American war against Pakistan

[Soldat_Amir]

well, considering the fact that afghans have been bombed for more than 30 years now and still getting bombed everyday thanks to pakistan, i would say no. you have never supported us, so why should we support you. of course i would see punjab getting attacked but at this moment fata=kpk=pakistan. but i rather have it not attacked of course

Galai Sha Bachay, drin sha! not all KPK Pashtuns attack Afghanistan. Not fair at all. Before America attacked Taliban in Afghanistan, there was a conference in Darul Haqqani, hosted by Hamid Gul, General Baig, ISI and a load of Islamic Clerics from Afghanistan, as a matter of fact, alot of students in Darol Haqqania were/still are Afghans.

FATA was one of the only places whereby Afghan refugees were never referred to as Mujjahirs unlike other settled areas where they were mistreated and even exploited.

We are all in the same boat, we are all in the same situation, we both cheated eachother, and turned against one another, tribalism is rampant in our society and so is Radical Wahabism.

I would support an Attack on Waziristan soley on the basis that all citizens are placed in safety, all elements of non pashtuns removed, i.e Punjabis,Chechens, Uzbeks, Sindhis etc by brute force, the Afghan flag placed on top of the Political agents office in Wana, South Waziristan.

Afghanistan and loy Pakhtunkhwa are all one region and place.

Plus Luffy, the Pashtuns from FATA have been treated much worse than any Afghan has ever done, I know this, as I am from there too.

[Talal]

Pakistani tribesmen threaten US with holy war

http://www.thenewage.co.za/30253-1020-53-Pakistani_tribesmen_threaten_US_with_holy_war

Hundreds of Pakistani tribesmen on Tuesday threatened the United States with holy war, lashing out at demands for action against Al-Qaeda-linked Haqqani extremists based in Pakistan.

There is growing unease in Pakistan about US pressure to take on the Haqqani network or face the consequences; with the military saying it is too over-stretched fighting local Taliban to open a new front against a US enemy.

Having accused the network of orchestrating recent attacks on its embassy in Kabul and a NATO base in Afghanistan, with Pakistani intelligence involvement, Washington now says it is considering branding the network a terror group.

Any such move could complicate future efforts to negotiate a settlement in Afghanistan and, given US claims about government ties to the network, risk Pakistan being branded a state sponsor of terror, local analysts warned.

On Tuesday, hundreds of tribesmen gathered in Landikotal, a town on Pakistan's north-western border with Afghanistan, mobilised by religious party Jamaat-e-Islami to protest against the United States.

Waving party flags and wearing ribbons inscribed with Koranic verses, dozens of tribesmen joined the throng armed with Kalashnikovs, an AFP reporter said.

"We announce the holy war against America if they attack Pakistan," Siraj-Ul-Haq, the party's deputy head, told the gathering.

"The whole nation will wage a jihad against America and will fight against them shoulder to shoulder with Pakistani armed forces," Haq added.

JI has no seats in the national assembly, but anti-Americanism is rampant in the country of 167 million, fuelled by beliefs that Islamist militancy is a direct result of the US war in Afghanistan.

Before setting off for Landikotal, the crowd chanted slogans such as "Death to America", Allah Akhbar (God is great) and al-Jihad (holy war).

Although nothing suggests the United States is considering a cross-border incursion, Pakistanis fear action from American ground troops.

The alliance between Pakistan and the United States in the 10-year war in Afghanistan and against Al-Qaeda hit rock bottom this year in the wake of the unilateral American raid that killed Osama bin Laden near Islamabad on May 2.

The Haqqani group was founded by former CIA asset turned Al-Qaeda ally Jalaluddin Haqqani, who was close to Pakistan and the US spy agency during the 1980s anti-Soviet resistance, and its leaders are based in North Waziristan.

Today the United States depends on Pakistan, largely for shipping the bulk of its supplies to the 140,000 US-led foreign troops in landlocked Afghanistan, but also to counter the threat from Islamist militants in the border areas.

On Tuesday, militants in Pakistan set ablaze three tankers carrying fuel for NATO troops in Afghanistan, wounding a driver, officials said.

