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  • #46
    Originally posted by Toramana View Post
    Barakzai Abdali, I don't think you have more concern for Pukhtuns than for Al-Queda grass. Rest, why are you lambasting settled area Pukhtuns? They and their leadership did what they could. The problem is, in FATA itself we have canines like Da Bannu who can prey on his own people for a few bones thrown to him.

    By the way the most un-Pukhtun area in all the Pukhtun Land is Bannu with the adjoining Karak that have been serving whoever in power in the center of the empire whether British Mughals, etc. loyally since British times.
    I am not lambasting them as people, I am lambasting their inability to see through jingoistic propaganda. I provided the example above of the man I encountered who somehow had admiration for both Bhutto and Musharraf despite the hatred between the two for each other. I picked up on it right away that this must have been the programming on the air and television waves.

    If you mean by your leaders - then you are either joking or lying since they were the biggest proponents of interventionalism by way of drones.

    Regarding Karak and Bannu, I would be careful dismissing their Pashtun identity since Wazir and Khattak tribesman have migrated back and forth to pasture lands in these areas. During the British era conflageration Wazir tribal maliks receded into Bannu when they needed to.

    Regarding my sympathies and regarding yours - Let me give you a misaal. There are physicians and there are quacks. The former is diagnostician, and the latter is an alchemist at best. In some poor areas of Pashtun lands there are people who hand out tawizoona for cleft lip and things that the evidence based person will know full well cannot treat the cleft lip. The Quack may himself even believe in his power of taweez, or he may have a subspecialty in snake oil selling. Either way, one sees aright and the other is wrong.

    Let me show you how the world is interpreting your brand of quackery in recent years. There is a group of you I have been watching for some time now and enjoyed debunking: Farhat Taj Anderson, mentally handicapped Muhammad Taqi, Khadim Hussein etc on the one side of the border and clowns like Ahmad Shuja on the other. Each of you has their own personal agenda and has formed failed "think-thanks" as fronts for peddling your nonsense to the world regarding cause and effect.

    Let us see what the latest commentary on the now defunct AIRRA has been:

    A complicit government in Pakistan, enabled by US interlocutors, continues to support US drone strikes.


    A small section of the Pakistani intelligentsia, mainly writing for the English language press, approves of the drone attacks. These are the only voices that the western media generally picks up. Their support is predicated on the drones' supposed accuracy and popularity. All these claims, without exception, rely on a single source: the Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy, a letter head organization of dubious provenance. Its public face, Farhat Taj, is a zany middle-aged graduate student with a reputation for preposterous claims based on unnamed – many suspect invented – interlocutors. But neither the source's credibility nor common sense has proved a barrier to Pakistan's liberal hawks invoking its authority to support their calls for greater violence.

    Irfan Husain, a columnist for Dawn, makes a case for 'more drone attacks, not less.' Husain (who once served on the advisory board of an Israel lobby astroturf operation campaigning for the normalization of relations between Pakistan and Israel) bases his claim on the pronouncements of 'Dr Farhat Taj'. (The curious elevation of Taj's status to 'Dr' suggests that Husain is aware he is skating on thin ice.) He quotes her as saying that the 'ordinary people in FATA are delighted' by and 'feel comfortable with the drone attacks'. 'They would welcome anyone,' she adds, 'Americans, Israelis, Indians or even the devil to rid them of the Taliban and Al Qaeda.' To Husain, this 'makes perfect sense'. And sceptics -- such as the media, Imran Khan, or two-thirds of the Pakistani public -- are on the other hand merely 'acting as cheerleaders for these terrorists.'
    In yet another article:
    The US government, and a pliant mainstream media, are making sure the public remain ignorant of civilian casualties.


    As a matter of fact, the only known survey "on the ground in FATA" at the time was carried out by a "letterhead organisation" named the Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy whose conclusions can fairly be described as deeply unreliable and dubious. It claimed that 55 per cent of respondents in a survey it carried out in "parts of FATA that are often hit by American drones" (among which it curiously included Parachinar, which has never been hit and whose overwhelmingly Shia population is deeply hostile to the virulently anti-Shia Taliban) did not think that the attacks caused "fear and terror in the common people"; 52 per cent found them "accurate in their strikes"; and 58 per cent did not think they increased anti-Americanism.
    Basically, my concern and empathy rests with all the people of the world who have to put up with internecine people with an obviously shady agenda such as the groups you collaborate with to hasten, foment, and sustain interventionalism to suit your needs and desires that are completely out of touch with reality, history, and the facts.

