Afghanistan major non-NATO U.S. ally?

[R3SISTANC3]

oh of course ....yes a rag tag group which must all pay allegiance to Mullah Omar, obey and enforce his edicts. Either Mullah Omar is a piss poor leader or Taliban were doing just as he sanctioned. Which is it?

who are you fooling with that two page nonsense of essentially narrative "counter" propaganda?

Right, Mullah Omar and his Taliban, are a highly sophisticated organization yet depend on the khairaat and protection of the ISI and Pakis...which is it? Allegiance is always given in public, but people still do what they want. Example is TTP, they give their allegiance to Mullah Omar, however they pay no heed to his ranks or that of the Haqqanis when it comes to dealing with Pakis.

But what's your highly illuminated narrative, US/NATO are in Afghanistan because they feel your pain and suffering?

Let me ask you another thing, who do you think the US/NATO will go with, if they had their way, Pakistan or Afghanistan?

[khushal]

An open question:
Did anybody visit the capital of Taliban(Kandahar)from 1996-2001? It seems like we have many "experts" here, but how many of you have witnessed things from your own eyes?

have not been to kandahar since I was 2 years old Admina, but I can tell you that Paktia during the Taliban rule was peaceful. The brutal warlords had been driven out and had found refuge in Pakistan. Crime was almost nonexistant unlike today where criminal elements are everywhere. People were poor though, but the common man even today is poor. There were no modern medical facilities, but today they still dont exist. Schools were open but were poorly funded at the time. Schools today in Paktia are much better.

97% of the afghan economy is NATO spending. take that away and what do you have.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Right, Mullah Omar and his Taliban, are a highly sophisticated organization yet depend on the khairaat and protection of the ISI and Pakis...which is it? Allegiance is always given in public, but people still do what they want. Example is TTP, they give their allegiance to Mullah Omar, however they pay no heed to his ranks or that of the Haqqanis when it comes to dealing with Pakis.

But what's your highly illuminated narrative, US/NATO are in Afghanistan because they feel your pain and suffering?

Let me ask you another thing, who do you think the US/NATO will go with, if they had their way, Pakistan or Afghanistan?

it takes a tremendous amount of sophistication to keep your organization legit huh? I mean considering they claim to be following and obeying Islam and all and that doesn't require some sophistication and Islam teaches that leaders must put their peoples needs first. But somehow suddenly it needs sophistication.

but amazingly for such lack of sophistication they can have meetings with Unocal and European Consortiums about capitalizing on a pipeline.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

have not been to kandahar since I was 2 years old Admina, but I can tell you that Paktia during the Taliban rule was peaceful. The brutal warlords had been driven out and had found refuge in Pakistan. Crime was almost nonexistant unlike today where criminal elements are everywhere. People were poor though, but the common man even today is poor. There were no modern medical facilities, but today they still dont exist. Schools were open but were poorly funded at the time. Schools today in Paktia are much better.

97% of the afghan economy is NATO spending. take that away and what do you have.

All my friends from Paktia say the opposite; one guy I know who is a Zazai in fact told me that once Taliban beat a Mashar for not praying Asr, when he already prayed asr earlier.....and that Taliban would often barge into peoples homes in Paktia making them give them dodai and if they didn't have dodai, they'd ask for money.

some peace

[khushal]

Are you high on hashish brother? What by the way Taleban achieved in 6 years of their rule in terms of economy, infrastructure, education, institution building, and other sectors of development? As for I remember, Peshawar in those days swirled with helpless families from Afghanistan living in squalid conditions. You could see hundreds of women begging in shops, malls, etc. Thanks God that situation has disappeared with the present democratic dispensation.

The security Taleban brought was nothing more than like in a prison. And has not the present democratic govt faced disruption of peace and stability at the hands of Pakistan's Taleban proxies? The destabilizing acts characterized by suicide bombing and indiscriminate killing of people in mosques are rather more horrendous than those of Dostums etc.

At least one should say something that makes sense.

There are still beggars in peshawar. The only reason it has decreased is because of NATO money flowing in. It is not because of the great administration of the competent Karzai regime. Take away NATO money and you will have the same situation as that of what you describe.
The only reason that the Taliban can achieve this destability is because the Karzai regime has not brought justice to the common afghan. Tell the afghan government to bring justice to the common afghan and the destability will disappear.

[khushal]

All my friends from Paktia say the opposite; one guy I know who is a Zazai in fact told me that once Taliban beat a Mashar for not praying Asr, when he already prayed asr earlier.....and that Taliban would often barge into peoples homes in Paktia making them give them dodai and if they didn't have dodai, they'd ask for money.

some peace

Sounds like a made up story. that did not happen in Paktia, those thing happened in kabul and the Shomali. In Paktia men were roaming around without beards, not everyone prayed at the mosque. Taliban barging into homes in paktia was impossible back then. People were armed to the teeth, they would be too afraid to clash with locals.

The problem with you is that you think all of afghanistan is the same because you have not been there.

[khushal]

it takes a tremendous amount of sophistication to keep your organization legit huh? I mean considering they claim to be following and obeying Islam and all and that doesn't require some sophistication and Islam teaches that leaders must put their peoples needs first. But somehow suddenly it needs sophistication.

but amazingly for such lack of sophistication they can have meetings with Unocal and European Consortiums about capitalizing on a pipeline.

well they needed the sophistication of unicol and the europeans to build the pipeline. If they had their own sophistication, they would not be sitting with them now would they.

