Split Discussion: Arabs

[al-arab]

Look guys most of our people learn Arabic from a young age and still never understand what they are reading however we learn English too but most of us understand it very well.

Roman script is worldwide, so its in our interests to adopt it to make speaking and understanding our language but easier.

Arabic Script is too out-dated.

Can I ask you something Soldat?

Have you ever been to an Arab country? What is your hate towards Arab based on? That they spread Islam and Arabic culture in many parts of the world? That the vast majority are Muslims? Is it because we are Semitic peoples?

What is your personal reason to hate an people that compromize 350-400 million of the worlds population?

Have you ever meet a real Arab? An Arab that was born in an Arab country and grow up in an Arab country?

I don't expect you to answer but at least I can try.

[Soldat_Amir]

Split Discussion: Arabs in Afghanistan

Can I ask you something Soldat?

Have you ever been to an Arab country? What is your hate towards Arab based on? That they spread Islam and Arabic culture in many parts of the world? That the vast majority are Muslims? Is it because we are Semitic peoples?

What is your personal reason to hate an people that compromize 350-400 million of the worlds population?

Have you ever meet a real Arab? An Arab that was born in an Arab country and grow up in an Arab country?

I don't expect you to answer but at least I can try.

Sorry Al Arab I happen to have spent four years in Islamic Grammer school that was funded by a Saudi.

Al Arab....I don't dislike Arabs, some of the guys at the Seesha cafe I attend now and then, are Arabs from Lebenon, and they are great people, very secular, very intelligent, then I bump into some Arabs from Saudi, and they are very cold and big headed.

I am not a biased nor am I a generaliser, but if your home has been flooded with Arabs in dresses and strapped with RPGs and AK47's I am sure you would understand.

My dislike for Arabs does not stem from them being an Arab, my dislike is for "Militant Arabs" , the same way I dislike "Militant Uzbeks" "Militant Tajiks" and "Militant Pashtuns".

I am sorry if you feel I am abit racist but I am just a simple mountain Pashtun who wants to see roads, buildings, peace and my people equal, not Madrassahs(suicide ones), foreigners spewing fear on the locals and bigots who are by essence social rejects in their own native region.

The same way you Arabs fought against Ottomon empire I too want to fight against Al Qaida and others from the Middle East who wish to spare their own regions from the miseries and problems associated with war.

[al-arab]

Those Arabs you criticize came to Afghanistan to fight fight and for their Muslim brothers in Afghanistan and to help them win a war against and totalitarian state (USSR) who decided to invade Afghanistan and stay there for 10 years and killed 2,5 million civilian Afghans.

You call them introducers but my understanding of the Pashtuns I have meet in the Middle East are that they are greatful for the support.

I must admit that I have never been in Afghanistan so I cannot tell if some Arabs caused problems. My Arabic sources say that there are very few Arabs left in Afghanistan and those who are left do not fight the local populations but the invadors.

I see that you often use the argument that Saudi Arabia financed fighters and is financining extremists (as you call them). This is done with the blessing and support of USA. They, USA, were also the ones who made it possible for Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to support the Mujahideen. In fact Al-Qaeda is an American construction. Pakistan played an regional role as well and adopted much of the same policy as Saudi Arabia.

I am sure that both those countries (Saudi Arabia and Pakistan) unfortunately have done harm for Afghans on some cases, for that I apologize, but the main problem in all this is USA who used Afghanistan as a battlefield to make the USSR collapse much as USSR tried to do the same against USA in Vietnam.

From your reply I can conclude that you have yet to visit the Middle East but I am sure that you would change your view of Arabs if you visted normal regular people.

People are all the same we should not have races. We can hate policies and countries (for their government) but I have felt that you always generalized when speaking about Arabs and forgot that Arabs did good things in Afghanistan centuries before the Afghan-Soviet war started.

I also see that you always look down upon Islamic cultures. But I would urge you to read about the Islamic Golden Age (under the Abbasid Caliphate based in Baghdad) and compare that to Europe at the same time.
Also have Christians treated Jews in Europe in comparison to Arabs.

You must also understand that although Arabs are the same people, Arabic countries can differ from each other due to geography, the politics and history of the country.

You often talk about Saudi Arabia but 100-50 year ago there lived only 3 milion Beduins on Saudi Arabias territory and they were very peaceful people. They never invaded other countries or wanted to rule the world like many other people tried to at that time.

Yes on many aspects Saudi Arabia is not a good state (this is more a critic of the rulers) but overall the people are very welcoming and not the stereotype the West tries to create.

I know that Pashtuns have suffered and suffer from stereotypes as well in the West so for that reason, if I where you, would try to visit the country and people before judging a whole nation.

But because you are an atheist I understand why you are not happy with Arab influence or the Arab heritage in Afghanistan but believe or not there are also Christian Arabs and atheist Arabs, secular Arabs, communist Arabs, liberal Arabs etc. Just like in every other race.

Yes, the Western media has tried to demonize us Arabs for reasons that may be understandable from their point of view (9/11 attack) but to generalize as the majority do in the West is potentially very dangerous.

