Are Pakistani Pashtuns considered Afghan?

[TolloAfghanSpinDai]

Pashtuns living past the Durrand Line...

[Badlun]

Every Pashtun living anywhere in the world is an ethnic Afghan but not a citizen Afghan. Only the citizens of Afghanistan both Pashtuns and non Pashtuns are Afghans in political sense. The real problem is the increasing distance between Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line. Here I would like to share an article written by me and posted some where else here.

No Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan but bridging the distance between Pashtuns on both sides of Durand line by non political means

I see Pashtuns talking about Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan (Greater Afghanistan) but I just see them talking no body is taking any action. These are all imaginative plans which have nothing to do with the reality so far. That’s why the only reality is the status quo, where we are. In the present circumstances nothing will change. Pakistan will never let its Pashtun parts to be ceded and Afghanistan is never asking for it or doing any thing for it. For Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan I don’t see any serious movement neither in Pakistan nor in Afghanistan.

Pashtun nationalist parties in Pakistan like ANP and PMAP are involved in pure Pakistani politics. They swear by the constitution of Pakistan and never talk of separation from Pakistan and joining Loy Afghanistan or creating Pashtunistan. I don’t see any mass movement in the streets of Pakistan for Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan. These are only internet slogans by very few Pashtuns but in the real life there is no struggle going on for these goals. I don’t know any party or group like Baloch liberation Army fighting in the real sense for any independent Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan. Pashtun nationalists talk only of Pashtun rights within Pakistan but never talk of dismembering Pakistan and creating a new entity. We don’t see any struggle on the pattern of Bengalis for Bangladesh. Rather many Pakistanis are quite happy in Pakistan and will never look to the worn torn Afghanistan as their abode.
The same situation can be witnessed in Afghanistan. We don’t have a single party or group struggling for Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan. Afghan government never asks for Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan from Pakistan and will never sacrifice its non Pashtun parts for any pure Pashtun state. All non Pashtuns are considered equal Afghans and Afghanistan will never leave its non Pashtuns Afghans for Pashtuns of Pakistan. The only reality emerges in this scenario is the status quo. But it does not mean Pashtuns cease to be the same race or ethnic group. They remain brethren in Pashtunwali and speakers of the same language.


Keeping in view the reality of no possibility of any political unity, the only path remains is non political. I am extremely worried about the increasing distance between the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan. If some serious efforts are not taken Pashtuns on both sides of the border, Pashtuns will deem themselves as different races or ethnicities. Yes races or ethnicities because already they belong to two different nations, Pakistani and Afghanistani or afghan.

Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line belong to one family, one blood, one language and one culture, one past but now being part of two different countries, distance is increasing between them. Pashtuns in Pakistan are coming under influence of Punjabis and Urdu speakers and Pashtuns in Afghanistan are coming under influence of Tajiks and Persian speakers.

We have to work and suggest that how Pashtuns on both sides can be culturally and linguistically united? Their cultural and linguistic unity is the only possibility as their political unity is now an unattainable dream. We have to devise pragmatic strategies that how distance between Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line can be reduced and they may come together at least culturally psychologically and linguistically if not politically. Pashtuns must be realistic in their approach. Some Pashtuns on both sides want merger of Pashtuns areas which is impossible as how Afghanistan will leave its non -Pashtun areas to be merged with Pashtun areas for a greater Pashtunistan. This is impossible, and how Pakistan will let its Pashtun areas to be separated, that would be too impossible for Pakistan.

As the distance between the Pashtuns living in Afghanistan and Pakistan is increasing we must learn from nations who speak the same language and have the same culture but are politically different and belong to different nations or countries and are citizens of different states. For example all Arab, Spanish, German, French ,English speaking people are not the citizens of the same countries but psychologically ,linguistically , culturally , economically they have enormous ties and try to develop linkages which further strengthen their bonds

We Pashtuns on both sides of the border if cant become one nation politically at least can feel one ethnic group and sons of the same father living in different houses . We must encourage connections with each other by marriages, conferences and friendships. We must feel near to an Afghan Pashtun than to a Pakistani Panjabi and vice versa

The concern is also about the increasing distance of Pashto language spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. There is a marked difference in vocabulary of the Pashto spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Afghanistani Pashto is influenced by Persian while Pakistani Pashto by Urdu or English. Here the solution is using pure Pashto words neither of Persian nor Urdu nor English. This will bridge the linguistic difference

However, the difference of accent is geographical not political. It does not depend on Pakistan or Afghanistan. It’s not East West. Its North –South. There arer two main dialects in Pashto language. Hard dialect spoken in areas like Peshawar, Mardan, Swat, Malakand, Dir, Kohat, Paracinar, Jalalabad, Bajawar, Mohmand, Khyber,etc mainly in northern part of Pashto speaking areas. Soft dialect is spoken in Southern areas like Banu, Karak, Waziristan, Baluchistan, Qandahar, Paktya etc