    Your cabal has generated a series of half truths that generally apply better to your selves than anyone else and has generated more radicalism due to mis-steps being taken from your advice then any madrassah in existence. These are namely:

    1) Local Muslim populations in neocolonialized nations have little regard for their own religion, but the West out of thin air, created religious movements to make sure that these nations would not become bastions of Hollywood and the brothels you think they ought to be.

    2) Radicalism is the cause and not the effect as if, for instance, the radicals had any hold on society before your brand of Soviet interventionists entered Afghanistan. You rarely read the ground level data or the words of any and all parties to see what the actual gripes and motivations are for radicalization - instead you throw fuel on the fire.

    3) The language of resistance, which often is clothed in the language of religion in the middle east and in south and central Asia is Arabization.

    Not an iota of proof exists to buttress these claims and the fact that "evidence" has to be generated or biased to produce the desired narrative as we see in the Parachinar example provided above.

    For years you and your ilk were shell shocked at the collapse of your prior logic masters and then, like parasites, you quickly hopped onto the back of the master that took down your prior one.

    In that bygone anti Soviet era you generated mythology that stated with certainty that resistance fighters and the US had exactly aligned goals, yet when your group benefited and advocated for the drone campaigns that have hit civilians galore you sneered "we take up with wherever the benefit is and of course we will utilize another entities fire power if it suits our needs and so on and so forth." Not realizing that this smashed your illogical claims since your adversary groups did exactly the same thing, but simply did it with greater success than you did.

    No no my friend, do not feign support for the Pashtuns of FATA when just years before you were backing a dubious author in her idiotic claims and faulty data to justify the killings that Clive Stafford Smith and others have now validated with hard evidence.
    Last edited by BarakzaiAbdali; 06-22-2014, 08:43 PM.
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

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    • #47
      ^ So basically you are telling me that if the so called Pakistani talibans kill the innocent civilians in Pakistan is right?

      No it's not. Just because somebody robs me doesn't give me the right to rob another person going on the road.
      yao warokay ghwandi baagh ao pa khwa ye seen rawan!

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Shehbaz Khan View Post
        ^ So basically you are telling me that if the so called Pakistani talibans kill the innocent civilians in Pakistan is right?

        No it's not. Just because somebody robs me doesn't give me the right to rob another person going on the road.
        No I am saying the reason it initiated and the one who set it in motion (see the case of Hayathullah Wazir above) is the Pakistan military and intelligence. This is due to Pakistan killing innocent civilians in the initial. The sad case of Wazir exposing their activities and their help in coordinating attacks that led to civilian deaths is an example of what was the match that lit the fuse.

        And as Dr. Pape notes above, 75% of the targets done by the militants were military targets subsequently which is a far more accurate rate and a more targeted approach than the carpet bombing campaigns and no name individuals and "militants" that Pakistani forces claim to kill.

        You are acting as if Pakistan can operate with impunity, using high resolution weaponry and not releasing the names of the involved military and intelligence personnel to kill people and still claim the moral high ground when their less well equipped adversary responds in kind.

        Pakistan purposefully bans reporters and outside information gatherers for this very reason.

        Clive Stafford Smith of Reprieve has documented drone civilian deaths (coordinated with the Pakistani military and intelligence agencies) and others like human rights watch have documented Pakistani Military Aggression.

        In short, you reap what you sow and if you knew your own people you would clearly have seen what was coming. Your military had no reason to send 100,000 men into FATA to act as a prostitute in the first place and as a mercenary against its own people.

        So in summary, Ill pose the same question to you, with the nouns changed:

        "So basically you are telling me that if the so called Pakistani Mercenary Army kill the innocent civilians in FATA that is right?

        No it's not. Just because somebody attacks me for double crossing and murdering their kith and kin me doesn't give me the right to kill their kith and kin going on the road."

