What if there is a UNION between Afghanistan & Pakistan

[tor_khan]

we will create the first electric dodai machine, I promise

Too late. If you walk into an Arab supermarket for a pack of khubz chances are they have a machine in the bakery section that kneads, rolls, flattens, shapes and bakes it for you. It is then carried on a conveyor where it is plastic sealed the other side.

Meanwhile if you want genuine tandoori style dodai you can do downtown and find Pashtuns in their partogs and tshirts sweating over hot ovens.

[RichPashtun]

we is gonna have only Caucasian looking Pashtun left after my project completion!

Well, I see a Caucasian... i don´t see any dark-skinned Indian-like man. However, Indians, Tajiks or Pashtuns share the same ancestory but the stupid claim of your coward brother Panjabis can join India because of this and that was ridicolous. Panjabistan and Pakistan are real and not a single Pathan or an AFghan Pashtun, even united, can do anything against Pakistan.

Yeah, my heroe´s brother lol stay stupid my dravidian Talib friend

Ps: we need modern genetics on specific tribes like the Arab-in-breed of Ahmadzai Pashtuns who got intermixxed with Indians and Dravidians. The Jewish part among the Afridis maybe lost for 1000years ago but you can filter the jewish part on them.. just go for a specific tribal test and not like the most studies just collecting people from a region like Peshawar where the Indians and Panjabis dominate that region for 4000years.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Too late. If you walk into an Arab supermarket for a pack of khubz chances are they have a machine in the bakery section that kneads, rolls, flattens, shapes and bakes it for you. It is then carried on a conveyor where it is plastic sealed the other side.

Meanwhile if you want genuine tandoori style dodai you can do downtown and find Pashtuns in their partogs and tshirts sweating over hot ovens.

sorry I meant INSTANT Dodai machine

[RevolutionThroughReason]

we is gonna have only Caucasian looking Pashtun left after my project completion!

all Pashtuns look caucasian.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

You make one mistake..calling yourself Sunnis. Majority of Pashtuns just accept half of Islam and Qoran. How you call that? Islamic? 90% of Pashtunwali is against the laws of Qoran and Islam. I don´t talk here about Pashtuns who grow up among non-Pashtuns and who learned another version of Islam I mean the Pasthun Islam mostly you can see in the rural regions and in the two urban centres, Kandahar and Peshawar. Compare a ''Sunni'' Pashtun with a Sunni Panjabi, Uzbek or Indian you will see how differnt they are. The only people who could really called as Sunnis are the Taliban.

If that's your argument then no one is Sunni, even Tajiks do many unislamic customs like putting Quran over the head of the aroosi and zalmai during a wedding.

Sunni Tajiks do all sorts of things which are not apart of Sunni teachings, Nawroz is not in Sunni teaching, even though we all celebrate it. But Prophet Muhammad (saw) never did.

so if we say someone is not Sunni just because they have some cultural laws they follow, then no one will be Sunni then.

[NokiaWnW]

If that's your argument then no one is Sunni, even Tajiks do many unislamic customs like putting Quran over the head of the aroosi and zalmai during a wedding.

ARE YOU JOKING???? WHAT HAS THIS TO DO WITH INFIDILITY??? ACCEPTING HALF OF KORAN AND ISLAM CAN NOT BE COMPARED WITH THAT TRADITION THAT DARI-ZUBAN PASHTUNS FOLLOW, TOO. WHAT IS IN THAT PART NOT ISLAMIC? IT has something to do with blessing. DON´T Accept only 1% OF ISLAM AND QORAN AND YOU ARE A KFR. BUT YOU DO NOT ACCEPT HALF OF IT!!! Do you see the difference?

Sunni Tajiks do all sorts of things which are not apart of Sunni teachings, Nawroz is not in Sunni teaching, even though we all celebrate it. But Prophet Muhammad (saw) never did.

What a stupid comment. Prophet Mohammad was not a Tajik and was not related with Tajik culture and identity. Mohammad was an Arab. It´s like saying Africans do not practizing Nauroz. What has Nauroz to do with Islam or it´s harming? Nauroz does not mean you do not accept Islam or Qoran. You forget that Sunni Tajiks converted your Anil, Kumar, Sing ancestors with sword and islamic engagement to Muslims! The prophet himself says if a culture or tradition does not stand in opposite to the words of God than it it Makro. Nauroz is MAKRO. NAUROZ DOES NOT MEAN TO DENY HALF OF ISLAM AND QORAN AND STILL CALL YOURSELF MUSLIM.

so if we say someone is not Sunni just because they have some cultural laws they follow, then no one will be Sunni then.

