What do Pakistani Pashtuns mean when they say Lar aw bar yaw Pakhtun

[pashtun_rise]

The problem isn't you love innocent pakistanis or innocent arabs, The problem is you hate innocent Indians JUST because they're not like you.

As for the Imam Mehdi debate, the Pakistani ISI has infiltrated into the religious indoctrination of militants, it was only in recent times did this whole Propaganda of claiming Pashtun's are "Mahdi's Army" started to arise, the ISI started promoting this idea to lure more Pashtuns into their agenda, because they started claiming that the Taliban are Mahdi's Army. The Pashtun psychology is very egotistical, and Pakistan understand's this, They realize Pashtuns have this incessant cultural drive to want to believe that Pashtuns in particular have some higher divine destiny especially for them like they were apart of the chosen people, This is the same basis of how the Bani Isra'il myth became started, but we now know through scientific evidence is false.


The Real Mahdi's army already happened during the time of the 'Abbassiyah, when different political movements started to emerge, they needed religious doctrines to justify it. That is why you find most of the things about Mahdi are from weaker collections of Ahadth.

Why would i hate innocent indians? And what reward would i get if i do so? If you think i am some ISI indoctrinated element...then where is my jehad theory? Where is it that i said i want to make pashtuns to be weaponised? On the contrary i am telling them to strengthen their faith only...becoz only with strong faith...one ll be able to differentiate the afflictions of dajjal...and will have the opportunity to be in mehdi's and jesus pbuh 's army.Such a silly comment you sometime make that i wonder....you have many faces.

Have i not told you b4 that mehdi ll be chosen by Allah not by some abbasyds? You havent given me proofs either? Now i am remembering...where is the proof man? Where are the associated signs? You are such a lier...better take sprite to digest some of your lies...Now i wont debate with you further...i am wasting time my energy with you and you are enjoying...mr wahhabi..

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Have i not told you b4 that mehdi ll be chosen by Allah not by some abbasyds? You havent given me proofs either? Now i am remembering...where is the proof man? Where are the associated signs? You are such a lier...better take sprite to digest some of your lies...Now i wont debate with you further...i am wasting time my energy with you and you are enjoying...mr wahhabi..

This is what Naive people say .....but people who study history knows that historically people used "God" to motivate others, they give things a supernatural twist and explanation as a way to captivate and lure people into following and complying to their movement. You can see this throughout history

in Shi'a doctrine; they made the concept of "Walayah" as a way to justify Shi'atu 'Ali

- In Baha'i beliefs they started saying that Baha'ullah and Babi were chosen by God

- Qadiyani also started claiming they're chosen by God.

- Even Muhammad Ibn Wahhab said he had a "dream from the Prophet" and stuff like that.

This technique is used to manipulate and lure people into certain political agendas.


Everyone here knows I am not Wahhabi, I have very open minded outlook on Islam, Wahhabis are very closed minded, ....and you are also closed minded. Hmmm maybe I should call you Ms. Wahhabi now?


sorry ma'am, your hallucinations are not real

[pashtun_rise]

This is what Naive people say .....but people who study history knows that historically people used "God" to motivate others, they give things a supernatural twist and explanation as a way to captivate and lure people into following and complying to their movement. You can see this throughout history

in Shi'a doctrine; they made the concept of "Walayah" as a way to justify Shi'atu 'Ali

- In Baha'i beliefs they started saying that Baha'ullah and Babi were chosen by God

- Qadiyani also started claiming they're chosen by God.

- Even Muhammad Ibn Wahhab said he had a "dream from the Prophet" and stuff like that.

This technique is used to manipulate and lure people into certain political agendas.


Everyone here knows I am not Wahhabi, I have very open minded outlook on Islam, Wahhabis are very closed minded, ....and you are also closed minded. Hmmm maybe I should call you Ms. Wahhabi now?


sorry ma'am, your hallucinations are not real

Better take antipsychotics for you are having better hallucinations than me.

There is no technique...just simple words of mohammad pbuh and we are following him...U r too much manipulative...i am quite clear in my thinkings.


