The case for Pakhtunkhwa

[Master Khan]

Yaara kho, just call it Pakhtunkhwa,
Feel like shooting these idiots.

[tor_khan]

Pashtoons have long grown used to compromise, but in my heart it should have been Pakhtunistan, Pakhtunkhwa or Afghania for me.

Next thing - autonomy, rejection of Urdufication, education and emancipation.

[Talal]

what is "urdufication" ? i hear new terms on this forum everyday, urdu is a language that is meant to bring people from all ethnicities together on a single platform and help them understand and appreciate eachother through this common language.

One of the biggest nightmares for the US training Afghan soldiers is their inability to communicate with the trainees because every other bloke speaks a different language. A language is at the core of every nation its what binds the people as one nation and a common language is something Afghanistan direly needs

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Pakistan is not a nation, it is a multi-national state. Urdu is not a unifier...history should have told you this already...but God forbid any of you read it. Urdu was one of the reasons Bengalis lost favour with the state of Pakistan. It lead to riots there. Also the reason urdu is even in pashtunkhwa was by the british, as they wanted to cut pashtuns away from their own in Afghanistan...so they replaced farsi with urdu (pashto was never developed to begin with there, other then a few examples). Third of all, english is sufficient for the communities to speak with one another, why urdu is beyond me. Afghanistan was generally a bilingual country, so there was no issue before with their army. As the state collapsed and the hatred of the civil war, it will take time to fix it back to what it was.

[tor_khan]

what is "urdufication" ? i hear new terms on this forum everyday, urdu is a language that is meant to bring people from all ethnicities together on a single platform and help them understand and appreciate eachother through this common language.

One of the biggest nightmares for the US training Afghan soldiers is their inability to communicate with the trainees because every other bloke speaks a different language. A language is at the core of every nation its what binds the people as one nation and a common language is something Afghanistan direly needs

Are you suggesting that Urdu expansionism move into Afghanistan as well?

I have no problems with Urdu per se, but it enrages me how local languages have been disregarded in Pak. On top of which Urdu speakers mock Pashtoons who might mix up their Urdu when conversing.

Pashtoons = Pashto. And Pashtoons have the right to preserve their language. Urdu should be strictly additional and not used as a political tool.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

^^agreed tor khaana...better yet keep it just english, why this other foreign language. Urdu is just a vestige of Mughals, who were, lets be frank our generational enemies. There is no point in really putting it above pashto. It should english and pashto.

[Talal]

Are you suggesting that Urdu expansionism move into Afghanistan as well?

I have no problems with Urdu per se, but it enrages me how local languages have been disregarded in Pak. On top of which Urdu speakers mock Pashtoons who might mix up their Urdu when conversing.

Pashtoons = Pashto. And Pashtoons have the right to preserve their language. Urdu should be strictly additional and not used as a political tool.

why would I suggest that ? And what made u think I would sugget a completely foreign language to be used as a standard in Afghanistan. The point I made was that Afghans need a common language and the best candidate language for that job would be one that is spoken by the majority, I have no idea what that is but whatever it is it needs to be implemented

As to the rest of your points, these are your own insecurities I have no desire to indulge in a pointless debate. Urdu isn't out to get pashto nor are those who speak the language

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Afghanistan already has two official languages, and most can speak either one of the two. That isn't the reason why Afghan natl army is going through problems, it is something entirely different.

[Dinosaur Khan]

I have no problems with Urdu per se, but it enrages me how local languages have been disregarded in Pak. On top of which Urdu speakers mock Pashtoons who might mix up their Urdu when conversing.

Pashtoons = Pashto. And Pashtoons have the right to preserve their language. Urdu should be strictly additional and not used as a political tool.

I agree with this.

[tor_khan]

why would I suggest that ? And what made u think I would sugget a completely foreign language to be used as a standard in Afghanistan. The point I made was that Afghans need a common language and the best candidate language for that job would be one that is spoken by the majority, I have no idea what that is but whatever it is it needs to be implemented

As to the rest of your points, these are your own insecurities I have no desire to indulge in a pointless debate. Urdu isn't out to get pashto nor are those who speak the language

I'm trying to make sense of the logic that you are applying to the first part here.

If Urdu - agreed - is "foreign" in Afghanistan, what makes it "local" just a few miles to the east in the areas occupied by fellow Pashtoons?