I have rarely seen an Afghan Pashtun who intensely hate a Pakistani Pashtun or a Pakistani Pashtun who abhor an Afghan Pashtun but the gap between Pashtuns living in these two countries is really increasing day by day and which can be seen in various internet based forums and other social events of mixed communities specially in foreign countries. Even in Pakistan a Pashtun from Afghanistan is some times called Kabaley or kabuli with a tone of humiliation and Afghan Pashtuns consider the Pakistani Pashtuns to be lesser Pashtuns.

Pashtuns are responsible as well as only solvers for all their problems including the increasing gap between the Pashtuns on both sides of the border. I wish the bridge of the distance between Pashtuns on two sides of the Durand line should be minimized not further intensified. We should become realist and instead of talking or struggling for imaginative ideals like Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan may struggle for the cultural, linguistic, psychological and economic unity of Pashtuns living any where in the world including Afghanistan or Pakistan.
This should be however clear that Afghanistan remains the motherland of Pashtuns and Pashtuns and Pashto have the only real status there in Afghanistan. The only hope for the development of Pashto as a language is Afghanistan. In Pakistan Pashtuns should struggle for greater provincial autonomy and should create a bigger Pashtun province including Khyber Pashtunkhwah, FATA, and the Pashtun parts of Baluchistan. Pakistani Pashtuns should struggle for Pashtun rights within Pakistan and making Pashto the official language of the Pashtun areas.

[Kushan Prince]

Yes they are. I will always consider them Afghan whether they like it or not because Afghan means Pashtun.

[TolloAfghanSpinDai]

Every Pashtun living anywhere in the world is an ethnic Afghan but not a citizen Afghan. Only the citizens of Afghanistan both Pashtuns and non Pashtuns are Afghans in political sense. The real problem is the increasing distance between Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line. Here I would like to share an article written by me and posted some where else here.

No Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan but bridging the distance between Pashtuns on both sides of Durand line by non political means

I see Pashtuns talking about Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan (Greater Afghanistan) but I just see them talking no body is taking any action. These are all imaginative plans which have nothing to do with the reality so far. That’s why the only reality is the status quo, where we are. In the present circumstances nothing will change. Pakistan will never let its Pashtun parts to be ceded and Afghanistan is never asking for it or doing any thing for it. For Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan I don’t see any serious movement neither in Pakistan nor in Afghanistan.

Pashtun nationalist parties in Pakistan like ANP and PMAP are involved in pure Pakistani politics. They swear by the constitution of Pakistan and never talk of separation from Pakistan and joining Loy Afghanistan or creating Pashtunistan. I don’t see any mass movement in the streets of Pakistan for Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan. These are only internet slogans by very few Pashtuns but in the real life there is no struggle going on for these goals. I don’t know any party or group like Baloch liberation Army fighting in the real sense for any independent Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan. Pashtun nationalists talk only of Pashtun rights within Pakistan but never talk of dismembering Pakistan and creating a new entity. We don’t see any struggle on the pattern of Bengalis for Bangladesh. Rather many Pakistanis are quite happy in Pakistan and will never look to the worn torn Afghanistan as their abode.
The same situation can be witnessed in Afghanistan. We don’t have a single party or group struggling for Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan. Afghan government never asks for Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan from Pakistan and will never sacrifice its non Pashtun parts for any pure Pashtun state. All non Pashtuns are considered equal Afghans and Afghanistan will never leave its non Pashtuns Afghans for Pashtuns of Pakistan. The only reality emerges in this scenario is the status quo. But it does not mean Pashtuns cease to be the same race or ethnic group. They remain brethren in Pashtunwali and speakers of the same language.


Keeping in view the reality of no possibility of any political unity, the only path remains is non political. I am extremely worried about the increasing distance between the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan. If some serious efforts are not taken Pashtuns on both sides of the border, Pashtuns will deem themselves as different races or ethnicities. Yes races or ethnicities because already they belong to two different nations, Pakistani and Afghanistani or afghan.

Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line belong to one family, one blood, one language and one culture, one past but now being part of two different countries, distance is increasing between them. Pashtuns in Pakistan are coming under influence of Punjabis and Urdu speakers and Pashtuns in Afghanistan are coming under influence of Tajiks and Persian speakers.