Everytime...Allah has chosen a certain nation e.g bani israel....due to their sacrifices...and when they get astray...Allah raised arabs...those with greater taqwa....then turks (ottomon's empire)...then they were overpowered by romans ...as they got astray from their true islamic practicing...Allah knows HIS ways better..not us.Now you are denying this too? R you denying quranic verses too where bani israel as chosen race is mentioned? Man u really need to take sprite....


Mohammad ibn e wahhab was the founder of wahhabism from najd...the so called jehadi theory was promoted by his followers...even upto this day...many are misguided...and hellfire is awaiting them...because they are harming no one but innocents.

Dont discuss qadyiani sect...out of question.Shiites...leave them alone.The rest religions i am not concerned with...you are the main obstacle...i was thinking only a wahhabi would stand against such leaked truth of islamic ahadeeths...but here i am seeing you....

Dont try to attack me personally while you can beat me with logics...

[haviZsultan]

Pakistan has not taken our lands...but we are here with our lands....that you yourself are saying.The problem is with afghans who are shaking hands with indian govt....U think its better for pashtuns to wlecome them? Its the govts of both pak and afghanistan you can blame...but not people.U must know that there are whole settled villages of pashtuns in punjab and sindh....They didnt claimed of those lands either...those lands were given by british govt.So who ll you guys hate by hating punjab or sindh lands? In karachi people are learning pashto out of love for pashtuns and their culture...with exclusion of hizb_u_shaitan (MQM...who are mafia dealers...they are killings simple sindhis and punjabis too...their religion is money not ethnicity).

The whole pak is ours...and of other ethnics. Pashtuns are everywhere....lets not to forget the atrocities done by ayub khan,yahya khan,ghula ishaq khan etc..who were pashtuns but did nothing for pashtuns instead created pashtun punjabi conflicts to regain more and more power....pashtuns prospered at bhotto's time...who was not pashtun.He gave opportunities to them (exclude the present stupid PPP).Brother...dont hate general pakis...

Pakistan is our country and we are its sons. Even if there was bias it doesn't mean we forget that that this is our land. Pashtuns sacrificed a lot for Pakistan and it would be a crime to step on their graves. Lalak Jan, Karnal Sher Khan. Abdur Rab Nishtar played a part in the countries freedom.

Pashtuns have earned their position in Pakistani society and do not want to lose it in the name of unity with the Afghan or bar Pasthun. The Afghan has abandoned us.

And in this age Pashtun is not equal to Afghan. If Afghans really mean only Pashtun can be Afghan they should kick the Tajik Hazara and Uzbek out otherwise it just means they want the Pakistani Pashtun to commit suicide and fight against his other brother races while Afghans sit in the corner and clap... just like they did in the past when we were fighting for our freedom from the British after we were passed into their hands by their king.

[JattApache]

Pakistan is our country and we are its sons. Even if there was bias it doesn't mean we forget that that this is our land. Pashtuns sacrificed a lot for Pakistan and it would be a crime to step on their graves. Lalak Jan, Karnal Sher Khan. Abdur Rab Nishtar played a part in the countries freedom.

Pashtuns have earned their position in Pakistani society and do not want to lose it in the name of unity with the Afghan or bar Pasthun. The Afghan has abandoned us.

And in this age Pashtun is not equal to Afghan. If Afghans really mean only Pashtun can be Afghan they should kick the Tajik Hazara and Uzbek out otherwise it just means they want the Pakistani Pashtun to com
mit suicide and fight against his other brother races while Afghans sit in the corner and clap... just like they did in the past when we were fighting for our freedom from the British after we were passed into their hands by their king.

Are you really pashtun ? Why you don't speak pashto ?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Better take antipsychotics for you are having better hallucinations than me.

There is no technique...just simple words of mohammad pbuh and we are following him...U r too much manipulative...i am quite clear in my thinkings.


Everytime...Allah has chosen a certain nation e.g bani israel....due to their sacrifices...and when they get astray...Allah raised arabs...those with greater taqwa....then turks (ottomon's empire)...then they were overpowered by romans ...as they got astray from their true islamic practicing...Allah knows HIS ways better..not us.Now you are denying this too? R you denying quranic verses too where bani israel as chosen race is mentioned? Man u really need to take sprite....


Mohammad ibn e wahhab was the founder of wahhabism from najd...the so called jehadi theory was promoted by his followers...even upto this day...many are misguided...and hellfire is awaiting them...because they are harming no one but innocents.

