A real and united Afghanistan better than beeing slave of anyone

[NokiaWnW]

A real and united Afghanistan better than beeing slave of anyone. How can we achieve it without to provoke any party? Or how can we disarm all parties (NA, Taliban, Haqqani, Hisbi Islami ...) and starting from point zero? What would be your advice?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

A real and united Afghanistan better than beeing slave of anyone. How can we achieve it without to provoke any party? Or how can we disarm all parties (NA, Taliban, Haqqani, Hisbi Islami ...) and starting from point zero? What would be your advice?

Meritocracy, respect, understanding of eachother's cultures and histories, and tolerance of differences to a reasonable consensus limit. Respect between rural and urban groups is paramount. Not being forced at the barrell end of a gun to accept NATOs governance philosophies. All this is easily said by folks who are comfortable enough to not be in a survival mode mentality. One example of how the Prophet Muhammad made bonds of friendship between the Quraysh tribals and the Yathrib tribals was to bind them in a brotherhood. Perhaps tribal leaders from disparate tribal and ethnic groups and their children can learn to understand others from other ethnic groups with slightly different religious and cultural ideologies and become a brotherhood of sorts. Naive, I know. Bottom line is that its the responsibility of those that stayed and never left... everyone else should let them solve their differences and be well wishers.

[Khostai]

Pashtunization of entire Afghanistan, our ancestors have faild to instal one culture, look at Iran and neighbours they are all have one national language one culture, thats way they are so united, and they also have difrent ethnicities but still there is one dominant culture and language, Afghanistan must do that to, then we can be united and love our country, Being Tajik Pashtun or Hazar will become less segnificant becuase everyone will call them selfs Afghan. If our kings did that 200 years ago we will be not so divided right now.

[DaMalakandGhar]

Meritocracy, respect, understanding of eachother's cultures and histories, and tolerance of differences to a reasonable consensus limit. Respect between rural and urban groups is paramount. Not being forced at the barrell end of a gun to accept NATOs governance philosophies. All this is easily said by folks who are comfortable enough to not be in a survival mode mentality. One example of how the Prophet Muhammad made bonds of friendship between the Quraysh tribals and the Yathrib tribals was to bind them in a brotherhood. Perhaps tribal leaders from disparate tribal and ethnic groups and their children can learn to understand others from other ethnic groups with slightly different religious and cultural ideologies and become a brotherhood of sorts. Naive, I know. Bottom line is that its the responsibility of those that stayed and never left... everyone else should let them solve their differences and be well wishers.

Ahhh these supra-Islamicist utopian ideas----Subsequently, after the death of the prophet (PBUH), the beduine Arabs revolted and the Quraishi nobility subdued them with the sharp edge of the sword. Arabs to this day value their Arab pride more than any Pan-Islamist utopia (although they will use Pan-Islamist utopia for their politics).

And how can Afghanistan be insulated from the influence and intervention of foreign powers foremost Pakistan and Arabs ---but you don''t have any problem with that ---so much for Mr pragmatist.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Ahhh these supra-Islamicist utopian ideas----Subsequently, after the death of the prophet (PBUH), the beduine Arabs revolted and the Quraishi nobility subdued them with the sharp edge of the sword. Arabs to this day value their Arab pride more than any Pan-Islamist utopia (although they will use Pan-Islamist utopia for their politics).

And how can Afghanistan be insulated from the influence and intervention of foreign powers foremost Pakistan and Arabs ---but you don''t have any problem with that ---so much for Mr pragmatist.

Despite the fact that you have a mountain from Malakand in your possession, it does not seem to have added to your abilities of either instrospection or outward analysis.

First, your history is severely off. Did you actually read what I wrote or did you reflexively attack simply because you saw the word Muhammad? The tribes of Yathrib had two tribes: Aws and Khazraj tribes and the Meccans were predominantly Quraysh tribals. This has nothing to do with Bedouins. In fact the approach Muhammad (S) took towards the outward lying tribes was different than the Medinan approach. On arrival to Medina, various local tribals took in particular Quraysh and brotherhood bonds were forged between rival aws and khazraaj. They were also galvanized to fight together against a common enemy subsequently.

You are also vaguely alluding to the Rida wars. Had you actually a knowledge of the discussions and the intricate history of the meetings between Abu Bakr and other disciples of the Prophet, you would have approached your discussion with a bit more humility instead of simply doing your typical: they are all sand monkeys approach to analyzing actions of the time. The Quraysh advisers actually tried to stay Abu Bakr's hand and institute a federal approach and ease the tribes into the centralized Medinan state. Abu Bakr refused and, in a manner mirroring Lincoln's, with far less blood spilled, centralized the Medinan state and was actually combined traits of both Lincon and Washington in defining the ideal Khalifa (i.e. his election, his stance on interpretation, his centralization of the state).

