Split Discussion: Arabs

[Karachi]

al arab is about to explode lol. his weakness is he can't a civil argument with out labeling people kaffirs, racist etc...

in fact he is the one who is most racist and creates sectarian divide

[Karachi]

[QUOTE=Karachi;573498]

Stupid generalization. I bet you now 2-3 Arabs from each of those countries who have mentioned. Do you know Maroccon Arabs, Omani Arabs, Iraqi Arabs? Strange logic from you.

Normal Gulf Arabs are the same as every other Arab. Share the same culture, are Arabs, speak the same language etc. They just happen to live in an different area.

Yes, because you can judge a population of 40 million (Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar) based on a few years in Eastern Saudi Arabia years ago as you yourself have told.

Western media don't like any Arabs, from Marocco or Oman. That does not matter for them. And everyone know your stance of Arabs and your hatred for them. Strange when you are basically an Indian Muslim from Pakistan....

lol are you trying to insult me calling me indian lol? shows how racist you are, even pakistan was founded by indian muslims for the most part

also I have lived in saudi for close to 15 years, I know what I am talking about, and in fact it is a known fact for many people who have lived in the gulf or have come in contact with the locals there, some are nice yes, but most are just hypocritical and racist who think they are better than others.

In fact you remind me of them, your behavior is exactly the same

[al-arab]

Since when has it become racist to call people what they are? You are an Indian Muhajir. You people were converted by the Muslim rulers of India and Arabs. What is racist about this? Has it now become racist to call people what they are? Should I not call people here Pashtuns because it is racist? Wake up.

Me racist? That must be the biggest joke of the century. I have never been racist towards any race on this forum. You can't find a single post of mind were I am racist towards any race. In fact I have even made it clear that I have nothing against Jews but only Zionists.

You have never been able to find quotes of me.

But you on the other hand has wished Pashtuns to be bombed (brother Graveyardofempires have quoted your messages as well as Bengali-Tiger) and your constant hate for Arabs is also visible everywhere. Also in this thread where you generalize all Gulf Arabs. In fact you are just an plain and simple kafir who is becoming 30 years and still acts like a teenager who try to provoke people by talking badly about Islam and other races.

Yes, because you, an Indian and foreginer talked with many locals and especially who understood everything as a child....

You even told me that you only know the Eastern parts of Saudi Arabia but you forgot that most people live in Hijaz.....

I find hard to take your seriously.

Unlike you I have ancestry (among others) from Hijaz and I am married to an local woman (who happens to have Hijaz ancestry as well, among others) and I have lived in Saudi Arabia for the last 6 years. Studied, meet people in Masjids, meet respectable scholars, helped locals in Makkah during Hajj and talked with many foreginers (non-Arabs) and their thoughts about Saudi Arabia people.

What did your parents do in Saudi Arabia? Maybe your parents where just like you, hating Arabs and just used Saudi Arabia to earn bigger money than in Pakistan/India. Maybe they, as I am sure the same is case with you, did not meld with Arabs but stayed with their own and only saw Saudi Arabia as an transit country.

I know many of that kind. They usually have an inferior complex towards Arabs and hate us for no reason despite them living in our countries and getting payed.

Maybe you are one of those ungrateful. As I told you once before. If you hate Arabs don't visit Arabs and stay in Pakistan or India.

Maybe you should also stop being Muslim, reading the Holy Quran and distance yourself from Arabic influences. Maybe you should become Hindu like your ancestors.

To use the same stupid argument like you. You remind me of those ungrateful foreginers.

Faye:

Please quote what you claim. Read my two first posts to Soldat and his replies. Where do I generalize. I know Soldat's kind of people. They usually suffer from an inferior complex towards westerness and treat them like Gods. Some Arabs suffer from the same disease especially here in Saudi Arabia. That is why he is renounce his Pashtun heritage and culture and hate everything that has something to do with Islam or Arabs. I feel pity for him.

Brother Manzareh wrote an excellent message that describe Soldat-Communist and his schizophrenic personality and lias.

