the pathan and the pakhtun

[Master Khan]

Janana Best of luck for that, I will wait for it to start

Yes, not respected that's why I see Saleem Saafi on the largest news channel now you call him Pathan?


Hopely, force them to look into those things

One thing more the country you are living in, having the nationality of has straightly harmed your mother land Afghanistan, so when are you quitting that nationality and coming back to Afghanistan?

I am in Afghanistan , Pakhtunkhwa is Afghan land legally.

I though Pakistan was a Muslim nation who care for Muslims everywhere, after all its call PAKistan, if they are" PAK" then why are stealing land from Afghan which has nothing to do with them.
Pakhtunkhwa have nothing incomon with Pakistan, British stole the land from Afghanistan and now Pakistan is doing the same...PAKistan(land of the Pure) lol, BullSH**

Afghan government does not recognize the
Durand Line as a legal boundary between Afghanistan
and Pakistan.
Ishallah Pashto will become stronge one day and people like you will be speaking urdu and your kids aswell, and then they will saying crap like "Ham Pathan hai" lol.
come on wrora, fight for your freedom, stick up for Pashto.

[Shayesta]

Daud Khan was the one who even started to collect a tribal army against Pakistan.

Daud Khan had given up his Pukhtunistan interest very quickly, it was Pakistani government who despite of Daud Khan's change in policy decided to encourage his former supporters to fight against him.

Fending the border region and mine both sides of the border was many times, if not 100 times, repeated by Pakistan but Kabul did not want it.

Kabul didn't want your government's interferences either, did your government live up to it? Tell me, when was the first time Pakistani government suggested to permanently fence and mine the borders? After the ongoing havocs in Pakistan? So all those decades they were 'listening to Kabul' and when the disaster spread into Pakistan, then they decided to 'think' of fencing the border? And yet so, why isn't the 'plan' succeeding?

We are an independant state and we will push our own interests in the region and that is a reason why we have started to build walls and fences for now 2 months.

Trust me, if it doesn't meet your government's interest, even in another century the borders will be open. The government hasn't kept the borders open for sake of Pukhtoons, or for sake of Kabul; They have done it for the sake of Americans, for the sake of NATO supplies, for the sake of their best customers in business (Afghans). Kabul's interest weren't even given a sh*t about, don't fall for it.

Afghanistan can not mess with Pakistan. Afghan army has not the skill to fight us. And they have not any rights to attack Pakistan.

The point here is not about 'messing around', the matter has gone from bad to worse in which your government didn't have to participate. And don't worry, you don't need Afghan rebellions to 'mess' with Pakistan; Your government and ongoing political movements are doing the needful.

We just defend our country from central asian terrorists, mostly Uzbeks and Tajiks, who come to our lands, take many women with them as long they stay there, force everyone to leave their homes to these terrorists and noone, except the army, can deal with these creatures.

Wrora, have you ever wondered how and why all these terrorists end up being in Pakistan? And what's even more surprising is that why they particularly choose Pakistan for it? India was a problem, Afghanistan was a problem, Iran has become a problem; Now what's up with Uzbekistanis and Tajikistanis?

They are no anti-Pakistan. Never were since Panjabis, Sindis and Baluchs share alot with them. Their culture and history and Islam was brought by these people to Pakistan, even to all Pashtuns.

Even Pukhtoon residents weren't anti-Pakistan, that were just our government. Pukhtoons of Pakistan and Afghanistan actually share a common language, culture and history, but Sindhis, Punjabis and Balochis adapted parts of Tajik/Persian language, culture and even history. Despite of your and my similarities, don't you still think we are cause of all the trouble in both Pakistan and Afghanistan? Don't you still justify all the ongoing interference of your government, regardless of it's results for Pukhtoons of Afghanistan? See, these 'common' habits mean nothing in today's world.

I have met some of these people and discussed with them our issue. The problems are not non-Pashtoons but Pashtun nationalists.

You shouldn't discuss this with non-Pukhtoons without the presence of a Pukhtoon, usually they won't be as open as you expect them to. If you could speak and/or understand Dari, I would have directed you to a few Afghan talk-shows where you will witness their 'neutrality', which doesn't sound pleasant to listen to. And you are right, non-Pukhtoons never had problems Pakistan; That's what the Pakistani government created. Before all these ongoing wars, Tajiks weren't as involved with India. Today, India and Tajiks are bestest friends in the world. Can you figure out why?