Four men riding on two motorbikes intercepted the oil tankers in the Dasht area, about 30 kilometres (18 miles) east of the Baluchistan provincial capital Quetta, senior government official Naseebullah Bazai told AFP.

The Taliban took the unusual step Tuesday of insisting that they, not Pakistan, control the Haqqani network and of advising Islamabad to stand firm in the face of "America's two-faced and implacable politics".

"The respected Maulawi Jalaluddin Haqqani (the group's founder) is (one of the) Islamic Emirate's honourable and dignified personalities and receives all guidance for operations from the leader of the Islamic Emirate," it said. Pakistan was historically the Taliban's closest foreign ally.

But local analysts appeared optimistic that the row could be papered over, believing passions were cooling and that the United States would stop short of blacklisting the Haqqanis as a network.

"They can put additional pressure on Pakistan like imposing restrictions on economic assistance but my assessment is that they will not go to that extent," said political and security analyst Hasan Askari.

"The crisis went to its peak and will now come down. Pakistan did not succumb to pressures and the US will not break diplomatic ties," he said.* -AFP


-----------------------

[faye]

so, the big squeeze is off.

[Soldat_Amir]

"mobilised by religious party Jamaat-e-Islami to protest against the United States."

That just really blows this article out of anything close to being serious or amazing. The same party that mobilising people against any laws that allows DNA testing of rape victims, goes to show, what kind of people would be protesting.

Talal, got to give it you, nice try. Always remmeber, this is the same people, who celebrated the killing of Salman taseer and called for the killing of a innocent Pakistani Christian woman.

Inshallah, you will one day convince again, how Radical and irrational Pakistani society truely is.

[retro]

Also I would like to add I feel, Pakistan is pushing America to attack, because it works in to their National interests, If America attacks, Pakistan being the corrupted parasite, would blow the Islamic horn of Jihad, and round up its citizens for national duty.

If I was an American, i would be much smarter, than declaring outright war, just send in a unit of Afghan Kandaks, give them some crappy shwal kameezes designed by some Pakistani clothing firm, give them some demolition gear, and bring the terrorism back to Punjab as revenge, I am sure if they did this, Pakistanis would spend more time blaiming India or blackwater, than accepting the fact that they never learn.

Pakistan has one of the most corrupt and apathetic looking government around and that crowd are completely lost without their little fascist Junta's.

If the Paki Pashtuns enter into a alliance with the the Pakis with a view to 'liberating' Afghanistan. Then NATO can always blockade Pakistan, whilst moving in support of Afghan/Pashtunistan nationalist and Paki separatists elements. What is more, now that NATO has scaled up Afghans national army and the Afghan national police. Kabul have 305,000 police and solders under their control.

[randolph85]

america invade pakistan? and then what?

if america needs to attack a country they can just do it by air. i think they pretty much understand now that regime change is pointless and expensive.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Bill introduced in US House to freeze all aid to Pakistan

NEW YORK - A key American lawmaker from Texas has introduced a resolution in the House of Representative to freeze all US aid to Pakistan.

The House Resolution (No HR 3013), if passed, will freeze all US aid to Pakistan with the exception of funds that are designated to help secure nuclear weapons.

"Since the discovery of Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad, Pakistan has proven to be disloyal, deceptive and a danger to the United States," Congressman Ted Poe said in a statement after tabling the resolution in the House.

"This so-called ally continues to take billions in US aid, while at the same time supports the militants who attack us.

"The United States must immediately freeze all aid to Pakistan," said Poe, who is a member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs.
Pakistan has made it "painfully obvious" that they will continue their policy of "duplicity and deceit" by pretending to be US ally in the war on terror while simultaneously promoting violent extremism, the Congressman said.

According Mike Mullen, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, just this month the Pakistani government supported the groups who were behind both the truck bomb attack that wounded more than 70 US and NATO Troops and the attack on the US Embassy, Poe said.

The resolution has been sent to the house Foreign Affairs Committee for necessary action.

It is only after this key Congressional committee approves the resolution that it will be sent to the House of Representatives.

Notably only a few resolutions enter the House of Representatives.

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2011...d-to-Pakistan/

[faye]

this issue will probably be played with as an election toy.

