3 Ghazni elders killed by Taliban after uprising

[کیش]

Would the Prophet support those who claim to be believers but do injustice over pagans who are just?

Quoting the Quran

*O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): "Why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"*
(* سورة آل عمران *, Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #71)

[کیش]

actually you cried fallacy remember? you made a statement and then I asked you about Muhammad(saw)'s alliances with the Masihiyeen Habshiyeen. then you replied with this






Why do you so conveniently avoid the fact Nabi(saw) did this?

Did the Prophet join forces with Christians to fight fellow Muslims? Muawiya sure did, by appointing Christians to high administrative positions.

[کیش]

My point of bringing the Battle of Siffin into this discussion is that the Muslims were split between Muawiya and Ali (in that period). Just as how Afghan Muslims are mixed between Afghan government and Taliban. Times tells us that Ali was the rightly appointed Caliph and not Muawiya. Time will tell us who was in the right in today's conflict.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Quoting the Quran

*O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): "Why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"*
(* سورة آل عمران *, Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #71)

you mean like why you keep avoiding that Muhammad(saw) made alliances with Christians?

“This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them. Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.


No compulsion is to be on them. Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.


No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses. Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.

No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight. The Muslims are to fight for them. If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her

Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants. No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).”

English translation from ‘Muslim History: 570 – 1950 C.E.’ by Dr. A. Zahoor and Dr. Z. Haq, ZMD Corporation. P.O. Box 8231 – Gaithersburg, MD 20898-8231 – Copyright Akram Zahoor 2000. P. 167

[RevolutionThroughReason]

My point of bringing the Battle of Siffin into this discussion is that the Muslims were split between Muawiya and Ali (in that period). Just as how Afghan Muslims are mixed between Afghan government and Taliban. Times tells us that Ali was the rightly appointed Caliph and not Muawiya. Time will tell us who was in the right in today's conflict.

but if the Taliban were followers of 'Ali, rather than Mu'awiyah, why do they use brutal tactics of Mu'awiyah and not the gentle and kind tactics of 'Ali?

[کیش]

but if the Taliban were followers of 'Ali, rather than Mu'awiyah, why do they use brutal tactics of Mu'awiyah and not the gentle and kind tactics of 'Ali?

I could be wrong, Atleast I could admit it.


How about we both go back into the studying boards? Or do you claim to know everything?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I could be wrong, Atleast I could admit it.


How about we both go back into the studying boards? Or do you claim to know everything?

Well I think we can both agree that 'Ali (ra) would be doing things much differently than the Taliban

[کیش]

Well I think we can both agree that 'Ali (ra) would be doing things much differently than the Taliban

I could agree with that; Ali was raised by the Prophet and knew him best in both situations of War and Peace.

I think you can also agree that our beautiful ummah has been dilapidated. Muslim doesn't trust Muslim, and respects unbelievers over their brothers/sisters.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I could agree with that; Ali was raised by the Prophet and knew him best in both situations of War and Peace.

I think you can also agree that our beautiful ummah has been dilapidated. Muslim doesn't trust Muslim, and respects unbelievers over their brothers/sisters.

I agree but when we have Muslims who take advantage of their status as Muslim to get away with heinous crimes; We think little of quality and more about image, when it should be the reverse.
If the Taliban were doing things the right way, don't you think all of Afghanistan would be wanting them as their leaders now? It's just like in Anbar in Iraq, they were fighting and even defeating the Americans, then suddenly AlQaeda started murdering people, then look what happened?

[کیش]

I agree but when we have Muslims who take advantage of their status as Muslim to get away with heinous crimes; We think little of quality and more about image, when it should be the reverse.
If the Taliban were doing things the right way, don't you think all of Afghanistan would be wanting them as their leaders now?

That's tough to say,


Wasn't it immediately after the Prophet died that the ansar held a secret meeting excluding the Muhijireen? And after finding out about this, Abu Bakr and Umar force their way in?

Didn't Ali not pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr until Fatimah died?


The Taliban do piss me off alot. But trying to eradicate them will lead to no where. Somehow opening Islamic dialogues to guide them will be a dream of mine and should be for all Muslims.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

That's tough to say,


Wasn't it immediately after the Prophet died that the ansar held a secret meeting excluding the Muhijireen? And after finding out about this, Abu Bakr and Umar force their way in?

Didn't Ali not pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr until Fatimah died?


The Taliban do piss me off alot. But trying to eradicate them will lead to no where. Somehow opening Islamic dialogues to guide them will be a dream of mine and should be for all Muslims.

Yes that would be ideal, but when they're convinced they're right, I mean if the Taliban were only preaching aggressively, that would be ok, they have the right to do that.

But they're using physical torture and death to bring compliance. That's oppression. If they didn't do that stuff they'd be heroes, and not one afghan would be helping the Americans except the most corrupt.

[کیش]

Yes that would be ideal, but when they're convinced they're right, I mean if the Taliban were only preaching aggressively, that would be ok, they have the right to do that.

But they're using physical torture and death to bring compliance. That's oppression. If they didn't do that stuff they'd be heroes, and not one afghan would be helping the Americans except the most corrupt.

Ok yes, I understand and do agree with some of your reasoning you brought up.

But how come they aren't losing steam? After 11 years. If they were 100% wrong, why would Allah reinvent them and bring them out stronger than ever in 2006, when it seemed they were down and out? Certainly god isn't unjust and wouldn't bring them back if not for a purpose.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Ok yes, I understand and do agree with some of your reasoning you brought up.

But how come they aren't losing steam? After 11 years. If they were 100% wrong, why would Allah reinvent them and bring them out stronger than ever in 2006, when it seemed they were down and out? Certainly god isn't unjust and wouldn't bring them back if not for a purpose.

well flip the question on its head how come they haven't taken over in 11 years and why do Afghan polls tell us that Afghans only want reconciliation and not the Taliban to lead.

remember in Islamic history, when Muslims won, they generally had sweeping victories; When Salahuddin Ayoubi took back Jerusalem it was a sweeping victory. He was leader, All Just Muslims had immense support.

With the Taliban, it appears what they do is target young and impressionable children, indoctrinate them and then send them off.

Look at what happens in Africa, how do these guys like Kony still thrive after all these years? He uses young impressionable boys, grooms them and then sends them to die. It seems the Taliban use a similar strategy.

[کیش]

That's tough to say. The Talibam are fighting 50 nations who use air power every skirmish.


What do you think of their fighters who die attacking a US Base? Watch this critical video from the 5:30 minute mark to the end and let me know what you think.

Takbeer Awaaz -The Cry of Takbeer! Part 4 of 4 - Video.mp4 - YouTube

[RevolutionThroughReason]

That's tough to say. The Talibam are fighting 50 nations who use air power every skirmish.


What do you think of their fighters who die attacking a US Base? Watch this critical video from the 5:30 minute mark to the end and let me know what you think.

Takbeer Awaaz -The Cry of Takbeer! Part 4 of 4 - Video.mp4 - YouTube

Even if we factor that in, those countries aren't using scorched earth policies; they can't because then civilians will rise up against them. What they do is bank on the Taliban messing up and then sweep in to take advantage of the situation. That's what that whole "war of minds" babble is about .

Even the 50 nations was the same size as the Soviet invasion, there the entire Afghan population was involved and they won., even when the Soviets had air power. That shows us that if the Taliban were really loved by the Afghans, it would be like the Soviet- Afghan war.

Now what do I think of these men? Well tough to say, do these men think women should be buried under a cloak for the rest of their lives, or that they can be bought and sold like animals or that people learning to read and getting an education is the work of the devil?