[Karachi]

^ you are racist, the biggest racist in fact, you even fail to recognize how bad south asian workers are treated in your countries, they are like slaves. They build the country for you and you treat them like animals. If you dont see the obvious things happening that you are racist and are part of the problem

and yes I am a urdu speaking Muhajir from just across the border (Delhi). my parents have been in pakistan for 65 years, they were born there in fact, so not sure what the hell is problem? I know you are trying to be racist there, but it wont work

bombing pashtuns??? weird, you can never find such qoute by me, must be in you filthy imagination.

[al-arab]

^ you are racist, the biggest racist in fact, you even fail recognize how bad south asian workers are treated in your countries, they are like slaves. They build the country for you and you treat them like animals. If you dont see the obvious things happening that you are racist and are part of the problem

and yes I am a urdu speaking Muhajir from just across the border (Delhi). my parents have been in pakistan for 65 years, they were born there in fact, so not sure what the hell is problem? I know you are trying to be racist there, but it wont work

Yes, me not witnessing the lies you make in Hijaz makes me an racist. Great logic. So if I am an racist based on that what are you then?

A kafir who wish the destruction of Pashtun people, hates Arabs and Islam?

And another great and long reply from you. Maybe you should just exit this discussions since you are only replying with 1 or two sentences as always. You are never able to provide any proof like I an others have done with you in the form of quotations nor are you able to answer my simple questions.

You ancestors were Indians who converted to Islam. Fact. Do you feel ashamed of that since you claim to be indigenous to your great Pakistan despite beeing an Muhajir in Pakistan? Do you even know what Muhajir means? Yes, migrant.

Is that why you escaped from Pakistan and now live in Canada?

Why don't you answer my questions as always? What are you hiding?

[tor_khan]

Salaam Al Arab,

Thank you for showing patience. On the whole, Pashtuns are not anti-Arab. As part of our Pashtunwali we extend Melmastiya to our guests. I have lived with Arabs from all over and count both ends of the Arab world - Morocco and Oman amongst my favourite places of visit. You would be welcome in my home any time; to have you as my guest would be both my duty and honour.

I was glad that you and Soldat appeared to be reaching some common ground - and I think that despite the subsequent exchanges in this thread - common ground does exist. For example, I would go even so far as to say I have seen more commonality with the manner in which Pashtuns have similarities to Arabs than they have to Hindustani Muslims.

The problem appears to stem from taking crude stereotypes of people and pasting them all over which I think we are ready to do too easily. Iraqis and Afghans have suffered greatly over the past and there is no need to glorify violent acts against other humans. If Soldat appears to have done that, then we quite rightly should distance ourselves from that.

It is perfectly reasonable to state that Pashtuns can be Muslim without the need to follow violent ideologies. The Arab presence in Afghanistan is as old as Islam there and the early Arabs melted into Pashtun society and adopted Pashtunwali. Recent history may have altered this perception slightly with some and there is a body of opinion that holds that Arab militancy, financed and supported by Saudi and others in the region is one of the contributing factors that has led to destabilisation in the region. There may be more than an element of truth to this though of course it doesn't speak for the majority of Arabs who have never been to Afghanistan or Pakistan and nor does it mean that every Pashtun who is frank about who is sourcing the militancy, anti Arab or anti Muslim.

[Karachi]

Yes, me not witnessing the lies you make in Hijaz makes me an racist. Great logic. So if I am an racist based on that what are you then?

A kafir who wish the destruction of Pashtun people, hates Arabs and Islam?

And another great and long reply from you. Maybe you should just exit this discussions since you are only replying with 1 or two sentences as always. You are never able to provide any proof like I an others have done with you in the form of quotations nor are you able to answer my simple questions.

You ancestors were Indians who converted to Islam. Fact. Do you feel ashamed of that since you claim to be indigenous to your great Pakistan despite beeing an Muhajir in Pakistan? Do you even know what Muhajir means? Yes, migrant.

Is that why you escaped from Pakistan and now live in Canada?

Why don't you answer my questions as always? What are you hiding?

no i dont feel ashamed, how is that insulting anyways? even your ancestors arabs were worshiping idols. I know you are trying hard to be racist, but it doesn't work on me.