[Bengal_Tiger]

800 additional U.S. military trainers to be sent to Afghanistan by March


Eight hundred more U.S. military trainers will be sent to Afghanistan by March to help with logistics, maintenance, medical care and other areas in which the Afghan army is short on skills, Lt. Gen. William B. Caldwell, commander of NATO’s training mission there, said Monday.

“That will better help us start getting at some of these specialty skills,” he told reporters in a teleconference from Kabul.

Caldwell said training in these areas was needed to enable Afghan army units to be better prepared to operate without U.S. support by 2014, when American combat troops are scheduled to leave.

Caldwell said that only two of 126 Afghan army battalions are currently operating “by themselves.” But he later said that even those two needed logistics, maintenance, medical and intelligence support. Other battalions operated “very effectively with minimal coalition support,” he said.

He said that training programs once were led by contractors but that Afghans increasingly are taking control. About 3,100 Afghans are assigned to training instruction, and half of those “have been certified through a very deliberate process,” he said.

Caldwell said Afghan police played a key role in protecting civilians during the attack on the U.S. Embassy on Sept. 13.

In another attack that day that was not as well-publicized, a group of students at a high school were saved when an Afghan police officer “did a bear hug around a suicide bomber when he blew himself up and there in the process obviously killed himself,” Caldwell said.

He told of another senior police officer who also ran up to a bomber who got close to Afghan National Civil Order Police headquarters, again giving the assailant a hug as the bomb went off, killing himself but saving the lives of nearby officers.

Caldwell also said that attrition rates within the Afghan military, though higher than desirable, have not kept Afghanistan’s security forces from growing. They are on track to reach 352,000 personnel by 2012.

Literacy remains a problem. But the recruitment of about 3,000 Afghan literacy teachers has eased it somewhat. Caldwell said that about half of all Afghan army and police personnel have gone through the literacy program. Only 18 percent of those currently serving were literate when they joined, he said.

The Afghan security forces program overall costs about $6 billion a year for a country whose government income is estimated at just over $1 billion. Caldwell refused to predict how long it will take for the spending to decrease. He said he is looking for “sources from the international community to help pay for it in the long term,” as well as contributions from the U.S. and Afghan governments.

Caldwell said some savings are already being realized through the purchase of local products. Boots once bought for the Afghan army at $170 a pair from the United States are now bought for less from Afghan factories. A similar approach is being taken when buying uniforms, sheets and pillowcases. The overall savings amount to $168 million a year.

http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/in...howtopic=96047



In Kosova, the US bombed Serbia from the air and used Kosova freedom fighters to liberate Kosova on the ground.

In Afghanistan the US bombed the Taliban and used northern Alliance troops on the ground.

If there is a US v Pakistan war, I see the same use of local surrogate troops including this time the Afghan national army. Americans won't die but Muslims killing Muslims.

Now many of the atheists, kuffar, murtadeen on this forum will get furious with the idea of someone - like me - not wishing to see Muslims die. However sensible people here realize that all such a war will see is the death of more Pashtuns/Muslims, and for what?

The US has essentially micro-nuked a lot of Afghanistan with depleted uranium. In the 1980s it armed both Iran and Iraq to kill each other with 1 million people dying in one of the world's most horrific examples of divide and rule.

I do not care about the corrupt Pakistan army, I do care about the ordinary Pashtuns of Miranshah, Bajaur, Orakzai, Mohmand and so on.

The party which represents the Pakhtoons of Khyber-Pashtunkhwa, the ANP opposes military operations and the loss of Pakhtoon life.

For the naive, the US is a friend of no one except itself. It does not do anything out of the kindness of its heart but for its own self-interest, this is a country which has allowed bachabazi to start happening again in Afghanistan for example. When it arms people, it is not out of love but to use them be they Pakistani/Afghan/South Korean.

[Bengal_Tiger]

India asks Pakistan to destroy 42 operational terror camps


India today asked Pakistan to destroy the 42 terror camps operational there, saying that a resurgent Taliban could be a "security threat" to the country after US forces pull out from Afghanistan.

