the pathan and the pakhtun

[Yaggi]

************************************

[graveyardofempires]

exactly

when i say phatan than you know who i mean.

[tor_khan]

Thank me, thank you. Kiss Kiss. Lovely.

Whilst we are in the business there are other kinds of Pashtoon too. The religious kinds who paint their eyes with kohl and look shifty, the sing-song type who are known as entertainers or daman. There are those who work on the farms and carry a gun and those who work as civil engineers and use a pen.

There are also those sort - the ones who I was getting to - who live behind their computers and blow hot air.

Wonder, which one of those is going to be leading the next revolution??

[ComradePashtun]

To me a Pathan knows nothing more or better. Everything revolves and ends there be it ghairat, self-actualization and being a good Pashtun, muslim and his history. Pathan is who is able to speak few words of Urdu and English with a Pakistani accent and in todays world would flaunt using words like "sir" etc. He thinks too highly of himself. He has pissed on evertying related to Pashtuns.

These holy words of mine should be carved permanantly on the biggest mountain stone for eternal.

[Chelsea-Fan]

Salamona,
Please don´t insult eachother. The key-problem here is that Pashtuns in Afghanistan and Pakistan were serving foreigners and always accepted them as long we could benefit from them. A normal human attitude. It´s not only Pakistani Pashtuns. I can´t understand why this ''Pathanforum'' turned to an anti-Pathan forum. Pakistani Pathans has accepted Pakistan because Pakistan is the islamic ground of India. We can not insult our own country and be disloyal just because Pashtuns from Afghanistan hate Pakistan. The name of the region can be Islamistan or Koranistan, nothing will be different. The stones, trees, mountains, rivers, the people, the provinces, villages and many more will remain there. The problem is not Pakistan, the problem is Afghanistan. Afghanistan does not want to accept it´s international accepted border to Pakistan and the Geneva Convetions. If Kabul question the right of our existence than we have every right to defend our national interests. The same would Afghanistan do (Russian-Afghan war). Contradictorily, Parsiwans, Uzbaks and Hazaras and other minorities have nothing against Pakistan and Pakistanis, except that the ISI intervene in Afghanistan because of the ethnical interests of Kabul in Pakistan. With such a policy, everone in Afghanistan have suffered. Why Tajiks do not question the existence of their neighbours or Iranians or Uzbeks and Pakistanis, except Afghanistan Pashtuns? Because of you and your leaders, other people suffer, too.

To me a Pathan is an uncivilised dog whose process of civility started with Pakistan under the tutelage of Angreez dogs Panjos.

You call us uncivilised but you forget your own Pashtuns outside of Kabul or out of the influence of Farsiwans culture. Without your civilised neighbours, you are uncivilised, too. In Pakistan, only the FATA is uncivilised, according to it´s literary definition uncivilized - Wiktionary. May I remind you on Mullah Omar, Haqqani and Gulbuddin who are from Afghanistan? If you do not want us why are you here? Why do you always claim on our country and at the same time you do not want us and accuse us beeing extremists? Taliban were born in Kandahar-Hilmand delta, not Peshwar. Majority of Taliban are Pashtun refugeess who had nothing better to do than looking for a religious education that did not offer them money, food, a roof over their heads to support their families, instead, killing Pashtuns on both sides and keep them backward. Your people force us to take the weapons against you. Of course we will defend our women, lands and homes and country. Unlike Afghanistan, in Pakistan we do not make any differences between Panjabis, Pashtuns, Baluchs or whatever. We also accept that Panjabis dominate the state and that is not a wrong policy. They are majority of the state´s population. You want us to stand against our country just becase we are a minority but you forget that the same you could say about Afghanistan as well where Pashtuns are in majority and dominate everything and when Hazaras, Tajiks or Uzbeks oppose you, your people call them traitors and disloyal to Afghanistan and foreigners. What makes you so proud beeing a Pashtun in Afghanistan? You have no electricity, you have no oil, you have no water, you have not much education, you have no factories. Actually nothing. You depend on us and still you insult us, your provider. Where is your respect? All your neighbours are deep integrated in their regions and are very adaptable with their own neighbours, only you people are stubborn enough to go for your own ethnical agendas. In Pakistan, noone get punished without any reasons. Political motivated insurgents, mostly trained and armed in Afghanistan or Iran, come to Pakistan and fight the state, the villages of Pathans, our elders, kill our women and children, spread their IEDs everywhere, block streets, burn schools, attack mosques or hospitals, destroy universities, police and army stations and take from us our hope and future. I know that Pakistani army and ISI are very cruel army, same as the police, but if you are not guilty they will not harm you. I know they are killing Baluchi men, but not because they are Baluchis but because they are active in many political movements who want to destroy Pakistan and cut it from it´s political and economical stand. Who pushed the drums of desintegration of Pakistan through the last 75years? Pakistani citizen and ordinery Pathans/Baluchis/Sindis or Pashtun nationalists with their godless leaders from Afghanistan? First of all you have no right to make any claim on Pakistani terrtories because you are not a (full) Pashtun. You people are ''Kabulians'' and not real Pashtuns, already the same as Parsiwans in Kabul.

I would appreciate if noone would use bad and vulgar words against anyone. One can have a discussion without emotion. Just try it.

[Shehbaz Khan]

there are two kinds of pakhtuns in pakistan.

Are you the authority? What's your qualification that you speak about a whole nation as a whole?

the house pakhtun...pathan...and the independent pakhtun.

