What if there is a UNION between Afghanistan & Pakistan

[Blue Flower]

Also i disagree with ghorzang that your share same sect with punjabis,..pashtuns are mostly deobandi and punjabis are mostly bareillvi ahal-sunnat type, several "bidat" like mazar-prasti, urs, milad etc are of main religous importance there , while we dont...thats why punjabis think that we are wahabis as we follow straight forward islam...

Have u ever noticed that the curse which pakhtuns are facing today is because of that straight forwardness , afghanistan was a center of sufism for many dacades and many of its ruling classes were closer to it, but since aurangzeb spread harsh deobandi type islam across his kingdom, it was again revived by arabs in 1970s under the label of jihad and mehdi force.
If u consider the transformation of wahibism in pakhtuns a good thing i consider it a character weakness.

[Blue Flower]

The only confederation that would work would be that of not just Afghanistan and Pakistan, but also Iran and Central Asia

It can never happen beacause it will involve many fractions, they can be an
economic bloc like europe or south america

[randolph85]

these countries are unstable on their own because of internal division, lumping together a bunch of unstable countries together doesn't do anyone any good. on the other hand it is easy for countries in the gcc to form a union because they have little internal troubles, basically the same economies, same people, and same culture. even with all these ingredients, its taken 30 years since the gcc was formed that these gulf arabs are now thinking about creating a union.

[Ghorzang]

I once posted a similar thread like this for fun on an afghan-forum, most of the reactions of pashtuns and tajiks were like "wtf why should we pollute our genetics?"...on the facebook page of afghanistan ,a discussion was goining on similar topic and many afghans there were saying that very idea of living along with punjabis in same country is suffocating and even pakistani pashtuns too much desified/punjabied/urdufied.
So i think one of the main hurdle is race particularly for those westren afghans who were raised in westren society which is sensitive to race and skin colour.
Many afghans think afghanistan is more close to iran than pakistan in terms of culture , genetics and langauge (dari). I agree but iranis are quite racist and unaccomadating compared to pakistanis. If iran-afghanistan confederation occurs, i doubt that iranis would be fine with bold afghans roaming in their villages , towns and cities hijacking small jobs from them. I have observed that afghans are the toughest and fearless when it comes to living in foriegn lands, they quicky establish jobs for them and are not intimidated by locals. This trait works finely in pakistan but in iran it would definately cause racial/ethnic tensions and may be riots. Afghanistan-pakistan confederation would mostly benefit afghans, hard working afghans would be able to avail those jobs in pakistan which they curruntly cant because they dont have pakistani nationality.
personally i am not in fovour of union. Population explosion is going on in pakistan, its future is dark. On the other hand afghanistan is with tiny population and it can have bright future.
Also i disagree with ghorzang that your share same sect with punjabis,..pashtuns are mostly deobandi and punjabis are mostly bareillvi ahal-sunnat type, several "bidat" like mazar-prasti, urs, milad etc are of main religous importance there , while we dont...thats why punjabis think that we are wahabis as we follow straight forward islam...

"Pollute our genetics" - like we are so pure right now. We have to grow up someday, start using our brains rather than our emotions.

The only confederation that would work would be that of not just Afghanistan and Pakistan, but also Iran and Central Asia

That might be a little close to impossible at the moment.

Some interesting thoughts on the this topic have been raised before. I could have merged the threads, but decided to keep them separate. Here is a link for reference.

tor_khan lala, anything you want to add to the thread? Would love to hear your opinion on the topic and comments on the little I have written.

I will go through the other post as well.

[Kabulistan]

You guys have to keep in mind that Pashtuns make up more than 15% of Pakistan's population. Pakistan conducts linguistic, not ethnic census and a huge chunk of our Pashtuns speak Hindko, Urdu, Punjabi, Siraki and other languages.

I even posted an article about this issue in this forum I believe. I will see if I can find that article.

East Pakistanis are Indian/Indic people...

