Message Of Felicitation Of The Esteemed Amir-Ul-Momineen On The Occasion Of Eid-Ul-F

[ScimitarXEdge]

im saying thats he said she said and there is no proof but there is plenty of proof that masood and sayaf massacred hazaras in kabul in the early stages of civil war.By sayaf and masood i dont mean tajik and pashtun but shorayee nezar adn the sayaf group while hezbe wahdat i dont mean the hazars also done numerous crimes but you probably have never heard of it.

i dont know hazaras were deliberately targeted by taliban,there were even hazara taliban as we can SEE on that video.

There were Pashtuns in the Northern Alliance, that doesn't prove anything.

[graveyardofempires]

^
northern alliance is an alliance of numerous fighting factions ,masood and rabani's shura ye nezar,sayaf's Tanzim-e Dahwat-e Islami-ye Afghanistan,dostum's junbishe mili islami afghanistan,Haji qadeer,later the remains of hezbe wahdat,khalq paracham etc together became northern alliance.

[faye]

im saying thats he said she said and there is no proof but there is plenty of proof that masood and sayaf massacred hazaras in kabul in the early stages of civil war.By sayaf and masood i dont mean tajik and pashtun but shorayee nezar adn the sayaf group while hezbe wahdat i dont mean the hazars also done numerous crimes but you probably have never heard of it.

i dont know hazaras were deliberately targeted by taliban,there were even hazara taliban as we can SEE on that video.

GOE, all the news we get, no matter who is spouting it, is, he said-she said or videos. even videos in this day and age can be faked. when one sees or hears a lot of people expressing the same thing, one tends to consider that it is true, or at least, a possibility.
so, unless you or i are on the spot, in the thick of the action or event, we all are only going on heresay.
even then, one can only be in an event happening in one particular place, we are not in all places at once. therefore what could be happening somewhere else can be contrary to what we, ourselves are experiencing.

[ScimitarXEdge]

^
northern alliance is an alliance of numerous fighting factions ,masood and rabani's shura ye nezar,sayaf's Tanzim-e Dahwat-e Islami-ye Afghanistan,dostum's junbishe mili islami afghanistan,Haji qadeer,later the remains of hezbe wahdat,khalq paracham etc together became northern alliance.

So you agree that you mentioning Hazaras were in the Taliban doesn't disprove that the Taliban murdered Hazara civilians as much as me saying Northern Alliance having Pashtuns doesn't prove Northern Aliance didnt attack and murder Pashtun civilians

right?

[khushal]

You actually just disproved your own argument Khushal, the insanity pleas doesn't work.

You have disproved yourself by giving no evidence but redefining everything around your conspiracy theory. War itself is insane.

[graveyardofempires]

GOE, all the news we get, no matter who is spouting it, is, he said-she said or videos. even videos in this day and age can be faked. when one sees or hears a lot of people expressing the same thing, one tends to consider that it is true, or at least, a possibility.
so, unless you or i are on the spot, in the thick of the action or event, we all are only going on heresay.
even then, one can only be in an event happening in one particular place, we are not in all places at once. therefore what could be happening somewhere else can be contrary to what we, ourselves are experiencing.

well i dont know about you but i was in the middle of all of it in the civil war and we have escaped three times getting killed by the hazara group hezbe wahdat.Another thing is knowing how the Afghan society functions.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Khushal

That's the thing though; what you fail to realize that I don't need to use a conspiracy, the information I presented is officially documented.

if anything, it is you who are arguing what by definition would constitute a conspiracy theory here and circularly at that. You believe the event didn't happen based on your own conspiratorial suppositions that the sources are fraud and that others colluded to pass this fraud. That is precisely what the definition of conspiracy theory entails.


What I am doing is demonstrating how your conspiracy theory, has no legitimacy. My case is already established, now it is your case that needs to be.

[graveyardofempires]

So you agree that you mentioning Hazaras were in the Taliban doesn't disprove that the Taliban murdered Hazara civilians as much as me saying Northern Alliance having Pashtuns doesn't prove Northern Aliance didnt attack and murder Pashtun civilians

right?

there are actually hazaras in the taliban at present time as well.
who says northern alliance murdered only pashtuns?
they did the same to all ethnicities,mostly to tajiks.

i remember when they entered kabul ,in my neighborhood women would jump off the buildings to avoid being raped and believe me those women were mostly tajiks.

in the civil war masood and sayaf attacked hezbe wahdat which was mostly comprised of hazaras cuz masood believed iran was funding them to create libanon situation and hezbullah type group.
on their turn hazaras massacred anyone not being hazara or shia or especially pashtuns.
i remember being stopped with my parents by hezbe wahdat soldiers and they asked us to pronounce a certain dari word.

not just that hezbe wahdat also killed many hazaras who would not take part in their little shia sunni and ethnic war.
My uncle also escaped death just in minutes and when we were leaving kabul, we were stopped on the road to jalalabad again........................

btw check this video
Khanenin Watan: Ahmad Shah Massoud, Mohseni, Akbari, Anwari wa Syaf - YouTube

[ScimitarXEdge]

You're on a tangent, the point is the Taliban did commit crimes against other Muslims just as other Massoud, Sayaf etc etc. did. Whether there are Hazara Taliban or not is irrelevant, there will always be sell-outs right? Just like the Pashtuns in Northern Alliance had no problem when the non-Pashtuns went on a killing/raping spree of Pashtuns in the North. The existence of Hazara Taliban means a few sell outs had no problem with Taliban murdering their people.

