'Secret Pakistan' Exposed in BBC Documentary

[Admin Khan]

Supporting the Taliban is not only ruining their Afghan friendships, but the world.

They deny everything, and 'bhai, bhai' the way out of a problem. It's a well established fact that Pakistan supported, recognized, and funded the Taliban. Now think why?

Why would Pakistan risk being invaded (which it does have a chance, in the near future), by their support of the Taliban?

There are different types of invasion. A full scale, military invasion, similar to Iraq or Afghanistan might never happen. However, it's derivative is already to taking place. Pakistan is invaded by many countries, without realizing it.

Always remember, the US thinks 10 steps ahead of a rag-tag government like Pakistan's. They have prestigious universities, and think-tanks formulating each chess move, although in a very discreet manner.

Maybe it's wishful thinking by me, or Pakistan isnt smart.

Pakistan sold it's self, to allow Afghanistan to be bombarded through Karachi, for her own strategic interest. That's Islam for the government. In my opinion, Pakistan doesn't give a darn about Pashtunkhwa/Waziristan. Had it slightly cared, they could've implemented a solution to prevent the problems. Instead, they initiated factories of you know what type.

[Soldat_Amir]

They deny everything, and 'bhai, bhai' the way out of a problem. It's a well established fact that Pakistan supported, recognized, and funded the Taliban. Now think why?

They denied the killers in the Mumbai Massacre were Pakistanis, until it was discovered they were Punjabis from Pakistan as one of them was caught alive. Pakistan supported the Taliban right from the start, as other factions of the Islamic alliance were looking elsewhere for funding, as Pakistan was unreliable, Pakistan looked for an alternative, and Col imam, Babar, Col Faizan and co, drew up a strategy, which was to recruit the madrassah students, and invent the Taliban.

There are different types of invasion. A full scale, military invasion, similar to Iraq or Afghanistan might never happen. However, it's derivative is already to taking place. Pakistan is invaded by many countries, without realizing it.

Afghanistan was not hit by a full scale invasion, otherwise there would have been nothing left, Pakistan opened the door to American meddling in the region since its creation, and found the opportunity to

1)Divide Afghanistan
2)Get weapons to fight India

Nato forces have already started to withdraw in small steps, I wouldnt consider it a full invasion too, otherwise, the locals would have been displaced and we would be seeing American citizens everywhere. American went there, because the ISI and Taliban wouldnt hand over their former asset who use Afghan soil for Arab glory.

Always remember, the US thinks 10 steps ahead of a rag-tag government like Pakistan's. They have prestigious universities, and think-tanks formulating each chess move, although in a very discreet manner.

The US, has always had a steady approach towards Pakistan, because they know the outcome if the country goes out of control, especially when those Nukes in the wrong hands, a a country full of fanatics/lunatics led by even those of a Secular mindset, only when it comes to Afghanistan.

Pakistan sold it's self, to allow Afghanistan to be bombarded through Karachi, for her own strategic interest. That's Islam for the government. In my opinion, Pakistan doesn't give a darn about Pashtunkhwa/Waziristan. Had it slightly cared, they could've implemented a solution to prevent the problems. Instead, they initiated factories of you know what type.

Pakistan has one thing in mind, and thats protecting the interests of Pakistan, and securing a strong Punjab. Pakistan has never given a toss about the people of Afghanistan, you ever asked yourself, why the Taliban/Al-qaida, never attack Punjab on the same scale they do to Pakhtunkhwa? Pakistan needs a backward Afghansitan thats under developed and not stable, as the masses would seek their help for their needs, hence controlling them better.

Look what happened when Pakistan army decided to attack Waziristan, they started on the Wazirs first in Wana, after many innocent people were killed, the Taliban moved in, and secured a peace deal with the Pakistani Army, regardless of the mass murder of innocent Wazirs people, and signed off the Shakai peace agreement, and even sipped tea with the Pakistani Generals and the founder of the TTP.

