punjab army destroying houses of FATA resident for entertainment

[Bengal_Tiger]

Relatively speaking they are not villians and evil beings. As a person they might be better human beings than you and me. They at least joined this forum and confronted some heavy doses of criticism. Some of them are more contributing to Pashto than any member here, for instance Arooj is very talented and is a pashto poetess. Son of Mountains ran a forum of his own and learnt pashto even though he was a seraiki speaker. Sokaniwal , a very staunch pro-pakistani pashtun, runs pakhtoogle website. I would never prefer a foul-mouthed , useless and bigoted nationalist like [MENTION=1068]gadoonwal[/MENTION] over the above mentioned gentlemen.

You expect Pashtuns to rise against Punjabis like your Bengalis in 1971, thats not going to happen, i can sense your growing frustration at behavior and apparent insensitivity of Pashtuns. I can tell you one thing , Pakistan army is no longer loved and respected in pashtun belt, pashtuns see them just like police. Pashtuns are not centralized nor they follow any strong convincing separatist movement with strong ideology and philosophy.

In Pashtun society, the word qaumi means tribal, from this you can guess the level of nationhood among Pashtuns. A Marwat , Bhittani, or Khattak dont see any reason for going against powerful army but he vividly remembers the history of invasions of wazirs and mehsuds on his lands. Same was the case in British times, Bhittanis sided with British against their historical enemies Mehsuds. Wazirs and Mehsuds didnt bother to intervene when their these neighbors were getting beaten by Sikhs. Its not a nation, its a collection of tribes.

Luffy, I am not "impatient", just curious to be honest.

[MENTION=8995]DSM0305[/MENTION] made a couple of posts recently where he said that it is totally up to Pakistan's Pashtuns to decide what they wish to do.

This is an internal matter for them.



However that doesn't mean outside observers can't express their opinions, just as I'm sure we all have opinions on Obama, what's happening in Russia and events all over the world.

Aside from those users I mentioned (just some random examples not that important in themselves) the point is Pakistan's Pashtuns are pro-Pakistan.

That's totally fine if it that makes them happy.

But then coming on to a forum and highlighting Pakistan army atrocities seems to be making no impact as it hasn't for the past 5 years.

I am just curious as to why there is such a non-reaction in contrast to:

- 17 people get killed in Paris, the whole world is stopped.

- A few MQM people get killed in Karachi some times and then the whole of Karachi would be bought to a stand still.

- Something displeases Sindhi nationalist, the whole of Sindh (bar Karachi) is bought to a stand still.




....


1 million Pashtuns are made homeless......no reaction.


I am just curious.


You've said it's lack of centralization. Ok, fair enough. I'm here to learn so I ask questions. I don't claim to be an expert on these affairs so I ask someone (like you) who is, or at least knows more than I do.

[Smarty]

Luffy, I am not "impatient", just curious to be honest.

@DSM0305 made a couple of posts recently where he said that it is totally up to Pakistan's Pashtuns to decide what they wish to do.

This is an internal matter for them.



However that doesn't mean outside observers can't express their opinions, just as I'm sure we all have opinions on Obama, what's happening in Russia and events all over the world.

Aside from those users I mentioned (just some random examples not that important in themselves) the point is Pakistan's Pashtuns are pro-Pakistan.

That's totally fine if it that makes them happy.

But then coming on to a forum and highlighting Pakistan army atrocities seems to be making no impact as it hasn't for the past 5 years.

I am just curious as to why there is such a non-reaction in contrast to:

- 17 people get killed in Paris, the whole world is stopped.

- A few MQM people get killed in Karachi some times and then the whole of Karachi would be bought to a stand still.

- Something displeases Sindhi nationalist, the whole of Sindh (bar Karachi) is bought to a stand still.




....


1 million Pashtuns are made homeless......no reaction.


I am just curious.


You've said it's lack of centralization. Ok, fair enough. I'm here to learn so I ask questions. I don't claim to be an expert on these affairs so I ask someone (like you) who is, or at least knows more than I do.

Its because Pashtuns are used to violence , murders are common and norm, war is just an excited phase. If Taliban blow up dozens of people and army kills dozens of people in retaliatory air strikes. Only the family members and related people mourn over these deaths, the rest are busy in their own lives.