[al-arab]

Karachi:

I also don't understand why you always comment my messages and write nonsense about Arabs? Where have i wrote bad thinks about Mujahir people or Indians? You are an hypocrite you claim that I have done x and x but you are not even able to proof that because you know that it is not truth.

How difficult can it be to find an quote of me being an racist?

Everyone on this forum know that I have been most against racists. Just ask the moderators. From the very first post of mind in this forum. I was constantly targeted by anti-Arab writings from several users (many of them turned out to be trolls) and I have repeatedly make quotations from the Holy Quran about the subject of racism and how it is completely unaccetable in Islam. Despite this you dare to call me an racist.

Also I have ancestry from Saudi Arabia, Syria, Caucasus (Circaussian) etc. For me to be racist I would contradict my inner beliefs and myself because I am myself and mix (although in vast majority an Arab but still).

Everytime we have an discussion you can only reply with 2 sentences. This shows that you have not much to say other than fantasy on nonsense.

I urge you yet again to back your claims of.

Just in this thread alone you have generalized and called all Gulf Arabs for bad people. You are an plain idiot, I am sorry to say this. I will not tolerate this since I myself have Saudi Arabian ancestry and my wife as well among others.

You think you can come here and claim people did that without backing it up. You have provoked me on many occasions.

And when people point out that you said that Arabs were filthy idiots and wanted the destruction of Pashtuns who come up with excuses that you did not mean that etc.

People would believe you if you was not racist all the time towards Arabs. Half of your posts are about how bad Arabs are. Just like Soldat-Communist.

You both generalize. I don't understand how you are allowed to do that. Imagine if I did the same with Indians or even Jews. Or Americans.

Even in the atheist thread I wrote yesterday that now all atheists are bad people even though I am strongly against their ideology and will sorry for them.

I will ignore you for the future if you do not change.

Also, faye please show me where I have generalized in this thread.

[al-arab]

no i dont feel ashamed, how is that insulting anyways? even your ancestors arabs were worshiping idiols. I know you are trying hard to be racist, but it doesn't work on me.

Yes, some did and some were Christians and Jews. And have I claimed that they have not?

Unlike you I do not claim to be Pakistani and is a nationalist even though I am an foreigner in Pakistan. Even your name, Muhajir means immigrant. You are from India not Pakistan. You try to hide that it seems.

Unlike you I am extremely proud of my heritage, culture, religion, costumes and I would never look down upon them as you and your atheist friends do on your own and always praise Western culture.

Yes, Arab or Muslim culture is not perfect and I have never claimed that it is. But I would not betray it as you have done and do with yours and talk badly about it.

That is also the reason why I defend Muslims and Arabs from people like you who talk extremely badly about them without knowing the people or visiting more than a few Arab countries.

What is wrong with you is that you generalize just like in this thread where you called every Gulf Arabs for evil although you sad some are nice. Ridicules statement and that just show how little you have changed since your comments about the destruction of Pashtuns, the superiority of Pakistan, how good Muslim country Pakistan is and how bad Afghanistan is and other nonsense you have written.

Bengali-Tiger wrote very good posts to you in that discussion. Sadly good posters like him are gone because types like you who destroy discussions with your racism.

I even remember that you called Bangladesh insignifcant and said that you as an Indian have nothing in common with them.

Last time I checked there lives millions of Bengalis in India....

But as always you must know better. Like in the Iraq thread where you talk nonsense for the sake of it without having enough knowledge to speak about aspects you know nothing about.

Your recent comment about Shias being easy targets in Iraq, despite ruling the country by their puppet government and killing MANY MORE Sunnis in Iraq just shows how clueless you are.

We haven nothing more to discuss and you can just save yourself your 2 line replies to this message.

[Ghundal]

There were Arab fighters who fought against the Soviets as there were Arabs and others who fought the Serbs, however, it was not to the degree where it was significant.

These conflicts have mostly just involved Afghans, and then specifically Pashtuns, regardless of outside influence.

The point is wherever there is occupation, there will always be reactionary "militancy."