We have to work and suggest that how Pashtuns on both sides can be culturally and linguistically united? Their cultural and linguistic unity is the only possibility as their political unity is now an unattainable dream. We have to devise pragmatic strategies that how distance between Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line can be reduced and they may come together at least culturally psychologically and linguistically if not politically. Pashtuns must be realistic in their approach. Some Pashtuns on both sides want merger of Pashtuns areas which is impossible as how Afghanistan will leave its non -Pashtun areas to be merged with Pashtun areas for a greater Pashtunistan. This is impossible, and how Pakistan will let its Pashtun areas to be separated, that would be too impossible for Pakistan.

As the distance between the Pashtuns living in Afghanistan and Pakistan is increasing we must learn from nations who speak the same language and have the same culture but are politically different and belong to different nations or countries and are citizens of different states. For example all Arab, Spanish, German, French ,English speaking people are not the citizens of the same countries but psychologically ,linguistically , culturally , economically they have enormous ties and try to develop linkages which further strengthen their bonds

We Pashtuns on both sides of the border if cant become one nation politically at least can feel one ethnic group and sons of the same father living in different houses . We must encourage connections with each other by marriages, conferences and friendships. We must feel near to an Afghan Pashtun than to a Pakistani Panjabi and vice versa

The concern is also about the increasing distance of Pashto language spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. There is a marked difference in vocabulary of the Pashto spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Afghanistani Pashto is influenced by Persian while Pakistani Pashto by Urdu or English. Here the solution is using pure Pashto words neither of Persian nor Urdu nor English. This will bridge the linguistic difference

However, the difference of accent is geographical not political. It does not depend on Pakistan or Afghanistan. It’s not East West. Its North –South. There arer two main dialects in Pashto language. Hard dialect spoken in areas like Peshawar, Mardan, Swat, Malakand, Dir, Kohat, Paracinar, Jalalabad, Bajawar, Mohmand, Khyber,etc mainly in northern part of Pashto speaking areas. Soft dialect is spoken in Southern areas like Banu, Karak, Waziristan, Baluchistan, Qandahar, Paktya etc

I have rarely seen an Afghan Pashtun who intensely hate a Pakistani Pashtun or a Pakistani Pashtun who abhor an Afghan Pashtun but the gap between Pashtuns living in these two countries is really increasing day by day and which can be seen in various internet based forums and other social events of mixed communities specially in foreign countries. Even in Pakistan a Pashtun from Afghanistan is some times called Kabaley or kabuli with a tone of humiliation and Afghan Pashtuns consider the Pakistani Pashtuns to be lesser Pashtuns.

Pashtuns are responsible as well as only solvers for all their problems including the increasing gap between the Pashtuns on both sides of the border. I wish the bridge of the distance between Pashtuns on two sides of the Durand line should be minimized not further intensified. We should become realist and instead of talking or struggling for imaginative ideals like Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan may struggle for the cultural, linguistic, psychological and economic unity of Pashtuns living any where in the world including Afghanistan or Pakistan.
This should be however clear that Afghanistan remains the motherland of Pashtuns and Pashtuns and Pashto have the only real status there in Afghanistan. The only hope for the development of Pashto as a language is Afghanistan. In Pakistan Pashtuns should struggle for greater provincial autonomy and should create a bigger Pashtun province including Khyber Pashtunkhwah, FATA, and the Pashtun parts of Baluchistan. Pakistani Pashtuns should struggle for Pashtun rights within Pakistan and making Pashto the official language of the Pashtun areas.

1.Look up Hyderabad tribunal, they censored the plot of independant Pakhtunistan by Pashtun nationalists.

2. There are two Pashtun centric parties in Afghanistan. The Afghan Mellat and the Pashtoon's social democratic party. I believe the communist government was also pashtun centric but they banned the two parties i mentioned above because they were right wing parties, not left wing. Many of them aspired to annex Pakistani pashtun.

3. A number of Loya jirga's were held concerning Afghanistan's property on FATA and NWFP, near 1947 when pakistan was recently concieved.

4. Balochistan's capital should be Qalat, why is the north knob of Balochistan not part of KPK. If Balochis get their own country, they should give Quetta and Pashtun lands to Afghanistan and make Qalat or Zahedan their capital.

5. Religious seperatism by Islamist fanatics in Pakistan occur in Pashtunistan 99% of the time, but this is religious seperatism, they aspire to divide from Pakistan and make a caliphate, which coincidently matches the geographic boundaries of Pakistan...

There's so many Pashtunistan movements happenining againts Pakistan, but Pashtunistan is overshadowed by Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan. Balochistan and Sindhudesh were visible causes because they weren't overshadowed by religion, they were clearly secular and ethnic causes, not religious. However in Iranian Balochistan, their seperatists are religious because of Shia-Sunni conflicts againts Iranian Persians, and their army is called Jundullah.