In case some one is humiliated and insulted by a fauji, he would take the revenge on his own without involving others, thats how our society works, very individualistic in this sense.

[tripledouble]

easy man, were you not the pathan like imran khan , hindko speaking tareen or some thing from hazara?......why you are so getting worked up for punjabis and sindhis against pathans of your own catagory like Niazis?.....play your character better

I already told everybody i am mixed

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showpost.php?p=741852&postcount=7

my point is, toramana say niazis are not pashtun, which make no sense because they are proud even prouder than tareens, i mean, imran khan always brag about being pashtun, but did ayub khan care?nope, he was fine with just being hindkowan.

You ask any hindko-speaking pashtun, he will support sooba hazara, but if you ask niazi from mianwali, he will support to join kpk, they want to attach more with their ancestry than us...

[tripledouble]

No, it's a perfect representation of what's been happening to Pashtuns and Baloch for decades. Wherever that cursed flag flies, you will see misery and destruction.

destruction

[tripledouble]

Smarty,

Pashtun forums has been here for 5 years now, for half a decade.

In that time there have been many threads highlighting the brutality and evil of the Pakistani army.

Do Pakistani Pashtuns care?

I don't know but I don't think so.

However let's look at this forum, do you think of these Pakistani "Pashtuns" (Pathans) would care and criticize the Pakistan army? This includes people who have left the forum.

- Arooj Khan

- Lahore Mazdigar

- Shebaz Khan

- Nokia Apridey

- Son of Mountains

- NaveedSafi


I really don't think so.

Imagine you tagged some of them, do you think they would care?

Remember you're not even asking them to condemn the state or nation of Pakistan but just the army.

They wouldn't.

Many Americans would with ease condemn or criticize their army if they saw it did immoral actions as for them it is an organ of the American government but does not represent America itself i.e. it is not the nation.

Just to give you an example, Nokia Apridey was a Khyberwatch member and was on this forum in its early years when there were far more threads showing the barbarism of the Pakistan army. This is his new facebook cover.




Until Pashtuns become more politicized and pro-active in asserting Pashtun rights within (or outside) the federation of Pakistan this will continue.

americans are very nationalistics, the average joe is proud of their army and supports them to the core, don't be fooled by few liberals living in big cities who travel a lot, average redneck christain fundo don't care.

[Smarty]

I already told everybody i am mixed

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showpos...52&postcount=7

my point is, toramana say niazis are not pashtun, which make no sense because they are proud even prouder than tareens, i mean, imran khan always brag about being pashtun, but did ayub khan care?nope, he was fine with just being hindkowan.

You ask any hindko-speaking pashtun, he will support sooba hazara, but if you ask niazi from mianwali, he will support to join kpk, they want to attach more with their ancestry than us...

Proud Pashtuns/Pathans but still speak Seraiki. Language changes every thing about you no matter how much racially pure you are. When you sing folk songs of Seraiki, when you do poetry in seraiki when you use seraiki proverbs...........you no longer have ways and mannerism of pashtuns. Niazis are proud part of our history but the ones in Mianwali are no longer part of our nation, not even politically. If a Niazi consider himself part of pashtun qaum, then we welcome him.

That target killer of MQM, Saulat Mirza (real name saulat Ali Khan) is yusufzai pathan from india by origin, he says this in his confessional video, the old one. The Urdu Pathans do MQM politics and are the enemies of the qaum of their ancestors.

[tripledouble]

Luffy, I am not "impatient", just curious to be honest.

[MENTION=8995]DSM0305[/MENTION] made a couple of posts recently where he said that it is totally up to Pakistan's Pashtuns to decide what they wish to do.

This is an internal matter for them.



However that doesn't mean outside observers can't express their opinions, just as I'm sure we all have opinions on Obama, what's happening in Russia and events all over the world.

Aside from those users I mentioned (just some random examples not that important in themselves) the point is Pakistan's Pashtuns are pro-Pakistan.

That's totally fine if it that makes them happy.

But then coming on to a forum and highlighting Pakistan army atrocities seems to be making no impact as it hasn't for the past 5 years.

