Are Pakistani Pashtuns considered Afghan?

[Kushan Prince]

I never said it is despicable I am saying Pakistani Pashtuns have a different culture than ours now because of the Urdu/South Asian domination

Not really. They still practice attan and still have other afghan celebrations.The only difference i see about them is that their pashto has more urdu vocabulary compared to ours which has more Persian vocabulary.

[Badlun]

Not really. They still practice attan and still have other afghan celebrations.The only difference i see about them is that their pashto has more urdu vocabulary compared to ours which has more Persian vocabulary.

Not only attan but they share everything as same language, same history, same dress, same tribes, same values, same traditions, same culture, same problems, same issues. The only thing difference is their political status.

On language as I said above that the concern is also about the increasing distance of Pashto language spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. There is a marked difference in vocabulary of the Pashto spoken in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Afghanistani Pashto is influenced by Persian while Pakistani Pashto by Urdu or English. Here the solution is using pure Pashto words neither of Persian nor Urdu nor English. This will bridge the linguistic difference.

However, the difference of accent is geographical not political. It does not depend on Pakistan or Afghanistan. It’s not East West. Its North –South. There arer two main dialects in Pashto language. Hard dialect spoken in areas like Peshawar, Mardan, Swat, Malakand, Dir, Kohat, Paracinar, Jalalabad, Bajawar, Mohmand, Khyber,etc mainly in northern part of Pashto speaking areas. Soft dialect is spoken in Southern areas like Banu, Karak, Waziristan, Baluchistan, Qandahar, Paktya etc

[Toramana]

Very well written

The movement on both side is negligible for pashtunistan
And in Pakistani pashtun might agree with forming pashtunistan but again to be administrated under Pakistan.which the afghan pashtuns wont agree.
While if Afghan pashtuns agree to go for Pashtunistan than Pakistani pashtuns wont agree because the Pashtunistan again will be a land locked country which means again depending on Pakistan

So the idea of pashtunistan is either bounded or not possible and more of an past tense

In Pakistan The populations of Pashtuns as per latest survey is about 30-35millions and than include the 3-5millions afghan refugees.

Considering that pashtuns around the world are 50millions.this means of the world pashtuns,80% of them live in Pakistan

One biggest Problem For pashtunistan would be Pakistan army which itself had 2.39lac pashtuns of total 6lac strength

Could be as high as 40%+ by now.

Yet another part is could be true or wrong i dont know.
I heard that Afghan pashtuns are moving toward balochistan in mass numbers because of the gwadar port being handed over to China and possibilities of great investments and life opportunities being created in Balochistan

Since i had lived in Bannu and Dera ismail khan for a long time..many,may be 3 out of 10 afghan refugees in Pakistan are having Pakistani citizenship now.

Which also means further decreasing the numbers of Pashtuns in Afghanistan.as a possibilities of there returning Afghanistan are nill.

Since i basically belong to north waziristan,i know even the uneducated pashtuns of waziristan or the rest of agency are not complaining against pakistan in the sense to be seperated.

Pashtuns seperatist movement in Pakistan is negligible

While i dont know about the possibilities from Afghan side of pashtuns
But the only way Pakistani pashtuns would agree for pashtunistan is to merge it with kpk Under Pakistan which the Afghan pashtuns might not agree

Pashtuns from both the side might share alot of similarities now.but may become very less within the next few decades and may eventually fade up completely.

Pashtuns being 15% of Pakistan population had ruled Pakistan for close to 20years be it under GHulam ishaq khan or Ayub Khan.

THe only possibility left from my side to pashtunistan is to merge it with kpk under Pakistan
which i know afghan pashtuns might never agree

Absolutely wrong and non-sensical article. Pashtuns in Pakistan are not more than 7-10% in Paki army, even less than that in officer rank. However, if you include rag-tag poorly paid and trained khassadars and FC, the ratio may swell to one hundred thousands.

Second, if Pashtuns separate from Pakistan there wouldn't be Pakistan either. We don't know who would control Karachi port then---May be both Urdu-speaking Mahajars and Pashtuns under a regional or UN security umbrella.

The only two Pashtuns in Pakistan army that were army chief have been General Gul Hassan Khan and General Kakar. Even General Kakar was half-half (spoke Hindko but had Pashtun tribal heritage at least to the limits of claims).