You see Toramana, I've studied you. You have a Pakistani syndrome of sorts: the advocacy of party politics. The unfortunate aspect of this is that party politics can elevate but it can also blind. So for instance, a wounded warrior like John Kerry in democratic eyes becomes a liberal band aid baby in Republican eyes. His message is lost in this sort of reflexive stereotyping. In this same way, what we know for sure about your Awami National Party, based on researching its history is that its platform is based on a reflexive abhorrence of any and all things related to religion. It is actually like a mentally retarded version of American politics. Whereas the secular democratic party in the US has adapted and discussed, for instance, the topic of social obligations versus religious freedoms in a respectfult one, the Awami Nationalists lose their brain power when they hear any religious terminology and erect a wide filter against all reasonable thought. The opposite end of the coin per my studies are the Jamiaati Pashtuns who abhor any hint of reasonable Pashtun nationalism because they associate that with an anti Islamist ploy. Both of you are blind to compromise to the point where you have rendered the discussion moot and absurd.

Muhammad deserves the same respect by any secular analyst, for leadership and military accomplishments as one would afford Constantine, Bar Kochba, or modern leaders. Simply dismissing his approach wholecloth is as idiotic as assuming that one could replicate his or Alexander's era. In this vein, two concepts unite the disparate Afghan groups ranging from shiite Hazara to sunni Pashtun and sunni Nuristani. One is the confines of a national state, which the Karzai government has failed to centralize and implement. The other is a common religious motif. There is absolutely nothing wrong with supplementing the two concepts.

Rather, one might surmise that it is your foolishness in assuming that:
1) A people who have never practiced the form of secularism that you claim existed (i.e. every Pashtun girl was Angelina Jolie and every Pashtun guy was Brad Pitt waiting to meet in the moon light for love by the Helmand river)
2) A people that have their own tribalistic local laws and implementation by khans and strong men
3) A people that have proven historically to reject impositions by all sorts of outsiders, especially the type that are white and Christian

would somehow recreate American democracy and military prowess in a span of 10 years of occupation.

That is what I call an idiot's Utopia.

Take off the Red Tin Foil hat and start to think for yourself. If Pakistani is an instigatory and interfering state then ANP is the head of the spear.

[IamDZJ]

the war in afghanistan is due to it's people speaking different languages?? yeah, i will agree with that but it's not the matter of dari or pashtu, it's something else. we have been deranged from ourselves. the basic definition of a human being no longer applies to us. what will we see in each other?

[Admin Khan]

Pashtunization of entire Afghanistan, our ancestors have faild to instal one culture, look at Iran and neighbours they are all have one national language one culture, thats way they are so united, and they also have difrent ethnicities but still there is one dominant culture and language, Afghanistan must do that to, then we can be united and love our country, Being Tajik Pashtun or Hazar will become less segnificant becuase everyone will call them selfs Afghan. If our kings did that 200 years ago we will be not so divided right now.

Pashtunization of Afghanistan might sound plausible, but how do you expect the minorities to accept your proposition?

[R3SISTANC3]

Pashtunization of entire Afghanistan, our ancestors have faild to instal one culture, look at Iran and neighbours they are all have one national language one culture, thats way they are so united, and they also have difrent ethnicities but still there is one dominant culture and language, Afghanistan must do that to, then we can be united and love our country, Being Tajik Pashtun or Hazar will become less segnificant becuase everyone will call them selfs Afghan. If our kings did that 200 years ago we will be not so divided right now.

No, Pashtunization of Afghanistan is not a noble or good cause. You will not want Pajabification of Pashtuns in Khyber Pashtunkhwa would you? You wouldn't like that. Your ancestors didnt fail you but your elders of the recent pass have. That happened because they became powerful and lazy. There was no great Farsiwan conspiracy rather the irresponsibility of the Pashtun elite and aristocracy that lead to such a situation.

Try to Pashtunize Afghan today will result in bloodbaths. If you want to see a peaceful, thriving Afghanistan keep such ideas to yourself.

[Khostai]

You silly peopel, pashtunization of Afghanistan can be achived by giving all the lessons in the country in Pashtu in schools and Univercitys but dari can be a second languages but the books must be written in pashtu, on tv, radio and goverment offices everything must be told in Pashtu only if the guy don't understand they can get a dari forms. We don't have to forbid other languages we must make Pashtu number one and the rest as secondary. Now it cost really a lot of money to make the same books in to difrent languages it would be much easier if we had one and also cheaper.
And punjabization of pashtuns in Pakistan is totaly difrent thing, we are majority in Afghanistan and its our right to promote our language and culture, in Pakistan that is not the case, and by the way the majority of Pashtuins in Pakistan are punjabized or became wahabist only tiny minority have kept Pashtun culture.....

[Afghanistan2010]

This is not part of Islam and we afghans and as even pashtun i can't accept it to enslave some of the people,because we are all the sons of Adam(a.s) and the one is not better as the other except in their imaan (beliefs).

