Arabic should become the single official national language in all muslim countries

[Karachi]

Shamlawar and Barkazai are basically dogs of arabs, let them be what they want, this is their worth anyways. Our countries should follow Tajikistan, they have banned arab names, and also great news what Bengal Tiger has posted above

[Bengal_Tiger]

Shamlawar and Barkazai are basically dogs of arabs, let them be what they want, this is their worth anyways. Our countries should follow Tajikistan, they have banned arab names, and also great news what Bengal Tiger has posted above

I don't have a problem with the Arabic language, in fact I have deep respect for it as it is the language of the holy Quran and is a beautiful language in its own right, very eloquent. I encourage Muslims to learn it.

I also encourage Muslims to be aware that the Quran itself praises ethnic pluralism and does not encourage linguistic genocide.

- The world would be a poorer place if the English language, the language that this entire forum is in with its tens of thousands of messages, were to be lost.

- The world would be a poorer place if Pashto were to be lost.

- The world would be a poorer place if Arabic were to be lost.

- The place would be a poorer place if Sylheti (my variant of Bangla) were to be lost.

Linguistic diversity enriches us all.

What Shamlawar Khurasani calls to is basically linguistic genocide and Arabization.

In Syria, Assadists and anti-Assadists both speak Arabic, yet they are killing each other.

Saudis and the Houthis both speak Arabic but they kill each other.

Does speaking Arabic automatically prevent conflict?

NO

Algerian context.

1. Algeria is the largest country in the Arab world territorially.

2. 2nd largest country population-wise.

Should it lose all the languages that were spoken before the Arab conquest?

NO.

Good to see Algeria preserving its languages and show the world that they are not "Arabs" (per se) but North Africans of a mixed Arabo-Amazighi identity.

Anyway even the middle east media do not give as much importance to Algeria and Morocco as they should with these two being the 2nd and 3rd biggest Arab states, instead they give far more importance to the middle east (Levant +Egypt +Gulf) probably because of a subconscious belief that the north Africans are "less Arab" which by the way north Africans themselves have, looking up to the middle east as the centre of true "Arabness". So why should Algerians try so hard to attach themselves to Arabness when they are considered as 2nd grade lesser Arabs in terms of "authenticity".

Anyway the Algerians defeated Wahabism/Salafism quite a few years ago and this recent move shows how weak Shamlawar Khurasani style Salafis are in Algeria.

lol.



Woman with Amazighi colours.

Anyway what are Shamlawar Khurasani type Salafis saying to Muslims and non-Muslims?


"Become Muslim and become Arab, drop Pashto/Bengali/Dari/Turkish/Urdi/English/Russian etc"

Muslim = Arab?

[Karachi]

I don't have a problem with the Arabic language, in fact I have deep respect for it as it is the language of the holy Quran and is a beautiful language in its own right, very eloquent. I encourage Muslims to learn it.

I also encourage Muslims to be aware that the Quran itself praises ethnic pluralism and does not encourage linguistic genocide.

- The world would be a poorer place if the English language, the language that this entire forum is in with its tens of thousands of messages, were to be lost.

- The world would be a poorer place if Pashto were to be lost.

- The world would be a poorer place if Arabic were to be lost.

- The place would be a poorer place if Sylheti (my variant of Bangla) were to be lost.

Linguistic diversity enriches us all.

What Shamlawar Khurasani calls to is basically linguistic genocide and Arabization.

In Syria, Assadists and anti-Assadists both speak Arabic, yet they are killing each other.

Saudis and the Houthis both speak Arabic but they kill each other.

Does speaking Arabic automatically prevent conflict?

NO

Algerian context.

1. Algeria is the largest country in the Arab world territorially.

2. 2nd largest country population-wise.

Should it lose all the languages that were spoken before the Arab conquest?

NO.

Good to see Algeria preserving its languages and show the world that they are not "Arabs" (per se) but North Africans of a mixed Arabo-Amazighi identity.

Anyway even the middle east media do not give as much important to Algeria and Morocco as they should with these two being the 2nd and 3rd biggest Arab states, instead they give far more importance to the middle east (Levant +Egypt +Gulf) probably because of a subconscious belief that the north Africans are "less Arab" which by the way north Africans themselves have, looking up to the middle east as the centre of true "Arabness". So why should Algerians try so hard to attach themselves to Arabness when they are considered as 2nd grade lesser Arabs in terms of "authenticity".

Anyway the Algerians defeated Wahabism/Salafism quite a few years ago and this recent move shows how weak Shamlawar Khurasani style Salafis are in Algeria.

lol.