"There are 42 terror camps which are still operational. We want all of them to be destroyed," Defence Minister A K Antony told reporters on the sidelines of the Coast Guard Commanders' Conference here when asked about India's concerns over the existing terror camps in Pakistan.

In the recent past, reports have suggested that a large number of terrorists are waiting on the other side of the Line of Control (LoC) to infiltrate into Jammu and Kashmir.

To a query on the impact of the pullout by the US forces from Afghanistan in the next couple of years, he said, a resurgent Taliban can be a "security concern for us" after western forces leave the war-torn country.

American troops are scheduled to leave Afghanistan by 2014 and are engaged in the process of building capabilities of the Afghan National Army to enable it to handle security on its own.

http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/in...=160&start=160

[Bengal_Tiger]

3 NATO oil tankers set on fire in Balochistan

QUETTA - At least three NATO oil tankers were set on fire by unidentified armed men in Dasht area on Saturday, officials said.

According to Levies officials, the three oil tankers carrying fuel for NATO forces stationed in Afghanistan were on their way to Kandahar from Karachi when unidentified armed men on motorcycles intercepted the tankers and opened fire at them on the National Highway near Dasht.

As a result, the tankers caught fire and were completely destroyed. The assailants managed to escape from the scene while no one had claimed responsibility for the attack so far.

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/

[Bengal_Tiger]

US drone strike in South Waziristan kill 2 people.

WANA: A US drone strike on a compound near South Waziristan town of Azam Warsak killed at least two people.

According to Express 24/7 correspondent, Iftikhar Firdous, a drone fired two missiles at a compound in Azam Warsak, near the South Waziristan town of Wana which killed at least two people.

He said that while it was not immediately clear how many people had been injured the death of two people had been confirmed by locals however more casualties were feared.

Firdous said that locals had reported sighting drones flying in the area for the past few days, though it was not till today (Tuesday) that it struck.

This is the first drone strike in South Wazirstan since early August, after the Pakistan army completed an operation to drive militants from the tribal area that borders Afghanistan.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakista...aziristan.html

[Bengal_Tiger]

they should have cut the aid long time ago, Pakistani civilians dont even get a penny from that aid, and Pakistan even has to pay it back with interest,

Pakistani poster on US' Congress' proposed bill of ending aid to Pakistan, referring to the corrupt Pakistani politicians that steal the interest-bearing loans called "aid".

[Bengal_Tiger]

NY times article brings up incident of 4 years ago saying Pakistan killed American soldiers in Afghanistan.

from:

Pakistanis Tied to 2007 Border Ambush on Americans
By CARLOTTA GALL
Published: September 26, 2011


KABUL, Afghanistan — A group of American military officers and Afghan officials had just finished a five-hour meeting with their Pakistani hosts in a village schoolhouse settling a border dispute when they were ambushed — by the Pakistanis.

Col. Sher Ahmed Kuchai, the Afghan border guard commander, was in the party that was ambushed by Pakistanis. He and Mr. Rahmat said the American forces' rapid reaction to the attack saved their lives.

An American major was killed and three American officers were wounded, along with their Afghan interpreter, in what fresh accounts from the Afghan and American officers who were there reveal was a complex, calculated assault by a nominal ally. The Pakistanis opened fire on the Americans, who returned fire before escaping in a blood-soaked Black Hawk helicopter.

The attack, in Teri Mangal on May 14, 2007, was kept quiet by Washington, which for much of a decade has seemed to play down or ignore signals that Pakistan would pursue its own interests, or even sometimes behave as an enemy

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/27/wo...pagewanted=all

[Bengal_Tiger]

CIA instigating mutiny in the Pakistani army

By M K Bhadrakumar

The unthinkable is happening. The United States is confronting the Pakistani military leadership of General Parvez Kayani. An extremely dangerous course to destabilise Pakistan is commencing. Can the outcome be any different than in Iran in 1979? But then, the Americans are like Bourbons; they never learn from their mistakes.

