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I have seen a few debates here maligning Pashtuns about injustices toward minorities. I have also seen Pashtuns rebuke other Pashtuns withour really much evidence at hand. The rebuke usually is some swan song along the lines of: Come on we have to admit we did wrong and just not do it again.
I think contrition is a good thing. But I think discussion followed by contrition is preferrable.
In the last decade, National Geographic has churned out a series of articles detailing Pashtun (not Taliban alone) atrocities against the Hazara people.
http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/pa...attack-0022197
Al Jazeera joins the discussion above.
The issue with the AJ Stream documentary is that it committs the same error that the Geographic issues committ when discussing the Hazara massacres. Beyond this, all the guests on the show are Hazara activists.
If you actually read Hazara literature the Hazara nationalist websites generally dont just leave the discussion to the Taliban but actually concentrate heavily on the Kochi Nomads as well. That is an example of how glaringly unrepresentative these articles and shows are. The current trend is to associate Hazara deaths with Taliban when a major journal discusses the issue; yet in reality the history and the nuances are the devil in details. As I noted, simply take a look at a Hazara nationalist website to see the vigor with which Kochi Nomads are verbally assaulted.
Here are my qualms with this unbalanced discussion currently:
1. History: The complete history of the Hazara and the Pashtun people are ignored.
2. Recent History: The recent history of Hazara militant movements such as Ali Mazari's are completely ignored.
3. The Hazara issue in Pakistan is discussed separately from the Hazara issue in Afghanistan and its made to seem that the Hazara are cute care bear dolls who are walking Buddhas and some big bad hairy Pashtun comes along and blows up a teddy bear. Yet just as the Pashtun belt and cross border issues are paramount; the Hazara issue is also a cross border one.
Historically:
1. Read any Hazara website about the roots of the Hazara people. Their claim to fame is that they carry some Y chromosome that provides a basis to their claim of being descendents of the Great Khan (Genghis) or one of his forward operating bases.
This is very important. Folks in the US have a 200 year memory. They forget that many parts of the world have a memory of a millenium. We see this in the Persian Arab; Turko Arab; Sunni Shiite; Sunni Pashtun - Shiite Iranian, French English, Irish English, Scottish English, Eastern Euro Russian Bosian Serbian motifs that continue to this day.
I referred to this previously here when I discussed Stephen Tanner's famous Military History of Afghanistan.
Tanner refers to the direct evidence, John of Plano Carpini's interview with Mongol vets 19 years after their Afghan disaster. The Mongols according to these vets traveled to that region after they laid waste to the other parts of Afghanistan, and even after they raided Peshawar, and Bajaur fruitlessly. The Mongol soldiers found a man and his wife and they were bough to Genghis. When he asked them where the people lived they replied "underground beneath the mountains." Genghis sent the couple to order the people to appear. "But then according to the Mongols 'these men gathered by ways hidden beneath the earth and came against the Tartars to do battle and sprang suddenly upon then and killed many."
Tanner goes on to say:
"What the Monk heard from Mongol veterans is strikingly similar to the stories Soviet soldiers told following their war in Afghanistan in the 1980s."
Tanner ends with this:
"It is interesting that Genghis Khan's baggage train, left behind north of the hindu kush when he began pursuit of Jalal ad Din was repeatedly raided and plundered in his absence. The sedentary communities of Afghanistan had fallen but the nomadic hill tribes remained free and were still dangerous."
***In summary, if we concede to the Hazaras their claim that they are representatives of the Great Khan and are basically the remnants of his permanent military bases on Afghan soil... we have direct historical evidence that Genghis and his men were the aggressors and the Pashtuns of the hills were there to do pitched battle and guerilla raids against him from the very moment they decided to invade Pashtun lands. He responded with ruthless aggression and archaeologically confirmed destruction of irrigation systems of these Pashtun ancestors. Basically, history shows that they threw the first punch.***
Why does this matter? Well, my suspicion is that our guest NokiaWnW is a Hazara based on his tone and speech and occasional anti sunni diatribes. He pertends to be a Tajik, but doesnt play one very well. His and the other Hazara power player responses are generally similar when Pashtuns complain about marginalization in the current government and with respect to NATO raids: his response is "tough luck you guys screwed us and now you are going to get it."
OK then that by that level of moral relativism, when Abdur Rahman was doing his business over a century ago and when the Kochyaan were doing what they did when the Ishaqzai tribesmen took some Hazara lands one could say: "tough luck... you guys are the remnants of permanent bases and now, so many hundred years later you were left stranded in hostile territory."
2. Recent history: Read about Hizbe Wahdat and Ali Mazari. Hizbe Wahdat was like the Afghan equivalent of the Sadr Mehdi Militia. The key leaders including Mazari were educated and indoctrinated in Iran. The time honored post civil war accusation by Hazaras has been: "Pashtuns are lucky to be allowed in Afghanistan as their original doctrines, ideologies, and ancestoral home all emanate from Pakistan." Basically, all Pashtun muj fighters, and even Karzai, are labeled as Pakistani interlocuters and agents. Yet Mazari gets a "out of jail free" card on the fact that he had sustained links to Iran and looked out heavily for shiite interests. When he started to demonstarte ethnocentrism he caste aside religious affiliation for a brief period and pared up with the communists around the borders of Kabul and alienated his rural Hazarajat population. During a period of time, the Hazara were heavily involved in the communist era military when it suited their interests. This entailed massacres and attacks on other ethnic groups as well, yet this component of history is glossed over.