        Additionally, your strategy in FATA is called Collective Punishment which most international groups and organizations call a WAR CRIME. It is the same sort of treatment Israel metes out to Palestinians day in and day out - so congratulations you apply the same exact logic as the Israelis to justify massacring and displacing an indigenous population with more rights to be involved with the future of Afghanistan and northern Pakistan than a single ******* from all of Lahore or Islamabad.

        Wake up from slumber and actually think about why people do what they do instead of justifying your personal viewpoints.
        "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Shehbaz Khan View Post
          ^ So basically you are telling me that if the so called Pakistani talibans kill the innocent civilians in Pakistan is right?

          No it's not. Just because somebody robs me doesn't give me the right to rob another person going on the road.
          What if i tell you that your paki military establishment is playing good and bad taliban. The sajna, who is nowadays killing "bad" taliban for army, is given free hand in karachi where he is involved in bhatakhori and kidnappings for ransoms, rangers didnt bother his men during operation. Sajna ji was also involved in suicide bombings etc as TTP member.
          [URL="http://historyofpashtuns.blogspot.com.au/2014/07/afghan-sikh-wars.html"][SIZE=5][COLOR=Green]History of Pashtuns[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL]

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          • #50
            Originally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post

            You are speaking out of thin air, and your jingoism and brain washing by the Pakistani military-media complex is guiding your conclusions instead of your scientific training. This means you have no evidence for the above statement. I do, however, have evidence to the contrary from a high impact factor source:

            This was a large sample size multi nation survey done across the Muslim world:


            The executive summary makes sure to note:
            And i knew that you will pull this survey out.while Pakistani being on average are religious will indeed Agree for a shariah but you would not even see a thousand making out to the street for declaring shariah.But on daily basis you would see thousand making to the street for electricity and inflation strikes,upto lacs for Imran khan and tahir ul Qadri

            I hope you do know the difference between a Survey conducted on a complete literate country like USA and than Pakistan.

            So the will of 84% for shariah lack the groud realities otherwise even if 20% of them makes it to the street for a week will ensure shariah by next month in Pakistan.

            so you have a problem with the evidence here. Let us just say that your view reflects a minority, elite, wealthy people's view detached from the ground level reality I encountered on my travels through your country while talking with the rural people and the masses. You and Shabaz choose to believe that most people agree with you, but your evidences are lacking.

            Now the only place I do agree with you is that many Pakistanis are confused, in that they are programmed by school and the media military complex to be jingoistic so that the military keeps its tight corrupt hold on things. This means that the Pakistani non military sector suffers while defense flourishes and continues to provide bungalows for low level military people and sycophantic government people all because they have control of the radio and television waves to influence opinions.
            Not really,as i explained the 84% will for shariah lack the ground realities.Nothing on ground is being done for the purpose and this is not the case with common Pakistani but even the religious.I am a regular visitor of Shab e juma and in the past 3 years i have not seen anyone of them ever claiming to fight or makes it to the street for shariah in Pakistan ever.

            lol,Not sure why you think being patriotic toward Pakistan mean i will have to bow down to Pakistan army or being brainwashed.

            I have repeatedly said that i will even support Israely armed force's against taliban,now be them of Pakistan or Afghanistan.I Also don't consider taliban as human and neither muslim instead mentally ill pagan.

            Well the first choice is to marginalize people like you and Shabaz and not take any advice whatsoever from jingoists who think that they know better than their own people yet have no idea of the suffering and true needs and wants of their people. The second option is to do what real nations do for their own people, which is value the life, liberty and property of their own citizens above all others. Pakistan has been all too willing to misuse and misapply religious laws when it suits its establishment's purpose as opposed to social justice.

            Ofcourse Pakistan is a poor country and no evacuation process would be perfect.At the end of the day,These taliban's are keeping FATA in stone age.

            Wrong again, its your policies that drive the populace to support these groups and its your policies that further radicalize them. Once again, I follow the evidence and not personal whims. Just because your family benefits from the feudal aspects of the current Pakistani social structure does not mean you should ignore evidence.

            Robert Pape - Cutting the Fuse: The Explosion of Suicide Terrorism and How to Stop It (3 of 4) - YouTube

            This is Dr. Robert Pape, of University of Chicago, he has the largest collection of suicide attack events in the worlds largest database. He Begin watching this video at 2 min and 51 seconds. He provides an evidence based reason of why attacks began to spike up in mainland Pakistan beyond FATA and what instigated it.
            TTP doesn't care about Pashtun people neither Islam.They only care about Islamabad.

