Arabic should become the single official national language in all muslim countries

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I love seeing Kushan getting called out, when only a Bangladeshi considers him a pure Pashtun, you know something is wrong.

Anyways........that's hilarious, Khalqis invented Dari, the Khalqis despite their despicable cooperation with the Soviets actually had a Pashtunization policy of education. Would make no sense for them to make Dari when they wanted to promote Pashto.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

How so? Do elaborate.

Well ok let me break it down;


1.) During What the Islamic "Ulama" call the period of "Khalifa Rashideen", mind you, I'm only using these terms as a reference, I'm not claiming that I accept that narrative in its entirety. It was probably one of the most tumultuous eras of Islamic history. I would have characterized this was the stage of "tribal warfare". This doesn't mean that tribal rife didn't happen later but that the major "fitnah" would be during this era, as can be evident by the situation with Yazid and Muwayiah and that whole story.

2.) The Ummayad period was when there were "Mawalis" and could be described as "Arab Supremacist", but this was also in relation to the fact they were derived from the Opportunists that usurped the power dynamic of Muslims from those who were more sincerely concerned with Religion rather than power itself. Their concern was more to do with ensuring they could reap material benefit rather than spreading religion and this can be detailed by their indulgence and excesses



3.) The Abbasiyah overthrew the Ummayads; some could argue that this was also a "tribal" rivalry; but the Abbasiyyah were in cooperation with the 'Ajam (Eastern Non-Arab Muslims). Even if we say that was more a strategic alliance, but it was one which benefited the 'Ajam as the Abbasiyah not only gave way for 'Ajamis a chance to restore their cultural identities they also provided autonomy by building alliances with Ajami leaders. Which was much more diplomatic. Imperialism while always cunning is rarely, if ever so diplomatic. We need only observe the French or British if we want to see how actual imperialism, cultural, territorial or otherwise is concerned. which is why historians generally characterize European colonial period as being defacto imperilaism.

4.) I agree with you on the original role of the Mamluks, the main reason for the advent of Mamluks is because they couldn't develop loyalties for regional Sheikhdoms who might be interested in challenging the Khalifa, but that had less to do with deeming Non-Arabs inferior as it did with ensuring their political stability. The 'Ajami Sultans under the Abbasiyyah also used Mamluks for the same reasons. The practice of having Mamluks was just a political strategy of the day. The Abbasiyyah didn't lose control because of tribal rivalry; they lost control because empires eventually wane and they gave Mamluks increasing prestige and influence and 'Ajami leaders like the Ayyubids started to replace the Abbassiyah just naturally.

That's what lead the Mamluks along with the Ayyubids really gained influence by the crusades with the Ayyubids who both ruled over an Arab population. This wouldn't have been possible if the power dynamic was primarily Arab at that time or if it were Arab fiefdoms vying for power.

[Azmal]

Whatever the case is; your argument here would negate your previous suggestion that Islam was an instrument to promote Arab cultural values, customs and mores. If you admit that Islam aimed to improve Arab cultural practices because Arab culture had toxic customs; then this would demonstrate that Islam is not an instrument for Arab cultural norms and practices. Also the burying of daughters is one issue that had become obsolete by the time Islam established control of the Arabian peninsula; and it wasn't even stressed after Islam spread outwards. It wouldn't suffice to suggest that Islam was only relevant to the Arabs using only one example, because by that time, the practice had ceased.
You're kind of arguing between two narratives here. The Arabization of the Levant happened much more gradually. Are you aware of the Nabatean and Ghassanid Arabs who were inhabiting Palestine , Syria and Lebanon prior to Islam? They were already speaking Arabic. What happened here wasn't a cultural imperialism, because the Non-Arabs who adopted Arabic did so because their previous languages simply lost usage and became antiquated.

And you're actually incorrect, according to many Narrators and Historians, Muhammad was "Adnani" which means his ancestors came from Iraq and were not originally Arab but adopted Arabic when they came to the Arabian Peninsula.

This is what happened with the Predcessor languages of Pashto too. Pashto didn't exist 5000 years ago. What existed were Soghdian, Parthian and Avestan (not in that order of course) ...Pashto just evolved from other regional languages and people began adopting it. That is just how languages transition.