General Ayub Khan was a Potohari and spoke the Hazara Hindko more close to the Potohari spoken in the adjoining region. No one has verified his claims of being a Tarin. May be that is fake claim in the first place

Ghulam Ishaq was president for only 4 years from 1988 to 1990.


Many countries in Central Asia and South Asia are landlocked and are doing better than Pakistan. Stop presenting Pakistan as the sole option for Pashtuns.

[Toramana]

I mostly agree with what Khostai has said---But I disagree over one thing---Pashtuns would become a Punjabized and Urduized versions of Pashtuns although they would still be a distinct group with some remote feelings of being Pashtuns. But one cannot predict the future as well.

[Toramana]

Hahahaha ---the mother tongue of RTR is Arabic---So still every Pashtun from Pakistan including me is more Pashtun and better immersed in Pashtunwali and so linked with a Pashtun from Afghanistan than RTR is (kidding).

[Toramana]

But I have one thing to say though--When sanity prevails in the region and people start caring for economic prosperity and political conditions are created for that in the region there would be very fast re-merger. After all, we are not living in states like East=West Germany or North-South Koreas. We are living in open states.

[Shayesta]

@Da Bannu Madzigar
You, my friend, are a prime example of why the difference between Lar and Bar is increasing. If even 10% of Pukhtoons in Pakistan think the same way about Afghanistan as you do, then no wonder we are not getting along. Because your knowledge of your forefathers' native is so horrific, I couldn't stop myself from making a comment, after a long time, and educating you a little:

Up until Zahir Shah's era, Dari was our only official language. Even though back then Pukhtoons made up bigger numbers in the country, many Pukhtoons used Dari as their first language, and as a vast majority, we lost to second majority. But now, today, we form a little less than about half the population, but regardless of that; Our language is the first language, one of the official languages, language of our national anthem, language of the millitary and economic rankings, and you name it. Not only that, there is more. Today, compared to some decades ago, for the first time every single Afghan, regardless of ethnic, must be fluent in both official languages if they want a political or government job. In a country, where once upon a time some Pukhtoon rulers couldn't even speak a word of Pukhto, is now a country where you will hardly find a politician, or even a media person, who is not able to speak Pukhto. Heck, Pukhto songs are being promoted more than ever before by even Tajiks.

Not just that, my friend. Pukhtoons who have lived in North of the country for decades, for the first time demanded schools in Pukhto and even Pukhto libraries. In the heart-land of 'the great' Persian culture and history, Herat and Balkh, Pukhtoons have started demanding programmes to keep their culture and language alive. And despite of Balkh and Herat provinces having non-Pukhtoon rulers and overwhelming non-Pukhtoon population, of whom even non-Tajiks nearly all have Persianized, our demands have actually been taken note of. So I guess the Uzbek and Tajik rulers aren't as evil and hateful as you have been taught in Pakistan, are they? And this is despite after what the Taliban did to them, mind you. Pukhtoon lives are gradually, but surely, going back to normal.

But, the biggest point what you and your fellow countrymen ignore when it comes to status of Pukhto and Pukhtoons, is this; Despite of Pakhtunkhwa being an independent Pukhtoon province of Pakistan, the province in every single way is massively influenced by cultures which they are part of for less than a century. Be that be the culture of the Punjabis, or anyone else. While in North of Afghanistan, which has a Persian culture and history running for thousands of years, where once the only common language used to be Persian, where for thousands of years Persian lifestyle was accepted by all, today, those people have Pukhtoons and their culture living among them, Pukhto language spoken around them, Pukhtoon dominance over them for so many years, et cetera. And despite of Persian being such a rich and influenced language in many regions and by massive number of speakers even outside Afghanistan, Pukhto made its way of being nationally, politically and economically being nearly as important as Persian. Not quiet par with it, but definitely close to it.

To you and other ignorants these things may mean nothing, but if you read the history of Tajik areas of Afghanistan, you will see that something which many inhabitants of those areas haven't achieved, is achieved by us. Arabs Persianized, Mongols Persianized, Turks Persianized, Uzbeks Persianized, and so on. But non of them could achieve a status for their culture and language, but we did. Despite of Southern Pukhtoon areas being highly affected by war, we still managed to make our presence be felt, our language be heard, and our culture be shown which has highly affected the Tajiks. Go and find a Tajik who speaks Hazaragi dialect, or who speaks Uzbeki, or Arabic. These people have been present there for centuries, and even longer than us, but we made them speak Pukhto within decades after our language being made official. Being in a position of war we achieved all this, imagine what we could have done had we been more active in promoting education and our language. Now good luck with achieving all this in Pekhawar only, forget about entire of Pakhtunkhwa.

