Does thinking for yourself automatically dub you as a conspiracist?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

^ RTR, I read the Pashtunwali written down by Chadim, and the way he portrays Pashtun women is quite different from what you say.
I also know that position of a woman can be very different from what Chadim wrote.
Maybe there is no one Pashtunwali?

well then if Pashtunwali is open to interpretation .....then maybe Pashtunwali is bogus to begin with?

[یاسمینه]

I don't know it its open for interpretation or if it's fake or not. From what I see and read, woman is a senstivie issue, but different Pashtuns (men) can have different attitudes towards Pashtun women, and every Pashtun says that his attitide reflects till some extent PW.
Do you know what Chadim writes about women?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I don't know it its open for interpretation or if it's fake or not. From what I see and read, woman is a senstivie issue, but different Pashtuns (men) can have different attitudes towards Pashtun women, and every Pashtun says that his attitide reflects till some extent PW.
Do you know what Chadim writes about women?

well I'm going by how Pashtunwali is actually practiced and the consensus about it. I'm sure many Western influenced Pashtun nationalists want to redeem Pashtunwali's publicity in the Western eyes.

Is Chadim one of such people?

[khushal]

I perfectly agree with DZJ on this. What an enlightened lady---- And Mangakoray should first know the difference between decrease and disease-

We all wish you were so enlightened.
Its decease and disease, no one is talking about decrease.

[یاسمینه]

well I'm going by how Pashtunwali is actually practiced and the consensus about it. I'm sure many Western influenced Pashtun nationalists want to redeem Pashtunwali's publicity in the Western eyes.

Is Chadim one of such people?

Well, Qyamuddin Khadem wrote down his understanding of Pashtunwali long ago - it was published in 1952/1953 in Kabul by Pashto Society. The book was in Pashto, nowadays the language of the book seems to be a bit outdated. I can't say if he was Western infulenced Pashtun nationalist. I think he was a patriot.
I don't think he wrote the book to please Westerners. First, the book is written in Pashtok. Second, a random Westerner wouldn't understand too much of this book, not only because of its language. There is no a single comment explaining/ commenting on certain habits of Pashtuns.

Ps. I am sorry for confusion - I wrote in my previous post Chadim (Polish transcription) instead of Khadem or Khadeem.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Well, Qyamuddin Khadem wrote down his understanding of Pashtunwali long ago - it was published in 1952/1953 in Kabul by Pashto Society. The book was in Pashto, nowadays the language of the book seems to be a bit outdated. I can't say if he was Western infulenced Pashtun nationalist. I think he was a patriot.
I don't think he wrote the book to please Westerners. First, the book is written in Pashtok. Second, a random Westerner wouldn't understand too much of this book, not only because of its language. There is no a single comment explaining/ commenting on certain habits of Pashtuns.

Ps. I am sorry for confusion - I wrote in my previous post Chadim (Polish transcription) instead of Khadem or Khadeem.

well that answers my first question; what does he state?

[یاسمینه]

briefly, he says that women participate in daily life as much as men do, that they are brave, they have right to earn money if a husband can't etc. But when he lists duties of women in the falmily - the list seems to be endless. Also he mention that woman = honor of the man. In one chapter he directly writes that baby girl is always worse than a baby boy. He also emphasizes that in certain issues women are treated in the same was as man.
In fact he doesn't write too much about women.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

briefly, he says that women participate in daily life as much as men do, that they are brave, they have right to earn money if a husband can't etc. But when he lists duties of women in the falmily - the list seems to be endless. Also he mention that woman = honor of the man. In one chapter he directly writes that baby girl is always worse than a baby boy. He also emphasizes that in certain issues women are treated in the same was as man.
In fact he doesn't write too much about women.

Well the description that is portrayed here seems nebulous, also the issue of women earning money doesn't seem consistent. That doesn't mean Pashtun women don't money; But in Pashtun culture if a woman is making money and there is no male around, she is assumed to be a prostitute. No lie.

Sick culture we have,

[khushal]

Well the description that is portrayed here seems nebulous, also the issue of women earning money doesn't seem consistent. That doesn't mean Pashtun women don't money; But in Pashtun culture if a woman is making money and there is no male around, she is assumed to be a prostitute. No lie.

Sick culture we have,

Its you that is sick for thinking such things. That mental illness is showing up again making things up.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Its you that is sick for thinking such things. That mental illness is showing up again making things up.

I'm NOT thinking such things, I'm relaying the attitudes of Pashtuns about women, these are not MY thoughts.

