Why US/NATO doesn't capture Mullah Umar?

[Catya Sher]

Regarding the cameo pics purported to be the Great Mullah himself -
look:
number 3 is completely a different tribesman !
The last 4 or so are not even close
Some of the others are debatable but only number 1 seems sure,
I think off hand.
There used to be a TV show "To TELL THE TRUTH"
Contestants assessed 3 people who all presented themselves
as So-and-So.
The person who guessed WHO was the REAL So-and-So
by clever questioning won the program.

It was maybe the only GOOD Tv show on...besides Get Smart !
Anyway I always guessed the right one easily.

I guess we will find out eventually which is the REAL Mullah Omar [h.a.]

[Catya Sher]

Regarding the very idea
of O.b. L. making a CONFESSION ??!
Surely that was sheer propaganda distributed by the
ALL THE USUAL SUSPECTS !
Don't be taken in by clever forgeries.

In fact, he stated CLEARLY THE OPPOSITE.

Here is the document to support that, which appeared recently
in an article by insider Gordon Duff.
One of his trillions of intelligence sources must have coughed up this
revealing document.

It RINGS 100% TRUE to exactly what I would imagine O.b.L.
to have remarked at that hour. Here is Gordon Duff's commentary:

<B>"Osama bin Laden reported that 9/11 was an inside job before his death, confirmed through the highest sources, December 13, 2001. This is the official CIA transcript of that report:

CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY FOREIGN BROADCASTING INTERNATIONAL SERVICE:

</B>

FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY


Website of Doha Al-Jazirah Satellite Channel Television in Arabic [FBIS Report] Website of Doha Al-Jazirah Satellite Channel Television in Arabic,independent television station financed by the Qatari Government, which can be accessedat URL: http://www.aljazeera.net, carries at 2011 GMT on 24 September the text of the following letter by Usama Bin Ladin “to the Pakistani people.”

• “We hope that these brothers would be the first martyrs in Islam’s battle in this age against the new Jewish crusade that is being led by the biggest crusader, Bush, under the banner of the cross. This battle is one of Islam’s immortal battles.”
• “We beseech God to grant him victory against the forces of infidelity and arrogance, and to crush the new crusader-Jewish campaign on the land of Pakistan and Afghanistan.”
• “I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States.”
• “Neither I had any knowledge of these attacks nor I consider the killing of innocent women, children, and other humans as an appreciable act. . Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children, and other people. Such a practice is forbidden ever in the course of a battle.”
• “All that is going on in Palestine for the last 11 months is sufficient to call the wrath of God upon the United States and Israel.”
• “Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the US Government has stated.
• “The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the US system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive.”
• “They can be any one, from Russia to Israel and from India to Serbia.”
• “Then you cannot forget the American Jews, who are annoyed with President Bush ever since the elections in Florida and want to avenge him.”
• “Then there are intelligence agencies in the US, which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year. This [funding issue] was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these (FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY 180) agencies has been in danger. They needed an enemy. So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taliban and then this incident happened.”
• “Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the US secret agencies. These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished. The people in the US Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget. General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat.”
• “President Bush or any other US President, they cannot bring Israel to justice for its human rights abuses or to hold it accountable for such crimes. What is this? Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United Sates? That secret government must be asked as to who made the attacks.”
• “Supporting the US act is the need of some Muslim countries and the compulsion of others. However, they should think as to what will remain of their religious and moral position if they support the attack of the Christians and the Jews on a Muslim country like Afghanistan.”
• “I have already said that we are not hostile to the United States. We are against the system, which makes other nations slaves of the United States, or forces them to mortgage their political and economic freedom.”
• “This system is totally in control of the American Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States. It is simply that the American people are themselves the slaves of the Jews and are forced to live according to the principles and laws laid by them. So, the punishment should reach Israel.”
• ”The Western media is unleashing such a baseless propaganda, which make us surprise but it reflects on what is in their hearts and gradually they themselves become captive of this propaganda. They become afraid of it and begin to cause harm to themselves.”
• “Terror is the most dreaded weapon in modern age and the Western media is mercilessly using it against its own people. It can add fear and helplessness in the psyche of the people of Europe and the United States. It means that what the enemies of the United States cannot do, its media is doing that. You can understand as to what will be the performance of the nation in a war, which suffers from fear and helplessness.”

FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY END OF OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT

This transcript makes every word said about bin Laden a lie, every news report, every statement by our presidents and congress, if they lie about this, what else do they lie about? It gets worse, much worse"

[faye]

these are excepts from a newspaper interview osama was said to have given the karachi UMMAT on 28th september 2001. that is where i first read about it.
the interview there is more comprehensive.

[badmash_khel]

Answer to question posed in the title of the thread :

Mullah Omar has NOT been captured
because :
HE IS UNDER HEAVENLY PROTECTION !