And Afghan Pukhtoons in Pakistan won't increase since the control on border has increased and Afghans by far can't get a Pakistani visa as easily any more. Forget about increasing Pakistani passports. At the most they will decrease in numbers. And if Taliban is falling in Afghanistan then it is not because of Tajik or Uzbek dominance; It's because even many Pukhtoons are, finally, willing to fight the Taliban along with rest of Afghanistan. Every bad thing has an end, and so has our neighbor's puppet the Taliban.

[Kushan Prince]

^what are you talking about? Pashtuns make up a good majority in both Herat and Balkh.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

@Da Bannu Madzigar
You, my friend, are a prime example of why the difference between Lar and Bar is increasing. If even 10% of Pukhtoons in Pakistan think the same way about Afghanistan as you do, then no wonder we are not getting along. Because your knowledge of your forefathers' native is so horrific, I couldn't stop myself from making a comment, after a long time, and educating you a little:

Up until Zahir Shah's era, Dari was our only official language. Even though back then Pukhtoons made up bigger numbers, many Pukhtoons used Dari as their first language. But now, today, we form about half the population and despite that, our language is the first language, one of official languages, language of our national anthem, language of the military and economic rankings, and you name it. Not only at, today, compared to some decades ago for the first time every single Afghan, regardless of ethnic, must be fluent in both official languages if they want a political or government job. In a country where once Pukhtoons rulers couldn't speak Pukhto is now a country where you will hardly find a politician, or even a media person, who is not able to speak Pukhto.

Not just that, my friend. Pukhtoons who have lived in North of the country for decades for the first time demanded schools in Pukhto and even Pukhto libraries. In the heart-land of the great Persian history, Herat and Balkh, Pukhtoons have started demanding programmes to keep their culture and language alive. And despite of Balkh and Herat provinces having non-Pukhtoon rulers and overwhelming non-Pukhtoon population, our demands have actually been taken note of. So I guess the Uzbek and Tajik rulers aren't as evil and hateful as you have been taught in Pakistan, are they? And this is despite after what the Taliban did to them, mind you.

But, the biggest point what you and your fellow countrymen ignore when it comes to status of Pukhto's and Pukhtoons' is this; Despite of Pakhtunkhwa being an independent Pukhtoon province of Pakistan, the province in every single way is massively influenced by cultures which they are part of for less than a decade. Be that be the culture of the Punjabis, or anyone else. While in North of Afghanistan, which has a Persian culture running for thousands of years, where once only common language used to be Persian, where for thousands of years Persian rules applied. Today those people have Pukhto culture living among them, Pukhto language spoken around them, Pukhtoon dominance over them for so many years, and despite of Persian being such a rich and influenced language in many regions, Pukhto made its way of being nationally, politically and economically being nearly equally important as Persian.

To you and other ignorants these things may mean nothing, but if you read the history of Tajik areas of Afghanistan, you will see that something that many inhabitants of those areas haven't achieved, is achieved by us. Arabs Persianized, Mongols Persianized, Turks Persianized, Uzbeks Persianized, and so on. But non of them could achieve a status for their culture and language, but we did. Despite of Southern Pukhtoon areas being highly affected by war, we still managed to make our presence be felt, our language be heard, and our culture be shown which has highly affected the Tajiks. Go and find a Tajik who speaks Hazaragi dialect, or who speaks Uzbeki, or Arabic. These people have been present there for centuries, but we made them speak Pukhto within decades. Being in a position of war we achieved all this, imagine what we could have done had we been more active in promoting education and our language. Now good luck with achieving all this in Pekhawar only, forget about entire of Pakhtunkhwa.

And Afghan Pukhtoons in Pakistan won't increase because the control on border has increased and Afghans by far can't get a Pakistani visa as easily any more. Forget about increasing Pakistani passports. At the most they will decrease in numbers. And if Taliban is falling in Afghanistan then it is not because of Tajik or Uzbek dominance; It's because even many Pukhtoons are, finally, willing to fight the Taliban along with rest of Afghanistan. Every bad thing has an end, and so has our neighbor's puppet the Taliban.