[کیش]

This doesn't make any sense. So Pakistan sold itself to the British and Americans, and they are puppet whos control the Taliban, which are fighting their masters? The Taliban has also been fighting the Pakistani army, why and how is that? The puppet is fighting it's master, while the master still supports their puppets, who is fighting their master? The same master they openly invited?


This seems more like the big foot conspiracy.

A 15 hr attack on a NATO base in Kandahar just ended, 15 hrs after it started. Pakistani training most work wonders

[graveyardofempires]

when truth speaks against these people's wishes they turn to wild fairytales.

one thing is for sure that pakistan is scared that if they go full against taliban that when taliban take over pakistan is ****ed,but in the mean time they wish taliban dont win.

either way ,pakistan is screwd cuz Pashtuns dont like to play games.

and these liars wanna tell us that pashtuns fight and die for paki interests,and they dont mean the FC or other pathans but the ones who are actually fighting the paki government.

[Soldat_Amir]

This doesn't make any sense. So Pakistan sold itself to the British and Americans, and they are puppet whos control the Taliban, which are fighting their masters?

Pakistan has sold itself to many people, but it understands, that it can not defeat nato, and has to follow their rules. Of course they are in control of the Taliban, how can they not be, when they created them in the first place, the same Taliban who hide in Pakistan are not under the supervision of the ISI, your telling me Pakistani Army do not man those check posts at the borders when Taliban flee from Nato? your telling me all those Madrassah kids killed by Nato forces under the Taliban, were never watched over by the ISI in Pakistan. Pakistan is playing a waiting game, when Nato withdraws, you will see their change, Taliban needs Pakistan and Pakistan needs Taliban, both of them are the same face of the same coin.

The Taliban has also been fighting the Pakistani army, why and how is that? The puppet is fighting it's master, while the master still supports their puppets, who is fighting their master? The same master they openly invited?

You need to correct yourself there, the TTP faction led by Baitullah has been fighting the Pakistan Army, other factions have made peace agreements with them, and the Afghan Taliban have never stated they oppose Pakistan army or conducted any action against Pakistan. As a matter of fact, please do watch interviews of faqir mohammad and co, and you will see they have no distaste towards Pakistan.

This seems more like the big foot conspiracy

Conspiracy? like the one that Osama was in Afghanistan all along?

You need to study politics to understand the current situation, and read more about the different factions of the Taliban before you get yourself involved in a very complexed topic.

Most of the Taliban leadership were educated in Paksitani Islamic establihsments, and your telling me the ISI had no role in that?

What about the case of Mullah Baradar, how come the ISI arrested him in Karachi, when he agreed to peace talks with Karzai? why not much earlier?

If you want a dose of reality, please do visit Pakhtunkhwa, meet the IDPS there and ask them yourselves what they think of the current situation, dont rely on Graveyards word of mouth, his sources are the ISI or his ghetto homies down in Hamberg.

Take this article as an example for you to understand how complexed the situation is..........

Pakistani Taliban vows to battle India

By Bill RoggioDecember 23, 2008

Baitullah Mehsud from a recent Taliban video.

