What do Pakistani Pashtuns mean when they say Lar aw bar yaw Pakhtun

[pashtun_rise]

Barakzai...you tell me what you wish for now? Pak pashtuns would never go to any country thats under attack these days...the education and other facilities are not much in afghanistan than in pak...despite the fact that pak is a fail state (which people usually claim)...its far more better for them.People are clever enough not to kick the opportunities in pak.History can cover pages and debates tons of times...but it cant win the hearts of pak pashtuns who are looking for new ways of life.They are westernized...and urbanized.

[faye]

so how am i stopping you from anything?
you are behaving in an odd, erratic, over defensive manner. doesn't half the forum discount you, anyway?

so what's with the bitch out? you hormonal or what.
male menopasue perhaps.
old people promoting hate and racism, proves they have failed in life.

[Toramana]

I have my familial relations with many nations....many tribes...many ethnics.So what? And i do visit each and every place i wish any time.But i wont let you decide for me where to go and where not to.

Now you are having sympathy for other ethnics too? Or just blowing the trumpet out of frustration? You seem someone who wish to divide pak into many nations....atleast i am getting this feeling.I ve already told you comments like this would leave you nowhere but day dreaming.My advise would be to stay away from such ideas like pak being divided into many nations...who knows there are ISI agents here . Better watch your back man.

If you love afghanistan...stay in afghanistan and help them rebuild the country....if afghanistan is established and prosperous enough ....i promise you many pak pashtuns will come ...and take afghan identity.

By the same rule, you cannot decide for others. Not all Pashtuns are married into other ethnic groups (in fact very few eg., 0.5% of the total) The general principle of history is, while geographical and political entities are formed and cease to exist, nations and ethnic groups continue to exist and evolve lasting longer.

[pashtun_rise]

Yes, why not --- Going by Pashtun rules, as long as you maintain your impartiality and don't take sides in Pashtuns internal feuds, you are immune to "attacks". But if you violate that rule you are counted as a foe.

Pashtun's rights to stay united and to self-rule is very sacred and above my own interests and ego---So you can go ahead and call me whatever you want---I am satisfied with what I am and am in no need of acknowledgement from others.

Dont you think you are kinda bullying her? And what pashtuns unity? Why do you hide things from afghans? I think afghans have the right to know the reality.

[pashtun_rise]

By the same rule, you cannot decide for others. Not all Pashtuns are married into other ethnic groups (in fact very few eg., 0.5% of the total) The general principle of history is, while geographical and political entities are formed and cease to exist, nations and ethnic groups continue to exist and evolve lasting longer.

True...then let afghanis go to pak and see the reaction of pak pashtuns once they claim for loy pashtunistan's theory.You yourself know this in your heart what surprise they ll face.Dont try to fuel the fire.

[pashtun_rise]

so how am i stopping you from anything?
you are behaving in an odd, erratic, over defensive manner. doesn't half the forum discount you, anyway?

so what's with the bitch out? you hormonal or what.
male menopasue perhaps.
old people promoting hate and racism, proves they have failed in life.

Hormonal thing...i suppose.

[Toramana]

so how am i stopping you from anything?
you are behaving in an odd, erratic, over defensive manner. doesn't half the forum discount you, anyway?

so what's with the bitch out? you hormonal or what.
male menopasue perhaps.
old people promoting hate and racism, proves they have failed in life.

Are you crazy sort of? Why this egoism ---you get angry when you are criticized?

Had you balanced your comment of Paki Pashtuns being targeted with something aimed at reconciliation, you would have sounded genuine. But what you said was mere to provoke kind of.

[pashtun_rise]

Toramana people are no kids to be provoked.You are like our brother...just like any other pashtun.But the truth is that no one wants to be in afghanistan except india...they love afghans alot.I ve seen their love...their passion for progress of afghanistan.That I dont even deny.Leave paki pashtuns man...they are already in crisis and are dealing lot of problems...they are looking for better opportunities...just as afghans are looking so.So do they.

[Toramana]

Dont you think you are kinda bullying her? And what pashtuns unity? Why do you hide things from afghans? I think afghans have the right to know the reality.

I am not bullying her. The lady is a bit un-courteous----have been nice to her for a long long long time------

Rest, you may be living in the present "totally/entirely" and consider real and immortal what you see and feel (being the more sensual and instincts driven instead of consciousness driven) ---But others like me and many more have a transcendent sense of reality in the present as well as the past and the future---For them, history is a continuum and infinite.

By the way, all fragmented and divided nations have been through such phases. Italy, Germany, and dozens of other nations around the world are an examples of initial lack of consensus over unification . When Italy was divided in many small states and the push came for unification, there was resistance to it far more intense (than what you see in Pashtuns) from those with entrenched interests in the status-quo. And masses also were initially resistant due to the propaganda of the rulers of various states. What do you think if state-driven propaganda in the name of history in Paki schools and through media loses its grip, can Pak survive in the present shape?

If being united is politically and economically the right thing, why stay disunited ---not to mention the natural right to be united and self-governed. Is not it a principled thing?

Besides, what the heck merger on arbitrary grounds instead of natural is going to achieve? Is it going to earn us heavens?

[faye]

because i pointed out some bias against the pakistani pashtuns?
how is that discourteous and how does that interfere in your hate agenda. toramana?

[pashtun_rise]

I am not bullying her. The lady is a bit un-courteous----have been nice to her for a long long long time------

Rest, you may be living in the present totally and consider real and immortal what you see and feel (being the more sensual and instincts driven) ---But others like me and many more have a transcendent sense of reality in past-present-and future---For them history is a continuum.