A reunion of Afghanistan + Iran + Tajikistan + Uzbekistan + Iraq is much more realistic than a Pakistan (majority Indic/Indian) and Afghanistan...

Plus there are like 150 million Punjabis+Sindhis...Afghanistan only has 30 million total population...No way Afghans want to be ethnically dominated by Desis from the other side of the Indus...

Loy Afghanistan nationalists only want Baluch and Pashtun lands to merge with Afghanistan. This way both Baloch and Pashtuns of Pakistan reunite with Baloch and Pashtuns of Afghanistan, as well as gain access to the sea...Tbh...It's a win win for all (except Punjabies) I don't know why Loy Afghanistan hasn't happened yet...when it's makes so much more sense than these people (Pashtuns and Baloch) being part of Pakistan (majority Indian country)...

[Daryeh]

If parts of western Pakistan (i.e. Pashtun majority areas) joined Afghanistan, parts of western and northern Afghanistan (i.e. Tajik majority areas) could join Tajikistan. Remainder of Pakistan could merge into India but unfortunately they don't get along. So the alternative is that Pakistan continues existing, based on an Indic-Muslim identity. Honestly, there was no reason for Pakistan to even exist, it's just the Belgium of Asia. Everyone would be happier if they lived in a country that was ethnically, culturally and linguistically similar to them. It would avoid so many conflicts between Tajik vs Pashtun, Pashtun/Baloch vs Punjabi.

[Elite Pakhtun]

If parts of western Pakistan (i.e. Pashtun majority areas) joined Afghanistan, parts of western and northern Afghanistan (i.e. Tajik majority areas) could join Tajikistan. Remainder of Pakistan could merge into India but unfortunately they don't get along. So the alternative is that Pakistan continues existing, based on an Indic-Muslim identity. Honestly, there was no reason for Pakistan to even exist, it's just the Belgium of Asia. Everyone would be happier if they lived in a country that was ethnically, culturally and linguistically similar to them. It would avoid so many conflicts between Tajik vs Pashtun, Pashtun/Baloch vs Punjabi.

There is a reason for pakistan to exist. That reason is ahmad shah durrani failed to get rid of the sikh problem when he had the chance to. As a result, sikhs had their day, and then the brits did. That determined the borders you see today.

[Iblis_Efreetzai]

There is a reason for pakistan to exist. That reason is ahmad shah durrani failed to get rid of the sikh problem when he had the chance to. As a result, sikhs had their day, and then the brits did. That determined the borders you see today.

This is actually very true, one of the short sightings of Afghan Natiomalists is that they believe everyone else is at fault for Afghanistan's woes, but they never address the incompetence of our leaders of past and present.

[logical]

No one want union in Pakistan. There is huge census controversy just because of few million illegal afghanis. Adding 40 million more and giving them equal rights as any other Pakistani? Forget about it.

Pakistan started from 0 and it was supposed to last 2 years. Current Afghanistan is in better shape then Pakistan in 1947. We build everything from ground up and no one have any desire to merge with anyone. But there is desire for peaceful co existence just not as equals.

[RoohMalang]

I have to be honest here. What is this big phobia of Punjabis among Pashtuns? Even when you guys settle in Punjab you have your own exclusive neighborhoods and villages. In reality you guys impose most of your KPK culture here than otherwise, and we don't have a problem with it. You guys are **** scared because Pashtuns are learning Urdu in Punjab? LMAO You guys ****ing learn Urdu in Peshawar as well, so what is this huge fear?

Honestly, I just don't understand.

[RoohMalang]

Afghanistan & Pakistan Confederation - YouTube

[Shapur]

No one want union in Pakistan. There is huge census controversy just because of few million illegal afghanis. Adding 40 million more and giving them equal rights as any other Pakistani? Forget about it.

Pakistan started from 0 and it was supposed to last 2 years. Current Afghanistan is in better shape then Pakistan in 1947. We build everything from ground up and no one have any desire to merge with anyone. But there is desire for peaceful co existence just not as equals.

