Does thinking for yourself automatically dub you as a conspiracist?

[khushal]

Khushal when I said you don't know what a strawman fallacy is, I didn't mean you can't use GOOGLE after I point something out to you and just mindlessly regurgitate its definition or something.

An Analysis by its very meaning cannot be a "straw-man" because I am not claiming you "made" the "claim" of what I wrote, I am saying what you do claim when EXAMINED is FAULTY and thus cannot be a legitimate reason, thus would make it an attempt at apologetics.
please stop trying to nurse your blunders, man up to them for once.

In that thread I never made any claims, I found errors in your source and how you applied it to fit your narrative, its there, just read it. Your claim that I am apologizing for something is a strawman because your simply lieing.

If you ever found a LEGITIMATE flaw in any sources I WOULD COMMEND YOU, In fact I would be the FIRST to commend you.

read what I said and how its faulty. If you understood things on the ground in afghanistan, you would know exactly how its faulty.

NOw STOP being intellectually dishonest, I'm setting the record straight once and for all. I was never mad because you found a flaw in any of my sources, because as far as I have seen, YOU have never done so. I get APPALLED and annoyed that you AVOID the EVIDENCE in my sources because they're INCONVENIENT for you to handle. You split hairs and go into irrelevant tangents
There Khushal ..did you read that? Now you can't make this bull**** fabricated narrative of how you try to misrepresent and distort events. I am TELLING you directly There's no way you can rework that to mean anything but what I just said; Any attempt at doing so is you being intellectually dishonest.

Your sources are either faulty like the 70% rape claim and I proved how they are faulty or you apply them wrong like with the case of pashtunwali promotes the hate for women.

What you just described has nothing to do with the Law of Equilibrium. so no I don't remember because you're just mindlessly and incorrectly using terminology inappropriately

Sure it does. If a person enters society A from society B and is raising a family there, that person will be consumed by society A culturally because the weight of society A is astronomical compared to the migrant. If the migrants from Society A that enter Society B is equal in number to Society B, then two societies cultures would intermix and form a new culture. Law of Eqilibrium at play. That is why when America allows immigrants from the East, they allow them slowly so their own culture or values are not influenced.

And secondly you're wrong the Britishy were in Afghanistan for 100 years, none of them, not even "Alexander Burnes" got "Pashtunized"; the only exception were baby girls Hadokai Ghundai. Which is quite a different scenario than being raised by Pashtun parents in a Pashtun household.

I already pointed out that it could take a generation or two and if the community is big in numbers it would take longer but still the inevitable would occur.

In fact if we applied the Law of Equilibrium THEN if your culture is strong then that equilbrium would fall in your favor regardless of where you are. So The Law of Equilibrium would work contrary to how you state perceive it.

Nope, the strength of your culture is determined by how intrinsic it is with its environment and by the population of its community. This is evident by the fact that throughout history when people migrated, they either adopted they culture of their host society or if they were big in numbers they influenced their host societies.

It's not a strawman, I never claimed this is how you see yourself

firstly You need to learn WHAT a strawman is; and I don't mean regurgitating the definition, I mean how to correctly use the concept.

What you did claim is that ONE extreme leads to another; well RIGHT the EXTREMES of Pashtuns lead to women wanting to escape and they do extreme things like running away and marrying farangayan. THAT is what I am saying USING YOUR argument .....checkmate

but you still have not explained why this happens to everyone from any ethnicity or culture or are you saying that all cultures are extreme. You have afghan, arab,indian, native american, african, southeast asian women with afghan, arab, indian, native american, african, southeast asian men and with each other. You just don't understand nature. Most women go to the first man that gives them attention and tells her how special she is and its not the extreme culture that makes them run away its usually because the father never gave his daughter love/attention or the right kind of love/attention. It has more to do with the father daughter relationship than anything else.

This is a cowardly excuse; if you have strong culture to begin with, you won't be "assimilated" because your culture is too strong to let externalities affect it.

The "saying"..."resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" is a line from Star Trek the Next Generation by The Borg ...good God ....you take a script line as sociological truth?

I know that but it fits here.

This is imperialist indoctrination that only works on weak people; This just means Pashtun society is not viable to meet the challenges of corrupt influences. In other words it's Pashtun culture's extremes that motivate these extremes.