Woman with Amazighi colours.

Anyway what are Shamlawar Khurasani type Salafis saying to Muslims and non-Muslims?


"Become Muslim and become Arab, drop Pashto/Bengali/Dari/Turkish/Urdi/English/Russian etc"

Muslim = Arab?

I agree, the genocide of languages/culture is the problem, not learning some other language. But this is what these Wahabhis/Salafis/Deobandis want. They want the destruction of anything local (south asian), replaced by Saudi/Arab culture.

[Bengal_Tiger]

I agree, the genocide of languages/culture is the problem, not learning some other language. But this is what these Wahabhis/Salafis/Deobandis want. They want the destruction of anything local (south asian), replaced by Saudi/Arab culture.

For people like Shamlawar Khurasani,

ARAB = GOOD/SUPERIOR

NON-ARAB = BAD/INFERIOR

Everyone should become an Arab.

Their Salafi texts praise Arabness.

"Unfortunately" Shamlawar Khurasani will never see his dream of a mono-lingual i.e one-language world where Arabic and nothing but Arabic is spoken. In fact the fact that he is on this site which is dedicated to promoting Pashto language and culture is ironic as it is sites like this which ensure non-Arabic Muslim tongues continue.

[Forreigner]

Arabs can be very racist people, as racist as White people imo. They don't even care about fellow Muslims. Indian and Pakistani and even Afghan Muslims in Dubai and other Arab countries regularly face discrimination and racism by Arabs. Islam can be practised without Arabism. Arabism is Arab supremacy. it's no different from White/European supremacy. Arabs want the rest of the world to worship them. Losing your ethnic language is the same as losing your identity. Look at Egyptian people whose ancestors were a proud people, building a greater civilizations than Arabs can even fantasizy with all their oil money, now they go around calling themselves Arab and speaking Arabic and have little to no idea about the past people of Egypt, in people who built the pyramids.

I propose that Quran either be fully translated into local languages or have subtitles so people can read the meaning in their local language. There is no need to learn Arabic to be able to pray to God. God should understand your prayer regardless of your language.

My 2nd suggestion is Arabs should learn others languages...Being a Muslim, should never be about being becoming fully Arab and forget your own language, culture and identity.

Btw. Arabs don't consider other Arabic speaking people from Middle East as real Arabs. they are like 2nd class arabs to gulf Arabs. So there is that as well.

[Firdousi]

Arabs are very racist people, more racist than White people imo. They don't even care about fellow Muslims. Indian and Pakistani and even Afghan Muslims in Dubai and other Arab countries regularly face discrimination and racism by Arabs. Islam can be practised without Arabism. Arabism is Arab supremacy. it's no different from White/European supremacy. Arabs want the rest of the world to worship them. Losing your ethnic language is the same as losing your identity. Look at Egyptian people whose ancestors were a proud people, building a greater civilizations than Arabs can even fantasizy with all their oil money, now they go around calling themselves Arab and speaking Arabic and have little to no idea about the past people of Egypt, in people who built the pyramids.

I propose that Quran either be fully translated into local languages or have subtitles so people can read the meaning in their local language. There is no need to learn Arabic to be able to pray to God. God should understand your prayer regardless of your language.

My 2nd suggestion is Arabs should learn others languages...Being a Muslim, should never be about being becoming fully Arab and forget your own language, culture and identity.

Btw. Arabs don't consider other Arabic speaking people from Middle East as real Arabs. they are like 2nd class arabs to gulf Arabs. So there is that as well.

Islam is not just a religion. Its also an Arab nationalist ideology. Arabism and Islamism are two sides of the same coin.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Islam is not just a religion. Its also an Arab nationalist ideology. Arabism and Islamism are two sides of the same coin.

This is a false statement for so many very obvious reasons.

[Sarbani]

Islam is not just a religion. Its also an Arab nationalist ideology. Arabism and Islamism are two sides of the same coin.

Yep, Islam = Arab colonialism. If one wants evidence, then look no further than the title of this thread.

[Firdousi]

This is a false statement for so many very obvious reasons.

Eh no, its not. Its based on facts. From Morocco to Iraq most of these countries were non-Arabic before Islam. Islam just arabized these countries. They tried same thing with Persians but since Persian culture is urban, old and developed, they failed to do so. If there was not Rudaki, no Daqiqi, no Ferdwosi,.. today we all would be Arabs.