What is culture to you? How you define culture? What I mean by culture being used as a value-laden synonym for civilization. Culture evolves and changes just as Islam did to Arabs but it did not make them less Arab. Moreover Arabs are cultural/linguistic group not racial, so the 50th forefather of Prophet Mohammad has no significance here.
Burying alive, number of wives, Eid celebration, Haj-a home build by prophet Ibrahim forefather of Arabs, fasting and etc. were only unique to Arabs. Some practice carried after Islam and some abandon but it did not de-Arabized the Arabs as the advanced of Islam has done to North African, Syrians and Lebanese. Thanks to Abu Muslims and Safari we were saved.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

What is culture to you? How you define culture? What I mean by culture being used as a value-laden synonym for civilization. Culture evolves and changes just as Islam did to Arabs but it did not make them less Arab. Moreover Arabs are cultural/linguistic group not racial, so the 50th forefather of Prophet Mohammad has no significance here.
Burying alive, number of wives, Eid celebration, Haj-a home build by prophet Ibrahim forefather of Arabs, fasting and etc. were only unique to Arabs. Some practice carried after Islam and some abandon but it did not de-Arabized the Arabs as the advanced of Islam has done to North African, Syrians and Lebanese. Thanks to Abu Muslims and Safari we were saved.

That's a very striking point; because this is where the mark between Islam being an "Arab imperialism" vs. Islam not nullifying the identity of the Arabs really makes a clear distinction. You're right it didn't somehow magically transform Arabs into Non-Arabs; but it changed their culture, the point being that rather than Arabs using Islam to make to expand spread their culture, Islam enlisted Arabs to spread Islam. Islam BECAME the culture of the Arabs (not entirely because we cannot deny the existence of Non-Muslim Arabs even till later) but it wasn't their native culture.

For the very reason you state here; it couldn't become an Arab Imperialism because it was changing their culture as well. Islam was its own social and cultural force. What you're saying about Hajj I half-agree with. Pagan Arab tribes of Makkah definitely considered themselves the custodians of the Ka'aba, but it is untrue that only Arabs went there. Archeaologists suggest that they had Mesoptomanian, Babylonian, Phoenecian, Greek, Aryan and Hindu deities in the Ka'aba. This is how trade routes between the Hijaz and places like Syria and Turkey were able to thrive.

Here is how I'd define culture; and I'm not claiming this to be a scholastic definition or a definition you must accept, but it is a definition that seems workable in the context of our discourse. Culture are the customs, ideals, beliefs, principles, ethics and world views, lifestyle and habits that give a distinct characteristic to a society.

[IcancryifIwantto]

I would burn lef to ya and A to Z. **** imperial influences. Its too late now that we are stupid enough to die for their wars and kill each other over their products.

[IcancryifIwantto]

By having Arabic as our formal language we will have access to a vast field of academic literature.

which academic literature?

[IcancryifIwantto]

Bismillah wal7amdulilah Wa salaatu wa salaam 3alaa rasoolillah wa 3alaa aalihi wa sa7bihi wa man walaa

As salaamu 3alaykum wa ra7matullah

Most muslims lack basic understanding of Arabic. This is a problem because they cannot read Quran and understand it. Which means when they pray they dont know what they are saying during prayer.

Aside from practical application for the individual, it is also of benefit for the society.

Most muslim countries have different ethnic groups with different languages. No language is superior except Arabic because it is the language of Quran.

By having Arabic as the only official language, all ethnic groups can preserve their own language and culture and apply the formal language for formality like higher education, public administration and international relations.

Another benefit is that if our children learn more than one language in early age it will make them more intelligent.

Likewise there are many other benefits in having Arabic as the official language.


Please share your thoughts.

First of all, no, **** no to you and your arab religion.

[IcancryifIwantto]

There is no VAST academic literature, only classical literature which would be a small section of humanitarians.

There is nothing else! no literature in developments of science, no math, no philosophy, nothing else.