I am just curious as to why there is such a non-reaction in contrast to:

- 17 people get killed in Paris, the whole world is stopped.

- A few MQM people get killed in Karachi some times and then the whole of Karachi would be bought to a stand still.

- Something displeases Sindhi nationalist, the whole of Sindh (bar Karachi) is bought to a stand still.




....


1 million Pashtuns are made homeless......no reaction.


I am just curious.


You've said it's lack of centralization. Ok, fair enough. I'm here to learn so I ask questions. I don't claim to be an expert on these affairs so I ask someone (like you) who is, or at least knows more than I do.

i have observe anti-pakistanism rising among pashtuns on social media, the facebook page 'Justice for Pashtuns' is getting popular, they usual post some facts but also mix it with propaganda and half-truths to achieve their aims, which is fine.

there are many active pashtunists on twitter like nazrana yusufzai,shahid qazi, and other active pashtun journalists/writers who tweet constantly against pakistan,pak army and punjab, it's very common, i follow at least 100 such accounts, same thing on facebook.

i've observed comments on news sites from pashtuns, i've followed twitter accounts of ordinary pashtuns including teens living in west, who have a victim mindset and resent pakistan, i don't know where u find pak loving pashtuns, maybe only 5%, 95% are against pak.

in real life, most are nice people, but i met at least a few anti state ones, i know many who consier jinnah a kafir and cheer for afghan cricket team when they play pak.

my 2 paisas.

[Smarty]

i have observe anti-pakistanism rising among pashtuns on social media, the facebook page 'Justice for Pashtuns' is getting popular, they usual post some facts but also mix it with propaganda and half-truths to achieve their aims, which is fine.

there are many active pashtunists on twitter like nazrana yusufzai,shahid qazi, and other active pashtun journalists/writers who tweet constantly against pakistan,pak army and punjab, it's very common, i follow at least 100 such accounts, same thing on facebook.

i've observed comments on news sites from pashtuns, i've followed twitter accounts of ordinary pashtuns including teens living in west, who have a victim mindset and resent pakistan, i don't know where u find pak loving pashtuns, maybe only 5%, 95% are against pak.

in real life, most are nice people, but i met at least a few anti state ones, i know many who consier jinnah a kafir and cheer for afghan cricket team when they play pak.

my 2 paisas.

Most are human beings with human necessaties, care less about flags and wardis..................

[tilla_jogian]

You know him very well, he is a "multi-banned" and multi-id user, recent id is save_ghenda.........He is nice guy in my opinion, i have learnt a lot from him on defence.pk. He is obviously trolling here but there he is o.k. You and me know that there are worst kind of pakistanis there with very negative views about pashtuns in general and tribals and afghans in particular, save_ghenda is not among them.

Samndri jee I am save_ghenda.. I visit this forum few times to read posts This forum is not very active so I didn't post much. Let alone creating multuple ids to troll. This is my first post after registering in may 2014.

So nope, I am not tripledouble guy. You can ask admin.

[tilla_jogian]

When people say 25% are Pashtun they don't just mean the 15% from KPK/FATA/Quetta but also Pashtun origin peoples outside pashtun areas.

The Niazis,Durranis,Kasuris,Tareens,Lodhis,Rokhris,Tan olis,Burkis,Multanis etc and in AJK the kakezais and sadozais are included, so pure pashtuns are only 15% but Pashtun descended people from Punjab,AJK and maybe Muhajir Pathans are included in the 25-30%.

so it isn't far off.

Sudhans are probably pashtuns decendents, since most of them claim it on internet so I have no reason to doubt it. Tareens are also pashtuns.

But kakezai do not have charasteristics of pashtuns at all or for that matter any rural zamindar tribe of punjab. They are punjabi trading caste converted from hinduism, mostly live in urban centers of punjab. And from internet users of kakezai origin, most of them identify as just punjabis.

[tripledouble]

Samndri jee I am save_ghenda.. I visit this forum few times to read posts This forum is not very active so I didn't post much. Let alone creating multuple ids to troll. This is my first post after registering in may 2014.