Come on, dude. God speaks Arabic, Quraysh is the greatest tribe ever, you have to bend yourself five times toward Arabia,.. thats cultural imperialism. Don't get me wrong, I am Muslim. But I am Afghan, Persianspeaker and human being too.

[Forreigner]

Islam is not just a religion. Its also an Arab nationalist ideology. Arabism and Islamism are two sides of the same coin.

yep man. the arabs gain in everyway. just think for a moment how much money they make every year from millions of Muslims travelling for pilgrimage. Muhammad was a very inteligent man. He wasn't just some God sent prophet, he was a political genius. He singlehandedly changed Arabs from beduin/nomadic people to world influencing people. Sure Islam unite people of different lands, ethnicities, languages, and cultures, but at the time you can't unnotice its Arabcentric/Arab supremacist side.

I like Islam, and culturally I consider myself Muslim after Afghan (Farsiwan/tajik or what ever farsi speakers are called), but at the same you can't help but notice this aspect of Islam and it's subliminal agenda of making Arabia the center of the world, and putting Arab people on top.

This said I don't propose Afghanistan should abandon Islam or Westernize. I am not a fan of western culture, imo many aspects of Western culture is inferior to Eastern cultures, if you look past their prosperity and scientific advancements.

The Muslims before 1500 were more advanced than the West, I believe Afghanistan and Islamic countries can prosper as nations without abandoning their own cultures. Afghanistan should remain culturally Afghan (Muslim/Eastern) but give importance to education and science as this is the only way out of poverty.

[Firdousi]

yep man. the arabs gain in everyway. just think for a moment how much money they make every year from millions of Muslims travelling for pilgrimage. Muhammad was a very inteligent man. He wasn't just some God sent prophet, he was a political genius. He singlehandedly changed Arabs from beduin/nomadic people to world influencing people. Sure Islam unite people of different lands, ethnicities, languages, and cultures, but at the time you can't unnotice its Arabcentric/Arab supremacist side.

I like Islam, and culturally I consider myself Muslim after Afghan (Farsiwan/tajik or what ever farsi speakers are called), but at the same you can't help but notice this aspect of Islam and it's subliminal agenda of making Arabia the center of the world, and putting Arab people on top.

This said I don't propose Afghanistan should abandon Islam or Westernize. I am not a fan of western culture, imo many aspects of Western culture is inferior to Eastern cultures, if you look past their prosperity and scientific advancements.

The Muslims before 1500 were more advanced than the West, I believe Afghanistan and Islamic countries can prosper as nations without abandoning their own cultures. Afghanistan should remain culturally Afghan (Muslim/Eastern) but give importance to education and science as this is the only way out of poverty.

Same here. I like Islam and I consider myself a cultural Muslim but i really dislike Arabism (in my country I mean). Every time I visite Afghanistan it pisses me off the way some devout Muslims start bragging about their Arab wannabe behavior. This is a pretty disgusting attitude among many non Arab Sunnis.

We are Muslims but we are also Persianspeakers. I hate the way some Muslims want to arabize our society.

BTW where are you from, man? Are you ethnically "Tajik"?

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

Eh no, its not. Its based on facts. From Morocco to Iraq most of these countries were non-Arabic before Islam. Islam just arabized these countries. They tried same thing with Persians but since Persian culture is urban, old and developed, they failed to do so. If there was not Rudaki, no Daqiqi, no Ferdwosi,.. today we all would be Arabs.

Come on, dude. God speaks Arabic, Quraysh is the greatest tribe ever, you have to bend yourself five times toward Arabia,.. thats cultural imperialism. Don't get me wrong, I am Muslim. But I am Afghan, Persianspeaker and human being too.

Well you're correct about the transition of Arabic as a linga franca from East West But you're incorrect as to why that is. Arabs of the 7th- 8th century did not have a collective consciousness, they were more concerned with their tribe. And tribal politics than anything.There was no concept of Nationalism that existed back then, As nationalism and national-state bound identities did not exist back then.

Pan-Arabism is a completely modern phenomena that tries to retroflexively and retroactively draw from history to validate itself but the history does not necessarily reflect their aims.

The transition of Arabic over North Africa and the Middle East was just the natural transition of Linga Franca from popular usage. This happened with Aramaic and Syraic as well as they became Linga Franca,to prior to Arabic. Even Persians adopted the Aramaic script to write their language. Arabic expanded more from the fact that Muslims made Arabic a literary language due to its connection to the Qur'an, as opposed to Arabs trying to impose their language for cultural or social hegemony.