The Pakistani Taliban has vowed to back the government in the event of war with India, the leader of the group said yesterday.
In an interview with The News, Baitullah Mehsud said he would to send "thousands of our well-armed militants" and hundreds of suicide bombers to Pakistan's eastern border with India "to fight alongside the army if any war is imposed on Pakistan."
"Our mujahideen would be in the vanguard if fighting broke out," Baitullah said. "Our fighters will fall on the enemy like thunder."
While Baitullah did offer to fight alongside the Pakistani Army, he suggested the Taliban forces be given their own area of operations or be directed to hit specific targets.
Baitullah said a conspiracy was underway to destroy the Pakistani state. "We know very well that the visible and invisible enemies of the country have been planning to weaken this lone Islamic nuclear power," he said. "But the mujahideen will foil all such nefarious designs of our enemies."
He dismissed the notion that the Army and the Taliban could not fight together against the Indians because of the years of fighting in the Northwest Frontier province. "Therefore, I want to make it clear that the army was acting otherwise [against the Taliban]. But now it would fight for the protection and survival of the country, which is why we will support them."
Baitullah's commitment to back the government confirms the policy of the Pakistani military and government of creating "strategic depth" by supporting the Taliban in Afghanistan and a host of Islamist terror groups inside Pakistan and Kashmir. The Pakistanis believe that the terror groups will provide manpower and support in the event of war with India, and that Afghanistan and the mountainous Northwest Frontier Province would serve as an impenetrable fortress in the rear in case of an Indian invasion.
Shortly after the end of the Mumbai terror assault, the Pakistani military reached out to the Taliban and attempted to paper over the fighting in the Northwest Frontier Province and the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.
A senior Pakistani military official called Baitullah and Swat Taliban leader Mullah Fazlullah "patriots" and said the military and the Taliban are clashing due to "some misunderstandings."
"We have no big issues with the militants in FATA [the Federally Administered Tribal Areas]," the official said. "We have only some misunderstandings with Baitullah and Fazlullah. These misunderstandings could be removed through dialogue."
The Pakistani military official was a corps commander, a senior US military intelligence official, who asked not to be named due to the sensitivity of the issue, told The Long War Journal. Pakistan has nine Army corps, each commanded by a lieutenant general.
Tensions between Pakistan and India have risen in the wake of the Mumbai terror assault that shut down the city for three days and killed more than 180 people. India and the United States said that the Lashkar-e-Taiba, one of the largest and most powerful terror groups backed by Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence agency, was behind the attack.
India has not ruled out military action against Pakistan. Indian Air Force fighter planes violated Pakistani airspace last week, and the militaries of both countries have been put on alert. India has demanded Pakistan hand over 20 most wanted terrorists. Pakistan has said it would not extradite anyone to India, opting to try them in Pakistani courts if evidence is presented of their guilt.
Yesterday the Indian government turned over to Pakistan evidence of Pakistani involvement in the Mumbai attacks. The information included an admission of Ajmal Amir Kasab, the only Mumbai terrorist captured alive. Pakistan has dismissed the evidence. President Zardari said there is no proof Kasab is from Pakistan. Kasab's parents, who reside in Pakistan, have confirmed he is indeed their son.

Read more: Pakistani Taliban vows to battle India - The Long War Journal

Can you see how their interests get shifted when both groups favor the same thing. Just like how America is supporting Alqaida in Libya, while fighting them in Iraq and Afghanistan, Pakistan is just the same, Taliban is its proxies and in their interests.

Taliban and Pakistan are the same thing.

Go ask an expert instead of listening to the childish propaganda from Graveyard.

[کیش]

Intriguing response, Amir. What good does supporting the Taliban have on Pakistan? They are crumbling in the eyes of the international community.

Understand politics? Pakistan isn't stupid to support the Taliban when they are under suspicion of helping them out.

I mean conspiracy, like a reptilian shape-shifter. That is how the Pakistan-Taliban alliance works.

[Soldat_Amir]

This doesn't make any sense. So Pakistan sold itself to the British and Americans, and they are puppet whos control the Taliban, which are fighting their masters? The Taliban has also been fighting the Pakistani army, why and how is that? The puppet is fighting it's master, while the master still supports their puppets, who is fighting their master? The same master they openly invited?


This seems more like the big foot conspiracy.

A 15 hr attack on a NATO base in Kandahar just ended, 15 hrs after it started. Pakistani training most work wonders

Intriguing response, Amir. What good does supporting the Taliban have on Pakistan? They are crumbling in the eyes of the international community.

Understand politics? Pakistan isn't stupid to support the Taliban when they are under suspicion of helping them out.