Research by many professors verifies this

[Karachi]

Yes, some did and some were Christians and Jews. And have I claimed that they have not?

Unlike you I do not claim to be Pakistani and is a nationalist even though I am an foreigner in Pakistan. Even your name, Muhajir means immigrant. You are from India not Pakistan. You try to hide that it seems.

Unlike you I am extremely proud of my heritage, culture, religion, costumes and I would never look down upon them as you and your atheist friends do on your own and always praise Western culture.

Yes, Arab or Muslim culture is not perfect and I have never claimed that it is. But I would not betray it as you have done and do with yours and talk badly about it.

That is also the reason why I defend Muslims and Arabs from people like you who talk extremely badly about them without knowing the people or visiting more than a few Arab countries.

What is wrong with you is that you generalize just like in this thread where you called every Gulf Arabs for evil although you sad some are nice. Ridicules statement and that just show how little you have changed since your comments about the destruction of Pashtuns, the superiority of Pakistan, how good Muslim country Pakistan is and how bad Afghanistan is and other nonsense you have written.

Bengali-Tiger wrote very good posts to you in that discussion. Sadly good posters like him are gone because types like you who destroy discussions with your racism.

I even remember that you called Bangladesh insignifcant and said that you as an Indian have nothing in common with them.

Last time I checked there lives millions of Bengalis in India....

But as always you must know better. Like in the Iraq thread where you talk nonsense for the sake of it without having enough knowledge to speak about aspects you know nothing about.

Your recent comment about Shias being easy targets in Iraq, despite ruling the country by their puppet government and killing MANY MORE Sunnis in Iraq just shows how clueless you are.

We haven nothing more to discuss and you can just save yourself your 2 line replies to this message.

if that was true, why would i write about my background in the first post? I clearly said i am a urduspeaker: http://www.pashtunforums.com/new-mem...rothers-12697/

^ i am not hiding anything, so not sure what are you talking about, but that said, I am a pakistani national, not a indian national, I dont have indian nationality

[faye]

ok. since you don't appear to be very self aware or capable of revision of your own comments.
karachi says= i don't hate arabs
al-arab then proceeds to say= and everyone knows your stance on arabs and hatred for them.
do you continue to harass karachi because GOE commends it? GOE harasses all the members with connections to pakistan on the forum, who don't totally agree with everything he says.

[al-arab]

Salaam Al Arab,

Thank you for showing patience. On the whole, Pashtuns are not anti-Arab. As part of our Pashtunwali we extend Melmastiya to our guests. I have lived with Arabs from all over and count both ends of the Arab world - Morocco and Oman amongst my favourite places of visit. You would be welcome in my home any time; to have you as my guest would be both my duty and honour.

I was glad that you and Soldat appeared to be reaching some common ground - and I think that despite the subsequent exchanges in this thread - common ground does exist. For example, I would go even so far as to say I have seen more commonality with the manner in which Pashtuns have similarities to Arabs than they have to Hindustani Muslims.

The problem appears to stem from taking crude stereotypes of people and pasting them all over which I think we are ready to do too easily. Iraqis and Afghans have suffered greatly over the past and there is no need to glorify violent acts against other humans. If Soldat appears to have done that, then we quite rightly should distance ourselves from that.

It is perfectly reasonable to state that Pashtuns can be Muslim without the need to follow violent ideologies. The Arab presence in Afghanistan is as old as Islam there and the early Arabs melted into Pashtun society and adopted Pashtunwali. Recent history may have altered this perception slightly with some and there is a body of opinion that holds that Arab militancy, financed and supported by Saudi and others in the region is one of the contributing factors that has led to destabilisation in the region. There may be more than an element of truth to this though of course it doesn't speak for the majority of Arabs who have never been to Afghanistan or Pakistan and nor does it mean that every Pashtun who is frank about who is sourcing the militancy, anti Arab or anti Muslim.

Thank you very much brother tor-khan.