Tajiks and Uzbeks self have Shias, such as we have many Shias, too. Afghanistan was always home of Shias and Ismaelis. The greatest islamic scientist were from Afghanistan and either Shias or Ismaelis.

Uhm, Afghan Uzbeks are Sunnis and only massive number of Shias are Hazaras. Tajiks form a very, very small number of Shia as do the Pukhtoons. And the problems in Shia-Sunni history of hundreds of years ago and during Afghan-Iran 'partition' was a massive difference. Massive.

Abu Zina, Nasir Khasraw Balkhi, Rumi, Muhammad Ibn Karam and many more.

According to my knowledge and understanding, these people didn't even exist during the ongoing Shia-Sunni conflicts. Your point?

Iran has nothing to do with Tajiks or Uzbeks, except their language and culture and THEIR PAST common history.

I see, so Tajiks of Afghanistan got 'much in common' with Punjabis/Baluchis/Sindhis but nothing with Iran? If language, culture and 'past common history' are meant to be nothing, then even Lar and Bar Pukhtoons got nothing in common.

Do you know that Abdurrahman Khan forced many Pashtuns from Wazriistan, India, Bengal and Pekhawar to settle in Afghanistan?

No I don't, link please? And what are you trying to prove with this statement?

Ever heard of the Basmachis? Read Afghanistan´s history. Non-Pashtoons always played a very important role, even for the Pashtun kings.

You mean the Basmachi movement? Yes I do; An Islamic movement in countries like Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and etcetera in oppose against the Russian regime. But, what about it?

They made out of you ''Kabulians'' but you have not realised it.

Who is 'they'?; The Tajiks or Pukhtoon rulers? And Kabul is a city/province, not an ethnic so I have got absolutely no idea what's wrong with being a Kabuli? There are people out there who call Baba (Ahmad Shah Abdali) Multani as they believe that's where he is born, does that discredit the fact he remained a Pukhtoon?

Here you insult us because we accept Urdu as national language where we are not a majority and Urdu is not the language of any nation that was imposed on us.

When did I insult you for accepting whatever language? Urdu is a very beautiful and neutral language, there is nothing wrong with having it as a national language. Yes, one thing which saddens me is that Pakhtunkhwa is a Pukhtoon province where Pukhtoons should study enough in their own language, they should have sign-boards in their own language, able to complete the best education in their own language, etcetera. The problem is not acceptance of Urdu or Dari by Pukhtoons; It's the decline of Pukhto.

[B]In Pakistan, education is not bounded to any language unlike Afghanistan.[b]

Nor is it in Afghanistan where one of the best universities being in Nangahar; In Pukhto.

Do you know that your fellow Tajiks call non-Farsiwans as uncivilised people?

No I don't ,because they don't. Unless of course you can make up a nice story where a Tajik told you how uncivilized Pukhtoons are, or got proves attached to it, etcetera. I on the other hand have heard enough about Pukhtoons in Pakistan, I just need to activate a Pakistani sim-card and I won't fall short on ridiculer of 'Pathan jokes'.

In your Afghanistan Farsi became the language of the elite society and educated and civilised people.

In 'my Afghanistan' Dari was the official and national language even when you, inhabitant of Pakhtunkhwa, were a part of 'my Afghanistan'. It was lingua-france spoken and understood by Tajiks, Hazaras, Uzbeks, Nuristanis, Kohistanis, Aimaks, Qizilbash, Arabs, Turks, and you name it. These people had integrated mostly in Tajik dominated areas and obviously were more comfortable with Dari, nothing wrong with that. In fact, after Arabic, Dari/Farsi was second language used to spread words of Quran-e-Sharif with; Even in Pakistan.

Taliban are originally Pashtuns from Afghanistan. Our Taliban fight against Islamabad, not Afghanistan.

What prove do you have that 'our' Taliban is fighting both countries and 'yours' just Islamabad? That was by the way a very nice approach of ignoring the question regarded at Pakistani government. Anyway.