I think you just committed the same error as he did. Some of the purest Pashto and some of the untouched tribes are in FATA. How much do you think Wazirwola and those dialects have seen the introduction of stupid loan words from Persian or Urdo?

You really think its OK for half of our relatives to say Bishqaab etc etc and Chappa Laas instead of the proper terminologies like Lokhaay and Kin laas. As the road crosses into Quetta you can hear the difference where politicians like Achakzai use the proper Pashto terminology and the ones from Qandahar say Chappa etc with persianized loan words.

Regarding the statement you made about Uzbek and Tajiks leaders not being all that bad, I beg to differ and borrowing form my own prior post:

There was a survey released thats now 3 years old by the International Council on Security and Development. It stated two very important points. The report used to be posted on their website but is now a pay for piece, so I do not recall the sample size of the data but they surveyed across the provinces.

Some important points they conveyed (and mind you the general goal of this organization appears to be a Think Tank designed to provide info for the UN to further their progress)"

"The poll also showed majority support in Southern Afghanistan for secession and the creation of an independent Pashtunistan (potentially including some of Pakistan’s tribal regions), and that 40 percent of the population believed NATO was occupying Afghanistan as part of a goal to destroy Islam."

"In the north of the country, interviews took place in Parwan and Panjshir provinces, and findings indicate some successes: 80% of Tajik interviewees believe that the central government is protecting their interests. “This figure indicates that there is political buy-in for the central government despite the issues with the Pashtun population,” said MacDonald."

I would say that the evidence from the northern survey is stark and provides the proverbial evidence from the horse's mouth itself when also supplemented by the attrition rates and views the Pashtuns have of the ANA cited by the NY Times.

http://www.icosgroup.net/2010/report...e-perceptions/

Antiwar.com summarized the key points of the data well:

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/s...-nato-invaded/

Regarding "what the Taliban did to them" I suggest in the strongest terms you clarify that statement since it appears to mean, in a lopsided way, that there were some innocent cuddly bear Tajik and Uzbeks and Hazaras sitting around until the burley dirty pashtuns sauntered in uninvited and started doing what they did as opposed to the tit for tat reality that existed.

Peshawar is not all too much different than Kabul in terms of the culture mixing and thats a fact, not a dream.

What about this reason set of clashes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/wo...lege.html?_r=0

Quotes from two Afghans in Kabul on the ground:

"Mr. Rahman, the student leader, who is a Pashtun literature major, had a starkly different take. “Mr. Rabbani was the one who was firing rockets at this university during the civil war. How can they name it after him?” The university was then called the Institute of Pedagogy, and was a base for ethnic Hazara fighters.
Another student protester, Zmarai Kochi, said there were strong practical objections to the name change. “Can you imagine if you had an identity card with this name on it and you were caught in Wardak Province?” he said, referring to a heavily Pashtun area. “You would be killed for it.”"

Let me guess... they are ISI agents?

Here is an article from Reuters:
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1104868.html

"Rashad said that while most ordinary Pashtuns are capable of basic communication in Dari, a fluent knowledge of spoken and written Dari is the norm for educated Pashtuns. "Many Tajiks, however, do not try to learn Pashto," Rashad said.
Sahebnazar Muradi, the chief editor of the "Aina" (Mirror) newspaper in Kabul, acknowledges that Pashtuns are indeed the biggest minority in Afghanistan, but that Dari is still the language of the majority because Dari is used by all the country's ethnic groups to communicate with one another. Muradi said Pashtuns learn Dari voluntarily because some 70 percent of the country's scientific and historic literature has been written in Dari over the past centuries."

And I would say that Pashtuns in Pakistan are as mistreated by their local ethnic groups, evidenced by the killings of Pashtuns in Karachi. But to let the Tajiks and Uzbeks and Hazaras off the hook while putting culpability onto the back of a large swathe of Pashtuns across the border and not noting their conditions (i.e. the fact that the very same Pakistani Army occupies parts of FATA with checkpoints) is really like the similitude of the kettle and the pot.

Neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan offers the Pashtuns some sort of budding paradise or shang ri la where they can live in cuddly comfort next to these other folks who have had competitive prospects for centuries, not just since the Soviet invasion or since the creation of Pakistan.