That is not to say it was all monolithic; just as there were patriots in the other organizations who were looking for working solutions; Wahadat had its own patriots that wanted to have sunni/shiite working relationships. Mazari's alliance with Dostum shot a bazooka through such efforts though and this is exactly why Akbari forged links with the Taliban. This evidences that if nothing else; the Hizbe Wahdat leadership itself warmed up to the urban Kabul leftists and former Parcham/Khalq members.
3. The Hazara issue in Pakistan: As per above the Hazara issues in Pakistan and Afghanistan are linked. It is utterly magical thinking to assume that in both the Pashtun regions straddling the durand line and in Quetta/Chaman that an imaginary border would somehow limit violence from spilling over. Historically, it never has and it never will. In the Al Jazeera program Major Nadir Ali makes some valid points about how some early political assassinations predated the NATO intervention. The pace however picked up as radicalization of all ethnic groups has escalated. If Pakistan is playing its own cards, Iran is certainly still utilizing its own links and leverage through its former Wahdat commanders. In fact the shiite marriage rape law is evidence enough of the fact that shiite theocratic goals are still in the back of the Wahdat players minds.
Now the kicker:
Folks are going to read the above and start to get emotional without thinking through what is factually listed above. This is not a basis for the Taliban to have a get out of jail free card and go to town on the Hazaras. Just as there may have been animosities between Red Indians and Caucasians, we dont expect or accept violence now hundreds of years later. Just as there is a debate about affirmative action and whether anyone is owed anything in the post slavery era; there is a debate here as well.
There should be mutual respect for ideologies, life, liberty, and property on both sides of the ethnic and religious divide, but playing the innocent card all day and all night and then telling the Pashtuns that their marginalization is simply historical blowback borders on ignorant and assinine. If such is the case, then AbdurRahman could simply have burned down Hazarajat and said "blowback."
And the educated Pashtuns should also have some patriotism and ethnical devotion to the facts. Simply kow towing the world's apparent propaganda based view against your own people is not doing our language, history, and people any service whatsoever. As I said, go read Hazara websites and books. The emphasis up the Taliban era fell predominantly on Kochi Nomads being called brigands. Taliban basically, their literature, is synonomous with Pashtun.
I think contrition is a good thing. But I think discussion followed by contrition is preferrable.
In the last decade, National Geographic has churned out a series of articles detailing Pashtun (not Taliban alone) atrocities against the Hazara people.
http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/pa...attack-0022197
Al Jazeera joins the discussion above.
The issue with the AJ Stream documentary is that it committs the same error that the Geographic issues committ when discussing the Hazara massacres. Beyond this, all the guests on the show are Hazara activists.
If you actually read Hazara literature the Hazara nationalist websites generally dont just leave the discussion to the Taliban but actually concentrate heavily on the Kochi Nomads as well. That is an example of how glaringly unrepresentative these articles and shows are. The current trend is to associate Hazara deaths with Taliban when a major journal discusses the issue; yet in reality the history and the nuances are the devil in details. As I noted, simply take a look at a Hazara nationalist website to see the vigor with which Kochi Nomads are verbally assaulted.
Here are my qualms with this unbalanced discussion currently:
1. History: The complete history of the Hazara and the Pashtun people are ignored.
2. Recent History: The recent history of Hazara militant movements such as Ali Mazari's are completely ignored.
3. The Hazara issue in Pakistan is discussed separately from the Hazara issue in Afghanistan and its made to seem that the Hazara are cute care bear dolls who are walking Buddhas and some big bad hairy Pashtun comes along and blows up a teddy bear. Yet just as the Pashtun belt and cross border issues are paramount; the Hazara issue is also a cross border one.
Historically:
1. Read any Hazara website about the roots of the Hazara people. Their claim to fame is that they carry some Y chromosome that provides a basis to their claim of being descendents of the Great Khan (Genghis) or one of his forward operating bases.
This is very important. Folks in the US have a 200 year memory. They forget that many parts of the world have a memory of a millenium. We see this in the Persian Arab; Turko Arab; Sunni Shiite; Sunni Pashtun - Shiite Iranian, French English, Irish English, Scottish English, Eastern Euro Russian Bosian Serbian motifs that continue to this day.
I referred to this previously here when I discussed Stephen Tanner's famous Military History of Afghanistan.
Tanner refers to the direct evidence, John of Plano Carpini's interview with Mongol vets 19 years after their Afghan disaster. The Mongols according to these vets traveled to that region after they laid waste to the other parts of Afghanistan, and even after they raided Peshawar, and Bajaur fruitlessly. The Mongol soldiers found a man and his wife and they were bough to Genghis. When he asked them where the people lived they replied "underground beneath the mountains." Genghis sent the couple to order the people to appear. "But then according to the Mongols 'these men gathered by ways hidden beneath the earth and came against the Tartars to do battle and sprang suddenly upon then and killed many."