So nope, I am not tripledouble guy. You can ask admin.

lol he thought i was u

[tilla_jogian]

ISPR states it at 14.3% which sounds reasonble compared to 25%, <10% sounds too little, and the Frontier corps are almost entirely pashtun, so you can't deny that.

Army is mostly dominated by us Hindkowans/Potoharis. The central Punjabis come after us.


then what are they?They are so proud and racist towards non pashtuns; Imran Khan in his own rally insulted Sindis and Punjabis, calling them cowards and slaves and he always glorify Afghans -these people are proud Pashtun and believe in pashtun supremacy, that's why Imran Khan easily win in KPK but hardly wins in central Punjab.

Punjabis don't accept Niazis,Duranis etc, because they came as invaders a la Haibat Khan Niazi.

The Seraiki sooba movement is also supported by Pukhtun/Baloch tribes in janoobi punjab, so punjabi are vary of them.

I am from central punjab which include Gujranwala/Lahore/Faisalabad divisions or known as majha region and by some others known as real punjabis. Mianwali people are not even punjabis but hindkos. If we go in to details. And you are wrong about military recruits as well

''Punjab shows an overall decline in recruitment of soldiers from 63.86 per cent in 1991 to 43.33 in 2005, with Central Punjab outpacing Northern Punjab, the traditional recruitment ground, by 7,500 to 5,000 recruits in 2005. Southern Punjab had 1,800 recruits. The NWFP and FATA increased from 20.91 per cent to 22.43 per cent, Sindh rose from 8.85 per cent to 23.02 per cent, with rural Sindh accounting for the majority of the recruits (5,095 to 2,500 in 2005), Baluchistan rose from 0.49 per cent to 1.52 per cent in 2005 with 200 urban to 300 rural recruits in 2005, and Azad Kashmir and the Northern Areas rising from 5.86 per cent to 9.70 per cent.''

''Comparing the periods 1970 and 1990-2006, we also see a change in the relative share of officers recruited from different parts of the country. The Punjab rose marginally from 66.46 per cent to 66.93, but within the Punjab there are notable changes in the home districts of the officers shifting to the more populous and emerging urban centres of Central and even Southern Punjab. This is in line with rapid urbanization trends nationwide. Dramatically, the army recruited more officers in the decade ending 2005 from Karachi than from Jhelum!''

This was decade ago, now one can imagine recuits are even more based on population density of certain areas. Current COAS and ISI chief are central punjabis. Anyway I don't find IK racist but ignorant in certain things. He is good men and probably only financially non-corrupt politician in Pakistan.

And its not about considiring someone punjabi or not, people in central punjab are mostly hard core Pakistani nationalist. Being punjabi is unknown here, people in rural areas identify with their own tribes. So you will not find language based nationalism like in hindko or seraiki areas.

[Black Pakistani]

All of you filthy Afghan refugee rats that constantly try to divide our Pakistan will be exterminated and I guarantee this.

We Pakhtuns of Pakistan love our country but these Afghan rats try to create hatred.

Anyone on this forum badmouthing Pakistan can meet me in person and I will show you the consequences of doing so.

Bengal Tiger, you are a good man but stop insulting my country every chance you get.

[Black Pakistani]

All of you filthy Afghan refugee rats that constantly try to divide our Pakistan will be exterminated and I guarantee this.

We Pakhtuns of Pakistan love our country but these Afghan rats try to create hatred.

Anyone on this forum badmouthing Pakistan can meet me in person and I will show you the consequences of doing so.

Bengal Tiger, you are a good man but stop insulting my country every chance you get.

This is not directed towards Afghans in general, just the people on this forum.

[Toramana]

Hello All.

I by mistake included Niazis. I don't know much about them but it sounds to me they have retained the typical Pashtun tribal structure (e.g., Shaman Khel, Issa Khel, ...) probably also many typical Pashtun traditions and customs; therefore, they may be an exception.

I think Niazis also live in one consolidated geographical enclave so they are genuinely Pashtuns.

As for Lodhis and others living deep inside Punjab for many centuries, they have long forgotten the language as well as Pashtun tribal consciousness and association. So they cannot be accepted as Pashtuns.

Now how can Hamayun Akhtar Khan be accepted a Pashtun?