I can only say the same about any Pashtun. I would welcome him with opens arms like our Arab culture dictates. In fact we have more similarities than differences although some people (I will not mention names) try to portray Arabs like terrorists living in the dessert and primitive). I feel, without having been in Afghanistan than the common Arab man and Pashtun man are very much similar and share many similar views, have similar culture from the religion, costumes, scripture, food to even apperance.

I have already apologized several times on behalf of misguided Arabs who have commited crimes against Afghans (frankly I must admit that I have not heard of such things but I might be an ignorant on this matter).

But unfortunately Soldats second reply was not what I hoped. Instead of trying to discuss the differences (who can say how long a message I made as an reply) I got no reply only two short messages about how barbaric Arabs are and how great it was for Tajiks to kill Arabs and put dollars in their mouth (again this story I don't know but I might be an iignorant but everyone know Soldats history towards Arabs)

I was the one who found out that he has made his claim up in the two articles he refers to in this thread (about Islamist Arabs or what he called the two articles). Later scimitar verifyed that.

So this is the kind of type of man I face in discussion. I agree that I may have been very strongly against atheism and communism but this is only because I am saddened that they leave Islam and that I cannot understand how an Pashtun can support and totalitarian ideology like communism who have millions of deaths on it's hands. Just 2,5 million in Afghanistan alone. I will never understand this but I am a human and not perfect. I might be wrong, I might now have lived in Western countries and my English is not as good as Soldats etc. But I simply disagree and I do not feel that their preaching has convinced me of how bad our religion, culture, people are and how great Western societies are.

I saw how great western societies was when I landed in Copenhagen and was checked for 10 minutes just because I had an long Arab name and Arabic appearance.

Yes, it makes me angry what I am accused of supporting killings of civilian Shias by Karachi when I have never said such a think. Yes, I have condemned the puppet government that is mainly ruled by Shias now (because the Sunnis have boycotted it in large parts) because I know which atrocities they have commited. I also know that the violence is not the key. I even wrote in my latest post about the bombings in Iraq yesterday, that it is the blame of politicians and the civilians are paying the price.

This is also the view of ordinary Iraqis be it Shias or Sunnis or Kurds.

Yes, I agree completely with your last sentence. That is my point exactly. Why all this generalizing.

Brother you know very well that I have been an critic of Arabs as well on many occasions from the dictators, to the "royal" families, to the attitudes of some Arabs, to those Arabs who want to become Western and afterwards hate on everything that has to do with Islam or Arab culture. I have said such things many times. I have even criticized my own country on many occasions.

Despite this I am pictured by Karachi, Soldat etc. as an racist.

If they could find and single quote of me being racist towards them I would leave this forum right now.

I also remember that I have written to you thor-khan on the subject of racism on the forum, when it was on it's highest and this was not only about Arabs but about how Muslims should treat each other with respect despite coming from different backgrounds like the Holy Quran and our religion dictates.

Unfortunately some people have become angry on certain users and no matter what they write they will always be negative towards them and even if it requires to lie they will do it to appear better and to make the other part like the bad one.

[Ghundal]

Getting back to the discussion after derailment by Karachi, Soldat, and Faye,

I will add that Arabs and other Muslims were welcomed into Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. There is no mystery or controversy about this. The Afghans were already resisting the Soviets. It was not like non Afghan Muslims came and started the resistance.

Hence, research (dr. Pape, Schuer) indicates that what is termed militancy is a simple reaction to occupation.

It was not like Afghans were going to tolerate occupation.

Aside from the French, I don't know which nation tolerates occupation.

[Karachi]

ok. since you don't appear to be very self aware or capable of revision of your own comments.
karachi says= i don't hate arabs
al-arab then proceeds to say= and everyone knows your stance on arabs and hatred for them.
do you continue to harass karachi because GOE commends it? GOE harasses all the members with connections to pakistan on the forum, who don't totally agree with everything he says.

true, some people are trying really hard to put words in my mouth that I am not even saying.

I will admit that I have said some judgmental things about gulf arabs, but that mainly comes from the experiences I and many people I know have had with them. In fact there are even news paper articles about this I can bring forward

^but again even after that, I am also at the same time saying, that there are good people among them also