Wali khan writes in his book.

” For their part the Khudai Khidmatgars decided that if the British were insistent on holding the plebiscite despite the general acceptance that NWFP would go to Pakistan, then following the same principle of self-determination the province should also have the freedom to a third option, of an in dependent Pukhtoonistan. Mountbatten, however, refused to include this alternative. The Khudai Khidmatgars then decided that since between the available two options the decision had already been taken and the referendum was there fore pointless they would boycott it” Any referendum is only meaningful if it gives a meaningful valid choice to the electorate. Here we are seeing that the demand of the most popular political party who had won an election and was in government in the state was ignored. It was solely being conducted to give the Muslim League a political credibility in NWFP. It was boycotted by a major political force. It was any thing but fair.

Personal attacks are not cool. Disagree with his views, don't bring his wife into it.

I'm not attacking him, I'm simply point to the fact about him, having an Irani wife or being an Ismahil Shia is not an insult...but as a public figure these background are necessary in order to understand his political aspiration. It is like this Pakistani Christian convert Nabil Qurishi who was an Ex Ahmadi but is trying hard to portray himself as ex-Suni Muslims.. or how Christian missionary in Islamic countries are using Arabic Allah to refer to God in all of their local language publication…which is meant to deceive people. I have nothing against people political views or their religion or even if they want to convert.