            I very much know the suffering of my people and i do know that Taliban TODAY are the only responsible

            Well sir the pashtun on this forum you encounter to be anti Pakistan are not even 0.0000000000000000000001% of Pakistani pashtuns.Not sure when was the last time you had been to pakistan but if you do ever next time.I am sure you will second my thoughts.

            A facebook page is not an adequate reference for a nation that is renowned for skimming aid and resources away from other provinces than the Panjab and for being the best in the world at stealing from its own people. In general you have proven nothing to me except that you are out of touch with reality and as an oppressor, seek to implement your elitest views onto the people even if it means nearly half a million people lose their stability.

            Do you understand that FATA still has a livestock based agrarian culture and society? That means that they subsist and trade in livestock like the fat tail sheep and many of these domesticated animals rely on human presence for survival. It is cruel and inhumane for that bought and paid for prostitute military to pretty much ensure that about 1/3 of the tribal people's protein resources and agrarian economy is decimated with this mass migration. But then again, they have people like you and Shahbaz who they have hoodwinked into being the biggest cheerleaders for their purposes. Next time bring me sound evidence for any future discussion
            Well Alot of Projects for FATA are in the pipeline.Postoperational development is also being planned.Corruption in Pakistan happen in almost every department

            For the operation to be successful,Evacuation was extremely important.

            We are not cheerleaders but we know the Ground realities and you don't.I live next to the FATA and apart from me(Cancelled for education purpose) everyone else in my family has FATA domicile.So they are more closer to me than to you and i know the Ground realities much more than you can even imagine.

            Again your concerns are justified but being a poor country,No evacuation process would be perfect.At the end of the day,They will return to a militants free waziristan like swat.
            "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Smarty View Post
              What if i tell you that your paki military establishment is playing good and bad taliban. The sajna, who is nowadays killing "bad" taliban for army, is given free hand in karachi where he is involved in bhatakhori and kidnappings for ransoms, rangers didnt bother his men during operation. Sajna ji was also involved in suicide bombings etc as TTP member.
              All Groups are being targetted.

              TTP karachi(Mostly sajna Group members) commander was killed last week including more militants.
              "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

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              • #52
                What i am not getting is the majority of the pashtuns from Afghanistan support the NATO/ANA offensive against Talibans in Afghanistan even when they are carrying out more airstrike than Pakistan does.Infact last month upto 60 people were killed in patkia bombing with no confirmation at all.

                But they oppose the Operation against taliban in a small city size agency like waziristan

                Despite that fact that taliban has killed more civilian in Pakistan than Afghanistan,And most importantly despite the fact that talibans still enjoy alot of support from Pashtuns in Afghanistan while the support for taliban in pakistan is either from the terrorist sympathisers in the army or extreme small numbers of local pashtuns.

                If it was not the terrorist sympathiser of Zia era in the army(including kiyani),TTP would never have reached the point of killing upto 50k civilian.

                With a only single operation,TTP activities in Pakistan has collapsed at once
                "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Da Bannu Mazdigar View Post
                  What i am not getting is the majority of the pashtuns from Afghanistan support the NATO/ANA offensive against Talibans in Afghanistan even when they are carrying out more airstrike than Pakistan does.Infact last month upto 60 people were killed in patkia bombing with no confirmation at all.

                  But they oppose the Operation against taliban in a small city size agency like waziristan

                  Despite that fact that taliban has killed more civilian in Pakistan than Afghanistan,And most importantly despite the fact that talibans still enjoy alot of support from Pashtuns in Afghanistan while the support for taliban in pakistan is either from the terrorist sympathisers in the army or extreme small numbers of local pashtuns.

                  If it was not the terrorist sympathiser of Zia era in the army(including kiyani),TTP would never have reached the point of killing upto 50k civilian.

                  With a only single operation,TTP activities in Pakistan has collapsed at once
                  Becuase Poskitan is a dirty kafir nation, and taliban want to bring Islam and shariah, so if you are a good muslim you should let them do their job, but you are not, you are still money worshiping ***** of south Asia.