Your Russian and American friends. In Pakistan, you just got trained. The weapons you got from Russia, America and Saudi-Arabia.

Why would 'our Russian friends' arm Mujahideen who fought against them? How did 'our American friends' manage to supply us weapons? Lemme guess; Through Pakistan maybe? And as far as the training in Pakistan is concerned, for sake of which friend did your government train Afghans to fight their own government? No points for guessing this time.

The entire FATA who feel close to Pashtuns of Afghanistan since their past role in Afghanistan, farbricate all those weapons.

Which proves my point that those weapons did come from Pakistan. Thank you.

Karachi is a topic for itself. It´s not about racism but about power.

Exactly, now go and prove that Afghanistan has been all about racism only, and not power.

Baluchs are regarded equal to all other people of Pakistan but criminal seperatists who are armed and trained by Iran, Taliban and India use their weapons against their own nation.

First of all, what's the proof that the Balochis are only arming themselves against Pakistan because of foreign 'interference' and not their own interest? And moreover, what interest do the Taliban and Iran have in 'arming' the Balochis?

How many Pashtuns here are from Karachi, Pakhtunkhwah and have acces to drink water, internet!

I was speaking of Pakhtunkhwa, not Karachi or Punjab. Just last summer because of ridiculous heat and not enough electrical facility most of my relatives left for Kabul. In some areas drinking-water is so boiled up that it's undrinkable. Even in Afghanistan there is enough water to drink, whether it's drinkable is another question altogether. And the internet is full, and I really mean full of Afghan users; Facebook, Youtube, Afghan forums, political web-pages, etcetera. What does that tell you, wrora?

at least much better than in Afghanistan. This is the difference between Pakistan and Afghanistan. We give you jobs and homes and we accept and feed you for many decades.

'At least much better than Afghanistan' isn't an argument. Economically and peacefully seen nearly entire world is better than Afghanistan, the fact you compare Pakhtunkhwa with a war-thorn country says enough of how much better it actually is. There where Punjab has thrived tremendously, Sindh is doing decently well, Pakhtunkhwa comes nowhere close to it. And as far as feeding goes, I can't remember the refugees got anything for 'free' from your government and the Afghans doing jobs in Pakistan only benefits the country itself, not Afghanistan. Even Afghanistan has got 70,000 registered Pakistani workers who take their income with them back to Pakistan, so?

Are we still talking about Pashtoons? Those ''missiles'' are named after non-Pashtoon kings and leaders. With ''Afghan heroes'' you mean Sultan Ghaznawiy, right? Well, he was enslaving many thousand Pashtoons and killed many thousand at the same time.

Don't change your goal-post and read my comment more carefully. Ghaznawi and Ghorid are known as Afghan empires, regardless of their ethnic; Period. The foreign ruling class in countries like India and Pakistan left their influence and culture in the countries, in Afghanistan they adapted Afghan culture and influence (whether Tajik or Pukhtoon is irrelevant). Nonetheless, show me evidence of Mahmud Ghaznawi 'killing and enslaving thousands of Pukhtoons'? That would kill the entire concept of him having Ghilzai soldiers in is army.

Where is the problem to get such an easy thing? Oh yes, the problem is the Afghan Pashtoon nationalism.

Oh no buddy, the problem is way beyond that now, it has gone way beyond that. Just look at each and every single province of Pakistan and then come and tell me it's the Afghan Pukhtoon nationalism creating the problems. In the process of lecturing us, your government itself has completely lost its mind; Period.

[Shayesta]

@Barakzai
I will come back to your post later on, wrora.

At those who are confused with Master Khan's identity; He is from Swabi. Yes I know that not many in this forum show likes towards Pakistan, but that doesn't mean that all of them are from Afghanistan.

[Shehbaz Khan]

I am in Afghanistan , Pakhtunkhwa is Afghan land legally.

I though Pakistan was a Muslim nation who care for Muslims everywhere, after all its call PAKistan, if they are" PAK" then why are stealing land from Afghan which has nothing to do with them.
Pakhtunkhwa have nothing incomon with Pakistan, British stole the land from Afghanistan and now Pakistan is doing the same...PAKistan(land of the Pure) lol, BullSH**

Afghan government does not recognize the
Durand Line as a legal boundary between Afghanistan
and Pakistan.
Ishallah Pashto will become stronge one day and people like you will be speaking urdu and your kids aswell, and then they will saying crap like "Ham Pathan hai" lol.
come on wrora, fight for your freedom, stick up for Pashto.