That's all that needs to be said.

Didn't know ISI were God's soldiers

sorry about the language, I confused you with someone else.

the taliban are fighting their own battle, they are using weapons that have been left over from the soviet days and they are using weapons they buy from the ANA. most weapons are primitive. 98% of the fighters are afghan so this claim of your that man power is foriegn has to be backed up with sources. I need sources for your claim.


the US does have a problem with the taliban because of the points you made. the problem is that the taliban can not dissapear because they are vital to pakistani and the Sunni arabs interests. destroying the taliban is like destroying the pakistani state and have Arabia ruled by Shias. the irony is that the taliban is like a frankenstein for the sunni arab states because the taliban do support groups that would want to overthrow those arab states regimes. its either deal with nuesances that want to overthrow you or deal with a much stronger Iran that can destroy the arab regimes. its one of those "damned if they do or damned if they dont" scenerio.


im not seeing any interest for the US to have omar hotak stay alive. i dont think they can find him.

As you said, saudi and pak are supporting Talibs and supplying weapons and financial support is part of that support. How long can those bullets last left over from the Russian war? The new IEDs (improvised explosive devices) and other new techniques are all thaught to Taliban by foreigners. I am not disputing majority of the fighters are Afghans but you can't deny the presence of foreign fighters. According to Ahmad Rashid "3 thousand pakistanis were part of Taliban assault on Mazar e Sharif in 1998". Besides pakistanis there are also arab, uzbek, and many other nationalities fighting alongside Taliban and they have given their allegiance to mullah Omar.

At least Northern alliance don't have iranians and indians fighting directly for them.

Well I don't know if you’ve ever read my previous posts. I had a long back and forth explaining the Taliban setup and organization, nevertheless, I'll keep it short, here goes:

The Afghan Taliban (AT) began as a grassroots. pan-Pashtun vigilante movement in Afghanistan, which subsequently grew into an organized party. Eventually other Mujahideen era leaders from all ethnic groups began joining it, albeit for a short period. This was probably because of the ethnic imbalance in favor of the Pashtuns, and also the heavy presence of pak intelligence. All the Talib training "academies" and "recruitment centers" (code for Madrassa) were on the pakistan side of the border, who-bearing in mind their "strategic depth" policy- were obviously going to malign the other ethnic groups.

When NATO invaded, the AT was scattered and AQ (reason why they went in) was dismantled, except for a few who crossed the Durand with the AT. Now there is a lot of evidence that suggests that the AT were going to give up OBL, except the only stumbling block was that should they give him up, they'd lose international legitimacy in the eyes of the only other two states (Saudi Arabia and UAE), except pakistan, which recognized them.

Well OBL and his cohorts made it along the border. Members of the ISI and pak army would use them as bargaining chips against the AT or NATO. Of course, when they took their leaders and sent them to secret military sites (OBL), they left a vacuum among the followers who instantly retaliated against the pakistani state. This forced the pakistanis to operate in FATA, which in turn led to the creation of the TTP(I won't go through all the specific events; if you want you can check my other posts).

The AT, contrary to popular perception, is not a uniform and defined unit. Instead it comprises of different warlords and factions (Haqqani, Bittani, , who may not even care about the pakistanis, but appreciate the aid and cover.

Now dux of the AT, Molla Omar, had close links with the intelligence leaders in the pak military. He got the refuge he wanted. What he didn't take into account was that the he would also eventually become a bargaining chip to be used by the pakistani military against NATO. But what the pakistanis underestimated was the willingness of the AT to escape from under their banner and seek negotiations, entering the political fray of Afghanistan as a legitimate party.

The Americans made the mistake of maligning the Pashtuns, and labeling them as Taliban sympathizers, but immediately sought to rectify it after leaders such as Ghani Baradar (killed by the ISI) initiated a line of communication in a bid to come to a settlement. (Not to mention NATO overestimated itself)

Now to answer the question, why the US hasn’t taken out Omar like they did OBL? Well, primarily because the top brass in the pak army was not responsible for giving OBL cover. (I go through the pak army structure in some of my previous posts as well). Intel officers, no higher than Colonel with extremely fundamentalist leanings were responsible. While in Omar’s case, the top brass is very much aware and keep tabs on him 24/7. But that’s only one of the reasons why the US won’t take him out.

The other happens to be the heavy presence of AT leaders, members and sympathizers openly yet secretly (know what I mean) embedded in the Afghan mainstream. Should they take out Omar, all the progress done with these individuals so far would be immediately reversed, thus derailing the Afghan peace process and reigniting the highly likely prospect of another civil war.

I hope that helps.

Intresting analysis. I agree with most of it. Only time will tell the reasons of US not catching him.

