What would 'Great Afghanistan' actually look like?

[DSM0305]

Anything which end in Pur and desh are hindu names.

There may be some places in Afghanistan, but I doubt there is ''many'' as you claim.

[Porus]

Kid, why are you misquoting me? well anyway, whether it was a misquote or not, you just proved yourself wrong. Accepting the fact that their culture is no different than ours. If you're not up to a debate, than I fail to see why you try, when you just give in so fast, lol.

You're not even debating me. You're just calling me a kid from the West as if you know anything about my life or who I am. That was your FIRST response to this post.

Ghaznaviyan, Ghoriyan, Samaniyan, Saffariyan, Khwarazmshahiyan, Timuriyan, Safaviyan, Afshariyan = Persianate Empires which have ruled Afghanistan since the advent of Islam. Before them, the area was ruled by a series of pre-Islamic PERSIAN and Indian Empires. Within these empires, many of the major centres of learning were in the northern cities of modern-day Afghanistan and sometimes in India (Lahore & Dehli).

Northern Afghanistan was known as Khorasan for centuries.

Still going to deny that the people up north are Persians? Their language is Persian, they have last names according to their city of birth (a very Persian tradition). Countless other things.

If you want to sit there and believe that people from the north are just Persianised Pashtuns, or immigrants from Tajikistan then that's your issue. Tajiks were much more ahead in civilisation than Pashtuns were which is why scientists, chemists, mathematicians and poets came from their end of the hood and not yours.


Now prove what I'm saying wrong, with facts for once

What makes you think it sounds Hindu?

Kamdesh sounds pretty Hindu too me. Kamlesh, Ramesh, Kamdesh Rama rama ding ding

[Golden]

There may be some places in Afghanistan, but I doubt there is ''many'' as you claim.

We will know once google update Afghanistan map. At the moment only large cities or medium sized towns are named, villages are not. Likely many names have survived post Islam and many others changed over time.

[Golden]

I
Even the most hardcore Pakistanis will disagree with you. Whether it is clothes, food, behavior, language everything is different. It is even widely accepted by Pakistanis themselves. That being said, I fail to see the reason you bring Pakistan into the discussion. Well, that what happens when you open a thread where you have nothing to back yourself up with. Then people tend to throw random topics in, lol.

.

Actually rural Pakistan is pretty similar all over apart from languages in my experience.

[DSM0305]

You're not even debating me. You're just calling me a kid from the West as if you know anything about my life or who I am. That was your FIRST response to this post.

Ghaznaviyan, Ghoriyan, Samaniyan, Saffariyan, Khwarazmshahiyan, Timuriyan, Safaviyan, Afshariyan = Persianate Empires which have ruled Afghanistan since the advent of Islam. Before them, the area was ruled by a series of pre-Islamic PERSIAN and Indian Empires. Within these empires, many of the major centres of learning were in the northern cities of modern-day Afghanistan and sometimes in India (Lahore & Dehli).

Northern Afghanistan was known as Khorasan for centuries.

Still going to deny that the people up north are Persians? Their language is Persian, they have last names according to their city of birth (a very Persian tradition). Countless other things.

If you want to sit there and believe that people from the north are just Persianised Pashtuns, or immigrants from Tajikistan then that's your issue. Tajiks were much more ahead in civilisation than Pashtuns were which is why scientists, chemists, mathematicians and poets came from their end of the hood and not yours.


Now prove what I'm saying wrong, with facts for once

You're changing goalpost. Whether Persians or Indians, whoever hell had an empire in modern day Afghanistan. It doesn't change the fact that the culture is the same throughout Afghanistan today.
Whether you discuss with your imaginary friend or not, is none of my business. Yes, I am referring to your statement regarding persianized Pashtuns or migrated tajiks, or whatever you claimed, because I haven't said anything regarding that. Apparently your imaginary friend must have discussed this issue with you, for I am quite certain I haven't mentioned it.

I know more about you than I need. People can determined a person from their behavior and opinion when they write a text. First thing that can be determined is whether the person have been to the place he is blatantly discussing. In your case, you haven't.