Like I say, I have no problems with Urdu as a language per se; I just dislike the way local languages haven't been supported and or been allowed to develop because of Urdu promotion. In the long run, it harms local languages.

You talk about insecurity - less so, but more of an observation as to how non Urdu speakers are treated. In fact, I was referring to an earlier posting whereby you suggesed that Urdu was a unifier. I just happen to point out that it isn't. Consider which parts of the country have routinely promoted Urdu - the mohajirs because it would have been too much effort to learn anything else and Muslim Panjabees because they wasted no time in dropping Panjabee as they urbanised. Traditional Panjabee is written in Gurmukhi but because Pakistan has an India hang-up, that would make written Panjabee too close to the script of the Hindus and Sikhs. Solution? Adopt Urdu and hide behind it.

That is the issue here. It's got nothing to do with unity.

[Talal]

Afghanistan already has two official languages, and most can speak either one of the two. That isn't the reason why Afghan natl army is going through problems, it is something entirely different.

skip to 2:20 something

[Talal]

I'm trying to make sense of the logic that you are applying to the first part here.

If Urdu - agreed - is "foreign" in Afghanistan, what makes it "local" just a few miles to the east in the areas occupied by fellow Pashtoons?

Like I say, I have no problems with Urdu as a language per se; I just dislike the way local languages haven't been supported and or been allowed to develop because of Urdu promotion. In the long run, it harms local languages.

You talk about insecurity - less so, but more of an observation as to how non Urdu speakers are treated. In fact, I was referring to an earlier posting whereby you suggesed that Urdu was a unifier. I just happen to point out that it isn't. Consider which parts of the country have routinely promoted Urdu - the mohajirs because it would have been too much effort to learn anything else and Muslim Panjabees because they wasted no time in dropping Panjabee as they urbanised. Traditional Panjabee is written in Gurmukhi but because Pakistan has an India hang-up, that would make written Panjabee too close to the script of the Hindus and Sikhs. Solution? Adopt Urdu and hide behind it.

That is the issue here. It's got nothing to do with unity.

the logic is simple, when your cross the border your in Pakistan it doesnt matter who you meet on this side be it pashtuns punjabis they are pakistanis and to them applies the law of Pakistan so thats why urdu becomes foreign when talking about Afghanistan.

"A nation is a grouping of people who share real or imagined common history, culture, language or ethnic origin, often possessing or seeking its own government." ~ Oxford

The logic is simple if your talking to four people sitting in a room, one of them is pashtun, other one punjabi, a baloch and someone from sindh you cannot expect them to talk to eachother or have them understand what your saying if they all speak they're own languages only. This is where urdu comes, apparently it might just seem like a means of communication but its value is far greater than that. People dont feel alienated from eachother, they can understand each other's cultures by using the common language as a medium which otherwise would have been impossible. That is why urdu is "compulsory".

Pakistan didn't introduce the persian style in punjabi, it was done long before that. As muslims, we felt more aligned to the persian and arabic style because that is the language quran is written in so naturally the punjabi you see in pakistan is in persian style. Sindhis balochis they speak just as much as urdu as anyone else does, the pronounciation deviates a little bit from region to region but over all composition and voacbulary is the same.

[tor_khan]

I agree with this.

Ow kana. Urdu teek da - yowa jaba da.

Sa plaar kho na de.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

The oxford dictionary defn is exactly why pashtuns are a nation. The four groups within Pakistan do not have a common history let alone ethnic origin or language. Even when dealing with the british, we have a different history. For us it is the 3 anglo-afghan wars, dargai heights, ajab khan afridi, umrah khan (afghan napoelean), etc. Your logic does not apply or add up. Nice try though.

[Talal]

The oxford dictionary defn is exactly why pashtuns are a nation. The four groups within Pakistan do not have a common history let alone ethnic origin or language. Even when dealing with the british, we have a different history. For us it is the 3 anglo-afghan wars, dargai heights, ajab khan afridi, umrah khan (afghan napoelean), etc. Your logic does not apply or add up. Nice try though.

The definition outlines exactly " why " we need a common language, we are a nation in order for us to function as one we NEED a common language, and only a common language can reduce the cultural or ethnic divide there is..that is why urdu is taught in instituions across pakistan, its simple logic not rocket science then again common sense is a rarity in your arguments