The reason why they can't get Mullah Omar is simply because, they can't. There is no magic cave where he is hiding. Fact remains no one know what he looks like. He can walk into a bazar, sell tomatoes there the whole day, and you wouldn't know. OBL couldn't do that. Most Taliban leaders are unknown, there are no images of them, no DNA to compare with, they have extended local and familial connections. The are locals to the region. There have been fugitives in America hiding in the American wilderness among their local kin escaping the law for decades.

Identity confirmed. He was killed.


Now you can go google Mullah Omar, you get a dozen possible looks.

Many people have seen mullah Omar and know exactly what he looks like including 2 westerners. Pakistani journalist Rahimullah Yusufzai has personally met mullah Omar and so have many others in ISI. This can not be the reason, give these people and former Taliban some money and they will tell you exactly which one is Omar.

[Afghanistan2010]

I sometimes imagine him walking down the streets of Kabul,going to the mosque at prayer times,selling something during the day,leading operations during the night.

This man said in his interview during the assault of the terrorists Americans and their allies with BBC : When he was questioned how many provinces he had under his control,he replied chilling : It is not about how many provinces we have under control on oneday it will be 20 on the other all,but it is a long task and we are well prepared it will take time but we will be successful.


Ala ina NasraAllahi Qareeb : The victory of Allah the most high is very near.

[Ghundal]

What a retarded thread?

Do you also think that satellites can see into your rooms when you are studying for exams?

Take a break from watching Shia Lebouf movies

[badmash_khel]

What a retarded thread?

Do you also think that satellites can see into your rooms when you are studying for exams?

Take a break from watching Shia Lebouf movies

No sattelites are needed when we have ISI and Pakistani army to tell us where he is. Just like Osama bin Laden, ISI knows where he is. You must be a fool if you believe he can hide in Pakistan for so long without ISI and paksitani establishment help. Mullah Omar has many friends and sympathizers in the ISI and pakistani establishment and somebody they might sell him out as traitors always do. What was bin Laden doing in Abbotabad, next to pakistani army headquarters? Even Taliban have confirmed bin laden was there so you can't deny this one.

Just like Catya you believe he is mulah Omar is gaurded by heavnly protection as well? lol what idiocracy.

[Ghundal]

What the heck r u talking about?

Shut up, I'm not talking to you. Get your head checked
Go and put that Tin foil hat on

[badmash_khel]

[Breshna]

Possible Mullah Omar, these are all "verified" news images of him.


















Which one should they look for? How do they know they got the right how, who do they compare him to, to what? Do they have his DNA?

How did they... make so.. many..images of him?



^Who is...this...?

[khushal]

As you said, saudi and pak are supporting Talibs and supplying weapons and financial support is part of that support. How long can those bullets last left over from the Russian war?

well, this is what the nytimes reports, weapons of pre WW2 era are being used against the superpower
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...an-gun-locker/
and this report says that they are buyig weapons from former warlords:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/LA26Df04.html

The new IEDs (improvised explosive devices) and other new techniques are all thaught to Taliban by foreigners. I am not disputing majority of the fighters are Afghans but you can't deny the presence of foreign fighters.

According to special forces that have fought in Iraq and afghanistan have said the iraqis could not adapt thier fighting tactics agaisnt US forces, but that afghans on the other hand do adapt very quickly.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news..._ieds_060310w/
the washington times reports that the afghans even adapt on thier use of EIDs which the iraqis failed at.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ings/?page=all

you cant just keep blabbering nonsense, you must provide sources to back up what you claim.

According to Ahmad Rashid "3 thousand pakistanis were part of Taliban assault on Mazar e Sharif in 1998". Besides pakistanis there are also arab, uzbek, and many other nationalities fighting alongside Taliban and they have given their allegiance to mullah Omar.

At least Northern alliance don't have iranians and indians fighting directly for them.

you are guilty of what in logic is referred to as a red herring because you cant win the argument:
a red herring fallacy is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic.

we are talking about this current conflict between NATO and the taliban. you are wrong on the mazari sharif assault too but start another thread about it and I will answer you on that thread.

[badmash_khel]

well, this is what the nytimes reports, weapons of pre WW2 era are being used against the superpower
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...an-gun-locker/
and this report says that they are buyig weapons from former warlords:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/LA26Df04.html

Khushal, the case you mentioned is just one example and inside the article it says that its rare to find such old weapons used by Taliban outside helmand. So infact the article is saying Taliban use mainly AK47 and RPGs. I never denied that they use Russian weapons. I don't know why you assumed otherwise. Its a fact the Pakistani and Saudi provide financial support to Taliban, do I really need to provide sources for that? You said yourself that Saudi and Pakistan do provide support, pakistan for strategic depth and Saudi to counter Iranian influence. Saudi has cut the support since september 11 2001 due to American pressure but as soon as US/NATO leaves it will start supporting Talibs again if Talibs are not made part of the the system of future Afghanistan.