[Toramana]

I think you just committed the same error as he did. Some of the purest Pashto and some of the untouched tribes are in FATA. How much do you think Wazirwola and those dialects have seen the introduction of stupid loan words from Persian or Urdo?

You really think its OK for half of our relatives to say Bishqaab etc etc and Chappa Laas instead of the proper terminologies like Lokhaay and Kin laas. As the road crosses into Quetta you can hear the difference where politicians like Achakzai use the proper Pashto terminology and the ones from Qandahar say Chappa etc with persianized loan words.

Regarding the statement you made about Uzbek and Tajiks leaders not being all that bad, I beg to differ and borrowing form my own prior post:

There was a survey released thats now 3 years old by the International Council on Security and Development. It stated two very important points. The report used to be posted on their website but is now a pay for piece, so I do not recall the sample size of the data but they surveyed across the provinces.

Some important points they conveyed (and mind you the general goal of this organization appears to be a Think Tank designed to provide info for the UN to further their progress)"

"The poll also showed majority support in Southern Afghanistan for secession and the creation of an independent Pashtunistan (potentially including some of Pakistan’s tribal regions), and that 40 percent of the population believed NATO was occupying Afghanistan as part of a goal to destroy Islam."

"In the north of the country, interviews took place in Parwan and Panjshir provinces, and findings indicate some successes: 80% of Tajik interviewees believe that the central government is protecting their interests. “This figure indicates that there is political buy-in for the central government despite the issues with the Pashtun population,” said MacDonald."

I would say that the evidence from the northern survey is stark and provides the proverbial evidence from the horse's mouth itself when also supplemented by the attrition rates and views the Pashtuns have of the ANA cited by the NY Times.

http://www.icosgroup.net/2010/report...e-perceptions/

Antiwar.com summarized the key points of the data well:

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/11/19/s...-nato-invaded/

Regarding "what the Taliban did to them" I suggest in the strongest terms you clarify that statement since it appears to mean, in a lopsided way, that there were some innocent cuddly bear Tajik and Uzbeks and Hazaras sitting around until the burley dirty pashtuns sauntered in uninvited and started doing what they did as opposed to the tit for tat reality that existed.

Peshawar is not all too much different than Kabul in terms of the culture mixing and thats a fact, not a dream.

What about this reason set of clashes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/09/wo...lege.html?_r=0

Quotes from two Afghans in Kabul on the ground:

"Mr. Rahman, the student leader, who is a Pashtun literature major, had a starkly different take. “Mr. Rabbani was the one who was firing rockets at this university during the civil war. How can they name it after him?” The university was then called the Institute of Pedagogy, and was a base for ethnic Hazara fighters.
Another student protester, Zmarai Kochi, said there were strong practical objections to the name change. “Can you imagine if you had an identity card with this name on it and you were caught in Wardak Province?” he said, referring to a heavily Pashtun area. “You would be killed for it.”"

Let me guess... they are ISI agents?

Here is an article from Reuters:
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1104868.html

"Rashad said that while most ordinary Pashtuns are capable of basic communication in Dari, a fluent knowledge of spoken and written Dari is the norm for educated Pashtuns. "Many Tajiks, however, do not try to learn Pashto," Rashad said.
Sahebnazar Muradi, the chief editor of the "Aina" (Mirror) newspaper in Kabul, acknowledges that Pashtuns are indeed the biggest minority in Afghanistan, but that Dari is still the language of the majority because Dari is used by all the country's ethnic groups to communicate with one another. Muradi said Pashtuns learn Dari voluntarily because some 70 percent of the country's scientific and historic literature has been written in Dari over the past centuries."

And I would say that Pashtuns in Pakistan are as mistreated by their local ethnic groups, evidenced by the killings of Pashtuns in Karachi. But to let the Tajiks and Uzbeks and Hazaras off the hook while putting culpability onto the back of a large swathe of Pashtuns across the border and not noting their conditions (i.e. the fact that the very same Pakistani Army occupies parts of FATA with checkpoints) is really like the similitude of the kettle and the pot.

Neither Afghanistan nor Pakistan offers the Pashtuns some sort of budding paradise or shang ri la where they can live in cuddly comfort next to these other folks who have had competitive prospects for centuries, not just since the Soviet invasion or since the creation of Pakistan.