Dont discuss qadyiani sect...out of question.Shiites...leave them alone.The rest religions i am not concerned with...you are the main obstacle...i was thinking only a wahhabi would stand against such leaked truth of islamic ahadeeths...but here i am seeing you....

Dont try to attack me personally while you can beat me with logics...

No that is just what certain propagandists want you to think they are Muhammad's words; In The History of Hadith , there are many forgeries and weak ahadith.

Look at the link you sent me yesterday, how many of those ahadth were from Jam'ia Al-Sagheer? That is not an official collection, it is not from Sahih Sitta'. You are blinded by your emotions, not guided by logic.

I have no problem with Qadiyani, Shi'a or anything else. Only problem I have is with extremism. The fact is that in history people often made up their own hadith, then claimed Muhammad(saw) said it and then used these to justify political movements. That's where the ahadith of the Mahdi comes from. They speak in very general terms and mention things which are very ordinary or typical events, for example your remark about "landslides" , well Landslides happen all the time because Arabian Peninsula is on Geoological PLate, which moves on the magma. Who knows , maybe a landslide happened during that time when KHalifa Al Mahdi of the 'Abbasisiyah came to power.

Whether Bani Isra'il is a chosen race or not is not my concern; What I am saying is that Pashtuns are not Bani Isra'il this is VERIFIED by Science, they tested the Genes of the Jews and Tested Genes of Pashtuns and they show it is not from the same Lineage at all. The claim that Pashtuns are Bani Isra'il was politically motivated to galvanize the Pashtuns against the other regional entities who were claiming their nobility based on their ancestry.


There's a logical answer for ll of your "prophecies"; honestly if you went to a Psychiatrist and told him you have all these Prophecies .....and I went with you saying this is all just historical propaganda tools who do you think they'd put on Anti-Psychotics? LOL ::

[pashtun_rise]

Pakistan is our country and we are its sons. Even if there was bias it doesn't mean we forget that that this is our land. Pashtuns sacrificed a lot for Pakistan and it would be a crime to step on their graves. Lalak Jan, Karnal Sher Khan. Abdur Rab Nishtar played a part in the countries freedom.

Pashtuns have earned their position in Pakistani society and do not want to lose it in the name of unity with the Afghan or bar Pasthun. The Afghan has abandoned us.

And in this age Pashtun is not equal to Afghan. If Afghans really mean only Pashtun can be Afghan they should kick the Tajik Hazara and Uzbek out otherwise it just means they want the Pakistani Pashtun to commit suicide and fight against his other brother races while Afghans sit in the corner and clap... just like they did in the past when we were fighting for our freedom from the British after we were passed into their hands by their king.

Well...sir the thing is that...in todays world...its useless to debate much..u see NATO and coalition forces are everywhere...What boundary what ethnicity ? The ellites are gaining power ...and here we are fighting among ourselves....we pashtuns are still with paki brothers and sisters...as i said...pashtuns are not ahsan_faramosh...we know how to thank ....in the time of crisis ...it would be a shame to leave our brothers in faith...while in fair weather we enjoyed much togather....and so do we stand for our bar pashtuns too...i wish there could be peace between the two...not someone interfering since...we share many things togather...inshAllah i ll post some material where you ll know how important many prophecies of mohammad pbuh are...and how we are running out of time...lets not discuss this.If people attack you personally...ignore...

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Are you really pashtun ? Why you don't speak pashto ?

He's not; Havi has only very recently adopted the position of speaking from a Pashtun narrative as a desperate way of giving credibility to his Agenda of Promoting Pakistani nationalism.


And that just makes me really dislike Pakistan more than I did before.

[pashtun_rise]

No that is just what certain propagandists want you to think they are Muhammad's words; In The History of Hadith , there are many forgeries and weak ahadith.

Look at the link you sent me yesterday, how many of those ahadth were from Jam'ia Al-Sagheer? That is not an official collection, it is not from Sahih Sitta'. You are blinded by your emotions, not guided by logic.