Pakistan supporting Taliban sources:

Pakistan is actively supporting the Taliban insurgency. Afghan Taliban officials live in Pakistan right next door to ISI, that's Pakistan's intelligence service - right next to their offices. And again, we've heard this before and we further denied again today by Pakistan

http://www.npr.org/2012/02/01/146188101/reports-pakistan-supports-taliban-insurgency

Taliban, with Pakistan’s blessing, are preparing to retake control of Afghanistan after Nato-led forces withdraw.

http://www.express.co.uk/ourcomments/view/299494/Pakistan-treachery-means-we-must-quit-Afghanistan

According to special forces that have fought in Iraq and afghanistan have said the iraqis could not adapt thier fighting tactics agaisnt US forces, but that afghans on the other hand do adapt very quickly.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news..._ieds_060310w/
the washington times reports that the afghans even adapt on thier use of EIDs which the iraqis failed at.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ings/?page=all

According to bomb disposal expert Chris Hunter

"The expertise for this new generation of bombs is likely to be coming from foreign fighters from places such as Chechnya,"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/taliban-make-undetectable-bombs-out-of-wood-1863353.html

So according to this article, although Taliban could make IEDs before, the new and effective IEDs are copied from foreign elements.

you cant just keep blabbering nonsense, you must provide sources to back up what you claim.

you are guilty of what in logic is referred to as a red herring because you cant win the argument:
a red herring fallacy is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic.

we are talking about this current conflict between NATO and the taliban. you are wrong on the mazari sharif assault too but start another thread about it and I will answer you on that thread.

Old events are related to current conflict. What makes you think that pakistani madrasa students who supported Taliban and would fight for them wouldn't fight now?

C. Mil Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud Captured Pakistani Taliban & Army Personnel in Afghanistan 1997 - YouTube

What are these pakistanis doing in Afghanistan?

Taliban 'invite' 10,000 Uzbeks to Helmand

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1546626/Taliban-invite-10000-Uzbeks-to-Helmand.html

There are countless youtube videos showing arabs, turks and germans giving allegiance to mullah Omar and carrying out suicide attacks. here are only a few.

German mujahid
A Message for Mother From a Mujahid (German Mujahid) [1/2] - YouTube

arabs fighters

Wind Of Paradise 2 in High Quality 2-5 -Jannat ki KhushBooh - YouTube

&#x202b;ريـــــØ* الجــــنة 4 Winds of Paradise 4 3&#x202c;&lrm; - YouTube

arab and pakistani fighters attack in Zabul province.
Wind Of Paradise 2 in High Quality 5-5 -Jannat ki KhushBooh - YouTube


turkish fighters

TÜrk Taliban ABD ÜssÜne saldırdı - YouTube


This is just some of the videos.

[badmash_khel]

Out of curiosity, who is the speaker in this video?

&#x202b;الملا Ù…Ø*مد عمر وهو يخطب بجنود طالبان مقطع نادر&#x202c;&lrm; - YouTube

[khushal]

@badmash kheil,
the arab videos you post are propaganda videos of AQ which are designed to increase recruitment. Even the CIA admits that there are less than 100 AQ people present in the whole country.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/presid...ory?id=9227861

The Uzbek story can not be corraborated by independent sources and is likely untrue since it would be impossible to move that many fighters in Afghanistan without being bombed to smithereenes. Have you not forgotten 8000 taliban fighters who were trapped in the north during 2001 and had no choice but to surrender because they could not move around and that was during the time when NATO was not present on the ground but only above the ground.

The pakistani fighters you mention are FATA pashtuns who consider themselves afghan. FATA pashtuns have always come to the aid and fought along side their brothers east of the durand during the soviet war and during the british wars. Afghanistan who does not accept the durand line can't call them pakistani.

The taliban main support from pakistan is not financial nor weaponery but sanctuary. Afghanistan is littered with weapons and the ANA is more than willing to sell it to their future foe. The communists used to say "the capitalist is so greedy that he would sell the rope that he himself would be hanged with. to the executioner"

[ComradePashtun]

What you guys also miss is that conventional basic weapons such as rusty AK47s and shoulder rockets are not even the weapons of choice and efficacy in the transformed Taliban warfare against their superior enemy which they prefer to less engage in pitch battles. In fact 90% of the international troops' casualties have been as a result of IEDs and road side bombs. Apparently it cost them peanuts to make one and takes them less effort to plant one with maximum impact. All they do is stuff ammonium nitrate in a pressure cooker looking shyt and wire them from a camouflaged or hidden point.