Tanner goes on to say:
"What the Monk heard from Mongol veterans is strikingly similar to the stories Soviet soldiers told following their war in Afghanistan in the 1980s."
Tanner ends with this:
"It is interesting that Genghis Khan's baggage train, left behind north of the hindu kush when he began pursuit of Jalal ad Din was repeatedly raided and plundered in his absence. The sedentary communities of Afghanistan had fallen but the nomadic hill tribes remained free and were still dangerous."
***In summary, if we concede to the Hazaras their claim that they are representatives of the Great Khan and are basically the remnants of his permanent military bases on Afghan soil... we have direct historical evidence that Genghis and his men were the aggressors and the Pashtuns of the hills were there to do pitched battle and guerilla raids against him from the very moment they decided to invade Pashtun lands. He responded with ruthless aggression and archaeologically confirmed destruction of irrigation systems of these Pashtun ancestors. Basically, history shows that they threw the first punch.***
Why does this matter? Well, my suspicion is that our guest NokiaWnW is a Hazara based on his tone and speech and occasional anti sunni diatribes. He pertends to be a Tajik, but doesnt play one very well. His and the other Hazara power player responses are generally similar when Pashtuns complain about marginalization in the current government and with respect to NATO raids: his response is "tough luck you guys screwed us and now you are going to get it."
OK then that by that level of moral relativism, when Abdur Rahman was doing his business over a century ago and when the Kochyaan were doing what they did when the Ishaqzai tribesmen took some Hazara lands one could say: "tough luck... you guys are the remnants of permanent bases and now, so many hundred years later you were left stranded in hostile territory."
2. Recent history: Read about Hizbe Wahdat and Ali Mazari. Hizbe Wahdat was like the Afghan equivalent of the Sadr Mehdi Militia. The key leaders including Mazari were educated and indoctrinated in Iran. The time honored post civil war accusation by Hazaras has been: "Pashtuns are lucky to be allowed in Afghanistan as their original doctrines, ideologies, and ancestoral home all emanate from Pakistan." Basically, all Pashtun muj fighters, and even Karzai, are labeled as Pakistani interlocuters and agents. Yet Mazari gets a "out of jail free" card on the fact that he had sustained links to Iran and looked out heavily for shiite interests. When he started to demonstarte ethnocentrism he caste aside religious affiliation for a brief period and pared up with the communists around the borders of Kabul and alienated his rural Hazarajat population. During a period of time, the Hazara were heavily involved in the communist era military when it suited their interests. This entailed massacres and attacks on other ethnic groups as well, yet this component of history is glossed over.
That is not to say it was all monolithic; just as there were patriots in the other organizations who were looking for working solutions; Wahadat had its own patriots that wanted to have sunni/shiite working relationships. Mazari's alliance with Dostum shot a bazooka through such efforts though and this is exactly why Akbari forged links with the Taliban. This evidences that if nothing else; the Hizbe Wahdat leadership itself warmed up to the urban Kabul leftists and former Parcham/Khalq members.
3. The Hazara issue in Pakistan: As per above the Hazara issues in Pakistan and Afghanistan are linked. It is utterly magical thinking to assume that in both the Pashtun regions straddling the durand line and in Quetta/Chaman that an imaginary border would somehow limit violence from spilling over. Historically, it never has and it never will. In the Al Jazeera program Major Nadir Ali makes some valid points about how some early political assassinations predated the NATO intervention. The pace however picked up as radicalization of all ethnic groups has escalated. If Pakistan is playing its own cards, Iran is certainly still utilizing its own links and leverage through its former Wahdat commanders. In fact the shiite marriage rape law is evidence enough of the fact that shiite theocratic goals are still in the back of the Wahdat players minds.
Now the kicker:
Folks are going to read the above and start to get emotional without thinking through what is factually listed above. This is not a basis for the Taliban to have a get out of jail free card and go to town on the Hazaras. Just as there may have been animosities between Red Indians and Caucasians, we dont expect or accept violence now hundreds of years later. Just as there is a debate about affirmative action and whether anyone is owed anything in the post slavery era; there is a debate here as well.
There should be mutual respect for ideologies, life, liberty, and property on both sides of the ethnic and religious divide, but playing the innocent card all day and all night and then telling the Pashtuns that their marginalization is simply historical blowback borders on ignorant and assinine. If such is the case, then AbdurRahman could simply have burned down Hazarajat and said "blowback."
And the educated Pashtuns should also have some patriotism and ethnical devotion to the facts. Simply kow towing the world's apparent propaganda based view against your own people is not doing our language, history, and people any service whatsoever. As I said, go read Hazara websites and books. The emphasis up the Taliban era fell predominantly on Kochi Nomads being called brigands. Taliban basically, their literature, is synonomous with Pashtun.
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