So many things are not Islamic. Pashtuns are only by name Sunni and Muslims. The real Sunnis are unfortunately the Taliban who neverlessness what kind of creatures they are and also belong to infidels because of their acts and behaves but at least they ''believe'' in Islam and Qoran. If you ask me I would call a Jihaad against the infidels in ISLAMIC STATES OF AFGHANISTAN who missuse the name of Islam and Sunnis for their political agendas. What we don´t have may be will come in the next future. Alhamdulellah

Even if non-Pashtuns are not ''islamic'' enough, you are worser than them and with no legitimation you have the right to call or draw anything on islamic values and duties. You are the army of Satan who try to fool Muslims from the within of the Ummah. That´s very easy for Satan using Islam to convert Human and Muslims to infidels.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

ARE YOU JOKING???? WHAT HAS THIS TO DO WITH INFIDILITY??? ACCEPTING HALF OF KORAN AND ISLAM CAN NOT BE COMPARED WITH THAT TRADITION THAT

well if they followed the whole Qur'an then Tajiks would not have those traditions right? So stop celebrating Nawruz since Nawruz is not apart of Islam.

What a stupid comment. Prophet Mohammad was not a Tajik and was not related with Tajik culture and identity.

so why are you following those customs, leave those behind if you're so devoted to Islam and follow ONLY the traditions Islam describes explicitly. Just follow what Sunni Islam commands and nothing else.

Or else your preaching is just showing you're a hypocrite.

So many things are not Islamic. Pashtuns are only by name Sunni and Muslims.

Then for the same reason Tajiks are not Islamic; when you stop making haft mewah on Nawruz and yalda and all this stuff, then you can say who is a true Sunni and who isn't not.

Even if non-Pashtuns are not ''islamic'' enough,

well then if you admit this; then you're admitting you're not real Sunnis either, so your argument backfires against you. If you say that these do not affect someone being a Sunni, then neither does what Pashtuns do.

[R3SISTANC3]

It does sound pretty simple - forget all the stages of development and move straight to a high-tech industry. Economic development of North Korea started when it became a colony of Japan and especially after WWII when the Americans opened their market for North Korean goods and heavily invested in their economy. Because all these East-Asian countries had export oriented development strategies, access to the sea played a vital role in their progress and development.

All these countries have been through the hard-labour before they moved on to soft/smart-labour, some continue to do so even today. Only a faction of India's billion+ population is employed in the high-tech industry. "India's IT industry, despite contributing significantly to its balance of payments, accounts for only about 1% of the total GDP or 1/50th of the total services."

I would love to see silicon vallies everywhere across Afghanistan and Pakhunkhwa, but seriously, how realistic is that? I know there is a silicon valley in the United States, Israel and India is trying to build something similar, but looking at our current position, it will probably take us centuries. Even if we are to get there in decades, we still have to go through the "hard-labour" process of economic development.

Let's get back to the main question, what do you think about a union between these two countries? and Why?

Yes all these countries went through the hard labor only because the technology wasn't there. We should learn from their experiences and see how they are making a transformation from hard labor to smart work. Why do something that they are no longer interested in? Machines are replacing all the hard labor work. To get to the level of perfection of machine made car, Afghans have to go through multiple decades.

The best thing about IT is that it doesnt need an invasion nor does it need that much of heavy investments. For example what hard labor did Israel go through? Technology plays a huge part of its economy. Everything you see on the internet from web technologies to mobile apps can be traced to Israel. I wonder why Pakistan take the same route as India? They are still stuck to their importing and exporting adventures. On the other hand what can Afghanistan export, dry food? hand made carpets?

No, it will not take centuries. You can create mini hubs within 20 to 30 years. It didn't take India centuries. What it took was establishing IT schools all over villages. Giving their populace free education, and giving advancement on merits. Those who worked hard and proved themselves are recruited and the foundation started from there. All it takes is one Afghan generation to be highly educated and trained. Just one generation. That will multiple many folds.

To your original question...as is it wont work. I don't see how that can happen except both Pakistan and Afghanistan are divided into further states. There would be the Pashtun state, the Tajik state, Hazara state, Uzbek state, Punjabi state, Muhajir state, Sindhi state, Balochi state, Seriaki state and all these states live in union like the European union or the US. The countries Afghanistan and Pakistan has to go. Other then that the only solution is for Afghanistan to recognize the border and deal with it. Move on. If the KP Pashtun want to join Afghanistan they'll figure a way out. Afghans need to work on standing on their own feet and stop pulling those people towards them who have no interest in joining it.