The American government was able to detain Iranian Balochi seperatists based on Religous fanaticism, but not Pakistan Baloch seperatists because Pakistani Baloch seperatists are secular because religious differences aren't aparent.

BTW, Afghanistan is landlocked, so if border changes don't happen, Pakistan and Afghanistan are close to partition anyways.... border changes are imminant, if countries are in a bad status ,the most likely future is partition into smaller countries, simple!

[Kushan Prince]

1.Look up Hyderabad tribunal, they censored the plot of independant Pakhtunistan by Pashtun nationalists.

2. There are two Pashtun centric parties in Afghanistan. The Afghan Mellat and the Pashtoon's social democratic party. I believe the communist government was also pashtun centric but they banned the two parties i mentioned above because they were right wing parties, not left wing. Many of them aspired to annex Pakistani pashtun.

3. A number of Loya jirga's were held concerning Afghanistan's property on FATA and NWFP, near 1947 when pakistan was recently concieved.

4. Balochistan's capital should be Qalat, why is the north knob of Balochistan not part of KPK. If Balochis get their own country, they should give Quetta and Pashtun lands to Afghanistan and make Qalat or Zahedan their capital.

5. Religious seperatism by Islamist fanatics in Pakistan occur in Pashtunistan 99% of the time, but this is religious seperatism, they aspire to divide from Pakistan and make a caliphate, which coincidently matches the geographic boundaries of Pakistan...

There's so many Pashtunistan movements happenining againts Pakistan, but Pashtunistan is overshadowed by Islamic fundamentalism in Pakistan. Balochistan and Sindhudesh were visible causes because they weren't overshadowed by religion, they were clearly secular and ethnic causes, not religious. However in Iranian Balochistan, their seperatists are religious because of Shia-Sunni conflicts againts Iranian Persians, and their army is called Jundullah.

The American government was able to detain Iranian Balochi seperatists based on Religous fanaticism, but not Pakistan Baloch seperatists because Pakistani Baloch seperatists are secular because religious differences aren't aparent.

BTW, Afghanistan is landlocked, so if border changes don't happen, Pakistan and Afghanistan are close to partition anyways.... border changes are imminant, if countries are in a bad status ,the most likely future is partition into smaller countries, simple!

Because balochistan is a fake concept that never existed. Why do a lot of balochis look and share culture similarities to Pashtuns? Why do a lot of balochis have Pashtun tribe names?

Simple it's because they are practically pashtuns in disguise. Upper balochistan was, and never will be part of KPK because it was in a different province. Balochistan is called Godar in the Pashto language BTW.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

Every Pashtun living anywhere in the world is an ethnic Afghan but not a citizen Afghan. Only the citizens of Afghanistan both Pashtuns and non Pashtuns are Afghans in political sense. The real problem is the increasing distance between Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line. Here I would like to share an article written by me and posted some where else here.

No Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan but bridging the distance between Pashtuns on both sides of Durand line by non political means

I see Pashtuns talking about Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan (Greater Afghanistan) but I just see them talking no body is taking any action. These are all imaginative plans which have nothing to do with the reality so far. That’s why the only reality is the status quo, where we are. In the present circumstances nothing will change. Pakistan will never let its Pashtun parts to be ceded and Afghanistan is never asking for it or doing any thing for it. For Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan I don’t see any serious movement neither in Pakistan nor in Afghanistan.

Pashtun nationalist parties in Pakistan like ANP and PMAP are involved in pure Pakistani politics. They swear by the constitution of Pakistan and never talk of separation from Pakistan and joining Loy Afghanistan or creating Pashtunistan. I don’t see any mass movement in the streets of Pakistan for Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan. These are only internet slogans by very few Pashtuns but in the real life there is no struggle going on for these goals. I don’t know any party or group like Baloch liberation Army fighting in the real sense for any independent Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan. Pashtun nationalists talk only of Pashtun rights within Pakistan but never talk of dismembering Pakistan and creating a new entity. We don’t see any struggle on the pattern of Bengalis for Bangladesh. Rather many Pakistanis are quite happy in Pakistan and will never look to the worn torn Afghanistan as their abode.
The same situation can be witnessed in Afghanistan. We don’t have a single party or group struggling for Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan. Afghan government never asks for Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan from Pakistan and will never sacrifice its non Pashtun parts for any pure Pashtun state. All non Pashtuns are considered equal Afghans and Afghanistan will never leave its non Pashtuns Afghans for Pashtuns of Pakistan. The only reality emerges in this scenario is the status quo. But it does not mean Pashtuns cease to be the same race or ethnic group. They remain brethren in Pashtunwali and speakers of the same language.