Not really. Thats like saying that when muslims leave Islam and many do and turn to atheism or some non belief(do as the people do), there is something wrong with Islam but in reality there is something wrong with people. If pashtuns are abandoning their culture or religion, that does not mean there is something wrong with Islam or the culture. It is the people, that is where the fault is. Its weak and corrupt people like you and the people in the pics you've posted who is leaving the culture and religion. You and them would rather lead a corrupt cultureless life than a pious and ghyratmand life.

[khushal]

Those Indian Khan's are Indianized probably because most of them "Indian" Very few are "actually" Afghan. Heck I might even doubt if any are considering it's a big industry to claim being "Pathan" in bollywood.

That's cause "Pathan" is synonymous with Ghyrat. Thats the culture at work where they envy the culture. That just reenforces my argument.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

So then you concede .....Not much "Ghairat" , not much Ghairat in letting your women become ****s.

[khushal]

Not much ghyrat with people like you. I dont blame the culture, I blame you.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

In that thread I never made any claims, I found errors in your source and how you applied it to fit your narrative, its there, just read it. Your claim that I am apologizing for something is a strawman because your simply lieing.

You made the claim that Pashtuns mistreat women because they woman gets married off and men stay with him. The only one lying here is you , either that or you have selective amnesia.

That's what I'm referring to as an apology; that's no strawman, that's an analysis of what you're doing. An Analysis can't be a strawman because I am NOT claiming you're saying that. I'm claiming that your argument performs that function

Get it straight you sound foolish when you get terminology wrong.

read what I said and how its faulty. If you understood things on the ground in afghanistan, you would know exactly how its faulty.

I read what you wrote ; your Personal Anecdote argument has no merits to begin with, from a logical standpoint. It's a Personal Anecdote fallacy. Furthermore you're known for blatantly lying in debates. Therefore your personal claim is not evidence of faultiness.

Your sources are either faulty like the 70% rape claim and I proved how they are faulty or you apply them wrong like with the case of pashtunwali promotes the hate for women.

Your personal anecdotes do not constitute proof; evidence constitutes refutation; you've not provided any. So this claim is also debunked.

Sure it does. If a person enters society A from society B and is raising a family there, that person will be consumed by society A culturally because the weight of society A is astronomical compared to the migrant. If the migrants from Society A that enter Society B is equal in number to Society B, then two societies cultures would intermix and form a new culture. Law of Eqilibrium at play. That is why when America allows immigrants from the East, they allow them slowly so their own culture or values are not influenced.

That's still NOT the Law of Equilibrium .....The Weight of Society A does not automatically lead to cultural subordination. The British were very few in number and entrenched in Afghan territories for more than 3 generations, They retained their cultural identity. This falsifies your argument.

I already pointed out that it could take a generation or two and if the community is big in numbers it would take longer but still the inevitable would occur.

And I already pointed out the British were there for more than 3 generations, close to 4. Your claim is falsified.

Nope, the strength of your culture is determined by how intrinsic it is with its environment and by the population of its community.

If this was true than Anglo Culture wouldn't have spread to the Western Hemisphere. Again another claim/argument of yours has been falsified.

This is evident by the fact that throughout history when people migrated, they either adopted they culture of their host society or if they were big in numbers they influenced their host societies.

Yes IT CAN happen, but only if the culture is intrinsically weaker. And things become weaker when they're internally dysfunctional. Pashtuns would be an example of that. As I already pointed out, Anglo Culture spread into many parts of the world including the subcontinent and more blatantly America and Australia. This falsifies your claim.

but you still have not explained why this happens to everyone from any ethnicity or culture or are you saying that all cultures are extreme.

That's because that isn't my claim; that's your claim; Strawman Argument fallacy.

Most women go to the first man that gives them attention and tells her how special she is and its not the extreme culture that makes them run away its usually because the father never gave his daughter love/attention or the right kind of love/attention.

That's not necessarily true; According to Evolutionary Biology; women go for males who are conducive to their well being. an Over bearing father, brother, male figure etc who restricts her natural biological instincts would jeopardize those. A man who flatters would not in normal circumstances persuade women, because women would think he's a "push over" and a "sissy" and easy to subdue. Therefore not secure. That's why they say "nice guys finish last". It's only After women have achieved sureity of a man's viability that flattery becomes accepted.

Therefore NORMAL/HEALTHY women want a MODERATE not a flattery or an Abusive mate.