Legally it's a part of Pakistan and that's why you see it included in the map of Pakistan not Afghanistan?

British stole? Or Afghanistan sold it to the british? If Afghanistan care about it that much why it sold it to the British in the first place?

Doesn't recognize? Are you a spokesperson of the Afghan govt? When they didn't recognize it?

No, I am taught Pakhtu by father and I will teach my kids pakthu unlike the many westernized Afghans

[Shayesta]

^ You mean Westernised Pukhtoons? I might have met totally different people here, but Afghans (especially Tajiks) have maintained their language much better and in much bigger numbers than Pakistanis I have seen in West. And wrora, Afghanistan didn't sell Pakhtunkhwa; Your own king did it. Abdur Rahman was as much your leader as he was ours, just like how Abdali was.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Because Pakistan as a successor state is bond to it or has to get into negotiations about the border. The "free areas" cannot be annexed unlawfully.



You are not familiar with international law.
The British crown gave up it´s colonies on the indian subcontinent, accepted your freedom and that change of power was agreed on many contracts and agreements. Keep in mind that British officers were heading Pakistan´s army for a reason for several years after it was created.
Pakistan is a successor state if you like it or not.




The ANP people seem to be smart.
They wanna achieve their goals one by one.
Lar aw Bar yaw Afghan.....atleast they know that Afghan and Pakhtun are synonyms.

Yes, so you are saying that it's a successor state means the whatever the British said it is supposed to do, is this what you want to say? The legal documents which the british signed are of no importance according to me

Are you the authority in the international law? Any source of what you said being correct?

The ANP is really smart selling the blood of Pakhtuns for their personal interest.

And yes none of these answered my question, Does the original legal document of that lease contain the clause that this land will be returned to Afghanistan?

[Digital Malang]

Shayesta is changing lol

[Chelsea-Fan]

Shaysta, stop telling yourself any lies.

[Shehbaz Khan]

^ You mean Westernised Pukhtoons? I might have met totally different people here, but Afghans (especially Tajiks) have maintained their language much better and in much bigger numbers than Pakistanis I have seen in West.

Are we concerned with Tajiks, when I say Afghans I mean the ethnic Afghans

Two wrongs never make a right !!

[Shayesta]

@Chelsea
That's all you could come up with? Anyway, better late then never. I am glad you decided to put quits on something you can't handle.

[Shehbaz Khan]

Shayesta is changing lol

She was always that way but you people with your minor vision couldn't see that


Post Edited :D

[Shayesta]

^ What do you mean I was always like that? You mean I always lie!?

[Shehbaz Khan]

^ What do you mean I was always like that? You mean I always lie!?

Opz I actually wanted to quote Digital Malang and say that to him :s I am sorry :D

[MostafaM]

Yes, so you are saying that it's a successor state means the whatever the British said it is supposed to do, is this what you want to say? The legal documents which the british signed are of no importance according to me

I said that even if Pakistan doesn´t feel to be bond to the agreement, it has to negotiate about it´s borders AND ask the people of the areas it annexes if they want that or not.

What you see as important or not is not my business.
We talk about facts here.

Are you the authority in the international law? Any source of what you said being correct?

I am not an authority in international law.
I am a chemical engineer with some knowledge in international commercial law. The things that I stated can be checked by you. It is up to you on what basis (logic or literature) you reject or accept arguement.s

The ANP is really smart selling the blood of Pakhtuns for their personal interest.

Your anti-ANP propaganda is understandable.

And yes none of these answered my question, Does the original legal document of that lease contain the clause that this land will be returned to Afghanistan?

No.
The Durand Line Agreement does NOT have an expiration date.
Nor does it state to whom it should be returned.

The same goes for the agreements on the partitioning of Germany in east and west. The unification of Germany came into existence "unlawfully" by your standards and lawfully by international standards because the agreements on partitioning were canceled by both parties.
We will get Pakistan to that point, don´t worry.

[Shayesta]

@Malang
Am I? :|