Keeping in view the reality of no possibility of any political unity, the only path remains is non political. I am extremely worried about the increasing distance between the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan. If some serious efforts are not taken Pashtuns on both sides of the border, Pashtuns will deem themselves as different races or ethnicities. Yes races or ethnicities because already they belong to two different nations, Pakistani and Afghanistani or afghan.

Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line belong to one family, one blood, one language and one culture, one past but now being part of two different countries, distance is increasing between them. Pashtuns in Pakistan are coming under influence of Punjabis and Urdu speakers and Pashtuns in Afghanistan are coming under influence of Tajiks and Persian speakers.

We have to work and suggest that how Pashtuns on both sides can be culturally and linguistically united? Their cultural and linguistic unity is the only possibility as their political unity is now an unattainable dream. We have to devise pragmatic strategies that how distance between Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line can be reduced and they may come together at least culturally psychologically and linguistically if not politically. Pashtuns must be realistic in their approach. Some Pashtuns on both sides want merger of Pashtuns areas which is impossible as how Afghanistan will leave its non -Pashtun areas to be merged with Pashtun areas for a greater Pashtunistan. This is impossible, and how Pakistan will let its Pashtun areas to be separated, that would be too impossible for Pakistan.

As the distance between the Pashtuns living in Afghanistan and Pakistan is increasing we must learn from nations who speak the same language and have the same culture but are politically different and belong to different nations or countries and are citizens of different states. For example all Arab, Spanish, German, French ,English speaking people are not the citizens of the same countries but psychologically ,linguistically , culturally , economically they have enormous ties and try to develop linkages which further strengthen their bonds

We Pashtuns on both sides of the border if cant become one nation politically at least can feel one ethnic group and sons of the same father living in different houses . We must encourage connections with each other by marriages, conferences and friendships. We must feel near to an Afghan Pashtun than to a Pakistani Panjabi and vice versa

The concern is also about the increasing distance of Pashto language spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. There is a marked difference in vocabulary of the Pashto spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Afghanistani Pashto is influenced by Persian while Pakistani Pashto by Urdu or English. Here the solution is using pure Pashto words neither of Persian nor Urdu nor English. This will bridge the linguistic difference

However, the difference of accent is geographical not political. It does not depend on Pakistan or Afghanistan. It’s not East West. Its North –South. There arer two main dialects in Pashto language. Hard dialect spoken in areas like Peshawar, Mardan, Swat, Malakand, Dir, Kohat, Paracinar, Jalalabad, Bajawar, Mohmand, Khyber,etc mainly in northern part of Pashto speaking areas. Soft dialect is spoken in Southern areas like Banu, Karak, Waziristan, Baluchistan, Qandahar, Paktya etc

I have rarely seen an Afghan Pashtun who intensely hate a Pakistani Pashtun or a Pakistani Pashtun who abhor an Afghan Pashtun but the gap between Pashtuns living in these two countries is really increasing day by day and which can be seen in various internet based forums and other social events of mixed communities specially in foreign countries. Even in Pakistan a Pashtun from Afghanistan is some times called Kabaley or kabuli with a tone of humiliation and Afghan Pashtuns consider the Pakistani Pashtuns to be lesser Pashtuns.

Pashtuns are responsible as well as only solvers for all their problems including the increasing gap between the Pashtuns on both sides of the border. I wish the bridge of the distance between Pashtuns on two sides of the Durand line should be minimized not further intensified. We should become realist and instead of talking or struggling for imaginative ideals like Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan may struggle for the cultural, linguistic, psychological and economic unity of Pashtuns living any where in the world including Afghanistan or Pakistan.
This should be however clear that Afghanistan remains the motherland of Pashtuns and Pashtuns and Pashto have the only real status there in Afghanistan. The only hope for the development of Pashto as a language is Afghanistan. In Pakistan Pashtuns should struggle for greater provincial autonomy and should create a bigger Pashtun province including Khyber Pashtunkhwah, FATA, and the Pashtun parts of Baluchistan. Pakistani Pashtuns should struggle for Pashtun rights within Pakistan and making Pashto the official language of the Pashtun areas.

You are right here.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Because balochistan is a fake concept that never existed. Why do a lot of balochis look and share culture similarities to Pashtuns? Why do a lot of balochis have Pashtun tribe names?

Simple it's because they are practically pashtuns in disguise. Upper balochistan was, and never will be part of KPK because it was in a different province. Balochistan is called Godar in the Pashto language BTW.

why do Balouch speak a language which is not mutually intelligible with Pashto?

why does the ethnology of their origins relate to the Kurds?

[TolloAfghanSpinDai]

[/B][/FONT][/COLOR]
Even in Pakistan a Pashtun from Afghanistan is some times called Kabaley or kabuli with a tone of humiliation and Afghan Pashtuns consider the Pakistani Pashtuns to be lesser Pashtuns.