Even in Pashto culture the word "chaproos" referring to flattery or people who flatter is a derogatory term. So Attention and flattery are NOT in themselves what makes a woman interested in a man. The Abusiveness of Pashtuns leads to seeking refuge in a non-abusive scenario because in comparison that would provide security IN contrast to the Pashtun syste,.

Therefore the ONLY feasible way for a man to be able to lure a woman with merely "chaproos" is if the woman has been subject to such extreme conditions of deprivation like in a Pashtunwali system that their natural reaction would be to latch on to any outlet for escape, since in normal circumstances a chaproosi is counter

This is Evolutionary Biology here; ....and that is what is natural; your descriptions are a faulty portrayal of nature.

It has more to do with the father daughter relationship than anything else.

Well yeah duh, the abusive Pashtunwali father will obviously push her daughter in that direction. That's how the whole "get back at daddy" scheme comes into play.

I know that but it fits here.

A Bogus ...unsupported statement fits here? I don't think so

Not really. Thats like saying that when muslims leave Islam and many do and turn to atheism or some non belief(do as the people do), there is something wrong with Islam but in reality there is something wrong with people. If pashtuns are abandoning their culture or religion.

The comparison is not even remote, since Islam is a system of life with concrete governing principles. By YOUR own admission Pashtunwali is not concrete.; When people fall from Islam it's due to nonpractice or finding something they prefer more than Islam; where as in pashtunwali IT IS THE PRACTICE of Pashtunwali that causes people to run away from their culture.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Not much ghyrat with people like you. I dont blame the culture, I blame you.

You're the one who's pushing women to run away from Pashtun culture because they feel it traps them and violates their sense of well being.

the blame is your culture's and individuals like you that perpetuate it.

[khushal]

no one is trapped in pashtun culture and peoples well being is ensured.

Your just a weakling who hates himself and is projecting that hate towards the culture.

[Manzareh]

Your information about pashtuns is all fabricated bollox twisted to suit your own personal opinions. Whether you were subject to some sort of kiddy fiddling or rape growing up we do not know, however what we do know is your obsessions for your gross sexual innuendos talking about raping little boys, homosexuality and butts, your nickname here is even butthead.

Either its a case of you have no identity, which could be the main reason your always mad at anyone and everyone or your just addicted to "online wars" because your a keyboard warrior, but at 40+ years old why you would actually join up a random forum to look for a debate on such disgusting levels, you would do anything for an online war to provoke people :S

You have a cluster B personality disorder - research that it may help you out because at this rate your going to be either

A) a perverted old man
B) grumpy old man

There is no other middle ground mate, sort yourself out before its too late.

[khushal]

You made the claim that Pashtuns mistreat women because they woman gets married off and men stay with him. The only one lying here is you , either that or you have selective amnesia.

I never said this. provide proof for this.

That's still NOT the Law of Equilibrium .....The Weight of Society A does not automatically lead to cultural subordination. The British were very few in number and entrenched in Afghan territories for more than 3 generations, They retained their cultural identity. This falsifies your argument.

They were either massacred or kicked out. Your analogy is flawed.

And I already pointed out the British were there for more than 3 generations, close to 4. Your claim is falsified.

as an invasion force with guns, they were in control under their own laws. its not the same as a family moving there and living there under the laws of land.

[quote]
Yes IT CAN happen, but only if the culture is intrinsically weaker. And things become weaker when they're internally dysfunctional. Pashtuns would be an example of that. As I already pointed out, Anglo Culture spread into many parts of the world including the subcontinent and more blatantly America and Australia. This falsifies your claim.
Australias and Americas indigenous population was exterminated but still they influenced American laws and culture. And when the brits went, they made their own laws in the land they conquered. Again its not the same as people migrating to live under the law of the land.

Even in Pashto culture the word "chaproos" referring to flattery or people who flatter is a derogatory term. So Attention and flattery are NOT in themselves what makes a woman interested in a man. The Abusiveness of Pashtuns leads to seeking refuge in a non-abusive scenario because in comparison that would provide security IN contrast to the Pashtun syste,.

Therefore the ONLY feasible way for a man to be able to lure a woman with merely "chaproos" is if the woman has been subject to such extreme conditions of deprivation like in a Pashtunwali system that their natural reaction would be to latch on to any outlet for escape, since in normal circumstances a chaproosi is counter

This is Evolutionary Biology here; ....and that is what is natural; your descriptions are a faulty portrayal of nature.

