Mr Ghani soon disqualified?

[MostafaM]

Ethnic-nationalism started many decades ago. With Abdur Rahman Khan. Most of pashtuns ruled have attempted several times to pashtunize our country. Obviously non pashtuns will not tolerate this. Massoud and Rabbani show up just because pashtunism. There was no tajik nationalism in afghanistan before 1979. Actually non pashtuns did not count. Eveything was under pashtun control. Now when they fight back you should not cry. They are just doing the same sh*t that pashtuns have done for decades.

BTW please share that video. I do agree with Massoud: Afghanistan belongs to all afghans not only to pashtuns. If you don't agree please pack your bag and feel free to leave our country. I am glad that pashtunism is dead. I also wish all this tajik nationalism vanish too. And believe me, all of you, tajiks and pashtun nationalist donkeys are threat to our country.

You using historic annecdotes in the wrong context to justify ethnic hatred.
Let tackle your arguements one by one.

1. Abdurrahman Khan himself was raised outside Afghanistan and he couldn´t speak Pashto. His trusted army officers where of Turkmen and Usbek origin and had been with him from the days of his childhood that he had to spent in Bukhara.

2. Abdurrahman Khan´s view on politics and security wasn´t ethnically motivated but solely built around the idea of maintaining his grip on power.
He used his mostly Turkmen and Usbek led army to crush many rebellions and to islamize Nuristan.

3. Abdurrahman Khan´s view on Pashtuns, their tribal structure and loyalty manifested themselves after the Russian invasion of the Afghan territory of Panjdeh where Zarist troops occupied Afghan territory without a single-shot or resistance by the local people there.
He had seen how Pashtuns had and still resisted British incursions into their territory in the south and was able to understand that there was a difference between the Pashtuns and the people in the north.
To create a bollwerk against further Russian incursions into northern Afghanistan he relocated many Pashtuns to the northern territories because he was convinced that the local population wouldn´t fight since they hadn´t resisted in Panjdeh either.

4. Cultural Pashtunization is almost complete.
Every ethnic group within Afghanistan has been assimilated into a concept of Afghanyat which is nothing else that Pashtunwali minus the tribal related points.
You saying that Pashtuns have tried to "Pashtunize" others is incorrect because no one has forced anyone to leave their culture, heritage or language. From my point of view this was a mistake. You may ask why and I will tell you that tolerance from the Pashtun point of view limited the creation of a culturally AND linguistically homogenous country.

5. Everything was under a Pashtun kings controle and since the king had absolutly no real power but the tribes had, everything was in the hands of the people.
In Afghanistan three groups had power in their hands:
the royals, the clerus and educated urban people who were running the state.
The royals were Pashtuns, the clerus was overwhelmingly non-Pashtun and the educated urban people who were ministers, lawyers etc were predominantly non-Pashtun, too.
So you hyperventilation about Pashtuns leading and having everything is total propaganda and a weird way to look at things.

6. Rabbani and Massoud had peace deals with the Russians and if Abdurrahman Khan would have been alive today, he wouldn´t be surprised.
Panjdeh had repeated itself.

7. I do agree that everyone living in modern day Afghanista is an integral part of this country and should work for the benefit of the whole nation.
If that is not possible on a large scale aka if ethnic groups don´t see themselves as Afghans and wanna go a separate way, then for god´s sake just leave.
Take your territory with you and have fun.

8. Pashtunism doesn´t exist.
Every Pashtun who insists on talking his own tongue is called that.
That´s a weird and distorted way of looking at things.
Pashto will never die and that´s the important thing.

9. A thread to our country are those who rewrite history and try to manipulate politics by inciting hatred and division based on lies and twisting facts.
In this case, Mr Vinyard, you are one of those you try to attack.

[Khostai]

[MENTION=3253]MostafaM[/MENTION] don't bother with this facist tajik like Vinyard, his hatred is so big for Pashtuns that he will never change his mind and will twist everything just to spread more hatred and racism towards Pashtuns.