Also people forget who created much of the problems we still suffer from in the Arab world. The West. Just like their creation of Al-Qaeda they have also created non-religous problems that have a say in our politics, economy etc. Much like in many other Muslim countries.

I am in Europe right now, Denmark, but when I arrived here in the airport I was checked for 10 minutes, asked what I should do here etc. while other passangers, that were non Arabs, just passed before me. Just because I had a long Arabic name and Arabic appearance.

But I am glad that you do not hate Arabs and know good Arab people. We are not the demons many people want to make us although our puppet leaders are very bad representatives of us.

[Ghundal]

Soldat is doing the usual, and you Al-Arab have accepted his half-truths.

Not that many Arabs even came to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets, and the ones who did in fact contributed not much to the defeat of the Soviet Union. In fact, research indicates that the few Arabs that did fight the Soviet Union had not worthy fighting skills at all because they were so eager to run towards death.

Even now, the facts refute Soldat's words, as Dr. Pape's research (University of Chicago) reveals the majority of Afghan insurgency today is Afghan, meaning attributed to Afghan nationals. There is little to no foreign Muslims present in Afghanistan

These are the facts that can not be refuted.

[Karachi]

I dont hate arabs, especially from Lebenon, Egypt, Syria, Yemen etc....

But saudis/gulf arabs is who I find to be very hypocritical and this is why I always criticize them on this forum, I have never criticized any other arabs, except gulf arabs

^ and even among them I agree there might be some nice people, but their over all impression is not nice at all world wide.

[khushal]

Those Arabs you criticize came to Afghanistan to fight fight and for their Muslim brothers in Afghanistan and to help them win a war against and totalitarian state (USSR) who decided to invade Afghanistan and stay there for 10 years and killed 2,5 million civilian Afghans.

The arabs did not come to afghansitan to help fight the soviets, if that was the case you actually need help fighting the Israelis and there are numerous foreign military bases on arab soil. The Arabs namely the Palistinians(azzam and gang) that did come to Afghanistan came becasue there was no place left for them, they were kicked out of Jordan and went to Lebonon adn when the Israelis invaded Lebonon, they were kicked out of there as well. No Arab country wanted the Unlucky Palistinians and so they went to Afghanistan and pakistan to train and to organize their fight against Israel. Most ARabs that came to Afghansitan did not know how to fight, they were trained mostly in PAkistan in the 80's and majahadeen bases inside Afghanistan. Most of the Arabs were doing laundry for the few rich arabs in Peshawar.

The Arabs were there to get training and a place to organize and the Afghans and pakistanis got much needed money in exchange.

[Soldat_Amir]

Those Arabs who came to Afghanistan brutalised the people and killed Afghan government soldiers. Nobody invited them besides CIA and the ISI. Read my articles for more detail.

Arabs like to post themselves as heroes we have tasted their presence in Pakhtunkhwa and Afghanistan with suicide bombing, public executions and their savagery.

I don't want to argue more my stance is quite clear. You did the same in Balkans too but Bosnians were smart and booted the Arabs out quickly before they settled and started to spread their retarded ways.

[Soldat_Amir]

When the Northern Alliance Kabul the Afghan people expressed their love for the Arabs by chopping them into pieces and shuffing dollars into their mouths. Only the sell out Pashtuns would protect and shelter a fugitive and look what happened. Every Country hates Pashtuns due to their association with the backward barbaric and savages of the Arab world.

If you love those "Afghan Arabs" so much then go and shelter them in your own Arab countries, go fight Israel, stop blowing ur self in Afghanistan.

[Ghundal]

Buddy,

Now your just simply lying in the face of the facts.

Afghans did not accept or tolerate the foreign and unwanted ideology of the Soviets nor did they tolerate the illegal government

Your assertions are all refuted by Dr. Pape's research which attributes Afghan insurgency as Afghan centric

Buddy, wake up and smell the coffee (noticed you were stealing this line of mine as well as overusing the word meddling)

Use your own vocabulary

[al-arab]

I dont hate arabs, especially from Lebenon, Egypt, Syria, Yemen etc....

But saudis/gulf arabs is who I find to be very hypocritical and this is why I always criticize them on this forum, I have never criticized any other arabs, except gulf arabs

^ and even among them I agree there might be some nice people, but their over all impression is not nice at all world wide.

Stupid generalization. I bet you now 2-3 Arabs from each of those countries who have mentioned. Do you know Maroccon Arabs, Omani Arabs, Iraqi Arabs? Strange logic from you.

Normal Gulf Arabs are the same as every other Arab. Share the same culture, are Arabs, speak the same language etc. They just happen to live in an different area.

Yes, because you can judge a population of 40 million (Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE, Qatar) based on a few years in Eastern Saudi Arabia years ago as you yourself have told.

Western media don't like any Arabs, from Marocco or Oman. That does not matter for them. And everyone know your stance of Arabs and your hatred for them. Strange when you are basically an Indian Muslim from Pakistan....