The Quran has hijacked people's relationship with god. It is only a token of authority and is actually a very limited piece of classical literature. Which we over analyze simply because the first thing established is acceptance of this piece of literature as the most superior, as its production is metaphysical in source.

Afghanistan is not a country it will always be a people. The idea of country has failed for many, it is no longer a romantic dream possible.

actually... yes perhaps this is the natural course now that we have failed, the natural course is to either adopt English as a national language or Arabic.

LMAO, actually I don't mind learning Arabic, I know Arabic not classical but Egyptian dialect a little, I don't see anything wrong with it. But please keep this whole Quran being the reason for why we should learn Arabic out of it, it is misleading people... you shouldn't learn Arabic for Islam but because it is a language that has access to businesses by establishing relations with the Arabs. Islam is the worse thing ever that happened to Afghanistan.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Mahmoud Al-Yemeni, a.k.a. Brown Skinned Coward, the Coward who was too afraid to admit his Arab origins and identity when he first started trolling the forum with this new nick (previous nicks were Herat [a Tajik separatist and Islamophobic atheist], RevolutionThroughReason and ScimitarXedge) is failing in his pathetic attempts to promote Arab nationalism and belittle Pashto.

Link: Mahmoud the Coward denying his true identity.

1. Pashto is the official language of tens of millions of people, more people speak Pashto than live in the whole of Scandinavia i.e. Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark etc.

2. Pashto is experiencing a revival.

For example read this thread:

Link: Thousands of Pashto books being published.

3. What idiots like Coward a.k.a Mahmoud Al-Yemeni as he is also known, don't know is that the famous Persian scholars of Islam e.g. Ghazali, Razi and others also wrote in their native Persian and did not discourage its use.

The holy Quran has never explicitly said that Arabic has some "fadl" (virtue) to it than other languages, though of course it should be learnt just as English the de facto global language should now be learnt.


4. Even in Arab countries, the use of local dialects in a more formal context is increasing:

a: Documentaries in colloquial Arabic e.g. darija in Morocco (something unthinkable in the past).

b: Regular use of ammiyah in social media e.g. facebook, which bypasses the heavy conjugation of fushaa (standard Arabic).

So if even Mahmoud Al-Yemenis/Coward fellow Arab brothers and sisters are trying to promote their local vernaculars why shouldn't Pashtuns promote their own local language?

Mahmoud Al-Yemeni a.k.a Brown Skinned Coward and his obsession with promoting Arab nationalism and belittling the Pashto language and promoting Arabic in preference to it are going nowhere.

Pashto is actually growing and is being used more and more, particularly due to the expansion of internet usage.


Mahmoud a.k.a Coward

[Damir9000]

Firstly, It will never happen. Nobody got the time for it.
Time is money.

Secondly, Nobody understands the Ancient Arabic in the quran.
It's like Old English. It has become obsolete.
Modern Arabic and Quranic arabic are NOT the same thing.
Like someone already said; arabs don't really understand the ancient arabic of the quran either.

Finally, arabic is a ****ty language.
Why do you think the quran always gets mistranslated? Nobody really knows the real meaning.
How are you going to teach a language that nobody fully understands.

[Damir9000]

Well arabic also will be the Primary language in Jannah if i am not wrong

LOL

Are Abraham, Moses, Jesus etc studying their Arabic right now? Muhammad must be lonely.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

I agree, for instance most madressas or Islamic institutions in UK teach Urdu (because most of the teachers were mostly from south Asia) and as a result all islamic teaching/learning is done from Urdu books, many big Islamic conferences, tuition and speeches are conducted in the Urdu language - in terms of learning a language its done great with much success as almost everyone i know that went to madressa regardless of ethnicity and language can understand if not all speak Urdu. Still this has not improved the consciousness and understanding the Quran or elevated their wisdom since they do not understand the language of the Quran. This Urdu that is learnt just aids people in understanding Indian movies rather than serve the purpose of them learning the language. I have also witnessed many people yawning and fidgeting in Salah but then i've seen the same people siting attentively in a Urdu lecture. My point is quite basic and the same as Shamlawar's: its a necessity to understand the Quran - know what you are saying and reading instead of listening and repeating like a parrot. Its only justice to ones self.

