Pew Poll: Sharia Law and Afghanistan

[BarakzaiAbdali]

yes we should call a spade a spade .
-this war has been devatating and totally not worth it.
-people have been killed maimed dispalced and many forms of cancers are on the rise.
-there is no justice and warlords are doing whatever they want like:
grabing people land (sayaf in paghman)
the killing and evicting of kuchis
alp anp and militia rape at will
Afghan parliament is a hub of corruption
afghan president is on payroll
iran is killing afghans and the pro iranian media is silent about it.
zikria kandahari and shujayee on a rampage
selling out afghan resources way under the market value
these are some examples im sure the list is long

THESE ARE THE THINGS WE SHOULD MENTION
INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY MALIGNING THE POOR ILLITERATE AFGHANS.

most of those involved in crime and corruption are either from diaspora or the supposed educated elite in kabul and not the poor illiterate villager.

Thanks, That was an excellent article.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Im gonna go eat, but thanks for the challenging discussion (except for Toramana who will undoubtedly troll this way in his grief ) Im on call tomorrow the whole day so except any responses sunday.

[Admin Khan]

we have had proper leaders, depends on your definition of "proper." i would say any leader that wasn't appointed by foreigners, no matter how horrible at his job he was. the puppets are different and even among the puppets there is a great difference.

karzai is a puppet but he is a buffoon, i don't think he is consciously evil. he is corrupt, thinks he is doing what is right. an ignorant idiot.

najib was also a puppet, but he was no buffoon, by all accounts he was openly antagonistic to islam, was a cruel person that murdered people by his own hand and only played the role of peace maker when he knew his days were numbered.

Can you name any? I'm curious.

[Admin Khan]

yes we should call a spade a spade .
-this war has been devatating and totally not worth it.
-people have been killed maimed dispalced and many forms of cancers are on the rise.
-there is no justice and warlords are doing whatever they want like:
grabing people land (sayaf in paghman)
the killing and evicting of kuchis
alp anp and militia rape at will
Afghan parliament is a hub of corruption
afghan president is on payroll
iran is killing afghans and the pro iranian media is silent about it.
zikria kandahari and shujayee on a rampage
selling out afghan resources way under the market value
these are some examples im sure the list is long

Agreed, no one is defending Karzai, or those who kill innocent civilians. I suppose that was a rant, nonetheless I agree with your rant for the most part.

THESE ARE THE THINGS WE SHOULD MENTION
INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY MALIGNING THE POOR ILLITERATE AFGHANS.

If our nation was composed of literate of folks, that list you compiled would not have been that long.

most of those involved in crime and corruption are either from diaspora or the supposed educated elite in kabul and not the poor illiterate villager.

Precisely, the 'supposed' con-artists are selling out the nation. No one is blaming illiterate folks; Dagarwala, my point is not that. I am saying if we make Afghan illiterate folks literate, and teach them critical thinking and problem-solving, that will greatly reduce Afghanistans dependence on Iran and Pakistan, and the constant-bickering we hear from Afghans. Literacy is a problem, we can't constantly romanticize the past, that is NOT working and the nation is continuing its path to backwardism. My apologies if my hawkish views are coming off in a way you might not be able to comprehend, but rest assured what I am saying is if the youth of Afghanistan is not educated, they will end up as another lost generation, subdued by regional spy-agencies.

[randolph85]

Can you name any? I'm curious.

by my definition, any leader prior to to qadir dagarwal in 1978 minus a shah shuja or 2. proper not meaning good, but homegrown and bred.

[Admin Khan]

Once again, intelligence and modality of punishment are not tied at the hip. Bernie Madoff spending life in jail versus Bernie madoff recieving the Quranic punishment have no bearing on that 18 year olds intelligence. Rather it speaks to his value system which he has a right to.

If Afghans truly, consciously, want Shariah Law, then they will get what they want. However, my problem is the "plus-tax". What does that mean? It means without knowing, and properly understanding Shariah-law, and knowing how uneducated and illiterate the nation has become after 40 years of bombing, who elaborates on what Shariah is, and how to implement it? Shariah goes by interpretation of the scholars; Afghanistan does NOT have scholars. You will have a segment of population claiming that your iPhone is Haram cause it can play YouTube videos, and how do you counter that? Especially when arms are out in the open? How do we prevent stadiums from becoming execution arenas? These are the questions that are out in the open, and one must ponder over them rather rationally. Shariah Law, if properly applied, can do wonders. But it can also take a nation to a stone age if one begins to come up with their o own laws(here comes the plus tax). I'll give you an example, in Kandahar, men began marrying children(age 9 or so), and literally had wedding festivals, to which many folks attended, claiming it was okay and allowed in Islam, since Islam encourages love. Now in an educated society, where critical thinking exists, the aforementioned would NOT have had happened. I also want to bring back our attention to the PEW survey, my problem with them claiming Afghans want Shariah, is not that Afghans want it, its that at this point Afghans for the most part don't know what Shariah is, nor do they know how to apply it, which is why they need folks like you, or theologists(we have a ton here in New York, of Afghan origin)to educate their fellow brethren.