This is an important contrast than enforcing a specific policy to make Arabic ascend over other languages. In Fact even during the Ummayads, they didn't want Non-Arabs to learn Arabic to maintain an Arabic upper class. The Abbasids had a completely contrary policy and introduced Arabic to the mainstream. if Islam was Pan Arab or Arab Nationalist, then there would have been no need to create a Pan-Arabist movement in modern times, it'd have already existed.

This is important because the Ummayads had a "mawali" policy to assert dominance over the Non-Arabs while the Abbasids did not, yet Arabic expanded in Post-Ummayad times.It was actually the cultural and social embrace of Muslims that lead to the spread of Arabic than the Arab-centric policies of the Ummayads. And we can see this today since Pan-Arabists seek to insulate Arabs from others

Your evidences "God speaks Arabic, Qur'an's in Arabic, Quraysh are the best tribe etc". Are at best circumstantial, It's like saying "the Sky is blue, the ocean is Blue, ....Blue is deemed a Heavenly color....this is a Bluespiracy".

It's essentially a Nonsequitur. There needs to be more corroborating evidence that this was done for the purposes of promoting Arab Hegemony. And furthermore "Quraysh is the greatest tribe" would weaken your casse since this suggests dominance of One Arab tribe over others than Arabs collecively over Non-Arabs".

hence your statement cannot be correct given the evidence that's against it. It is obviously false.

[Forreigner]

Same here. I like Islam and I consider myself a cultural Muslim but i really dislike Arabism (in my country I mean). Every time I visite Afghanistan it pisses me off the way some devout Muslims start bragging about their Arab wannabe behavior. This is a pretty disgusting attitude among many non Arab Sunnis.

We are Muslims but we are also Persianspeakers. I hate the way some Muslims want to arabize our society.

BTW where are you from, man? Are you ethnically "Tajik"?

I am from Logar. My family, related and all people I know related are Farsi speakers, although my grandmother from father side was Pashtun. but I don't know about if I should consider myself ''Tajik''. This term I have searched it on the internet, and it seems very confusing, so I don't know if it's the correct name for Farsi speakers. Apparently It's a name given by outsiders to Farsi speakers of Afghanistan that are not ethnically Hazara, Uzbek, Turkmen, Nuristani, Baloch or Pashayi and various other minority groups. Tajik supposedly means ''non-Turk'' and it can mean any group of people. I am aware of Afghan originally meaning Pasthun, I don't know either about calling myself Afghan since Afghan originally means Pashtun. I think Tajik is kinda pointless term, as people in tajikistan call themselves Tajik as well, and I have searched on those people, I can't see very much resemblence between myself, my family, farsi speaking people I know, and general Tajikistani people who seem to either look more East Asian (even Hazara people have more an ''Afghan'' look than them, like Zohib Islam Amiri for example) or Russian/North/East European (although there are Tajikistani people who look typical Afghan like this lady:



Although I don't believe in race, but being brought up in the West among people who look like this (and being called ''sandnegger'' on a few past occasions by some nasty racistt White people):




and a society where race is considered very important, you become racially aware.

People in my family look this, which in my experience is a general look of Afghan people:






















or the Afghanistan national team:



For me, as an Afghan or Afghanistani, ethnicity isn't that important matter. What matters is culture, and 2nd language. If culture and language is the same, then we have most important things in common. Luckily most Afghan groups more or less share same culture, religion, etc. and only difference and what keeps the country disunited is language (wether Farsi vs Pashto should be official language). After that physical appearance is relevant, but only so people cannot be discriminated or judged/valued differenty as human beings based solely on their appearance, although in my experience people in Afghanistan don't have a concept of race like Europeans/Americans/Whites do so perhaps we shouldn't give this any importance (my own sister is light haired while my brother has green eyes). I was told Pasthuns hated Hazaras for other reasons than their looks. I had a few Hazara friends (I live in America), and I never considered them any different way or another ''race'' like Europeans/Americans/whites do, since we shared same language, religion and culture and the way we think and see life and the world is similar.