[vinyard80]

You using historic annecdotes in the wrong context to justify ethnic hatred.
Let tackle your arguements one by one.

1. Abdurrahman Khan himself was raised outside Afghanistan and he couldn´t speak Pashto. His trusted army officers where of Turkmen and Usbek origin and had been with him from the days of his childhood that he had to spent in Bukhara.

2. Abdurrahman Khan´s view on politics and security wasn´t ethnically motivated but solely built around the idea of maintaining his grip on power.
He used his mostly Turkmen and Usbek led army to crush many rebellions and to islamize Nuristan.

3. Abdurrahman Khan´s view on Pashtuns, their tribal structure and loyalty manifested themselves after the Russian invasion of the Afghan territory of Panjdeh where Zarist troops occupied Afghan territory without a single-shot or resistance by the local people there.
He had seen how Pashtuns had and still resisted British incursions into their territory in the south and was able to understand that there was a difference between the Pashtuns and the people in the north.
To create a bollwerk against further Russian incursions into northern Afghanistan he relocated many Pashtuns to the northern territories because he was convinced that the local population wouldn´t fight since they hadn´t resisted in Panjdeh either.

4. Cultural Pashtunization is almost complete.
Every ethnic group within Afghanistan has been assimilated into a concept of Afghanyat which is nothing else that Pashtunwali minus the tribal related points.
You saying that Pashtuns have tried to "Pashtunize" others is incorrect because no one has forced anyone to leave their culture, heritage or language. From my point of view this was a mistake. You may ask why and I will tell you that tolerance from the Pashtun point of view limited the creation of a culturally AND linguistically homogenous country.

5. Everything was under a Pashtun kings controle and since the king had absolutly no real power but the tribes had, everything was in the hands of the people.
In Afghanistan three groups had power in their hands:
the royals, the clerus and educated urban people who were running the state.
The royals were Pashtuns, the clerus was overwhelmingly non-Pashtun and the educated urban people who were ministers, lawyers etc were predominantly non-Pashtun, too.
So you hyperventilation about Pashtuns leading and having everything is total propaganda and a weird way to look at things.

6. Rabbani and Massoud had peace deals with the Russians and if Abdurrahman Khan would have been alive today, he wouldn´t be surprised.
Panjdeh had repeated itself.

7. I do agree that everyone living in modern day Afghanista is an integral part of this country and should work for the benefit of the whole nation.
If that is not possible on a large scale aka if ethnic groups don´t see themselves as Afghans and wanna go a separate way, then for god´s sake just leave.
Take your territory with you and have fun.

8. Pashtunism doesn´t exist.
Every Pashtun who insists on talking his own tongue is called that.
That´s a weird and distorted way of looking at things.
Pashto will never die and that´s the important thing.

9. A thread to our country are those who rewrite history and try to manipulate politics by inciting hatred and division based on lies and twisting facts.
In this case, Mr Vinyard, you are one of those you try to attack.

You made some good and valid points bro.

Well to me Abdul Rahman Khan was a Mullah Omar. He settled thousand of pashtuns in non pashtun areas in order to pashtunize and defend afghanistans borders. But he failed. You are right when you say almost all afghans share a concept called "afghanyat". But its also true that most of pashtuns in north and west afghanistan can not speak pashto and they got persianized some of them even more than tajiks themselves. Pashtunization failed just because one single reason: persian culture is much better than pashtun culture. Persian culture is old, urban and sophisticated while pashtun culture is a tribal and backward culture.

BTW your statement on how brave pashtuns are while northerners are not is just pure BS.

Pashtunism does exist. People like ismael yoon or taliban are a good example of it. Please stop moaning. No one has ever forced on pashtuns farsi. Actually pashtuns are those who are always looking down on non pashtuns and forcing them to use words such as pohantoon or darlmantoon. 60th and 70th are gone. Get over to it.

[vinyard80]

[MENTION=3253]MostafaM[/MENTION] don't bother with this facist tajik like Vinyard, his hatred is so big for Pashtuns that he will never change his mind and will twist everything just to spread more hatred and racism towards Pashtuns.