Afghan Americans run about 6 Mosques in New York City, and the Imams and leaders are Afghans, these are the folks that need to educate the nation. In Medicine, it is your duty(you are not obliged to)to educate the nation. Although I can understand why you would be hesitant to help, because:
A)Their refusal to listen(which is normal after 40 years of backwardness)
B)Corruption, and scandals.
C)Incompetent folks with leading positions, that are there without merit.


The survey once again, Admin, does not comment on the cousins desire to learn about the slope of the tangent line. Rather it gives us insight into how when an idiot like Najib or Karzai thinks that he will cram the slope of the tangent line down a villagers throat by forcing a different value system on him ---> blowback may occur and the poor villager may associate the slope of the tangent line with interventionalism and that enforced value system. That is why the Kabul government, being an imposed entity, will embolden blowback. The diaspora in Kabul and those like that Naz singer that pissed off tribal people in Kandahar when she sang in front of men are not teaching villagers about slopes of tangent lines... they are using interventionalism to enforce the notions on people that dont want them.

I think you are right, but most of the frustrations Afghans have with Karzai is the fact that for all the aid given, you haven't shown us much for it. I am almost inclined to say that Afghans would be okay with learning the slope of a tangent line, provided that Karzai builds PolyTechnic Institutions, Liberal Arts schools like Yale, or mighty Engineering schools like MIT, and for all the aid he has received, the aforementioned does not sound far-fetched. What is sad, and despicable about the Karzai administration is that even he himself has no clue where the most of the money went. Afghans are illiterate, and when a nation is illiterate, to allow them to make blind decisions, when we know they are headed on the wrong path is condemnable.

I would agree that the Taliban took over during at turbulent period, and it is wrong for one to assume that the Taliban[i.e the Afghan portion of it]ever had a proper chance at governing the nation, at the end of the day, the Taliban was composed of Afghans, who are the son of that soil; but the fact is we saw what happens when a nation is illiterate. Pakistan easily found some stooges in the group, and literally used those stooges to the nation back year by year, using heavy force. Even the senior Taliban commanders couldn't figure out why some of the folks in their own group were acting bizarre; which subsequently lead to them hanging their own group members in Kandahar stadium. The point I am trying to draw from this is when a nation is illiterate, regional countries will take advantage of you.


Once again, the survey does not comment on whether Afghans want to know how to measure blood pressure accurately and whether they would accept that. Rather it talks about what penal code and value system they prefer. That penal code and value system have no bearing on learning how to do blood pressure measurements.


Once again, if Afghans want Shariah Law, what assurance can you give me that :
A)They know what Shariah Law is
B)They will implement is properly.

Their literacy rate makes me cringe; think about it.

I would say the evidence shows predominantly because of the foreign policy blunders of all of them relative to eachother. Mutual cooperation would hardly diminish their standing. Thats like saying the European Union countries have regional interests and want to see eachother weak in this day and age where none of them have real empires in the traditional context. Britain is hardly concerned with France's reach at this point etc. and vice versa. They have realized they should respect eachothers autonomy and cooperate in the union (though some might say the Cyprus mess shows they were duped in just how much cooperation).


BA, history tells us that because Afghans haven't criticized themselves, or hold hawkish views about themselves(as opposed to Afghans romanticizing their past)foreigners have found it easy to divide and conquer, and swim in the blood of Afghans. If Afghans were critical thinkers and problem-solvers, which unfortunately hasn't been possible to foreign interference, civilians wouldn't be blowing up on a daily basis. Afghans lack unity, and don't emphasize education. The aforementioned is a fact.

[Admin Khan]

I have to work on finishing up this video game BA; I learned a lot from you, and look forward to your response. Nice to have healthy debates, where I hope we can learn from each other and find a mutual path which we can work on.