Becareful Bengal_Tiger might accuse you of being an Arab Nationalist now for agreeing.

[Damir9000]

Mahmoud Al-Yemeni, a.k.a. Brown Skinned Coward, the Coward who was too afraid to admit his Arab origins and identity when he first started trolling the forum with this new nick (previous nicks were Herat [a Tajik separatist and Islamophobic atheist], RevolutionThroughReason and ScimitarXedge) is failing in his pathetic attempts to promote Arab nationalism and belittle Pashto.

Link: Mahmoud the Coward denying his true identity.

1. Pashto is the official language of tens of millions of people, more people speak Pashto than live in the whole of Scandinavia i.e. Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark etc.

2. Pashto is experiencing a revival.

For example read this thread:

Link: Thousands of Pashto books being published.

3. What idiots like Coward a.k.a Mahmoud Al-Yemeni as he is also known, don't know is that the famous Persian scholars of Islam e.g. Ghazali, Razi and others also wrote in their native Persian and did not discourage its use.

The holy Quran has never explicitly said that Arabic has some "fadl" (virtue) to it than other languages, though of course it should be learnt just as English the de facto global language should now be learnt.


4. Even in Arab countries, the use of local dialects in a more formal context is increasing:

a: Documentaries in colloquial Arabic e.g. darija in Morocco (something unthinkable in the past).

b: Regular use of ammiyah in social media e.g. facebook, which bypasses the heavy conjugation of fushaa (standard Arabic).

So if even Mahmoud Al-Yemenis/Coward fellow Arab brothers and sisters are trying to promote their local vernaculars why shouldn't Pashtuns promote their own local language?

Mahmoud Al-Yemeni a.k.a Brown Skinned Coward and his obsession with promoting Arab nationalism and belittling the Pashto language and promoting Arabic in preference to it are going nowhere.

Pashto is actually growing and is being used more and more, particularly due to the expansion of internet usage.


Mahmoud a.k.a Coward

[DaZahroJaam.]

well..
i, being an afghan with the blood of dari and pashto speakers running through my veins, will never be able to consider, accept, tolerate compare, prefer or value any other language over those two. after all, it would be ever so immoral of me to expect any different from the two of you...
now, a mother's tongue having the nature of prominence rather than any other would easily explain the two of you preferring pashto and arabic....the only thing i fail to understand is why you would avoid making arabic being your second language more obvious until this point of time...

why, sheikh manzareh and al shamlawar khurasani, it happens so that neither one of you have never mentioned being fathered by arabs before... how interesting..congratulations on finally finding the courage to speak out the truth.

[Brown Skinned Savage]

Strange Jealous Bengal_Tiger is talking about a language he can't speak in some desperate attempt to win favor from Pashtuns But yet he praises The Russian Invaders of Afghanistan that committed genocide of Pashtuns.

exhibit A, Bengal_Tiger's Putin's "Appreciation" thread. Where he posts flattering propaganda & commentary for Vladimir Putin

"http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=39507&highlight=Putin"]http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=39507&highlight=Putin

Now who was Vladmir Putin to Pashtuns?

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/putin-evokes-tolstoy-26-years-after-soviet-troops-pulled-out-of-afghanistan/515940.html

When years pass and more facts become known, we more clearly understand the reason why Soviet troops were sent to Afghanistan," Putin said Sunday at a meeting with war veterans' organizations, according to the Kremlin's website. "Many mistakes were made but there were real threats that Soviet authorities had tried to thwart by sending soldiers to Afghanistan."

Here Putin defends and praises the Soviet Invasion that Brutally murdered 1 million Pashtuns. And Bengal Tiger is a patron of Putin, makes threads about him and glorifies those that have tried to extinguish Islam , and exterminate Pashtuns.


Exhibit B

Here forum member Kushan Saka, not to be confused with the Imposter Pashtun-wannabe, Kushan_Prince, admonishes Bengal for his blatant Pro Putin/Russia Worship on a PASHTUN forum. Revealing that Bengal has exposed his treachery to Muslims and PASHTUNS alike.