I have no problem with Qadiyani, Shi'a or anything else. Only problem I have is with extremism. The fact is that in history people often made up their own hadith, then claimed Muhammad(saw) said it and then used these to justify political movements. That's where the ahadith of the Mahdi comes from. They speak in very general terms and mention things which are very ordinary or typical events, for example your remark about "landslides" , well Landslides happen all the time because Arabian Peninsula is on Geoological PLate, which moves on the magma. Who knows , maybe a landslide happened during that time when KHalifa Al Mahdi of the 'Abbasisiyah came to power.

Whether Bani Isra'il is a chosen race or not is not my concern; What I am saying is that Pashtuns are not Bani Isra'il this is VERIFIED by Science, they tested the Genes of the Jews and Tested Genes of Pashtuns and they show it is not from the same Lineage at all. The claim that Pashtuns are Bani Isra'il was politically motivated to galvanize the Pashtuns against the other regional entities who were claiming their nobility based on their ancestry.


There's a logical answer for ll of your "prophecies"; honestly if you went to a Psychiatrist and told him you have all these Prophecies .....and I went with you saying this is all just historical propaganda tools who do you think they'd put on Anti-Psychotics? LOL ::

You are a constant nuisance...believe me...

Bani israel is rejected by you..okay...you cant reject the ahadeeths mutawatir i sent in the link..can you? Ahadeeths regarding prophecies....dont need tafseers much...since they are related to future..But about past you can...so now who is trying to deliberately twist ahadeeths as you are mentioning? Those hadeeths have not yet come out true i.e for abassyds...neither have i heard any fatwa etc....only you are claiming...

Now regarding its connection with recent events...can you deny a single event thats not in accordance with hadeeths? Everything happened as said so....now you ll defy qiyamah too since its also mentioned in hadeeths and quran? N the related events includes mehdi...at END TIMES not in middle times...as you are claiming....atleast ask a scholar man...

The worst logic you have given me about psychiatry...still good luck!

[RevolutionThroughReason]

You are a constant nuisance...believe me...

Bani israel is rejected by you..okay...you cant reject the ahadeeths mutawatir i sent in the link..can you? Ahadeeths regarding prophecies....dont need tafseers much...since they are related to future..But about past you can...so now who is trying to deliberately twist ahadeeths as you are mentioning? Those hadeeths have not yet come out true i.e for abassyds...neither have i heard any fatwa etc....only you are claiming...

Now regarding its connection with recent events...can you deny a single event thats not in accordance with hadeeths? Everything happened as said so....now you ll defy qiyamah too since its also mentioned in hadeeths and quran? N the related events includes mehdi...at END TIMES not in middle times...as you are claiming....atleast ask a scholar man...

The worst logic you have given me about psychiatry...still good luck!

Go look at some of the sources in the link you sent me , look at how many are from Jami'a Al Sagheer.


You live in denial. and are being manipulated by the Mullahs; and my psychiatry remark was great logic; psychiatrists generally diagnose people who think they know prophecies as schizophrenics. LOL

[haviZsultan]

Seriously, you need to stop trumpeting this crap.
Looking over your past posts, it seems to be a common theme.

Abdur Rahman Khan was as much your king as he was ours.
Many of the leaders of the resistance against the British were murdered by him (i.e. Mad Jan Khan). He did not have popular support among the Afghan tribes who had so vehemently opposed the British forces. As a result, to consolidate power, he had to kill those tribal leaders, displace unruly tribes and promote the traitors. In that regard, he was a very effective ruler considering what he had to work with (two super powers at the borders), and the results of that rule can be seen in the consolidation of modern Afghanistan including the conquering of Hazarajat, Herat, Kafiristan etc.

By selling all of your southern regions? So what if he conquered these regions. Pashtuns were forever divided due to this action.

It is impossible for the Afghans to understand that the Pakistanization of lar Pashtuns actually began here. In 1893 the lands were not just divided but the paths of the two Pashtun groups diverged. The Afghans never did or could not do much for the lar Pashtuns while these Pashtuns went through a differing experience altogether.

They went through battles to fight against the British and defeat them, their regions under their laws and rules... when the Muslim League rose they supported them as liberators. Our history from 1893 is different, we were for ever divided.

What this means is that it was not the Lar Pashtuns who 'sold the bar Pashtuns'. It was Abdur Rahman Khan & his administration. You make the Lar Pashtuns sound like cowards with your tone as part of your agenda to establish this divide among the Pashtuns on either side of the border.