And what makes you think that the KP Pashtun parties want to share their pie of 40 million strong, industrial and economically superior to the Pashtuns of Afghanistan with you? You think they will join Afghanistan and be subordinates to Karzai or Mullah Omar? ANP and PKMP, just one example. I mean if the KP parties against each other are ready to make the deal with the devil in Islamabad...what do you think.

[NokiaWnW]

Revolution,

Nauroz is not Islamic but its another context and it does not stand against Islam. It has nothing to do with Islam while Pashtunwali is just unislamic in many ways. Pashtunwali even opposite strict Qoranic laws! Don´t compare potatoes with apples. That´s not enough. In addition, the ordinery Pashtun does not know how to pray, he does not know how to make wudu and he prefere his tribal identity over Koran and Islam. He accepts Islam and Qoran just to an half. Why you try to change words and facts? Yeah, Nauroz is like selling your daughters or exchanging them for a mule! Do you actually read yourself what you produce here?????

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Revolution,

Nauroz is not Islamic but its another context and it does not stand against Islam. It has nothing to do with Islam while Pashtunwali is just unislamic in many ways. Pashtunwali even opposite strict Qoranic laws! Don´t compare potatoes with apples. That´s not enough. In addition, the ordinery Pashtun does not know how to pray, he does not know how to make wudu and he prefere his tribal identity over Koran and Islam. He accepts Islam and Qoran just to an half. Why you try to change words and facts? Yeah, Nauroz is like selling your daughters or exchanging them for a mule! Do you actually read yourself what you produce here?????

Once again, you are so pent up with rage and hatred toward Pashtuns that you are letting that get in front of your logical view of things. Mate gaurding behavior and characteristics has been in the region since time immemorial. Contrary to the propaganda it did not come from Pakistan or Arabia. Pashtuns, Tajiks, Hazaras, and Uzbeks men can all be very hot headed and most of the times give in to cultural mores.

With respect to Nawroz, I dont see a major problem with it and dont think that an irrelevent cultural war needs to be fought over it. However, historically it was Shah Ismail I of the Safawid dynasty who bought the custom back into the Iranian/persian lexicon. In sunni Iran the Avestan customs were generally lower key. There was still some celebration of Nawroz, but Shah Ismail relinked it, for instance with the Iranian Red Man (Santa Clause like character) and attempted to decouple sunni Iran from its Caliphate connections with such efforts.

Pashtunwali is basically a set of tribal customs, some of which accomodate Islam and some of which run counter. A major conflict for instance with Islam is the inheritance of widows that the Quran directly banned. This practice still goes on. However, these sorts of departings from Islam occur in all the provinces.

Some of this mate gaurding behavior can even be seen in the crimes against women across the regions. As a similarity to other regions consider the non Muslim yazidi population that stoned a girl in Iraq... many times populations that are not on the technological cusp have their own idiosyncratic ways of utilizing cultural standards as opposed tos ome higher moral ground.

The Darwinistic retardedness can even be seen inthe ethnic conflict that occurs back home man. It can be seen in the wider Arab-Persian conflict and the Arab Turkish conflict and it drives much of the worlds struggle for resources. If you are from a weaker and another ethnic group and you sit on some resources another group with a slightly different genetic heritage and set of memes will try to remove you and may even take a civilizing concept (right to democracy and/or Islam) and use it for barbarism.

A way to overcome these things is mutual goals and mutual benefits from cooperation, intermarriage etc.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Revolution,

Nauroz is not Islamic but its another context and it does not stand against Islam. It has nothing to do with Islam while Pashtunwali is just unislamic in many ways. Pashtunwali even opposite strict Qoranic laws! Don´t compare potatoes with apples. That´s not enough. In addition, the ordinery Pashtun does not know how to pray, he does not know how to make wudu and he prefere his tribal identity over Koran and Islam. He accepts Islam and Qoran just to an half. Why you try to change words and facts? Yeah, Nauroz is like selling your daughters or exchanging them for a mule! Do you actually read yourself what you produce here?????

if Pashtunwali is "unlsiamic" in many ways ....so is Tajik culture has practices not authorized by Muhammad(saw) end of story. So based on your argument it is opposite of strict Qur'anic Laws. Tajiks also sell their daughters look up human trafficking, this is done in every poor Muslim country.

are you saying human trafficking is Islamic?

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/rights/articles/pp042504.shtml

you can stop being a hypocrite now.