[khushal]

Khushal

That's the thing though; what you fail to realize that I don't need to use a conspiracy, the information I presented is officially documented.

if anything, it is you who are arguing what by definition would constitute a conspiracy theory here and circularly at that. You believe the event didn't happen based on your own conspiratorial suppositions that the sources are fraud and that others colluded to pass this fraud. That is precisely what the definition of conspiracy theory entails.


What I am doing is demonstrating how your conspiracy theory, has no legitimacy. My case is already established, now it is your case that needs to be.

What are you talking about.
First I have no theory whether conspiracy or otherwise.
Second the burden of proof is on you. What evidence are you talking about. First you tried to use logic to explain the one afghan leader of a differnt time would have assasinated another afghan leader. You have no evidence of paki enslavement except a very complex conspriacy theory which is against the ISI doctrine.

[ScimitarXEdge]

really? because according to the DEFINITION of conspiracy theory; you're peddling a conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A conspiracy theory explains an event as being the result of an alleged plot by a covert group or organization or, more broadly, the idea that important political, social or economic events are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public.

You're claiming that the material is forged or fabricated. by officials to hurt the Taliban, which makes absolutely no sense given that it would hurt their credibility more than the Taliban.

so no the burden of proof is on YOU; I made a claim and I supplied evidence from documentation; I have done my job in supplying evidence. now you must prove this documentation is false.

[khushal]

really? because according to the DEFINITION of conspiracy theory; you're peddling a conspiracy theory.

Conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



You're claiming that the material is forged or fabricated. by officials to hurt the Taliban, which makes absolutely no sense given that it would hurt their credibility more than the Taliban.

so no the burden of proof is on YOU; I made a claim and I supplied evidence from documentation; I have done my job in supplying evidence. now you must prove this documentation is false.

Scimitar,
in this thread we are talking about your conspiracy theory about you saying the Taliban are Paki slaves not the stoning of the Taliban commander, that is in the other thread.
Lets keep the subject seperate

but anyways the burden of proof is on you because it is you who accused the Taliban are paki slaves and I have repeatedily said that this whole conspiracy theory of your is against common sense.

Now answer these questions please.
If the Taliban are PAki slaves then why have they done the opposite of what slaves are created for. Slaves are used to stabalize and secure the survival of your country. The Taliban have done the opposite and has destablized Pakistan and the whole region. Pakistan is more dependent on the US than ever before for its survival. Slaves are used to lessen dependency on others not increase it.

Why has the Taliban not demanded security guarantees for pakistan. Pakistan dream is to have a stable afghanistan with NATO forces guaranteeing its security. Why has the Taliban not accepted for the recognition for the durand line which the Pakistani nation has sought from afghanistan since its creation.

Why has the Taliban done most of its attack on NATO and not on Indian interests becasue Pakistan doctrine is to curb Indian threat and not NATO since NATO forces operate from pakistani territory, Pakistan does not view them as a threat.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Taliban suicide attack kills 17 in Afghan capital near Indian Embassy - YouTube

I guess no Afghan cvilians died in this bombing in Kabul, I mean we don't see the gruesome remains of bodies so it never happened, it's all a conspiracy

[ScimitarXEdge]

again this is documented and proven by the Taliban members themselves. Your skepticism is based on a conspiracy theory. So yes the burden of proof that he's deliberately lying is ON YOU. A Taliban members word about his own organization is a smoking gun.

your issue of security guaranteess is a red herring; you don't prove things by bringing divergent issues

because then that prompts me to ask why did they ONLY kill Col. Imam after he threatened to expose Pakistan?

[khushal]

again this is documented and proven by the Taliban members themselves. Your skepticism is based on a conspiracy theory. So yes the burden of proof that he's deliberately lying is ON YOU. A Taliban members word about his own organization is a smoking gun.

your issue of security guaranteess is a red herring; you don't prove things by bringing divergent issues

because then that prompts me to ask why did they ONLY kill Col. Imam after he threatened to expose Pakistan?

What is this, col imam is going to the tribal badlands and threatens them that he will expose this whole paki slave conspiracy theory. if he wanted to expose them he would not have gone to the lions den. he would know that he would meet his death. Another conspiracy theory debunked.