                  Afghanistan is already a good and pure Islamic country, we need modernesation to go forward and economic growth, Pakistan need more burqas and talibs becuase you lost you way and are now even watch animal porn.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Smarty View Post
                    What if i tell you that your paki military establishment is playing good and bad taliban. The sajna, who is nowadays killing "bad" taliban for army, is given free hand in karachi where he is involved in bhatakhori and kidnappings for ransoms, rangers didnt bother his men during operation. Sajna ji was also involved in suicide bombings etc as TTP member.

                    I live in Karachi and all the bhata-khori, ransoms here are done by political parties 99.99% times.
                    yao warokay ghwandi baagh ao pa khwa ye seen rawan!

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post

                      "So basically you are telling me that if the so called Pakistani Mercenary Army kill the innocent civilians in FATA that is right?

                      No it's not and I never justified it. But again you will say Pakistan's Army is killing civilians and I will say that the Talibans are killing civilians as well. What will be the final solution? The same as I said, that both countries agree of not playing any proxy wars, we seal the border, and kill the militants once and for all. For that we both have to be true to ourselves and each other. Be honest for a while and show the will to resolve the problem. Else this will keep on repeating just like it is from the past 14 years.
                      yao warokay ghwandi baagh ao pa khwa ye seen rawan!

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Khostai View Post
                        Becuase Poskitan is a dirty kafir nation, and taliban want to bring Islam and shariah, so if you are a good muslim you should let them do their job, but you are not, you are still money worshiping ***** of south Asia.

                        Afghanistan is already a good and pure Islamic country, we need modernesation to go forward and economic growth, Pakistan need more burqas and talibs becuase you lost you way and are now even watch animal porn.
                        ghul makhaura,

                        sam sha alaka
                        "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

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                        • #57
                          [MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION]

                          Well Sir you have quoted me Hayatullah khan family remarks but you didnt quoted me anyone of those 50k families destroyed by TTP.You have not quoted me my classmate Elder brother,student of 7th semester in uet peshawar from hangu died because of them and what was his father upto and under what condition even today his mother is,You also have not quoted me my neighbour Shakeel being killed on his way to peshawar with his family leaving him and his less than 2 years old kid dead while wife lost her hand.



                          Please don't tell us the one sided story,As i said i would not say a million but rather a billion times i know the ground realities much better than you.

                          These kids demand justice,They want their mother death to be avenged.Just imagine leaving without murder because she was killed by some damn bloody terrorist and now we have got sympathisers of them aswell.

                          Sorry but i only believe in bombing taliban to hell.Even if my brother joins taliban i would consider him a pagan and will kill him myself if had granted the power.



                          A girl cries over her dead mother at the scene of a bomb blast outside Jinnah hospital in Karachi February 5, 2010

                          As long as even a single Pakistani pashtun like me exist in this country,We will bomb the hell out of taliban
                          Last edited by Da Bannu Mazdigar; 06-23-2014, 09:24 AM.
                          "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Da Bannu Mazdigar View Post
                            All Groups are being targetted.

                            TTP karachi(Mostly sajna Group members) commander was killed last week including more militants.
                            That commander belonged to rival shehryar mehsud (hakimullah mehsud group)
                            [URL="http://historyofpashtuns.blogspot.com.au/2014/07/afghan-sikh-wars.html"][SIZE=5][COLOR=Green]History of Pashtuns[/COLOR][/SIZE][/URL]

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Smarty View Post
                              That commander belonged to rival shehryar mehsud (hakimullah mehsud group)
                              Read the Jang extract related to Hafiz Gul bahadur
                              "[B][SIZE="3"]Seer Speen Wazeer[/SIZE][/B]"

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Da Bannu Mazdigar View Post
                                What i am not getting is the majority of the pashtuns from Afghanistan support the NATO/ANA offensive against Talibans in Afghanistan even when they are carrying out more airstrike than Pakistan does.Infact last month upto 60 people were killed in patkia bombing with no confirmation at all.

                                But they oppose the Operation against taliban in a small city size agency like waziristan
                                Majority of Pashtuns in Afghanistan are opposed to the US/NATO war and Pakistan support for it with NATO supply lines.

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