You're bringing past empires and achievement that has nothing to do with the debate or the discussion. Which is the reason why one have to know a bare minimum regarding the subject, before they so blatantly make a topic. You have no substance to showcase and backup your claims, that why you're trying to change the subject to empires, Pakistan and god knows what else.

To make sure you don't runaway from the actual topic in hand. Then I will gladly tell you what we're discussing; we're discussing whether the culture in Afghanistan is the same throughout the country or not. You made an idiotic claim that apparently Pashtuns and non-Pashtuns in Afghanistan have a different culture. Now go ahead and show some evidence.

I can in almost certainty guarantee anyone that the culture in Afghanistan is exactly the same. The only difference that may exist in Afghanistan is regarding rural and urban population. Otherwise the culture isn't differentiated in any other way. I have had the opportunity to walk throughout most of Afghanistan and had the pleasure of experiencing Afghan cities.
Those who haven't and don't have the opportunity, they can easily watch videos or pictures in the Internet of all different cities. And I challenge them to find a ''different culture'' amidst those cities.

People dress the same, people eat the same, people behave the same, people have the same traditions. Whoever claims this isn't the same culture, he must have been dropped as a baby.

[DSM0305]

Actually rural Pakistan is pretty similar all over apart from languages in my experience.

If you go to the rural part of eastern Pakistan, then go to the rural part of western Pakistan, you will experience a pretty huge difference.
behavior, dress, foods, literally everything.
I will even go as far and say, if someones isn't familiar with each others culture, he actually will be needing to do some research to not offend the other part when socially interacting with each other.

It may be hard for some people to personally experience those countries, both Afghanistan and Pakistan, but I will highly recommend searching for videos and picture in the internet to get an idea of the different cultures. You be quite shocked the huge difference between the culture of rural Pashtuns compared to other Pakistani ethnicities.

This isn't necessary a bad thing to have different cultures in a country, but the cultural difference is undoubtful huge.

[Golden]

It may be hard for some people to personally experience those countries, both Afghanistan and Pakistan, but I will highly recommend searching for videos and picture in the internet to get an idea of the different cultures. You be quite shocked the huge difference between the culture of rural Pashtuns compared to other Pakistani ethnicities.
e.

Can you post some videos so we get better idea what you mean?

[DSM0305]

Can you post some videos so we get better idea what you mean?

Search for Pashtuns, then search for Punjabi. There isn't any rocket science behind it.
What I mean is that Pashtun culture is different than the ethnicity of other part of Pakistan, especially those of rural Pashtuns. This can be indicated by the fact that their social behavior is different, traditions are different, food is different, clothes are different, their value is different; basically everything is different. Ergo the culture is different.
Pakistani Pashtun culture is the same as those of Afghans. And I am pretty sure we all can agree on, that the culture of Afghans and Pakistanis is not the same.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Damn here we have to read same BS posts about how hazaras and tajiks living in same small area are culturarly and ethnically different yet 1.5 billion Pakistanis and Indians are similar.

Indian wedding



Pakistani wedding




Hard to tell the difference.

[Golden]

Search for Pashtuns, then search for Punjabi. There isn't any rocket science behind it.
What I mean is that Pashtun culture is different than the ethnicity of other part of Pakistan, especially those of rural Pashtuns. This can be indicated by the fact that their social behavior is different, traditions are different, food is different, clothes are different, their value is different; basically everything is different. Ergo the culture is different.
Pakistani Pashtun culture is the same as those of Afghans. And I am pretty sure we all can agree on, that the culture of Afghans and Pakistanis is not the same.

What I meant cloths and food seem pretty similar but not 100% same going from one place to another in Pakistan, didn't mention Afghanistan. This is what I noticed.

Though I have only visited KPK and FATA and not Balochistan. Majority of afghani refugee I have seen wear cloths like this

[Porus]

[MENTION=8995]DSM0305[/MENTION]

Fine. Tajiks follow Pashtunwali, Hazaras, Uzbeks, Turkmen all follow the Pashtun code. There's no difference in culture at all. In fact, Afghanistan is completely homogeneous. It's not a multi-cultural society.