Not always. Evolutionary biology is more complex than how you describe it. Girls who grow up in a household where her father beat up her mother usually ends up ina relationship where she is beat up by her husband because she thinks thats normal. A girl raised in a family where love was spread usually ends up in a realtionship that does not tollerate a beating, and its also about the personality of the girl. Some girls are too passive and others are aggressive.

The comparison is not even remote, since Islam is a system of life with concrete governing principles. By YOUR own admission Pashtunwali is not concrete.; When people fall from Islam it's due to nonpractice or finding something they prefer more than Islam; where as in pashtunwali IT IS THE PRACTICE of Pashtunwali that causes people to run away from their culture.

People leave Islam because they never understood it in the first place and those people that abandon their culture falls in the same category, they never understood it in the first place.

[faye]

if anything is natural in human beings, it is curiosity. humans are inclined to take an interest, in new things and ideas.
there is no need to be making excuses as to why people abandon their culture or their religion, change is inevitable in nature and throughout history.
when i went through the east in the 60's, people there wanted western things, jeans, biros, watches, portable radios, etc. and even had playboy magazines.
westerners were seeking eastern things and ideas.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I never said this. provide proof for this.

checkmate

When a baby girls is born, it is considered not as joyous as a baby boy because they know the girl would one day leave them, the boy will always stay with the family. The girl is considered a temporary member of the family while the boy is considered a permanent member.

They were either massacred or kicked out. Your analogy is flawed.

and they came back soon after ...so much for kicked out.

as an invasion force with guns, they were in control under their own laws. its not the same as a family moving there and living there under the laws of land

If that's the argument , then you're admitting their culture were more powerful than Pashtuns. However, Pashtuns had more guns, manpower and weapons; and the King who became their lackey, was also a Pashtun. So this argument has no merit even in this context.

Again falsified

[quote]
Yes IT CAN happen, but only if the culture is intrinsically weaker. And things become weaker when they're internally dysfunctional. Pashtuns would be an example of that. As I already pointed out, Anglo Culture spread into many parts of the world including the subcontinent and more blatantly America and Australia. This falsifies your claim.

Australias and Americas indigenous population was exterminated but still they influenced American laws and culture. And when the brits went, they made their own laws in the land they conquered. Again its not the same as people migrating to live under the law of the land.

Show proof Indigenous people have influenced the Laws and Culture of America.

The Anglos had a stronger culture than the Indigenous people; that's why they didn't have to obey the Laws of the Land. See what I'm getting at here?

Intrinsically dysfunctional= weaker= more susceptible to disintegration.

Not always. Evolutionary biology is more complex than how you describe it. Girls who grow up in a household where her father beat up her mother usually ends up ina relationship where she is beat up by her husband because she thinks thats normal. A girl raised in a family where love was spread usually ends up in a realtionship that does not tollerate a beating, and its also about the personality of the girl. Some girls are too passive and others are aggressive.

No That is exactly how EVOLUTIONARY Biology works see?

http://www.unm.edu/~gfmiller/new_papers/sefcek%20miller%202006%20matechoice.pdf

Consequently, women must rely on several cues to infer a man’s potential for commitment and investment. One set of cues signal a man’s access to material resources. In evaluating these cues, the woman is asking herself, “Does he have the resources to invest in me and my offspring?” Another set of cues suggests a man’s willingness to invest. In essence, the woman is asking, “Given that he has the resources, what is the likelihood that he will use them to aid me and my children?”

See ...well being? Only when a culture like Pashtunwali warps its women do they end up making the types of poor choices you describe. heh

People leave Islam because they never understood it in the first place and those people that abandon their culture falls in the same category, they never understood it in the first place.

Thank you; you're actually proving my point; Since Islam is concrete and clearly defined it is a LACK of understanding Islam that leads to the situations you describe. Where as since Pashtunwali is not concrete , subjective and based on emotional impulse; it becomes intrisnically flawed

there by for THE reason you outline it's the Pashtunwali that's the problem THANK you for falling for my trap and verifying my point ...you played into it well.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Your information about pashtuns is all fabricated bollox twisted to suit your own personal opinions. Whether you were subject to some sort of kiddy fiddling or rape growing up we do not know, however what we do know is your obsessions for your gross sexual innuendos talking about raping little boys, homosexuality and butts, your nickname here is even butthead.