Man hope you can see how "paradoxical" your statement is. First you bash tajiks and after that you condemn racism against pashtuns. Bechem YOU ARE UNIQUE! LOL

[Khostai]

Man hope you can see how "paradoxical" your statement is. First you bash tajiks and after that you condemn racism against pashtuns. Bechem YOU ARE UNIQUE! LOL

Yes I know, I am not an inbred facist tajik that suffers inferiority complex.
But don't worry you and your kind will always be the peasants .

[Al-Afghani]

[MENTION=3253]MostafaM[/MENTION] the central Asian Turks had anti Soviet fighters, called Basmachi, who staged attacks from the hideouts in Afghanistan. The Afghan government was afraid this would draw the anger of the Russia, so they had these fighters expelled.

It would be similar if Pakistan today kicks out the entire Taliban leadership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basmachi_movement

Cutting deals with neighbouring empires is the Afghan survival strategy.

[vinyard80]

Yes I know, I am not an inbred facist tajik that suffers inferiority complex.
But don't worry you and your kind will always be the peasants .

Well since most of urban and educated people in afghanistan are persianspeakers (even in areas mainly inhabited by pashtuns such as ghazni or orgun)... i don't know who are the peasants lol

[Khostai]

Well since most of urban and educated people in afghanistan are persianspeakers (even in areas mainly inhabited by pashtuns such as ghazni or orgun)... i don't know who are the peasants lol

Like the immigrants in Europe that have filled in the main cities, who fled their peasant live from their home countries and seteld in the cities of Europe, the same have you Tajiks done, you fled you home land and seteld in the cities, of Pashtun lands, you can now pretend that you are so cultured and urbanised, but the reason that all the land is owned by Pashtuns and almost nothing by your half breed Mongolians says enough .

Only in past 12 years you thiefs have acuired some land, and that by force stealing it from their owners.

So you are the peasant, once a peasant will always stay a peasant in behaviour toughts and culture.

[vinyard80]

Like the immigrants in Europe that have filled in the main cities, who fled their peasant live from their home countries and seteld in the cities of Europe, the same have you Tajiks done, you fled you home land and seteld in the cities, of Pashtun lands, you can now pretend that you are so cultured and urbanised, but the reason that all the land is owned by Pashtuns and almost nothing by your half breed Mongolians says enough .

Only in past 12 years you thiefs have acuired some land, and that by force stealing it from their owners.

So you are the peasant, once a peasant will always stay a peasant in behaviour toughts and culture.

Great. Now please wake up and take your pills xD

Keep it up.

[MostafaM]

You made some good and valid points bro.

Well to me Abdul Rahman Khan was a Mullah Omar. He settled thousand of pashtuns in non pashtun areas in order to pashtunize and defend afghanistans borders. But he failed. You are right when you say almost all afghans share a concept called "afghanyat". But its also true that most of pashtuns in north and west afghanistan can not speak pashto and they got persianized some of them even more than tajiks themselves. Pashtunization failed just because one single reason: persian culture is much better than pashtun culture. Persian culture is old, urban and sophisticated while pashtun culture is a tribal and backward culture.

BTW your statement on how brave pashtuns are while northerners are not is just pure BS.

Pashtunism does exist. People like ismael yoon or taliban are a good example of it. Please stop moaning. No one has ever forced on pashtuns farsi. Actually pashtuns are those who are always looking down on non pashtuns and forcing them to use words such as pohantoon or darlmantoon. 60th and 70th are gone. Get over to it.

You misunderstood my reply to you.

1. Abdurrahman Khan relocated Pashtuns to the north because they would resist. That´s what he wrote in his memoires and that what history revealed afterwards when Russian tanks entered Afghanistan via Hairatan.
If I may remind you, the main resistance in the north were in Baghlan und Kunduz, somehow Pashtun bastions while the rest of the north was almost calm.
These are historical facts.

I can´t recall that Mullah Omar had settled any tribe anywhere so your connection between these two people remains somehow shallow.