[abassinafghan]

we need a saviour with a strong independent will, whose only concern is the well being of the afghan people .

with a lot of cash and a sword .

our people are corrupted by rishwat chori which they learned from pakistani origins .

those who dont follow by their own intelligence , should be bribed , and those who dont want to follow should be punished .

some one who dont hide behind qaumiat or religion , but whose acts speak for them selfes .


how many times are we here in discussions , talking about religion , and what kind of good muslims this or that person is .. so his acts as a politician must be also good , after all he is a muslim ...

the politics some one make , the perspective some one take on certain positions , are influenced by his socialisation . so his religion plays a role in his decision but not the only role !!!!

and people should start to realize this , and dont start to say " yes but thats not the real thing , if he were a real ... "

which human can actually judge if some one is a real or good muslim and who not ??? well i dont know any human can do so . but that is what we do today judging people by their suppossed piousness not by their acts .

let alone a leader is measured by different qualities , than your mullah judge you by your fullfilment of your religious duties .


our diversity is our biggest weak point as our biggest potential .


and i strongly emphaszise that all people should have a certain understanding of pashto as dari .

there are procentual more pashtuns who speak dari than tajiks/uzbeks/turkmens /hazaras and the rest who speaks pashto , thats a fact no one can denie.

and certain facists even take pride in it , by saying its not worth learning !!!

This is not part of Islam and we afghans and as even pashtun i can't accept it to enslave some of the people,because we are all the sons of Adam(a.s) and the one is not better as the other except in their imaan (beliefs).

and this noble attitude which is spread among our people lead , that some people believe they are superior in their language as in their culture .

just look at this forum , kabulzada( tajik facists) or the arabs who came here and tell us blunt how we should live our lifes or how our society should look like mean while telling us , that they dont have to learn our language or show interesst in our culture , let alone respect !!!!


or did you have seen any country on earth where the locals are suppossed to learn the language of the visitors or immigrants ???


ahmad shah massouds grandfather was a mohajir from taschkent or smarkand but he still failed to talk one of his speechs in pashto !!! he failed to learn it !!! or more obvious he didnt want to learn it !!!!

all because of this attitude .


there is nothing wrong in nationalism , as long it dont lead to facism .

but this should be not an excuse of prefering others over our own people , because of muslim-muslim -brother -brother , talk .


i like dr. bachardost alot and so do alot of pashtuns , because not only his political views are appealing , but also because he made the effort to speak pashto and dari . not because he was forced , but because he understood the impact it has got on the people !!!

and this is for me very important , every state employee should speak both languages .


our neighbouring countries dont want us to come to peace , they will always skip fuel into the fire , so we are divided , on the name of political orientation , on the name of ethnicity or on the name of religion !!!

this has to stop ...

[randolph85]

pashtunization hasn't even helped pashtuns, how would it help non pashtuns? it was people who implemented pashtunization initiatives in afg like abdur rahman khan who were some of the biggest sellouts.

pashtuns have to show something for being pashtun, an example of honesty, deen, prosperity, strength, and education. right now, and for the last 30 years especially, no non pashtun has had any incentive to act or live like a pashtun.

lets fix our own house before we offer to fix other peoples homes. its like westerners trying to preach womens rights to muslims when their women are bottom feeding ***** for the most part.

[Khostai]

How is it bad to spread our language and culture in OUR OWN COUNTRY. I know why Pashto is secondary language in Afghanistan, it's becuase peopel like you don't want to spread or promote Pashtu, is it becuase you are ashamed of it? We don't have to forbid talking is Dari or other languages but we must make Pashto as the official and the most important language, I am really happy that in Khost Kandahar and Jalalabad univercities everything is taught in Pashtu, they also made Pashto lessons available in Herat and Kabul univercities.
And I think if a non pashtun tries to talk whith you in Dari you schould always respong in PAshtu if they still don't talk in Pashtu then speak English or nothing at all.
That's what I always do, I never speak this imposed Imigrants Language, and every pashtun who does it is a beghairat ghulam.

[Amir al Ghaznavi]

The known world was reciting persian poetry 700 yrs before pir roshan created a pashto script. There is no comparison between these 2 languages

To build pashto you must build pashtuns and pashtun society. People embrace languages if theres an incentive, by force they detest it

[NokiaWnW]

Pashtunization of entire Afghanistan, our ancestors have faild to instal one culture, look at Iran and neighbours they are all have one national language one culture, thats way they are so united, and they also have difrent ethnicities but still there is one dominant culture and language, Afghanistan must do that to, then we can be united and love our country, Being Tajik Pashtun or Hazar will become less segnificant becuase everyone will call them selfs Afghan. If our kings did that 200 years ago we will be not so divided right now.

Pashtunization??? You don´t see the past wars? Pashtunization was part of it. Why not Hazarisation or Farsisation or Pashaiization? Pashtuns can not impose their identity and language on non-Pashtuns. One thing is the non-Pashtun language and culture, mainly Farsiwans and Hazaras, are superiour to minority languages like Pashto, Uzbeki, Pashayee, Turkmani. The kings of the past had buy the loyality of regions and people were kept on stage by mullahs who had close ties to the king. That way did not work and does not work. With Pashtunization you just ask for another war. Barakzai wrote a very good advice.