I mean conspiracy, like a reptilian shape-shifter. That is how the Pakistan-Taliban alliance works.

Pakistan will deny its supporting the Taliban till Nato leaves and its interests are returned in intact. Pakistan is clever and smart, Pakistan knows very well how to double deal, one side they are milking the americans and the other side they are supporting them.

The evidence is stacking up against Pakistan. Not only abroad but within its own borders. Take the example of the "Airlift of evil" Pakistan airlifted 1000s of its ISI and associates out of kunduz before the Yanks invaded.

The Afghan Taliban, and especially the Haqqanis, have no ill feelings towards the Pakistanis, they have history together, in regards to the TTP, please refer to my thread on the News section, where I posted a old article, about a meeting of top pak generals with the founder of the Pakistani Taliban, and please do read what he said about his country Pakistan and its army.

Taliban is divided into factions, the TTP is nothing now, they are all split into smaller factions led by different commanders. Mullah Nazeer controls Wana and ahmadzai wazir parts, Gul bahadhur controls his part, Hakeemullah controls South Waziristan Mahsud areas.

The Haqqanis are up in the North of Waziristan and recently moved down to the Kurram region.

Pakistan refuses to conduct any action against the Haqqanis, and the evidence is all over the internet, Pakistan has made many peace agreements with other militant groups and have given them the free hand to operate all over the tribal region.

Also, read about Abdullah Mahsud, his own brother is a Major in the Pakistani Army, he was caught in Afghanistan by Nato/Northern alliance, and released from gitmo, whereby he became commander of the Mehsud Taliban when he returned.

Its a dirty game zma vrora! It will mess with your mind.

All I can say is, If Taliban truely had hatred towards Pakistan from the start, they wouldnt have sent Mullah Zaeef as amabassor there, and neither would they have crossed into Paksitan to train and sell Afghanistan off.

[khushal]

The documentary was about 60 mins. Interestingly for 55 minutes it was what we already know - i.e. that Pakistan has been playing a double game and covertly supporting the Taliban. It also made it clear that the Americans were alerted to this game early on when senior Taliban were airlifted out of Konduz within day of the announced US invasion. See this report datedNovember 2001.

It wasn't until the last 5 minutes that the question of WHY the Americans continue to support Pakistan was flagged up. That unfortunately wasn't really explored and if the journalists who put these documentaries together could get to the heart of this then we can really begin to unpick what the American-Pakistan plan for Afghanistan is. Until then it is absolutely pointless - at this very late stage when the Americans are talking of withdrawal for them to come out and lay the blame of their failures on Pakistan's non-cooperation, because the fact is that the Americans have known all along.

The US was under the impression that the Taliban even supported by Pakistan or anyone else would just be a nuisance and not really a threat to the US installed Afghan Government. They were under the impression that the Afghan people would not really support them in any way and would only have support in remote villages. They thought that a US supported Afghan military would be able to handle any nuisance.

The US strategy then changed to the battle for hearts and minds and had a surge of troops was initiated and that isnt working either. The strategy then shifted to making peace with the Taliban, that didnt work either. So now they are shifting strategy again and are focusing on the support from Pakistan and pressuring Pakistan to pressure the Taliban into laying down their arms and making peace.

they are doing all this while ignoring the main problem and that is the corruption of the Afghan government, the marginalization of the majority of the population, ignoring cultural and religious sensativities, standing by and doing nothing about the poppy growth which is fueling corruption, etc....

[ScimitarXEdge]

Gain territory how? Like USA gained Libya as a territory or how Napoleon used to gain territory? Buffer against India, when Afghanistan isnt as close to India land wise then Pakistan.

they're India's link to Central Asia , gaining territory is hegemonic of course.

[ScimitarXEdge]

This doesn't make any sense. So Pakistan sold itself to the British and Americans, and they are puppet whos control the Taliban, which are fighting their masters? The Taliban has also been fighting the Pakistani army, why and how is that? The puppet is fighting it's master, while the master still supports their puppets, who is fighting their master? The same master they openly invited?