[Karachi]

Sharia law has to be defined first before implementation, the worse thing that could happen is illiterate mullahs taking over the system

We need proper educated muslims for this system, who know every single thing in the Quran and Strong Hadiths. With out that, the system will become corrupt like any other system and we will start chopping people's heads and hands for reasons that we shouldn't

[JAMALUDEEN]

had to single this out because of its ridiculousness. u can't be serious can u? what respect did najib deserve? even his grave doesn't deserve respect. If anything, the talibs should be criticized for letting that POS have a proper funeral.

umm.. your personal sentiments aside.. He was still our leader and deserved some respect..

[randolph85]

umm.. your personal sentiments aside.. He was still our leader and deserved some respect..

how was he our leader? because the soviets chose him to succeed the guy they appointed and then exiled, after they murdered the guy before him?

i don't respect mass murderers. i especially don't respect mass murderers who are personally anti islam, granted their prestigious position by foreigners, and was only able to hold on to power by slaughtering his own by the hundreds of thousands.

respect...

[JAMALUDEEN]

how was he our leader? because the soviets chose him to succeed the guy they appointed and then exiled, after they murdered the guy before him?

i don't respect mass murderers. i especially don't respect mass murderers who are personally anti islam, granted their prestigious position by foreigners, and was only able to hold on to power by slaughtering his own by the hundreds of thousands.

respect...

oh well.. you are entitled to have your own sentiments and opinions... don't make them true or valid...

rofl all you want..

[randolph85]

oh well.. you are entitled to have your own sentiments and opinions... don't make them true or valid...

rofl all you want..

how is anything i have said about najib not true?

[JAMALUDEEN]

how is anything i have said about najib not true?

because you are emotionally involved in the discussion... no matter how much we will argue about "Respect" you will not be satisfied..

[khushal]

]. [/B]

If Afghans truly, consciously, want Shariah Law, then they will get what they want. However, my problem is the "plus-tax". What does that mean? It means without knowing, and properly understanding Shariah-law, and knowing how uneducated and illiterate the nation has become after 40 years of bombing, who elaborates on what Shariah is, and how to implement it? Shariah goes by interpretation of the scholars; Afghanistan does NOT have scholars. You will have a segment of population claiming that your iPhone is Haram cause it can play YouTube videos, and how do you counter that? Especially when arms are out in the open? How do we prevent stadiums from becoming execution arenas? These are the questions that are out in the open, and one must ponder over them rather rationally. Shariah Law, if properly applied, can do wonders. But it can also take a nation to a stone age if one begins to come up with their o own laws(here comes the plus tax). I'll give you an example, in Kandahar, men began marrying children(age 9 or so), and literally had wedding festivals, to which many folks attended, claiming it was okay and allowed in Islam, since Islam encourages love. Now in an educated society, where critical thinking exists, the aforementioned would NOT have had happened. I also want to bring back our attention to the PEW survey, my problem with them claiming Afghans want Shariah, is not that Afghans want it, its that at this point Afghans for the most part don't know what Shariah is, nor do they know how to apply it, which is why they need folks like you, or theologists(we have a ton here in New York, of Afghan origin)to educate their fellow brethren.

Afghan Americans run about 6 Mosques in New York City, and the Imams and leaders are Afghans, these are the folks that need to educate the nation. In Medicine, it is your duty(you are not obliged to)to educate the nation. Although I can understand why you would be hesitant to help, because:
A)Their refusal to listen(which is normal after 40 years of backwardness)
B)Corruption, and scandals.
C)Incompetent folks with leading positions, that are there without merit.

Admin Khana,
Most of the people in my village are illiterate. They dont really understand the Quran, they read it in Arabic and have memorized certain ayats in Arabic and have no idea behind the meaning of them but they are very conservative. This conservativeness is the true inherent nature of the people in villages all over Afghanistan. You and I can never break this inherent nature, this is done through many, many generation and if you try to force it, the reaction is counterproductive to your goal. Blowback.

[MostafaM]

Admin Khana,
Most of the people in my village are illiterate. They dont really understand the Quran, they read it in Arabic and have memorized certain ayats in Arabic and have no idea behind the meaning of them but they are very conservative. This conservativeness is the true inherent nature of the people in villages all over Afghanistan. You and I can never break this inherent nature, this is done through many, many generation and if you try to force it, the reaction is counterproductive to your goal. Blowback.

What kind of an arguement is this?

You equal conservatism to illiteracy and ignorance.

How can a person promote or advocate something that he doesn´t understand (in this case Sharia Law aka an Islamic System)?

Khushala,
sometimes you say really weird stuff and I don´t know if you are joking or being serious.

Since you are from Paktia, you know that not Sharia Law is governing those people but tribal law. And Pashtunwali is as far away from Islamic Law than democracy is.