If Pashtuns only accept a Half, then so do Tajiks. I am not against Tajiks; but I am against hypocrites, you sir are a big hypocrite. Also I know many things about Pashtunwali is unIslamic; but I see even worse things with Tajiks, so how can you even make a remark?

Change the Unislamic stuff about Tajiks first, then preach to Pashtuns

[Michin Khel]

I once posted a similar thread like this for fun on an afghan-forum, most of the reactions of pashtuns and tajiks were like "wtf why should we pollute our genetics?"...on the facebook page of afghanistan ,a discussion was goining on similar topic and many afghans there were saying that very idea of living along with punjabis in same country is suffocating and even pakistani pashtuns too much desified/punjabied/urdufied.
So i think one of the main hurdle is race particularly for those westren afghans who were raised in westren society which is sensitive to race and skin colour.
Many afghans think afghanistan is more close to iran than pakistan in terms of culture , genetics and langauge (dari). I agree but iranis are quite racist and unaccomadating compared to pakistanis. If iran-afghanistan confederation occurs, i doubt that iranis would be fine with bold afghans roaming in their villages , towns and cities hijacking small jobs from them. I have observed that afghans are the toughest and fearless when it comes to living in foriegn lands, they quicky establish jobs for them and are not intimidated by locals. This trait works finely in pakistan but in iran it would definately cause racial/ethnic tensions and may be riots. Afghanistan-pakistan confederation would mostly benefit afghans, hard working afghans would be able to avail those jobs in pakistan which they curruntly cant because they dont have pakistani nationality.
personally i am not in fovour of union. Population explosion is going on in pakistan, its future is dark. On the other hand afghanistan is with tiny population and it can have bright future.
Also i disagree with ghorzang that your share same sect with punjabis,..pashtuns are mostly deobandi and punjabis are mostly bareillvi ahal-sunnat type, several "bidat" like mazar-prasti, urs, milad etc are of main religous importance there , while we dont...thats why punjabis think that we are wahabis as we follow straight forward islam...

[Khostai]

I once posted a similar thread like this for fun on an afghan-forum, most of the reactions of pashtuns and tajiks were like "wtf why should we pollute our genetics?"...on the facebook page of afghanistan ,a discussion was goining on similar topic and many afghans there were saying that very idea of living along with punjabis in same country is suffocating and even pakistani pashtuns too much desified/punjabied/urdufied.
So i think one of the main hurdle is race particularly for those westren afghans who were raised in westren society which is sensitive to race and skin colour.
Many afghans think afghanistan is more close to iran than pakistan in terms of culture , genetics and langauge (dari). I agree but iranis are quite racist and unaccomadating compared to pakistanis. If iran-afghanistan confederation occurs, i doubt that iranis would be fine with bold afghans roaming in their villages , towns and cities hijacking small jobs from them. I have observed that afghans are the toughest and fearless when it comes to living in foriegn lands, they quicky establish jobs for them and are not intimidated by locals. This trait works finely in pakistan but in iran it would definately cause racial/ethnic tensions and may be riots. Afghanistan-pakistan confederation would mostly benefit afghans, hard working afghans would be able to avail those jobs in pakistan which they curruntly cant because they dont have pakistani nationality.
personally i am not in fovour of union. Population explosion is going on in pakistan, its future is dark. On the other hand afghanistan is with tiny population and it can have bright future.
Also i disagree with ghorzang that your share same sect with punjabis,..pashtuns are mostly deobandi and punjabis are mostly bareillvi ahal-sunnat type, several "bidat" like mazar-prasti, urs, milad etc are of main religous importance there , while we dont...thats why punjabis think that we are wahabis as we follow straight forward islam...

There are Afgans in Iran and have jobs, I don't see any riots...
But anyway, most Afghans ( Tajik, Hazara, Uzback or Pashtun) don't want to join any country let it be Pakistan or Iran. The only thing that Afghans are open is if the Pashtun areas of Pakistan could join them but from personal expierience I know that majority of PAshtun form Pakistan don't want that.
And by the way most Afghans who live in the west had really bad expierience in Pakistan and Iran, that's way they don't like the idea of living toghether, and if you post a question if Afghanistan wants to joing Iran in union the same reaction would be given as about the Pakistan.

[KGODB]

The only confederation that would work would be that of not just Afghanistan and Pakistan, but also Iran and Central Asia

[tor_khan]

Some interesting thoughts on the this topic have been raised before. I could have merged the threads, but decided to keep them separate. Here is a link for reference.