22 dead in Kabul hotel attack

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This still begs the question,
Why attack a hotel(for which there is no evidence thus far of prostitutes, it's the equivalent of "Where are the WMDs and terrorists")when there are prostitution hubs(one of the largest in Asia)right behind a famous mosque. Clearly, there is evidence for that hub.

Well, so the statement they released doesnt appear to stress prostitution. You and I, and every 10 year old boy in KP and Afghanistan proper know that prostitution goes on in unsavory places. It doesnt have to happen at a 5 star hotel right? As kids the words Jende Khiyaboonyaan and Gilaam Jimaan were joke insults kids would hurl at eachother.

If one of the Taliban's current goals were to round up prostitutes, a profession that many of them know the poorest and most downtrodden end up going into (some get sold into it), I am sure we would have had daily reports of violence towards prostitutes.

My theory on it is that locals, equivalent to the "Paddy" mentioned in that past article probably did not like what they saw in that place. It may have very well been something that you and I see as benign and day to day events that Harvard MBA business school weekly dinners have great resemblance to (everyone holding a cup of wine and guys and girls talking about ideas)... but something that the local man (per the above article from the Kabul survival guide) may not have seen eye to eye with.

It also appears to be out of the green zone and the situation may be that the inflow and outflow of foreigners attracted unwanted attention. Most of the articles do not an atmosphere of mixing and evening light heartedness and as we discussed before, we dont have a the complete guest list available to us.

[Shah-i-Kot]

Do some research, specifically in the South. Again, this isn't the thread for this discussion. Kindly start a new one, or keep your thought for some other day. For the 2nd time, N/A had thousands of Pashtuns who were loyal, and situated in the South. Even Kandahar had a minor brigade, of spera Pashtana serving Masood interests I can even go as far as naming the commander, and his district that had thousands of Pashtuns under his control, yet he served Masood's interests. Let's not kid ourselves -- some Pashtuns will sell their souls for the smell of a dollar.

yes post it as your comment

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I stand corrected, the latest statement says:
"prostitution, alcohol, immorality"

additionally this is now in:

Reuters journalist Hamid Shalizi reported that the guests were a party of wealthy Afghans.

[Admin Khan]

Well, so the statement they released doesnt appear to stress prostitution. You and I, and every 10 year old boy in KP and Afghanistan proper know that prostitution goes on in unsavory places. It doesnt have to happen at a 5 star hotel right? As kids the words Jende Khiyaboonyaan and Gilaam Jimaan were joke insults kids would hurl at eachother.

If one of the Taliban's current goals were to round up prostitutes, a profession that many of them know the poorest and most downtrodden end up going into (some get sold into it), I am sure we would have had daily reports of violence towards prostitutes.

My theory on it is that locals, equivalent to the "Paddy" mentioned in that past article probably did not like what they saw in that place. It may have very well been something that you and I see as benign and day to day events that Harvard MBA business school weekly dinners have great resemblance to (everyone holding a cup of wine and guys and girls talking about ideas)... but something that the local man (per the above article from the Kabul survival guide) may not have seen eye to eye with.

It also appears to be out of the green zone and the situation may be that the inflow and outflow of foreigners attracted unwanted attention. Most of the articles do not an atmosphere of mixing and evening light heartedness and as we discussed before, we dont have a the complete guest list available to us.

Barakzai sahab, no the reports actually did stress prostitution.

Where are the prostitutes?” the intruders demanded as they shot their way through the hotel restaurant, according to accounts by the police and survivors.


There were no prostitutes, as it turned out, and apparently no foreign guests, which Taliban spokesmen later claimed that the group had been targeting.


Also read the statement Mujahid released.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/world/asia/26-die-as-afghan-forces-fight-taliban-at-hotel.html

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

A lot of Pashtuns? Which ones? Hamid Karzai?

It seems you are confused.

Let me give you a few names of prominent leaders of Northern Alliance who are ethnic Pashtuns:

Gulbuddin Hekmatyar ( prime minister in the exiled government of Burhanudin Rabbani). When Kabul fell to the Taliban, Hekmatyar joined Rabbani and his other fellow Ikhwanul Muslimeen buddies. And then we have Abdurrab Rasool Sayyaf. Very prominent leader of northern alliance. And of course, almost everyone who belonged to Mahaz Mili, and Mujadidi's party. Almost entirely Pashtun movements. Let's not forget about Pashtun members of Jamyate Islami. Like Naqibullah from Kandahar. And Shahzadah from Surubi.

If we count how many Pashtuns were on Northern Alliance side, we can conclude that it was by far not an antirely non-Pashtun movement.

However, the non-Pashtuns did have prominence after the fall of the Taliban regime. But that was only temporary. The current government is predominantly Pashtun.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai sahab, no the reports actually did stress prostitution.

Where are the prostitutes?” the intruders demanded as they shot their way through the hotel restaurant, according to accounts by the police and survivors.


There were no prostitutes, as it turned out, and apparently no foreign guests, which Taliban spokesmen later claimed that the group had been targeting.