The NYT report today is unprecedented. The report quotes US officials not less than 7 times, which is extraordinary, including “an American military official involved with Pakistan for many years”; “a senior American official”, etc. The dispatch is cleverly drafted to convey the impression that a number of Pakistanis have been spoken to, but reading between the lines, conceivably, these could also probably have been indirect attribution by the American sources. A careful reading, in fact, suggests that the dispatch is almost entirely based on deep briefing by some top US intelligence official with great access to records relating to the most highly sensitive US interactions with the Pak army leadership and who was briefing on the basis of instructions from the highest level of the US intelligence apparatus.

The report no doubt underscores that the US intelligence penetration of the Pak defence forces goes very deep. It is no joke to get a Pakistani officer taking part in an exclusive briefing by Kayani at the National Defence University to share his notes with the US interlocutors – unless he is their “mole”. This is like a morality play for we Indians, too, where the US intelligence penetration is ever broadening and deepening.

Quite obviously, the birds are coming to roost. Pakistani military is paying the price for the big access it provided to the US to interact with its officer corps within the framework of their so-called “strategic partnership”. The Americans are now literally holding the Pakistani army by its jugular veins. This should serve as a big warning for all militaries of developing countries like India (which is also developing intensive “mil-to-mil” ties with the US). In our country at least, it is even terribly unfashionable to speak anymore of CIA activities. The NYT story flags in no uncertain terms that although Cold War is over, history has not ended.

What are the objectives behind the NYT story? In sum, any whichever way we look at it, they all are highly diabolic. One, US is rubbishing army chief Parvez Kayani and ISI head Shuja Pasha who at one time were its own blue-eyed boys and whose successful careers and post-retirement extensions in service the Americans carefully choreographed fostered with a pliant civilian leadership in Islamabad, but now when the crunch time comes, the folks are not “delivering”. In American culture, as they say, there is nothing like free lunch. The Americans are livid that their hefty “investment” has turned out to be a waste in every sense. And. it was a very painstakingly arranged investment, too. In short, the Americans finally realise that they might have made a miscalculation about Kayani when they promoted his career.

Two, US intelligence estimation is that things can only go from bad to worse in US-Pakistan relations from now onward. All that is possible to slavage the relationship has been attempted. John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Mike Mullen – the so-called “friends of Pakistan” in the Barack Obama administration – have all come to Islamabad and turned on the charm offensive. But nothing worked. Then came CIA boss Leon Panetta with a deal that like Marlon Brando said in the movie Godfather, Americans thought the Pakistanis cannot afford to say ‘No’ to, but to their utter dismay, Kayani showed him the door.

The Americans realise that Kayani is fighting for his own survival – and so is Pasha – and that makes him jettison his “pro-American” mindset and harmonise quickly with the overwhelming opinion within the army, which is that the Americans pose a danger to Pakistan’s national security and it is about time that the military leadership draws a red line. Put simply, Pakistan fears that the Americans are out to grab their nuclear stockpile. Pakistani people and the military expect Kayani to disengage from the US-led Afghan war and instead pursue an independent course in terms of the country’s perceived legitimate interests.

Three, there is a US attempt to exploit the growing indiscipline within the Pak army and, if possible, to trigger a mutiny, which will bog down the army leadership in a serious “domestic” crisis that leaves no time for them for the foreseeable future to play any forceful role in Afghanistan. In turn, it leaves the Americans a free hand to pursue their own agenda. Time is of the essence of the matter and the US desperately wants direct access to the Taliban leadership so as to strike a deal with them without the ISI or Hamid Karzai coming in between.

The prime US objective is that Taliban should somehow come to a compromise with them on the single most crucial issue of permanent US military bases in Afghanistan. The negotiations over the strategic partnership agreement with Karzai’s government are at a critical point. The Taliban leadership of Mullah Omar robustly opposes the US proposal to set up American and NATO bases on their country. The Americans are willing to take the Taliban off the UN’s sanctions list and allow them to be part of mainstream Afghan political life, including in the top echelons of leadership, provided Mullah Omar and the Quetta Shura agree to play ball.

The US tried its damnest to get Kayani to bring the Taliban to the reconciliation path. When these attempts failed, they tried to establish direct contact with the Taliban leadership. But ISI has been constantly frustrating the US intelligence activities in this direction and reminding the US to stick to earlier pledges that Pakistan would have a key role in the negotiations with the Taliban. The CIA and Pentagon have concluded that so long as the Pakistani military leadership remains stubborn, they cannot advance their agenda in Afghanistan.