It was not the will of the lar Pashtuns to sell the land of the bar Pashtuns to the British. Get that into your head. There was no elected government that ruled with the peoples' mandate. So stop insulting my ancestors by claiming that they sold thier brothers "just to save their own skin".

I was claiming the other way around... Lar Pashtuns are the bravest of the Pashtuns. I think you are getting confused.

Perhaps it was not the will of ordinary bar Pashtuns but why they didn't properly oppose Abdur Rahman Khan and rebel against him? A few rebellions don't matter. It was the division of Pashtuns into two camps forever... why did they not stand against him when it was the time only to come back many years later when the lar Pashtuns are much richer and stronger?

Many lar Pashtuns have stories of going to bar Pashtuns asking for help and being turned away. They had no weapons, no supplies no nothing to fight the British but Afghanistan did little.

You said "Anyone who reads history..." when it is evident that you have not done so. Let me school you with the knowledge I have of my own peoples.

I come from the Wardag tribe. It is located in Central Afghanistan. It is a part of the Karlanri federation. Much of Sher Ali's army consisted of Wardags. Wardags spearheaded many of the operations against the British including the seige of Kabul and were a strong presence in most of the battles including Maiwand. Wardags are Lar Pashtuns. They made many sacrafices against the British and supported kings like Ayub Khan who fought against the invaders. Hence, when the British installed a loyal puppet in order to leave the Afghan quagmire, there was no love lost between your average Wardag and the aforementioned puppet. Especially when the Wardag tribal chiefs (who had popular support among Pashtuns...even the Bar Pashtuns....i.e. Ghazi Shaheed General Mohammad Jan Khan Wardag who was the first person in history to be elected as general or 'ghatmushr' by the rank & file of the army) who were instrumental in the defence against the British were assassinated by him. When the treaty to officially partition Afghanistan was signed, the Wardags did not support it. Average Wardags, just like other average Lar Pukhtuns & Bar Pukhtuns were not consulted.

My point remains the same. Whatever happened happened because of your leaders decision. It is simply wrong for the Afghans to come back years later and say Pakhtunkhwa belongs to them. Maybe it wasn't the fault of

Abdur Rahmand Khan was not called the 'Iron Amir' for nothing. He quelled the rebellions throughout the country and effectively silenced the opposition (most of whom were involved in the fight against the British) while consolidating his own rule.

Bar Pashtuns are not cattle to be bought and sold. They are a proud warrior peoples, just like their Lar counterparts. You, in your posts, make them seem vulnerable and helpess when infact they were in the same position (in terms of their opposition to the treaties and the new ruler) as their Lar brothers.

Well the opposition wasn't enough. No effort was made to save the land from going to the British.

I am not even a nationalist - I couldn't care less whether you love pakistan or hate it. That's your business and it does not concern me at all. What does concern me is when you (who no-one can be sure is even a Pashtun) would dare to insult my ancestors as being cowards 'selling Bar Pashtuns just to save their own skin' and calling them the 'real slaves of the British' when they fought so strongly against the British and opposed Abdur Rahman Khan.

The bar Pashtuns have called the lar Pashtuns so for years haven't they. Now it's changed from British slaves to Urdu slaves who say jee and jee haan. But when someone calls them that they instantly feel their honour is hurt. Ask the Pakistani Pashtun how he feels.

You intellectual dishonesty is undignified & unbecoming.

I foresaw this stage would eventually come in my debates with the Afghans who were frustrated with my views.

A person is dishonest usually when he lies or is untruthful. I have never lied. Just withheld information and judging from the atmosphere I believe I have rightly done so.

I have withheld the truth. Of this I am actually guilty and I have no qualms admitting it.

Plus anyone can judge that I am only someone who is dedicated to Pashtuns especially if I have explored Pashtun culture and history. Most Pakistanis today don't have any knowledge of history other than Allama Iqbal's and Jinnah's and know no culture other than the Urdu one.

So instead of trying to discredit me please try something else my Afghan friends.

It would be extremely ignorant of you to hate 'afghanis' because your leaders did zulm on your people. Yes, I said "your leaders" because they were your leaders. Just as they were ours. It was not ordinary Lar Pashtuns who oppressed your people. They fought against the invaders just as hard, if not moreso as the Bar Pashtuns and they did not consent to the division of their land and their seperation from their brothers.