Putin slaughtered Muslims in Chechnya and he is oppressing and killing Muslim Tatars in Crimea because they dont accept to be Russian slaves. Many Tatars left Crimea because of that and settled in Ukraine and joined Ukrainian forces against Russian invaders in eastern Ukraine. In a ideal world Tatars in Crimea should have their own country but during Ukrainian rule they were at least tolerated and had some kind of Autonomy, so practically all of them are pro-Ukrainian.

I really dont get why so many people love Putin and adore Russia. Putin is a small, gay, ugly and arrogant corrupt former KGB agent, war criminal who bombed russian cities and than claimed that muslim chechens did it and now he who wants to be the new Hitler or Stalin (or both). Russia is overrated and their army is crap, it is strong enough to invade and terrorize small countries like Georgia or Ukraine but the NATO would slaughter them in a month because of their outdated weapons. Russia is today a place full of Alcoholics, Nazis, Prostitutes, Criminals, Drug dealers and ****s and in many aspects even more morally degenerated than the West. Russians are poorer than Indians on average and have the most corrupt government in the world, which treats 99% of the russian population like slaves. Russian Industry (except arms and alcohol industry) is almost producing nothing and can only dig some stuff and sell it. Russians are just incapable in creating a modern, stable and strong economy which is not based on oil. Without oil they would be a third world country

Putins Russia is a disgusting mix of Stalinism, Tsarim and Fascism. He is worse than Bush and just because USA, EU and NATO are imperialist powers, Russia is not automatically the saviour of the free world. Actually Russian Imperalism killed much more people than German Fascism and it were Russians who killed more than one million Afghans some decades ago. Putin is just crazy and he will probably invade Central Asia in some years because he has to "protects" the Russian minority. Than his hordes of alcoholics will slaughter Muslims in Central asia like they slaughter Ukrainians, Chechens and Crimean Tatars now. Russia has a long history of persecution of Muslims.

I like you Bengal_Tiger but please be careful about posting cheap nazi russian, imperalistic, putin praising propaganda here. You watch probably to much RT, which is good at telling american war crimes but ignores russian war crimes and is just making cheap russian propaganda. Russians spend much more money for propaganda than Americans and desperately try to convince people with cheap propaganda that they defend themself when they invade and destroy another country. Just because the west has treated us Muslims like **** in the last decade, we should not be naive about Russia and believe their propaganda.

Bengal Tiger's Con-Act as a "Sincere Muslim Brother" is one tactic he learned from his Former Punjabi rulers. Desperately trying to disguise his hatred for Muslims and Islam...and his secret resentment of Pashtuns. can someone that praises the Russian vermin that killed Pashtuns with impunity really be an ally of Pashtuns?

He's now in a desperate position amongst Authentic Pashtuns, not imposters like Prince & Football , and makes a slew of pathetic "Appreciation Threads" , in a feeble act to try to BUY support and protection as he's aware that Pashtuns ON THE WHOLE, except for a select few look down on him as an Indic Parasite that hides behind "Islam, blinding others with Chaplous (empty flattery)

Is it not Bizarre that this Banglaeshi Anti-Muslim, rather than work to clean and purify his culture of Brothels, His Bangladeshi sisters that pose topless for White Kafir American companies, Transgenders and Sex industry, the Hallmarks of the anti-Islamic nature of Bangali Culture is fixated with Pashtuns, who he feels inferior to?

[MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION]
[MENTION=18140]Kushan Saka[/MENTION]
[MENTION=1547]khushal[/MENTION]
[MENTION=1902]randolph85[/MENTION]
[MENTION=103]tor_khan[/MENTION]
[MENTION=1753]Manzareh[/MENTION]
[MENTION=18674]Insight[/MENTION]
[MENTION=17802]mixxedpashtana[/MENTION]
[MENTION=1441]Gulalai[/MENTION] [MENTION=1470]torkham[/MENTION]
@Shamlawar Khurasaani [MENTION=17535]jankhan[/MENTION] [MENTION=18842]History of Pashtuns[/MENTION] [MENTION=2329]Karachi[/MENTION]