Now, how do you get Kayani and the ISI to back off? The US knows the style of functioning of the Pakistani military. The army chief essentially works within a collegium of the 9 corps commanders. Thus, US has concluded that it also has to tackle the collegium. The only way is to set the army’s house on fire so that the generals get distracted by the fire-dousing and the massive repair work and housecleaning that they will be called upon to undertake as top priority for months if not years to come. To rebuild a national institution like the armed forces takes years and decades.

Four, the US won’t mind if Kayani is forced to step aside from his position and the Pakistani military leadership breaks up in disarray, as it opens up windows of opportunities to have Kayani and Pasha replaced by more “dependable” people – Uncle Sam’s own men. There is every possibility that the US has been grooming its favourites within the Pak army corps for all contingencies. Pakistan is too important as a “key non-NATO ally”. The CIA is greatly experienced in masterminding coup d-etat, including “in-house” coup d’etat.

Almost all the best and the brightest Pak army officers have passed through the US military academies at one time or another. Given the sub-continent’s middle class mindset and post-modern cultural ethos, elites in civil or military life take it for granted that US backing is a useful asset for furthering career. The officers easily succumb to US intelligence entrapment. Many such “sleepers” should be existing there within the Pak army officer corps.

The big question remains: has someone in Washington thought through the game plan to tame the Pakistani military? The heart of the matter is that there is virulent “anti-Americanism” within the Pak armed forces. Very often it overlaps with Islamist sympathies. Old-style left wing “anti-Americanism” is almost non-existent in the Pakistani armed forces – as in Ayaz Amir’s time. These tendencies in the military are almost completely in sync with the overwhelming public opinion in the country as well.
Over the past 3 decades at least, Pakistani army officers have come to be recruited almost entirely from the lower middle class – as in our country – and not from the landed aristocracy as in the earlier decades up to the 1970s. These social strata are quintessentially right wing in their ideology, nationalistic, and steeped in religiosity that often becomes indistinguishable from militant religious faith.

Given the overall economic crisis in Pakistan and the utterly discredited Pakistani political class (as a whole) and countless other social inequities and tensions building up in an overall climate of cascading violence and great uncertainties about the future gnawing the mind of the average Pakistani today, a lurch toward extreme right wing Islamist path is quite possible. The ingredients in Pakistan are almost nearing those prevailing in Iran in the Shah’s era.

The major difference so far has been that Pakistan has an armed forces “rooted in the soil” as a national institution, which the public respected to the point of revering it, which on its part, sincerely or not, also claimed to be the Praetorian Guards of the Pakistani state. Now, in life, destroying comes very easy. Unless the Americans have some very bright ideas about how to go about nation-building in Pakistan, going by their track record in neighbouring Afghanistan, their present course to discredit the military and incite its disintegration or weakening at the present crisis point, is fraught with immense dangers.

The instability in the region may suit the US’ geo-strategy for consolidating its (and NATO’s) military presence in the region but it will be a highly self-centred, almost cynical, perspective to take on the problem, which has dangerous, almost explosive, potential for regional security. Also, who it is that is in charge of the Pakistan policy in Washington today, we do not know. To my mind, Obama administration doesn’t have a clue since Richard Holbrooke passed away as to how to handlePakistan.

The disturbing news in recent weeks has been that all the old “Pakistan hands” in the USG have left the Obama administration. It seems there has been a steady exodus of officials who knew and understood how Pakistan works, and the depletion is almost one hundred percent. That leaves an open field for the CIA to set the policies.
The CIA boss Leon Panetta (who is tipped as defence secretary) is an experienced and ambitious politico who knows how to pull the wires in the Washington jungle – and, to boot it, he has an Italian name. He is unlikely to forgive and forget the humiliation he suffered in Rawalpindi last Friday. The NYT story suggests that it is not in his blood if he doesn’t settle scores with the Rawalpindi crowd. If Marlon Brando were around, he would agree.

Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar was a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. His assignments included the Soviet Union, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Germany, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait and Turkey.

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