[khushal]

many soldiers don't even have decent guns or enough ammo. lets start there instead of jet fighters that are practically useless to the afghan army.

The ANA sells their guns and ammo on the market. The problem with the ANA is not that they are not well supplied and trained, they have the best army in the world training them and supplying them, its that most soldiers dont care. there is no moral.

[R3SISTANC3]

Are you high on hashish brother? What by the way Taleban achieved in 6 years of their rule in terms of economy, infrastructure, education, institution building, and other sectors of development? As for I remember, Peshawar in those days swirled with helpless families from Afghanistan living in squalid conditions. You could see hundreds of women begging in shops, malls, etc. Thanks God that situation has disappeared with the present democratic dispensation.

The security Taleban brought was nothing more than like in a prison. And has not the present democratic govt faced disruption of peace and stability at the hands of Pakistan's Taleban proxies? The destabilizing acts characterized by suicide bombing and indiscriminate killing of people in mosques are rather more horrendous than those of Dostums etc.

At least one should say something that makes sense.

No brother, but you need to lay off the vodka.

Taliban didn't bring any of that, you are right. They couldn't because they need money and resources for economy, infrastructure, education, and institution building. They needed experience, and education which they also lacked. What they could do, was that they brought security, stability, gotten rid of corruption, warlords, and drug lords. For that you don't need experience, resources, money or education. For that you need character, you need ethics, you need morals, you need consistency.

Now lets look at the "democratic" (yet some would call it ethnocentric nepotism) dispensation has achieved. They have an economy, schools, institutions, army, police, TV and Radio stations, roads, fancy houses and markets...all of that was possible because of donations. Donations that the Taliban didn't receive. But are they able to bring security, justice, get rid of corruption, and reduce the drug/poppy cultivation which under the Talibs was 0 and under them has reached 80% production for the whole planet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan

You know why they can't, because to bring about all of that you need:

you need character, you need ethics, you need morals, you need consistency.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Sounds like a made up story. that did not happen in Paktia, those thing happened in kabul and the Shomali. In Paktia men were roaming around without beards, not everyone prayed at the mosque. Taliban barging into homes in paktia was impossible back then. People were armed to the teeth, they would be too afraid to clash with locals.

The problem with you is that you think all of afghanistan is the same because you have not been there.

nope it happened in Paktia........Mashars aren't exactly common in Kabul.

no problem here; we're talking about about Paktia and I m giving examples from people living in Paktia who lived there. If there's a problem; it stems from you being unable to cope with Taliban disapproval and opposition from Pashtuns

That's why when the Taliban was toppled the people in Paktia joined with Pacha Khan in expelling them out. That's how bad they hated the Taliban, they'd join with ex commie Pacha Khan.

[R3SISTANC3]

it takes a tremendous amount of sophistication to keep your organization legit huh? I mean considering they claim to be following and obeying Islam and all and that doesn't require some sophistication and Islam teaches that leaders must put their peoples needs first. But somehow suddenly it needs sophistication.

but amazingly for such lack of sophistication they can have meetings with Unocal and European Consortiums about capitalizing on a pipeline.

You didn't answer my question, if the US/NATO can have their way, who would they choose Afghanistan and Afghans, or Pakistan and Pakis? Who would they deal with....who would they prefer.

[khushal]

nope it happened in Paktia........Mashars aren't exactly common in Kabul.

no problem here; we're talking about about Paktia and I m giving examples from people living in Paktia who lived there. If there's a problem; it stems from you being unable to cope with Taliban disapproval and opposition from Pashtuns

That's why when the Taliban was toppled the people in Paktia joined with Pacha Khan in expelling them out. That's how bad they hated the Taliban, they'd join with ex commie Pacha Khan.

Your made up stories dont work.
those are corrupt warlords who are paid mercenaries, they dont work for the common afghan. The taliban were toppled by american bombers and special forces who advised mercenary armies not by the afghan people.
Take away NATO and pacha khan would disappear with it.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

well they needed the sophistication of unicol and the europeans to build the pipeline. If they had their own sophistication, they would not be sitting with them now would they.

we're not talking about sophistication to build a pipeline; but being able to be a good leader; if Mullah Omar can't keep sway over his "rag tag band" of warriors; ....he must be a terrible leader

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Your made up stories dont work.
those are corrupt warlords who are paid mercenaries, they dont work for the common afghan. The taliban were toppled by american bombers and special forces who advised mercenary armies not by the afghan people.
Take away NATO and pacha khan would disappear with it.

If anyone needs to make up stories here; it would be you.

You still can't explain why Paktiawals and their Mashars joined up with Pacha Khan to evict the Taliban. I mean Pacha Khan is low life, but something must be wrong with the Taliban if Paktawal would be willing to do that. Your argument that Taliban were toppled by NATO in itself defeats your argument, because it means that Taliban were only able to impose themselves on Paktia by force.


you're just in denial.

[R3SISTANC3]

Afghanistan needs a new leader Resistance. Taliban, or the Karzai corruptristration aren't cutting it.

I agree with you that Afghanistan needs someone that can consider all sides and bring about serious changes. My intent wasn't to cheer lead for the Taliban, just tackling exaggerated reports of foreign benevolence which escapes common sense. Something that the parties arguing with me have expressed themselves.