[Aryana]

[MENTION=18484]Porus[/MENTION]
You really don't know about either Tajik or Pashtun history. Of course, the majority of Afghan Pashtuns do speak Persian, and Pashtuns have also spoken Persian in the past. There is no denying that.

Samanids? The Samanids were a Persian empire, who goes to say that they're Tajik? The first mention of the word "Tajik" was around the 12th century, since "Tajik" was used by the Turks. Save yourself some embarrassment and know to not get confused with Persian and Tajik.

Another point you made was that it was always under Persian or Mughal sovereignty. What time in history is your narrow-minded thinking limited to? That only happened for about a hundred years, and even then no force whether it be Persian or Mughal could actually control Afghanistan. Why do you think we have our culture still when, according to your view, we were always ruled by foreign forces? Look a how developed and strong the Tajiks are, they live in such a mountainous area yet they were conquered so easily by Russians. You're Indian aren't you? To say that is just as ignorant as saying that India has never existed in history and was only created in the 40s.

EDIT: You happened to mention in another post that Tajiks are Persian (or that the north is Persian). Yes, yes, you're very right (sarcasm). Just to and look at someone from the """Persian""" north, they're usually indistinguishable from a Mongolian person. To say that they're Persian is as logical and intelligent as saying English-speaking Aboriginals are Anglo Saxon because they speak English.

[Porus]

Samanids? The Samanids were a Persian empire, who goes to say that they're Tajik? The first mention of the word "Tajik" was around the 12th century, since "Tajik" was used by the Turks. Save yourself some embarrassment and know to not get confused with Persian and Tajik.

Tajik is the Turkish word for a Persian-speaking person, usually within the confines of Central Asia as opposed to West Asia in Iran. Refer to [Ali Shir Nava'i Muhakamat al-lughatain] In essence Persians and Tajiks are the same people with slight variations in dialect.

Samaniyan stands out more than the others because unlike the Ghaznavids or Timurids, or even the Afshariyan, the Samaniyan were native Persians. Not Persian speaking Turks. Also the currency of Tajikistan is Samoni, King Ismail ibn Ahmad is celebrated as a Tajik/Persian emperor in Tajikistan. His statue is located in Dushanbeh.

I'm not Indian. All I said was, Pashtuns did not have a dynasty within Afghanistan until the 1700s. The Persianate empires were there long before the Pashtun kings. Additionally Indians have had several empires in the absence of foreign Muslim armies.

You happened to mention in another post that Tajiks are Persian (or that the north is Persian). Yes, yes, you're very right (sarcasm). Just to and look at someone from the """Persian""" north, they're usually indistinguishable from a Mongolian person. To say that they're Persian is as logical and intelligent as saying English-speaking Aboriginals are Anglo Saxon because they speak English.

To quote an Iranian friend of mine, and I think this is very true as well: there is no such thing as an ethnic Persian. Persians are not homogenous in their physical appearance. Rather they're bounded by their language and a common culture (Nowruz, Chaharshambeh Soori, and Persian poetry). The Persians that you are possibly referring to, are the white/caucasians. Those Persians rarely exist any more. Persians as per the vast majority are heavily mixed with Arab and Turko-Mongol blood, as are pretty much everyone else in this region. The Tajiks in northern Afghanistan would conceivably look a lot like Uzbeks, since they have lived around Uzbeks for centuries. Though, I have a Tajik friend and he doesn't look anything like an Uzbek.

[Aryana]

[MENTION=18484]Porus[/MENTION]

Time and time again, Tajiks didn't have an empire. The Samanids were Persian, their court language was Persian, etc. Kushans, Bactrians, etc were of Pashtun origin. To say that there has been no Pashtun empire before 1700s is as ignorant as saying there was no India before independence.

[Win Butler]

LOL Porus is owning you idiots. Aryana, you must be an Indian pretending to be Pashtun. Your comments about Tajiks prove what a filthy uninformed cretin you are.