[/B][/FONT][/COLOR]

That is so gay.

1. Kabul is 75% Tajik, Pashtons are ignorant, most Afghan Pashtun refugees are.... from the south and are usually Ghilzais.... or something like that.... # 1 proof Pashtuns are uneducated, even about their own ethnic group.... and educating people about Race, nations and tribal associations is loathed by modern people who care educating people about math, sciences and modern business.

Wait, why hasn't someone did a census of the tribal alliance of Pashtun refugees who crossed the Durrand line to live under Punjabi muslim rule....

In Urdu, Afghan refugees are called Afghani Mohajir, but to distinguish between Afghan meaning just Pashtun....

[Kushan Prince]

why do Balouch speak a language which is not mutually intelligible with Pashto?

why does the ethnology of their origins relate to the Kurds?

I don't know about the kurdish thing and it is actually the first time i am hearing this. The baloch language actually contains a lot of pashto loan words and a lot of balcoh tribes are balochized names of pashtun tribes.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Every Pashtun living anywhere in the world is an ethnic Afghan but not a citizen Afghan. Only the citizens of Afghanistan both Pashtuns and non Pashtuns are Afghans in political sense. The real problem is the increasing distance between Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line. Here I would like to share an article written by me and posted some where else here.

No Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan but bridging the distance between Pashtuns on both sides of Durand line by non political means

I see Pashtuns talking about Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan (Greater Afghanistan) but I just see them talking no body is taking any action. These are all imaginative plans which have nothing to do with the reality so far. That’s why the only reality is the status quo, where we are. In the present circumstances nothing will change. Pakistan will never let its Pashtun parts to be ceded and Afghanistan is never asking for it or doing any thing for it. For Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan I don’t see any serious movement neither in Pakistan nor in Afghanistan.

Pashtun nationalist parties in Pakistan like ANP and PMAP are involved in pure Pakistani politics. They swear by the constitution of Pakistan and never talk of separation from Pakistan and joining Loy Afghanistan or creating Pashtunistan. I don’t see any mass movement in the streets of Pakistan for Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan. These are only internet slogans by very few Pashtuns but in the real life there is no struggle going on for these goals. I don’t know any party or group like Baloch liberation Army fighting in the real sense for any independent Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan. Pashtun nationalists talk only of Pashtun rights within Pakistan but never talk of dismembering Pakistan and creating a new entity. We don’t see any struggle on the pattern of Bengalis for Bangladesh. Rather many Pakistanis are quite happy in Pakistan and will never look to the worn torn Afghanistan as their abode.
The same situation can be witnessed in Afghanistan. We don’t have a single party or group struggling for Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan. Afghan government never asks for Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan from Pakistan and will never sacrifice its non Pashtun parts for any pure Pashtun state. All non Pashtuns are considered equal Afghans and Afghanistan will never leave its non Pashtuns Afghans for Pashtuns of Pakistan. The only reality emerges in this scenario is the status quo. But it does not mean Pashtuns cease to be the same race or ethnic group. They remain brethren in Pashtunwali and speakers of the same language.


Keeping in view the reality of no possibility of any political unity, the only path remains is non political. I am extremely worried about the increasing distance between the Pashtuns of Afghanistan and Pakistan. If some serious efforts are not taken Pashtuns on both sides of the border, Pashtuns will deem themselves as different races or ethnicities. Yes races or ethnicities because already they belong to two different nations, Pakistani and Afghanistani or afghan.

Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line belong to one family, one blood, one language and one culture, one past but now being part of two different countries, distance is increasing between them. Pashtuns in Pakistan are coming under influence of Punjabis and Urdu speakers and Pashtuns in Afghanistan are coming under influence of Tajiks and Persian speakers.

We have to work and suggest that how Pashtuns on both sides can be culturally and linguistically united? Their cultural and linguistic unity is the only possibility as their political unity is now an unattainable dream. We have to devise pragmatic strategies that how distance between Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand line can be reduced and they may come together at least culturally psychologically and linguistically if not politically. Pashtuns must be realistic in their approach. Some Pashtuns on both sides want merger of Pashtuns areas which is impossible as how Afghanistan will leave its non -Pashtun areas to be merged with Pashtun areas for a greater Pashtunistan. This is impossible, and how Pakistan will let its Pashtun areas to be separated, that would be too impossible for Pakistan.