And I agree that securing the borders of Afghanistan by settling Pashtuns there failed but it failed because not enough Pashtuns were settled there.

2. I don´t have any numbers of "Tajikised Pashtuns" but there a few, some of them roaming on this forum. But keep in mind that being a Tajik is not a well-defined terminus. A Pashtun is Pashtun by birth, language and culture.
A Tajik is Tajik because he cannot identify to a certain ethnic or cultural heritage. So you are right that everyone can become a Tajik by loosing his identity but by these standards even a sub-Saharan African who grows up among Farsi speaking people can become a Tajik which is not a very catchy definition of a people. ;-)
You don´t have to be something to be a Tajik.
You just need to be against Pashto to become one.
That´s the sad definition of the word nowadays.

3. Persian culture doesn´t exist anymore.
The Persians were an ancient people who got destinct after the various invasions of Greater Persia by almost everyone who could rally a busload of fighters behind him.
The Persian culture you are talking about doesn´t exist either because Tajiks are a peasant people as Pashtuns, too.

What I meant with:
"....In Afghanistan three groups had power in their hands:
the royals, the clerus and educated urban people who were running the state.
The royals were Pashtuns, the clerus was overwhelmingly non-Pashtun and the educated urban people who were ministers, lawyers etc were predominantly non-Pashtun, too...."

was that back in the old days this was true.
The elite of state were those in Kabul who could help the royals to run and govern the state.
This quickly changed even Abdurrahman Khan and his successors.
And I used the word "predominantly".

Better is what can last longer, what can survive hardship, enmity and conflicts and by this definition Pashtun culture with it´s deep roots in the people, the nature and religion of the people is by far better than you want it to be.
It is the only language that was used by people in ancient times. It preservation by it´s talkers clearly shows of what quality it is.
And I say this with no intention to badmouth Farsi or Persian culture but I just remind you as a reader of my posts that even Middle Persian is not talked anymore anywhere. Old Persian is totally extinct.

4. Since Pashtuns/Afghans are the backbone of Afghanistan, founded the state that was named after them and are clearly the cultural foundation of the sociaty (Afghanyat), it is normal that it is the national and 1st official language of the country and that people like you have to live with Pohantoons, Mrastoons and Darlmantoons for another 1000 years to come.

OR you can break away and act all independent, funky and cool by imitating with fancy Farsi words all over the place and tap each other on the sholder for belonging to Persian culture and feel superior to others while trying to block the memories of Ghorid, Suri, Lodin,Hotaki and Durrani empires.

It´s up to you, my friend.
I don´t have a problem with whatever you may think is the right path to go.

[Kushan Prince]

This stupid Tajik bazingar (vineyard) is getting on my damm nerves. He calls pashtuns and our culture backwards and i have no idea why the admin is not doing anything about it. Just ban this khar so he can be taught a lesson cause i've had enough of his ridiculous trolling.

[Herat]

Khushal (exaggerations aside) is mostly correct here about Amrullah Saleh.

Edit: I did not see MostafaMs post in the previous page, never mind.

[randolph85]

Typical superficial noncense of the Islamist, this is not a miss universe pageant were people are judged by there appearance....You really sound like a teenage girl, complaining about their looks and nothing more, really pathetic.

and nothing more? i have already stated why both these men are clowns. i am sorry for insulting your anti pashtun warlord friends and their buddies.

[Shah-i-Kot]

Typical superficial noncense of the Islamist, this is not a miss universe pageant were people are judged by there appearance....You really sound like a teenage girl, complaining about their looks and nothing more, really pathetic.

The "elections" are a complete sham/show because there is a US/NATO presence.

The elections lack credibility and legality.

[Khostai]

The "elections" are a complete sham/show because there is a US/NATO presence.

The elections lack credibility and legality.

Yes the million people who made an effort to vote did it for nothing?
Just becuase US/NATO is there? When in fact majority of Afghanistan is now in the hand of Afghan army and not US or NATO.