Ghundal:

I disagree. There were a lot of Arabs in Afghanistan who fought succesfully against Soviets. There were many famous Mujahideens who had entirely Arab Mujahideen groups. I think there was many thousand during the 10 years.

Also the wealthy Arabs financied the operations against the soviets together with backing from CIA.

But I agree, the majority were locals, everything else would be strange. Just like 98 percent of the Iraqi insurgency was from Iraq and 98 percent of the Palestinian intifadas were Palestinians.

Khushal:

So all the thousands of Mujahideen who came to Afghanistan came for sightseeing under the Afghan-Soviet war? It is well known that Arabs played a key role for the financing in the war but not in the manner Soldat want to exaggerate.

Soldat:

Those Arabs who came to Afghanistan did not come because USA said so (riducules claim) but because it is our duty. In fact the biggest numbers of foreginers came from Arab countries in the Ummah.

With all due respect. Arabs have no plans with Afghanistan. We have ressources ourselves and a very enormous lands (from Morrocco to Oman) It is not Pakistan we are talking about who has a political interest in Afghanistan.

You know very well that the presence of Arabs in Afghanistan today is almost non-existent. I have discussed this with you several times and I have provided links while you have not been able to do so. Even your fellow Pashtuns here have always agreed with me.

The Arab presence was clear in the Afghan-Soviet war which I was talking about. Not now.

Bosnia? I think we discussed this as well.

Bosnians are greatly for us because we helped them to defeat the Serbians who killed them for fun. Remember Srebrenica? Almost everyone left and today there live only around 500 who all have Bosnian passports (issued by the Bosnian government as a gift for their defence of Bosnians) and who mostly have intermarried with local Bosnians.

I can't believe that you are criticizing people who faught against tyrants who killed civilians for fun and established the first and latest concentration camps since the WW2.

But well, I guess your claim of not hating all Arabs was a lie.

I also can see that you have not replied to my message.

[al-arab]

When the Northern Alliance Kabul the Afghan people expressed their love for the Arabs by chopping them into pieces and shuffing dollars into their mouths. Only the sell out Pashtuns would protect and shelter a fugitive and look what happened. Every Country hates Pashtuns due to their association with the backward barbaric and savages of the Arab world.

If you love those "Afghan Arabs" so much then go and shelter them in your own Arab countries, go fight Israel, stop blowing ur self in Afghanistan.

You really are an racist kafir and idiot. I thought for a second that you could stop generalizing. I hope one day that you meet and pious Arab who will be aware of your hatred for Islam and Arabs.

Maybe you should open your eyes and see how much Arabs influenced Pashtun culture in virtually every aspect from religion and down to culture (those two things are related) from scripture to believe to food etc.

[al-arab]

Actually this discussion should be deleted because my intention was not to start an discussion about Arabs but I simply asked an question to Soldat why he hated Arabs so much and constantly wrote negative things. There are more important things to discuss than race.

A more important issue could be why there are born Muslims who become atheists and communists like Soldat and what we can do to save them from hellfire. I never see anything positive from them. Always hatred for Islam, laughing at their own culture, wanting to implement foreing culture and irradicate their own cultures etc.

Sad. May Almighty Allah Guide them in the right patch, ameen. I have tried to do my dua as is a duty for us Muslims for him and the atheits on this forum but it has been for no gain. Also other brothers and sisters have tried. I don't know what their intentions are if not to divide us and make Islam look bad.

How can this be tolerated on a Pashtun forum? Also the insults toward grother GraveyardofEmpire? Did he leave forum? What happened with the user who threatened his entire family with death?

[faye]

ahab, instead of being 'the human lie detector' on pashtun forums, perhaps you should be concentrating on healing the rift between sunni and shia. if the westerners have been able to manipulate arabs it would most probably be, because of this division. it is ironic to me, that mohommad speaks of unity and stupid human beings proceed to create disunity as soon as he dies. i sometimes wonder why these wise prophets even bothered to waste their time.

[al-arab]

ahab, instead of being 'the human lie detector' on pashtun forums, perhaps you should be concentrating on healing the rift between sunni and shia. if the westerners have been able to manipulate arabs it would most probably be, because of this division. it is ironic to me, that mohommad speaks of unity and stupid human beings proceed to create disunity as soon as he dies. i sometimes wonder why these wise prophets even bothered to waste their time.

Ahab? "The human lie detector"?

What are you now talking about?

Our Prophet's name is spelled Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

The rift can only be healed by leaders. The relation with common people is normal and my only problem is with Shia leaders of my country and other's. Not normal people.

Yes, because you expected that every human being would be an pious Muslim and never do evil? We are all sinners. Only Almighty Allah is free of sins.

But since you seem to criticize me for trying to reach out to Soldat and afterwards is meet with racism, then we have nothing to discuss when you at the same time don't comment on Soldats world known nonsense on this forum.

Try and read this thread again.

[faye]

try and read your own comments again and see where you also lie and generalise.
i have often commented to soldat, so stop lying.