Shiekh pa ghalatha pa khata dai, sar pai ma khugawa--lol

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Shiekh pa ghalatha pa khata dai, sar pai ma khugawa--lol

How am I in the wrong man? I am defending YOU. I am telling them its ridiculous to hold you and your kin responsible for your circumstances while painting their own situation as some sort of nonexistent amazing heaven for Pashtuns. What kind of logic is this that Peshawar, on the one hand, a Pashtun city, is more comprimised in its Pashto integrity than Kabul??? As if nearly 180 years after Timur Shah moved the capital to Kabul and the dynasties became Persianized that somehow efforts on behalf of Pashto and for Pashto are monopolized by a few years and a few new think tanks in occupied Afghanistan? I think its ahistorical; even under those oppressive circumstances and attempts to stamp out Pashtun identity the Pashto Academy has flourished in the KP region and has safegaurded many classical works of Pashto form leaders such as Ahmad Shah Baba and Khushaal Khan. While I may disagree with some of the ANP and PMAP policies, what kind of logic is this to ignore the large following those groups have in that province? Even if the leaders dont live up to their politics that doesnt mean that the people themselves dont have aspirations for their identity.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

And for that matter I dont even get the original question. As recently as the middle of the last century it was documented everywhere in the world that the Pashtun race was the Afghan race synonymously. Its not a choice in the matter. For example, an Arab in Arabia or in Iraq is still in Arab. So there is not opinion that can be inserted here because its like asking:

Should the whites in Britain be called caucasians or British... one is an ethnic title and the other is the nationality title.

Better example might be Turks. There is one country called Turkey, but ethnic Turks are in many regions and they actually resent the fact that there is a central place called Turkey since they are all "Turks." National identity card has nothing to do with it... DNA does and ethnic profile does.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Pakistani Pashtuns? it's like saying..Pakistani Afghans.

HA!

On a serious note, i do consider them Afghans.

[Shayesta]

@Barakzai Abdali
Wror jaana, either you got me in the wrong context, or you didn't read my reason for that response. Now one of the members was describing Afghanistan as wholly Persian nation and he described the country as if if non-Pukhtoons hold more power in Afghanistan, that our whole race, culture and even language will die. And another silly reason he gave is immigration of Afghan Pukhtoons to Pakistan, which is not even as regular any more. And I was describing to him purely the importance of our language in Afghanistan currently, not necessarily our ethnic differences with others. But having said that, I will come back at your post as well:

Some of the purest Pashto and some of the untouched tribes are in FATA. How much do you think Wazirwola and those dialects have seen the introduction of stupid loan words from Persian or Urdo?

One of the purest form of spoken Pukhto could also be found in villages of South Afghanistan, my most difficult conversation ever was with villagers of Khost who used words I never heard before in my life. But let me remind you that education in Pukhto and Pukhto literature is what keeps our language alive, not what some villagers speak. What if those villagers were to modernize and more educated? If there are no medium in Pukhto then wouldn't they lose the 'pure form of Pukhto' too?

Regarding the statement you made about Uzbek and Tajiks leaders not being all that bad, I beg to differ and borrowing form my own prior post

I made that comment in response to the person saying that if Tajik and Uzbek power rises then Pukhto will fade away, which is not true. After centuries for the first time non-Pukhtoons are pretty much par with Pukhtoons in politics, but that didn't stop Pukhto from flourishing. Despite Pukhtoons being in such a poor state. Just compare the quality if Shamshad, Lemar or Zhwandon with Khyber. You will get me.

The report used to be posted on their website but is now a pay for piece, so I do not recall the sample size of the data but they surveyed across the provinces.

Both the sources are not available so not sure what to make of that, but is there any other link you could provide stating the same things as those sources?

The poll also showed majority support in Southern Afghanistan for secession and the creation of an independent Pashtunistan (potentially including some of Pakistan’s tribal regions)

Support for Pukhtunistan and Loy Afghanistan has always been there in South; What happened? Is there any movement for it? Is there any politician who is participating for an independent Pukhtunistan?

In the north of the country, interviews took place in Parwan and Panjshir provinces, and findings indicate some successes: 80% of Tajik interviewees believe that the central government is protecting their interests.