Its actually the other way around. I was advocating the Bar Pashtuns were oppressing the lar Pashtuns.

And initially it was as you said. Lar Pashtuns fought hard against the British not ready to accept the division but Afghans made no real effort to help the lar Pashtuns strengthening the divide.

Our paths have diverged... we are by all means now Pakistani Pashtuns yet the Pakistani Pashtun is willing to work with the Afghan Pashtun to strengthen culture and language and work with him.

After all that happened he just doesn't want Afghans trying to bring things back to how they were before 1893.

[pashtun_rise]

Go look at some of the sources in the link you sent me , look at how many are from Jami'a Al Sagheer.


You live in denial. and are being manipulated by the Mullahs; and my psychiatry remark was great logic; psychiatrists generally diagnose people who think they know prophecies as schizophrenics. LOL

U live in denial of hadeeths and quranic verses....The hadeeths are not from some institute but are from ibne khateer..for God sake dont relate hadeeths to some institute....I myself belong to mullah groups...and my parents grandparents have gone as far as golf countries to search the true tafseers for centuries...neither had they taken part in any cruelty against innocents nor taken side of talibs...

Coming to your point...can you please give me a reference of your so called abassyd theory of being almehdi? You still havent provided me with proof? N i ll ask each and every detail with questions....i ll look into it deep man...dont take hadeeths lightly....Fear Allah...you in your heart know it...

[Admin Khan]

Also, it's lar aw bar yaw Afghan. Even though it means the same thing, in practice no one says Pakhtun including ANP. Just another attempt at intellectual dishonesty, nothing new.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

U live in denial of hadeeths and quranic verses....The hadeeths are not from some institute but are from ibne khateer..for God sake dont relate hadeeths to some institute....I myself belong to mullah groups...and my parents grandparents have gone as far as golf countries to search the true tafseers for centuries...neither had they taken part in any cruelty against innocents nor taken side of talibs...

Coming to your point...can you please give me a reference of your so called abassyd theory of being almehdi? You still havent provided me with proof? N i ll ask each and every detail with questions....i ll look into it deep man...dont take hadeeths lightly....Fear Allah...you in your heart know it...

The Qur'an's verses say nothing about Al-Mahdi; this is all just Tafsir from people who came much later to justify Mahdi Movement of the 'Abbasiyah' against the Ummayads.


The ahadiths you mention are generally from Non-Canonized/weak collections and come from weak narrations, not Mutawatir. Most of the ahadith in your link yesterday are not from sahih sitta.

The proof is simply logic; analysis, you have to go study the origins of these hadith, when did they start appearing in the Muslim texts and so on. Then you will see that oh these hadths cannot be about a future time but about a time in the past.

good luck.

[Manzareh]

These Afghans will never accept you.

We are **** for them... southern **** who they consider dal-khors, sons of the british, defenders of Punjab or Pangchuks (whatever that is). I have been hearing these comments non-stop from these people.

Anyone who reads history can know how unfair it is for Afghans to come back after under Abdur Rehman Khan they sold the lar Pashtuns to the British. And why did they do it... only to save themselves from being conquered by the British. Ask them how they got Kandahar back? The British handed it over to them for selling lar Pashtuns to the British. They divided Pashtuns not us.

Lar Pashtuns struggled like dogs against the British. Karlanri federation and the operations against Tribal areas especially Wazirs and Mahsuds were proof of how hard we fought to get rid of the yoke of British rule.

They are real slaves of the British then call us the same just because they betrayed us to the British. Now after we got freedom only because of Jinnah and chose to join Pakistan because they betrayed us they are saying lar aw bar yaw Afghan and trying to blackmail us due to our cultural and historical ties into a foolish union with 900 gdp per capita (PPP) Afghanistan and go into the stone age.

Pashtun_rise you are a very good person and these people are total racists. You should help me and Arooj in explaining to these over-proud, racists who they actually are. Why can't we be Pakistanis. lol. In 60 years people live and die. Enough time for loyalty to develop for your land and people.

So in your logic, because in the past the afghan backstabbed the laar pashtuns, so therfore in 2012 the pashtuns in pakistan should not give any allegiance to blood brothers in Afghanistan.