This seems more like the big foot conspiracy.

A 15 hr attack on a NATO base in Kandahar just ended, 15 hrs after it started. Pakistani training most work wonders

Correct, their idea is, who cares if "sada pakhtuns" die if we can gain the upperhand. It's not that complicated.

Taliban fighting the Pakistani Army is inconsequential since 95% of the fighters are Pashtuns from the tribal regions themselves. America sends poor blacks and hispanics and underclass whites to fight and die, and it continues to do so, while the main upper classes remain insulated and safe. Why would't Pakistan?

[khushal]

It's not merely the fact that Pakistan is helping the Taliban that's the problem; it's helping the Taliban ...and was responsible for manufacturing the civil war in Afghanistan, orders the murders of Muslims, specifically Afghans, allows America/NATO/Imperialists to use it's military capacity to murder more Muslims, and does so at the expense of Muslim lives. Which means the Taliban are exploited like pawns along with other afghans for strategic interests which harm them more than benefit.

To most Afghans, the greater evil is NATO because their lives are affected directly by NATO
To most FATA Pashtuns the greater evil is the PAk army because their lives are directly affected by the PAK Army
to most of the other Pakistanis, the greater evil is India because of the effective propaganda by the Pak Army.

so for the moment no one cares about being used, they are focusing on what they think is their own greater evil.

[Talal]

they are doing all this while ignoring the main problem and that is .... the marginalization of the majority of the population

THIS, in my opinion is the biggest blunder of this war..they lost the war the day they choose to marginalize the pashtuns..they had a real opportunity in 2001, instead of throwing in their lot with the NA had they wooed the pashtun majority..the taliban would have finished right there..and Pakistan's entire policy wasn't based on taliban it was based around this point that the marginalization of pashtun will give rise to the Taliban once more..and since they had seen what happened to the Russians they made a choice to support the taliban

[Manzareh]

basically america and britain are going to invade the tribal areas of pakistan so they need to convince the population by means of the media.

[khushal]

THIS, in my opinion is the biggest blunder of this war..they lost the war the day they choose to marginalize the pashtuns..they had a real opportunity in 2001, instead of throwing in their lot with the NA had they wooed the pashtun majority..the taliban would have finished right there..and Pakistan's entire policy wasn't based on taliban it was based around this point that the marginalization of pashtun will give rise to the Taliban once more..and since they had seen what happened to the Russians they made a choice to support the taliban

Exactly, the only reason that Pakistans plan of supporting the Taliban worked in the 90's was because the minority had power in Kabul. Pakistan used the Pashtun resentment against the warlords and put their support behind the Taliban.
The same thing happened when the US invaded. The Pashtuns were marginalized, so Pakistan put their support behind the Taliban again so they could successfully exploit the Pashtun resentment.

Some of the forum members are under the false impression that Pakistan is the culprit, but in reality pakistan is going to do what ever is in their interest and that is to curb Indian influence in Afghanistan. The real culprit is the US arrogance which led them to incompetence.

[کیش]

Correct, their idea is, who cares if "sada pakhtuns" die if we can gain the upperhand. It's not that complicated.

Taliban fighting the Pakistani Army is inconsequential since 95% of the fighters are Pashtuns from the tribal regions themselves. America sends poor blacks and hispanics and underclass whites to fight and die, and it continues to do so, while the main upper classes remain insulated and safe. Why would't Pakistan?

that is where you are wrong. Your getting your sources online, and do not know the realites.

As everybody knows, I am acquainted with a number of people who worked as linguists in Afghanistan. I know someone who served in Kunar/Nuristan, and has survived numerous battles and I mean fighting lasting DAYS. I asked him who are the members of the Taliban? He said the majority are Afghans, then their are some Pakistani's and a little number of Other ethnicities.