Again, same thing. Parwan and Panjsher by far do not represent majority of Tajiks. Even if they do, I don't see anywhere written that their 'interest' is the the 'destruction' of or 'partition' with the Pukhtoons.

I would say that the evidence from the northern survey is stark and provides the proverbial evidence from the horse's mouth itself when also supplemented by the attrition rates and views the Pashtuns have of the ANA cited by the NY Times.

Again, none of those links work and until I don't see any other source confirming or stating the same, I can't make any comment on that.

Regarding "what the Taliban did to them" I suggest in the strongest terms you clarify that statement

Forcing Pukhto as sole language, forcing women to wear Chadari be out with men only, forcing people to grow beard, bringing our economy down the drain, targeting an ethnic group because of a politician's similar background and et cetera isn't any 'tit for tat' ideology. Especially considering why it were only the Pukhtoons who failed to get along with rest of Afghanistan during the Taliban era, and after that.

Peshawar is not all too much different than Kabul in terms of the culture mixing and thats a fact, not a dream.

Pekhawar is known as one of Pukhtoon culture's heartland, Kabul in history has been known as a Persian civilization. When Dari used to be our only medium in colleges and universities, that didn't Persianize Kandahar, did it? In fact, Kandahar despite of having around 30% non-Pukhtoons still speaks 100% Pukhto. If a Pukhtoon leaves Pukhto's heartland then we shouldn't complain about him losing his language, but a Pukhtoon destroying his own culture and language in his own cultural homeland, then there is every reason to complain. Is it not?

Mr. Rahman, the student leader, who is a Pashtun literature major, had a starkly different take. Mr. Rabbani was the one who was firing rockets at this university during the civil war. How can they name it after him?

There is a reason why I stopped reading New York Times articles, and the reason is how desperate they bring up ethnic lines of Afghanistan in every single damned article of theirs. And even there I don't see their reason of conflict being ethnic, but mere politics.

Can you imagine if you had an identity card with this name on it and you were caught in Wardak Province? he said, referring to a heavily Pashtun area. You would be killed for it.

Again, it is not the student who referred to Wardak as a Pukhtoon province, it was the writer of the article. Get me now why I find their articles so damn annoying? Instead of stating that Wardak is a Taliban control, who are enemies of the government, he made it an ethnic issue. And if you still believe it's Rabbani's ethnic which is the cause of trouble among Pukhtoons, then watch this:


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Sahebnazar Muradi, the chief editor of the Aina (Mirror) newspaper in Kabul, acknowledges that Pashtuns are indeed the biggest minority in Afghanistan, but that Dari is still the language of the majority because Dari is used by all the country's ethnic groups to communicate with one another. Muradi said Pashtuns learn Dari voluntarily because some 70 percent of the country's scientific and historic literature has been written in Dari over the past centuries.

This is what I mean by we need more scholars in Pukhto. Our past leaders have made great mistake of ignoring Pukhto and believe it or not, that very same Kabul speaks more Pukhto than ever before in our history. And that, wror jaana, is what I was talking about. Tajiks learn Pukhto in schools anyway, whether they want to speak it or not is another story. And Dari has been a lingua franca since many centuries and I don't expect that to change to Pukhto, but I only expect Pukhtoons to keep dedicated to their language and keep contribute to it. And this is what Kabul Pukhtoons are doing today, which I have seen with my own eyes.

And I would say that Pashtuns in Pakistan are as mistreated by their local ethnic groups, evidenced by the killings of Pashtuns in Karachi.

I, again, did not talk about our treatment from others. I was speaking of how our culture and language is only growing in Afghanistan, and not fading. What happens in Karachi is all politics for which the government of Pakistan is responsible, and what has happened in Kabul, and is still happening, is also the fault of the government who doesn't give a damn to unification of Afghans; May those politicians be Pukhtoons, or anyone else.

And as for our current state as a Pukhtoon nation, we and only we are responsible for that. We have problems in Pakistan, we have problems in Afghanistan, but we also started having problems with each other. It is not important to talk about Pukhtunistan or Loy Afghanistan, the most important action we need to take is educating our lot. Promoting our language and culture among our own people first, not like our previous leaders who were in favor of Loy Afghanistan/Pukhtunistan but lacked sense of importance of our language and culture..

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

look pashto from khost, paktia and paktika as well as waziristan, kurram and then south afghanistan, balochistan are the purest. the rest is eh