Pakistan did not start from zero. Pakistan had huge backing from Britain and USA during its early days. The extensive canal system in Punjab and Sindh was developed by British engineering, before that majority of this area was semi arid desert except for areas close to the rivers. The British did everything to ensure Pakistan survives as a state. The British also built the railways, the army and judicial system. You need to do more research.
During Pak-India wars, USA supported Pakistan against India while India had the backing of Russia. One of thr reasons Indian air force lost to Pakistan air force during 65 war was becausd Pakistan got the superior F16 jets from USA. Its only recently that there is a shift in US policy in favour of India becausd of emerging threat from China and the Pak-Chiness alliance.

[Shapur]

I have to be honest here. What is this big phobia of Punjabis among Pashtuns? Even when you guys settle in Punjab you have your own exclusive neighborhoods and villages. In reality you guys impose most of your KPK culture here than otherwise, and we don't have a problem with it. You guys are **** scared because Pashtuns are learning Urdu in Punjab? LMAO You guys ****ing learn Urdu in Peshawar as well, so what is this huge fear?

Honestly, I just don't understand.

There is no phobia. It is a real exisistential threat to Pashtun identity. More than 90% of educated Pashtuns in Pakistan can not read or write in Pashto and 60% or more of all Pashtuns live in Pakistan. Maybe Punjabis, Sindhis and other Indics don't care about losing their identity but Pashtuns do care.
Having Pashto as the primary means of all communication should be the priority of all Pashtuns because a language can not survive whdn it is hardly usex and has no state backing.

[logical]

Pakistan did not start from zero. Pakistan had huge backing from Britain and USA during its early days.

No it didn't, British were in bed with Nehru and tried to give as less land as possible.

The extensive canal system in Punjab and Sindh was developed by British engineering, before that majority of this area was semi arid desert except for areas close to the rivers. The British did everything to ensure Pakistan survives as a state. The British also built the railways, the army and judicial system. You need to do more research.

British didn't introduce farming in Pakistan. People used to eat before they came. Just like people in Afghanistan are not dying of hunger but other reasons. British didn't provide monetary support to army after they left. Railways never served Pakistan much.

When I say 0, I meant there was absolute nothing. All industries, roads, etc one see in Pakistan today are all build after 1947. Rich muhajirs gave their fortune to pay salaries of early government servants, so much for British support. Imagine if Trump/USA cut of Afghanistan funds, they will not survive couple of weeks.

Karachi used to be nothing more then a fishing village, just like Gwadar was before Pakistan brought it from Oman.

During Pak-India wars, USA supported Pakistan against India while India had the backing of Russia. One of thr reasons Indian air force lost to Pakistan air force during 65 war was becausd Pakistan got the superior F16 jets from USA. Its only recently that there is a shift in US policy in favour of India becausd of emerging threat from China and the Pak-Chiness alliance.

You are not well versed with our history. F-16 in 1965 lol, it didn't even exist back then. But Pakistan did buy western planes and India soviet ones. It was because of legendary urdu speaking pilots like Alam that Pakistan had upper hand compared to India. He alone destroyed 5 Indian planes under 30 seconds, still world record to this day.

Compare that to what Afghanistan get today. All their budget which is in billions of dollars come from USA that support army and government workers. Even parliament building was gifted by India. Everything Afghanistan have made in last 20 years is thanks to foreign aid. I wish Pakistan had this kind of support in 1947.

[Kakar-Wardak]

There is no phobia. It is a real exisistential threat to Pashtun identity. More than 90% of educated Pashtuns in Pakistan can not read or write in Pashto and 60% or more of all Pashtuns live in Pakistan. Maybe Punjabis, Sindhis and other Indics don't care about losing their identity but Pashtuns do care.
Having Pashto as the primary means of all communication should be the priority of all Pashtuns because a language can not survive whdn it is hardly usex and has no state backing.

Punjabi will survive in East Punjab and Pashto will survive in Afghanistan that's the future.