Also read the statement Mujahid released.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/23/wo...-at-hotel.html

Thanks, per above, I just saw this excellent MSNBC peace on it:

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news...t-23-dead?lite

"Qargha Lake is one of Kabul's few options for weekend getaways. Restaurants and hotels that dot the shore are popular with Afghan government officials and businessmen, particularly on Thursday nights."

"Rasoul Khan, 8, who works as a cleaner at the hotel, told Reuters that Taliban gunmen “were asking everyone where the pimps were. They shot anyone who would not co-operate with them."

And finally, as I noted above:
"The incident again highlighted the ability of the Afghan Taliban to stage high-profile attacks even as NATO nations prepare to withdraw most combat troops by the end of 2014, leaving Afghan forces to take the lead against the insurgency."

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Northern Alliance had a lot of Pashtuns, in the thousands. Anybody who did not know this is naive and ignorant.

or a Paki

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I do not have much knowledge of Kabul demographics outside of book knowledge, but I have always understood the city to be mostly Tajik/Uzbek/Hazara.

gold I am saving this.

[Shah-i-Kot]

It seems you are confused.

Let me give you a few names of prominent leaders of Northern Alliance who are ethnic Pashtuns:

Gulbuddin Hekmatyar ( prime minister in the exiled government of Burhanudin Rabbani). When Kabul fell to the Taliban, Hekmatyar joined Rabbani and his other fellow Ikhwanul Muslimeen buddies. And then we have Abdurrab Rasool Sayyaf. Very prominent leader of northern alliance. And of course, almost everyone who belonged to Mahaz Mili, and Mujadidi's party. Almost entirely Pashtun movements. Let's not forget about Pashtun members of Jamyate Islami. Like Naqibullah from Kandahar. And Shahzadah from Surubi.

If we count how many Pashtuns were on Northern Alliance side, we can conclude that it was by far not an antirely non-Pashtun movement.

However, the non-Pashtuns did have prominence after the fall of the Taliban regime. But that was only temporary. The current government is predominantly Pashtun.

This maybe. The Taliban has also numbers of Tajiks and Uzbeks, but not in a sizable number which makes up the majority.

Whatever exists of the grouping today is non-Pashtun like the ANA is.

[Shah-i-Kot]

gold I am saving this.

loser who spends his whole life saving random conversations. Kabul is largely populated by non-Pashtuns, now more so then ever.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

This maybe. The Taliban has also numbers of Tajiks and Uzbeks, but not in a sizable number which makes up the majority.

In the last 2 years, the number of Tajiks among Taliban increased dramatically. As a matter of fact, as far as I know, there were never so many Tajiks among Taliban.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Irish Club; a place where expats and foreigners can imbibe fermented drinks of various alcoholic nature. I few key quotes from the articles show some of the things going on there:
"Fazel Ahmed Manawi, the deputy supreme court justice, said
Muslims found drinking at the Irish Club will be punished.
"We've got a lot of foreigners living in our country and unfortunately, this is a necessary thing for them," Manawi says. "But this bar should remain a place only for foreigners."
There are Afghan staff of course, but they've all been given Irish names - Kevin, Jimmy, Michael, George - "to protect them from possible retaliation."
Most of the staff, too, are keen on keeping a low profile.
"Our families know what we do, but we tell other people we just work in a restaurant or a guesthouse selling food and soft drinks," says 22-year-old "Paddy.""


Remember, Afghans are smart, capable, adaptable people who have seen 30+ years of war. They know that rules of engagement, Geneva conventions, and ideological stances dont affect the laws of physics and projectiles. So the question remains, if the locals viewed this organization this way, I dont think its such an open and shut case that they view this incident as a rogue organizations attack on civilian life. Rather, someone like Manawi and "Paddy's" neighbors may see things a bit differently and disconnectedly, proving the point that word of mouth got information back to Zabiullah and his "gang."

Just my two cents

Using a mutually exclusive situation to explain another situation without ample evidence is an intellectually dishonest tactic; what happens in the "Irish Club" is not tantamount to what happens in Spogmai club since Spogmai is clearly NOT Irish but rather distinctly Afghan, and thus the same motivations associated with their patrons and employees do not translate.

You are arguing not on evidence but WEAK analogy.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

loser who spends his whole life saving random conversations. Kabul is largely populated by non-Pashtuns, now more so then ever.

Loser who accuses others of not being in Afghanistan admits that he himself has only "book" knowledge and not first hand experience.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

This maybe. The Taliban has also numbers of Tajiks and Uzbeks, but not in a sizable number which makes up the majority.

Whatever exists of the grouping today is non-Pashtun like the ANA is.

hahaha you want from utter denial to "this maybe" you are pathetic, misinformed and ignorant.

[Shah-i-Kot]

hahaha you want from utter denial to "this maybe" you are pathetic, misinformed and ignorant.

I dont calculate like you single depressed weirdo.

If I am wrong, I am wrong...

I see when you are proven wrong, you stick to your guns LOL to not be pathetic ...what a loser.

idiot