I don't really care about the ''Tajik'' term. My father doesn't use Tajik or even Afghan either. He sometimes uses ''Afghanistani'' to refering to Afghan farsi speakers, he prefers Logari, since it makes most sense as that's where our entire familyroot is from. I don't know if it's true or not that some Farsi speakers may use ''Persian'' to identify but in my opinion that is also not correct, since ''Persian'' is what Greeks used to call everyone who lived from Pars/Fars province in Iran all the way to India (as you may know Achaemenid Empire covered an area from Egypt to India, but its capital was in Pars, so Greeks called all these Farsi speaking people Persian, so technically only people in Fars province are ''Persian'' or '''Farsi/Parsi'' kinda like if any empire had it's capital in Kabul, the people in the entire empire would be called ''Kabuli'' since Ancient Greece was a city states, so someone from Sparta was ethnically called Spartan, or someone from Athen = Athenian, or someone from Olympia = Olympian), kinda like ''Roman'' refered to people not just from city of Rome but all people in Roman empire which covered most of Europe.

Btw. I am not even sure the language was ever originially called ''Farsi'' since Farsi or Persian emplies the language came from Pars province in Iran, and the rest of people who speak Farsi in Iran and Afghanistan either came from Pars and populated deserted areas or were forcibly ''converted''/''Persianized''. I don't believe this to be the case, as Iranians sound so different from Afghan farsi speakers, even people in Logar have a different accent compared to Kabulis although not as different as Afghan Farsi/Dari and Iranian Farsi. I can barely understand Iranians talking and their version of Farsi sound very feminine/kinda gay (no disrespect btw.)

Anyway from my experience in Afghanistan (childhood), it seems farsi speaking people generally don't refer to themselves as tajik either. they identify from which city or province they are from like ''Herati, ''Zabuli'', ''Kabuli'', ''Logari'', ''Charkhi'', ''Kohistani'' etc.

[Loy Afghanistan]

I piss on all Semitic arab/jew parsites. Virus of the world, these disgusting race.

[Firdousi]

Well you're correct about the transition of Arabic as a linga franca from East West But you're incorrect as to why that is. Arabs of the 7th- 8th century did not have a collective consciousness, they were more concerned with their tribe. And tribal politics than anything.There was no concept of Nationalism that existed back then, As nationalism and national-state bound identities did not exist back then.

Pan-Arabism is a completely modern phenomena that tries to retroflexively and retroactively draw from history to validate itself but the history does not necessarily reflect their aims.

The transition of Arabic over North Africa and the Middle East was just the natural transition of Linga Franca from popular usage. This happened with Aramaic and Syraic as well as they became Linga Franca,to prior to Arabic. Even Persians adopted the Aramaic script to write their language. Arabic expanded more from the fact that Muslims made Arabic a literary language due to its connection to the Qur'an, as opposed to Arabs trying to impose their language for cultural or social hegemony.

This is an important contrast than enforcing a specific policy to make Arabic ascend over other languages. In Fact even during the Ummayads, they didn't want Non-Arabs to learn Arabic to maintain an Arabic upper class. The Abbasids had a completely contrary policy and introduced Arabic to the mainstream. if Islam was Pan Arab or Arab Nationalist, then there would have been no need to create a Pan-Arabist movement in modern times, it'd have already existed.

This is important because the Ummayads had a "mawali" policy to assert dominance over the Non-Arabs while the Abbasids did not, yet Arabic expanded in Post-Ummayad times.It was actually the cultural and social embrace of Muslims that lead to the spread of Arabic than the Arab-centric policies of the Ummayads. And we can see this today since Pan-Arabists seek to insulate Arabs from others

Your evidences "God speaks Arabic, Qur'an's in Arabic, Quraysh are the best tribe etc". Are at best circumstantial, It's like saying "the Sky is blue, the ocean is Blue, ....Blue is deemed a Heavenly color....this is a Bluespiracy".

It's essentially a Nonsequitur. There needs to be more corroborating evidence that this was done for the purposes of promoting Arab Hegemony. And furthermore "Quraysh is the greatest tribe" would weaken your casse since this suggests dominance of One Arab tribe over others than Arabs collecively over Non-Arabs".

hence your statement cannot be correct given the evidence that's against it. It is obviously false.

Its not just a linguistic assimilation. Its an identity transformation. Many people from Sudan or Somalia, despite being completely black they call themselves "Arabs". Most of Arabs in northern Africa are just Arabized berbers. All this happened after Islam arrived. No wonder so many Amazigh nationalists hate to death Islam because they consider it an Arab nationalist tool.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Similarly, Abu Ja’far Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah al-Haafiz al-Koofi, who is known as Mateen, told us: al-‘Ala’ ibn ‘Amr al-Hanafi told us: Yahya ibn Zayd al-Ash’ari told us: Ibn Jurayj told us, from Ibn 'Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Love the Arabs for three reasons: because I am an Arab, the Qur’aan is Arabic, and the language of the people of Paradise is Arabic.”