By the way, all fragmented and divided nations have been through such phases. Italy, Germany, and dozens of other nations around the world are an examples. When Italy was divided in many small states and the push came for unification, there was resistance to it far more intense than what you see in Pashtuns from those with entrenched interests in the status-quo. And masses also were initially resistant due to the propaganda of the various rulers.

If being united is politically and economically the right thing, why stay disunited ---not to mention the natural right to be united and to be self-governed. Is not it a principled thing?

Besides, what the heck merger on arbitrary grounds instead of natural is going to achieve? Is it going to earn us heaven?

No you are wrong and day dreaming...for pak's stability pashtuns too will take part...and are taking part.One such example is imran khan.You can vote for him in pak...after all he is pashtun.

Pak army and ISI have pashtuns...punjab and sindh carries pashtuns among them...even kashmir.Its like you are declaring war against pak solely on your beliefs.The so called ANP is a corrupt party.Every lar pashtun knows that too...if you are among ANP i doubt your sincerity.Haider hoti has a notorious repo....n so are his puppets.

Besides...which political and economical stabilty you are talking about? First build afghan state with justice...bringforth sincere pashtuns in govt...not puppet karzai....give minorities the full justice...no racism.Then pashtuns of KP etc ll see.Another reason lar pashtuns would not like to join is that pak army and ISI (who have pashtuns too)...are not in good terms with indian govt.While afghanis are.So better stay with one side.I ve seen examples of people like you...who are riding 2 boats with their feet on both sides...and have drowned ultimately.

[Toramana]

No you are wrong and day dreaming...for pak's stability pashtuns too will take part...and are taking part. One such example is imran khan.You can vote for him in pak...after all he is pashtun.

Probably. But it is a nice and practical dream with all the solid grounds of realization instead of the arbitrary grounds on which Pakistan is based. And may be I am day-dreaming but not to the extent that some Pakistani lunatics do by assigning Pakistan the immortality and the eternity one so frequently hears of and considering it to be something holy and divinely---kind of holy Roman Empire to exist forever.



The fact is, it is nothing more than an utterly-failed experiences that has impacted extremely negatively/adversely many inside Pakistan (all except Punjabis) as well as the region.

Pak army and ISI have pashtuns...punjab and sindh carries pashtuns among them...even kashmir.Its like you are declaring war against pak solely on your beliefs.The so called ANP is a corrupt party.Every lar pashtun knows that too...if you are among ANP i doubt your sincerity.Haider hoti has a notorious repo....n so are his puppets.

And so had the British Indian Army which had more Indians than British (with status of mercenaries as some Pathans in Paki Army are). If that is sufficient reason for survival of Pakistan, then why partition British India. Similarly, there are(and were) more Muslims in India---What is then the justification for Pakistan? Existence of diaspora doesn't main the mainland community doesn't have the right or the reason for self-determination.

Besides...which political and economical stabilty you are talking about? First build afghan state with justice...bringforth sincere pashtuns in govt...not puppet karzai....give minorities the full justice...no racism.Then pashtuns of KP etc ll see.Another reason lar pashtuns would not like to join is that pak army and ISI (who have pashtuns too)...are not in good terms with indian govt.While afghanis are.So better stay with one side.I ve seen examples of people like you...who are riding 2 boats with their feet on both sides...and have drowned ultimately.

See above. Besides, Pakistan is far from being a just state....rather is at the abyss of injustice ---ask some Baluchi, please. Jobs in army or ISI doesn't mean the oppressed community stop fighting for self-determination, which are complicated phenomena and involves more complex and broader issues pertaining to the well-being of whole community. Look at Cubic in Canada.

But who are you? I assume you are from Bangla Desh?

[Toramana]

because i pointed out some bias against the pakistani pashtuns?
how is that discourteous and how does that interfere in your hate agenda. toramana?

Hay Maam, what is your problems? Why you are hell-bent shoving your moronic notion of humanism down our throat with utter disregard for people right and aspiration to preserve their culture and win their freedom?

You don't know the history and background of all the issues right---? ---yet are trying to hound all of us with that blind humanism of yours (i am sure you yourself cannot apply the Utopian humanism in your own environment--some aboriginals may be rotten-ing in your neighbourhood ).

By the way, when is China becoming Christian?

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

Faye,

Most sane Pashtuns on this forum don't take Toramakha seriously.

They say the same stuff to him that he is now repeating to you, so it is clear that this new found anti-Australian sentiment of his is because of the resulting frustration.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Hay Maam, what is your problems? Why you are hell-bent shoving your moronic notion of humanism down our throat with utter disregard for people right and aspiration to preserve their culture and win their freedom?

You don't know the history and background of all the issues right---? ---yet are trying to hound all of us with that blind humanism of yours (i am sure you yourself cannot apply the Utopian humanism in your own environment--some aboriginals may be rotten-ing in your neighbourhood ).

By the way, when is China becoming Christian?

One African American friend of mine from engineering school, a very nice fellow who had pulled himself out of poverty and was rather quiet once talked to me about this mentality.

I said John, why is it that MLK is given such preeminence and even a holiday, but Malcolm X was securing medical treatment and rights with a wave of his hand (the famous phrase "Thats too much power for one man to handle" was said about him in NYC when he had his group March on a police station to secure treatment for an abused person)? I said, it appears that he is even written out of the history books, I think Spike Lee is correct about this when he says this.

His response was simple: They just want their docile nig-gers

This is generally the theme in the West; all Eastern and original ethnic heroes must be nonviolent and saintly without any essence of humanity, but all revered Western leaders can be praised for their military and political savvy (e.g. Churchill).