As the distance between the Pashtuns living in Afghanistan and Pakistan is increasing we must learn from nations who speak the same language and have the same culture but are politically different and belong to different nations or countries and are citizens of different states. For example all Arab, Spanish, German, French ,English speaking people are not the citizens of the same countries but psychologically ,linguistically , culturally , economically they have enormous ties and try to develop linkages which further strengthen their bonds

We Pashtuns on both sides of the border if cant become one nation politically at least can feel one ethnic group and sons of the same father living in different houses . We must encourage connections with each other by marriages, conferences and friendships. We must feel near to an Afghan Pashtun than to a Pakistani Panjabi and vice versa

The concern is also about the increasing distance of Pashto language spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. There is a marked difference in vocabulary of the Pashto spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Afghanistani Pashto is influenced by Persian while Pakistani Pashto by Urdu or English. Here the solution is using pure Pashto words neither of Persian nor Urdu nor English. This will bridge the linguistic difference

However, the difference of accent is geographical not political. It does not depend on Pakistan or Afghanistan. It’s not East West. Its North –South. There arer two main dialects in Pashto language. Hard dialect spoken in areas like Peshawar, Mardan, Swat, Malakand, Dir, Kohat, Paracinar, Jalalabad, Bajawar, Mohmand, Khyber,etc mainly in northern part of Pashto speaking areas. Soft dialect is spoken in Southern areas like Banu, Karak, Waziristan, Baluchistan, Qandahar, Paktya etc

I have rarely seen an Afghan Pashtun who intensely hate a Pakistani Pashtun or a Pakistani Pashtun who abhor an Afghan Pashtun but the gap between Pashtuns living in these two countries is really increasing day by day and which can be seen in various internet based forums and other social events of mixed communities specially in foreign countries. Even in Pakistan a Pashtun from Afghanistan is some times called Kabaley or kabuli with a tone of humiliation and Afghan Pashtuns consider the Pakistani Pashtuns to be lesser Pashtuns.

Pashtuns are responsible as well as only solvers for all their problems including the increasing gap between the Pashtuns on both sides of the border. I wish the bridge of the distance between Pashtuns on two sides of the Durand line should be minimized not further intensified. We should become realist and instead of talking or struggling for imaginative ideals like Loy Afghanistan or Pashtunistan may struggle for the cultural, linguistic, psychological and economic unity of Pashtuns living any where in the world including Afghanistan or Pakistan.
This should be however clear that Afghanistan remains the motherland of Pashtuns and Pashtuns and Pashto have the only real status there in Afghanistan. The only hope for the development of Pashto as a language is Afghanistan. In Pakistan Pashtuns should struggle for greater provincial autonomy and should create a bigger Pashtun province including Khyber Pashtunkhwah, FATA, and the Pashtun parts of Baluchistan. Pakistani Pashtuns should struggle for Pashtun rights within Pakistan and making Pashto the official language of the Pashtun areas.

Very well written

The movement on both side is negligible for pashtunistan
And in Pakistani pashtun might agree with forming pashtunistan but again to be administrated under Pakistan.which the afghan pashtuns wont agree.
While if Afghan pashtuns agree to go for Pashtunistan than Pakistani pashtuns wont agree because the Pashtunistan again will be a land locked country which means again depending on Pakistan

So the idea of pashtunistan is either bounded or not possible and more of an past tense

In Pakistan The populations of Pashtuns as per latest survey is about 30-35millions and than include the 3-5millions afghan refugees.

Considering that pashtuns around the world are 50millions.this means of the world pashtuns,80% of them live in Pakistan

One biggest Problem For pashtunistan would be Pakistan army which itself had 2.39lac pashtuns of total 6lac strength

Could be as high as 40%+ by now.

Yet another part is could be true or wrong i dont know.
I heard that Afghan pashtuns are moving toward balochistan in mass numbers because of the gwadar port being handed over to China and possibilities of great investments and life opportunities being created in Balochistan

Since i had lived in Bannu and Dera ismail khan for a long time..many,may be 3 out of 10 afghan refugees in Pakistan are having Pakistani citizenship now.

Which also means further decreasing the numbers of Pashtuns in Afghanistan.as a possibilities of there returning Afghanistan are nill.

Since i basically belong to north waziristan,i know even the uneducated pashtuns of waziristan or the rest of agency are not complaining against pakistan in the sense to be seperated.

Pashtuns seperatist movement in Pakistan is negligible

While i dont know about the possibilities from Afghan side of pashtuns
But the only way Pakistani pashtuns would agree for pashtunistan is to merge it with kpk Under Pakistan which the Afghan pashtuns might not agree

Pashtuns from both the side might share alot of similarities now.but may become very less within the next few decades and may eventually fade up completely.

Pashtuns being 15% of Pakistan population had ruled Pakistan for close to 20years be it under GHulam ishaq khan or Ayub Khan.