Either its a case of you have no identity, which could be the main reason your always mad at anyone and everyone or your just addicted to "online wars" because your a keyboard warrior, but at 40+ years old why you would actually join up a random forum to look for a debate on such disgusting levels, you would do anything for an online war to provoke people :S

You have a cluster B personality disorder - research that it may help you out because at this rate your going to be either

A) a perverted old man
B) grumpy old man

There is no other middle ground mate, sort yourself out before its too late.

Manzareh; naturally you would assume others are subject to kiddy fiddling and rape because these were your own experiences; so you naturally conclude what happened to you happens to others too. It's a way you cope with your own abuse by trying to convince yourself it is normal; but rest assured it isn't.

If any of my points were wrong then you'd have refuted it WITH EVIDENCE, not personal claims or anecdotes, but a REFERENCE a STUDY , ACTUAL RESEARCH. You have none of these and thus have no basis for saying anything you said.

Your portrayal of me is really a you transferring people in your personal life; How else do you know so much detail about the types of patterns they have? It would only be fair to conclude this character you created of the "perverted old man" is actually based on someone you've encountered personally .or perhaps a Man outside your family, who visits your mother when your father is away.

This explains all your angst towards women and why you make such faulty accusations on people you never met.

[Manzareh]

Manzareh; naturally you would assume others are subject to kiddy fiddling and rape because these were your own experiences; so you naturally conclude what happened to you happens to others too. It's a way you cope with your own abuse by trying to convince yourself it is normal; but rest assured it isn't.

If any of my points were wrong then you'd have refuted it WITH EVIDENCE, not personal claims or anecdotes, but a REFERENCE a STUDY , ACTUAL RESEARCH. You have none of these and thus have no basis for saying anything you said.

Your portrayal of me is really a you transferring people in your personal life; How else do you know so much detail about the types of patterns they have? It would only be fair to conclude this character you created of the "perverted old man" is actually based on someone you've encountered personally .or perhaps a Man outside your family, who visits your mother when your father is away.

This explains all your angst towards women and why you make such faulty accusations on people you never met.

Ok so you have no reply other than making every single thing said to you reversed in a twisted up way. People usually stop doing that after puberty. Grow up you little sissy.

Think about it though, no one dwells upon homosexuality, child rape and all your other perverted material as much as you do. The obvious answer as to why your so attached to such things is your surroundings your family and traumatic experiences anybody reading this and have read your posts will understand what I'm saying.

"whats the evidence,? which hypothesis? what book number? what this and what that" f**k all of that khushal already deals with you on that level, save your hypothesis nonsense for non-pashtuns, Pashtuns are their own evidence, I'm a pashtun and I know my own culture, iv lived with my people, if your a Pashtun and have experienced bacha bazi, rape, homosexuality and all other stuff your always heated up about then don't be shy to tell us what happened, it would be interesting to hear how f***ed up you and the people around you are that your so in depth with all of this, your here trying to tell Pashtuns all your nonsense but its a waste of time because Pashtuns know Pashtuns and I'm sure we can all agree that your a very small minority of people that have been subjugated to such things.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Manzareh, when I comment about child rape; it's because I have a natural concern for victims of cruelty and injustice.

When you accuse me of a bunch of absurd associations; it's because you're desperately trying to discredit what I'm saying; you're using it to attack me as a person. You're using it to avoid having to actually argue against my points. and rather go into a diversion.

That's why when you make allusions to being rape; it's really you transferring your own personal experiences. Same with perverted old men, it's you describing the trauma of your mother meeting with men when your dad's away.

For me my concern for children being raped is because of my sympathy for innocent children. That's what sets our arguments apart.

[faye]

The Anglos had a stronger culture than the Indigenous people; that's why they didn't have to obey the Laws of the Land. See what I'm getting at here?
Intrinsically dysfunctional= weaker= more susceptible to disintegration.
See ...well being? Only when a culture like Pashtunwali warps its women do they end up making the types of poor choices you describe. heh

wrong... the anglos had a racist mindset, lack of compassion, greed and stronger firepower.

people in any society, from any upbringing can make faulty choices. it is one of the ways that human beings learn.

i also read that an american president learned from native americans, for structuring government.