Look at how you degraded DZJ , implying she wasn't a woman merely because she has the courage to tell weak idiots like yourself off which makes your your manhood feel threatened (not that you have any to begin with). It's EXACTLY THOSE types of attitudes of how a "woman is supposed to be" that create this cultural attitude that portray a woman who earns money ....without a male provider is a prostitute.

The sickness is in your culture and people like you who perpetuate it.

[khushal]

briefly, he says that women participate in daily life as much as men do, that they are brave, they have right to earn money if a husband can't etc. But when he lists duties of women in the family - the list seems to be endless. Also he mention that woman = honor of the man. In one chapter he directly writes that baby girl is always worse than a baby boy. He also emphasizes that in certain issues women are treated in the same was as man.
In fact he doesn't write too much about women.

Its not just woman = honor of the man but also the other way around. For example woman have also taken revenge for their brother's or husbands murder by killing the murderer. When a male member of the family is to scared to fight for the family's honor, the women usually steps in and forces the man to do his job or she will and its always shameful in pashtun culture if the man does not do what the woman will like fight for the family honor or provide for the family.
I have seen many Kochi women carry guns with them at all times. They will not hesitate to shoot you if you cross them.

When a baby girls is born, it is considered not as joyous as a baby boy because they know the girl would one day leave them, the boy will always stay with the family. The girl is considered a temporary member of the family while the boy is considered a permanent member. During weddings the brides family including the bride is always seen crying.

[khushal]

yes of course , since in Pashtunwali women are expected to be quiet and subordinate and completely domesticated towards men and never talk back to a man since they're merely property with no will or self determination. So we can definitely see how you would make that error given that amazing respect for women that Pashtunwali teaches you ....not

Says the pervert who advertises soft porn on this forum.

[khushal]

^ RTR, I read the Pashtunwali written down by Chadim, and the way he portrays Pashtun women is quite different from what you say.
I also know that position of a woman can be very different from what Chadim wrote.
Maybe there is no one Pashtunwali?

You are correct. Pashtunwali evolves according to the situation. It clearly says that in lutz's analysis and he words it perfectly.
http://www.humansecuritygateway.com/documents/AAN_DoingPashto.pdf

It is necessary first to understand legislation and authority outside of their more common
state-bound usage. In the context of customary and tribal law in Afghanistan, legislation occurs
where adjudication takes place (by the person who judges or arbitrates), since there are no
codified laws and there is only a vague sense of precedence. While there are specific laws that
comprise part of the overarching concepts in Pashtunwali, they are few in number and they differ
from region to region and among social classes; they are thus hard to pin down for the purposes
of this paper. Therefore, in the context of this paper, legislation will be defined as the enactment
of laws that are neither codified nor are part of a corpus of state or regional laws. In the
legislation of customary law, community councils and leaders draw from many different legal
systems, such as local customs, tribal laws, Islamic law, and state law. Communal leaders are
interested in reaching a decision that is most acceptable to the mood of the community at the
time the event happened, as well as one that will be in the best interests of the community as a
whole. Through publicly enacting norms that fulfill the precepts of Pashtunwali, such as honor,
hospitality, gender boundaries, and the institution of jirga, the Pashtun maintains a specific social
order and furthermore sustains a religious-ethnic identity.

And the mood of the community changes to different situations. ITs different during wars and its different during peace times.

[khushal]

I don't know it its open for interpretation or if it's fake or not. From what I see and read, woman is a senstivie issue, but different Pashtuns (men) can have different attitudes towards Pashtun women, and every Pashtun says that his attitide reflects till some extent PW.
Do you know what Chadim writes about women?

Again Lutz answers this question.

The rules of conduct of Pashtunwali follow the dichotomy of honour and shame. Behaviour, consequently, is guided by the question as to how it is evaluated in the eyes of others according to the common understanding of honour and shame..

Different Pashtun men have different attitudes because it is guided by how shame is perceived and evaluated. These are RTR's sources and he has failed to read them.

[یاسمینه]

Its not just woman = honor of the man but also the other way around. For example woman have also taken revenge for their brother's or husbands murder by killing the murderer. When a male member of the family is to scared to fight for the family's honor, the women usually steps in and forces the man to do his job or she will and its always shameful in pashtun culture if the man does not do what the woman will like fight for the family honor or provide for the family.
I have seen many Kochi women carry guns with them at all times. They will not hesitate to shoot you if you cross them.

When a baby girls is born, it is considered not as joyous as a baby boy because they know the girl would one day leave them, the boy will always stay with the family. The girl is considered a temporary member of the family while the boy is considered a permanent member. During weddings the brides family including the bride is always seen crying.

Thank you for explanation. But what I wrote in my post was based only on Kiyam ad-Din Khadim book Pashtunwali. He writes about Pashtun women only positive things.