THe only possibility left from my side to pashtunistan is to merge it with kpk under Pakistan
which i know afghan pashtuns might never agree

[Khostai]

^ Yes you are right Afghan Pashunts would never agree to join Pakistan, becuase we are not crazy, we had war on our soil for 30+ years becuase we wanted to be independant, and now no one would just join Pakistan and be under there command, no thank you, if Pakistany Pashtuns don't want't to join Afghanistan its fine by me, most of the young Afghans don't even care actauly.
And by the way Pashtuns are not the only peopel who are seperated in to difrent countries, there are many other ethnicities who share the same fate, but they do just fine.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

The reason i said so the Afghan pashtuns might not or never agree to merge with Kpk in if they are to remain under Pakistan

Fine for us as well since Afghan pashtuns even if there is no war will continue to settle in Pakistan.nearly 1/3rd of pashtuns refugees from Afghanistan now has pakistani nationality and so does more and more are coming in future.

Pakistan will eventually have more than 90% of world pashtuns in Pakistan while the case in afghanistan would be less than 20% of the afghan population would be pashtuns.
or afghan no more a identity of pashtuns but rather dari people

What i meant is that Pakistan in future will be referred to as the land of pashtuns and not afghanistan circa onwards 2025-30

[Khostai]

The reason i said so the Afghan pashtuns might not or never agree to merge with Kpk in if they are to remain under Pakistan

Fine for us as well since Afghan pashtuns even if there is no war will continue to settle in Pakistan.nearly 1/3rd of pashtuns refugees from Afghanistan now has pakistani nationality and so does more and more are coming in future.

Pakistan will eventually have more than 90% of world pashtuns in Pakistan while the case in afghanistan would be less than 20% of the afghan population would be pashtuns.
or afghan no more a identity of pashtuns but rather dari people

What i meant is that Pakistan in future will be referred to as the land of pashtuns and not afghanistan circa onwards 2025-30

That can never happen, where do you get this numbers from???
I know that there are more Pashtuns in Pakistan than in Afghanistan, but Pashtun in Afghanistan can never become 20%, we can only increase, and only if the war continues for another 30 years and every nation gona bomb the Pashtun region, than I can say yes, Pashtuns in Afghanistan can become even lesser than 20%, but the future scenario that you portray is totaly fantasy LOL.
And by the way the only reason that there are so many Afghan Pashtun refugee in Pakistan is becuase the border between Pakistan is almost non-excistent, and espicialy back in the 80s and 90s, there was almost not control there.....
If there is no war, no Pashtun gona just emigrate to Pakistan, even now a lot of Pashtuns are coming back.
So lets not pretend that Pakistan is such a great place that all of Afghans want to go there, peopel go there becuase they don't have a better alternative....

And only 1/3 of Afghan refugee have a Pakistany nationality compare that to other countrys, that precentage is far more biger.

[TolloAfghanSpinDai]

Okay, 8 people say They're Afghans and 8 people say they're not Afghans....

of the 8 who said yes, 4 said they're only Afghan while the other 4 generally said they're just Afghan.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

That can never happen, where do you get this numbers from???
I know that there are more Pashtuns in Pakistan than in Afghanistan, but Pashtun in Afghanistan can never become 20%, we can only increase, and only if the war continues for another 30 years and every nation gona bomb the Pashtun region, than I can say yes, Pashtuns in Afghanistan can become even lesser than 20%, but the future scenario that you portray is totaly fantasy LOL.
And by the way the only reason that there are so many Afghan Pashtun refugee in Pakistan is becuase the border between Pakistan is almost non-excistent, and espicialy back in the 80s and 90s, there was almost not control there.....
If there is no war, no Pashtun gona just emigrate to Pakistan, even now a lot of Pashtuns are coming back.
So lets not pretend that Pakistan is such a great place that all of Afghans want to go there, peopel go there becuase they don't have a better alternative....

And only 1/3 of Afghan refugee have a Pakistany nationality compare that to other countrys, that precentage is far more biger.

my numbers are based on wiki..

pashtun in afghanistan might not become 20% for the next 2-3 decade but you are not aware of the future since pashtuns alreadh has depleted from 67% of total population in 1980's to 42% now.

And once the tajiks and uzbeks get complete hold in Afghanistan..even though correct me if i am wrong.the Afghan national army is made up majority of them.like they have changed the the national language of afghanistan into dari/persian(atleast in the media or the afghan official they use dari instead of pashto anymore including the karzai)

i know afghan refugees might start returning back to afghanistan onwards 2014...but again For the pashtuns to get upto 60-70% of afghan population would be a hell alot of difficult mark.

i just hope that A true democracy is established in afghanistan..talibans are being defeated.peace preveal in both pakistan and afghanistan.

And we have bette relations with each other