Let's move further and see how you define both of them.

the pathan---he lives in fancy home....home rewarded to him by his master from the establishment. he dresses pretty good...he eats good because he eats what the establishment provided for him from the left over after the master is done with donated aid provided by international donors he gives the house pathan what is left.

the pathan lives in nice areas with paved roads....he lives with electricity, he has been given schools and other basic institutions....he lives near the master like good loyal servant....and he love the master for what the master has given him...more than the master loves himself....for that the house pathan is indeed a very grateful servant....he is a namak halal as the master would say. he is a good pathan. a loyal pathan...indeed.

so much so that the house pathan will give his life for the masters nation — quicker than the master would himself....he would sacrifice his own land and people to save the masters nation....a nation that views him as backward illiterate jangli janwar....a nation which very existence is possible due to the pathans people division and destitution.

if the master say.."i got a good nation here" the house pathan would say..."han ji...we got a good nation here." whenever the master said "i" he said "han ji....we".

that is how you can tell a pathan. loyal servant...a greatful servant. proud of a nation that is not his.

if the masters nation is ever threatened by war...the house pathan would fight harder to protect the nation than the master would....the house pathan would proudly claim WE ARE THE REAL NUKES of this nation.

the master would save his skin by whatever means to avoid destruction of his land...his property..his wealth. the master will invite anyone and everyone to his capital...to his hotels...anyone that wanted confrontation with his trouble making nation....he would make any deals to get out it.

the master would say "WE GIVE YOU WHAT EVER YOU WANT....NO MATTER WHAT....JUST DONT HURT ME!"

but the pathan would risk it all. all of it.....for the sake of the masters nation. he will feel ghayrat for the masters sake....he will feel offended for the masters sake....he would feel courage and jazbat for the master while the master views such things as illiteracy and stupidity of old age.

the pathan would readily do the fighting while the master would benefit from the pathans struggle. the master would let the house pathan fight while at the same time use the house pathan as an excuse to get more donations...more khayrat...FROM THE VERY PEOPLE HOUSE PATHAN IS FIGHTING TO DEFEND THE MASTERS NATION.

the pathan is willing to die while the master play cat and mouse game...playing all sides....as long as the master benefits.

if the master got hurt any time....the pathan would ask...."haan ji what's the matter....we hurt?" We HURT!?! if the master got caught doing questionable things....the house pathan would say "haan ji whats going on....we are in trouble?"

the pathan identifies himself with his master.....more than his master identifies with himself.

and if you were watching this...all of it....from out side of the box....out side of the game....with a unbiased view of all events and if you were to go to the pathan and tell him what is happening...explain him the game..the house pathan would say... "oohhh ji, you crazy? what you mean? where? how? my master is great to me....his nation is great to me...where is there a better nation than this? where can i wear better clothes than this? where can i eat better food than this? who is going to give me better resources than this?"

if you prove to the house pathan the game his master is playing with him.
if you give him videos. if you give him images. if you give him witnesses. if you give him documents. the house pathan will still refuse to believe it.

he would say "this is a conspiracy against the master, our nation. it is the JEW who is doing this. it is the CIA who is doing. it is the HINDU and RAW who is doing this. the master would never play games with us. no way! you are a liar! you are an agent!"

this is the pathan. a creature who lives under self imposed bondage. a creature that refuses to acknowledge truth and reality. he is so afraid of loosing the leftovers he is rewarded with that he is willing to accept his servitude. he is willing to ignore all facts as long as he continues to receive what little his master throws his way....at no matter what the cost or price.

In all these lines, you just tried to hit those Pakhtuns who are loyal to Pakistan, and believe me the 99.99% people of Pekhawar will be loyal to Pakistan have a walk inside Pekhawar university and you will find the truth .. We love this country as this is home for us.. Loayal to our masters? Who you think are our masters, we are the masters are ourselves, we got the voting rights, a Pakhtun is the CM of KPK, Pakhtuns are there in the federal cabinet and you think we have got masters? Get a life !!

Plus you think any Pakhtun having the facilities like Electricity and Education is a Pathan And this word Pathan according to you means those Pakhtuns who have no honor and self respect? Get a life !! What a criteria>?

in this same great game.....there is the other kind of pakhtun...the independent one.

the one not domesticated. not spoiled and addicted to the leftovers of the pathans master.

the pakhtun life is harsh. he grows his own food. he has his own law. he lives on his own time and his own rules. he thinks. he understands. he is an old timer. he knows the game. he has PLAYED the game. some say he invented it. he knows his history. he knows his past and he knows what his future could be without the pathans master in his way.

he knows that in the past the pathan master was the subject and HE WAS THE MASTER! he knows what the master keeps hidden from the pathan. he knows what would happen if what the master has kept was to be revealed. he is despised by the pathans master for his independent thinking. his way of life and his wish to unite with his kin divided by a border which only exists to keep the master nation afloat.

the master has tried hard to dilute the pakhtun. but he has kept to his language and his culture because he knows that if he loses what little is left of it he too would become no different than the pathan.

without his identity the independent pakhtun would be no one but a true loyal servant. something he despises more than anything. for the pakhtun death is better than servitude. it is not in his nature to be ordered. it is not in his nature to eat leftovers. it is not in his nature to be played games with.

so he struggles. he fights. waiting for an opportunity to reclaim his past glory. which is only possible if the pathan realizes reality. realizes truth. and become free from mental slavery and servitude.

And which Pakhtun figure of KPK will you include in this category currently? May I know?

[Shehbaz Khan]

there are two kinds of pakhtuns in pakistan.

Are you the authority? What's your qualification that you speak about a whole nation as a whole?

the house pakhtun...pathan...and the independent pakhtun.

Let's move further and see how you define both of them.

the pathan---he lives in fancy home....home rewarded to him by his master from the establishment. he dresses pretty good...he eats good because he eats what the establishment provided for him from the left over after the master is done with donated aid provided by international donors he gives the house pathan what is left.

the pathan lives in nice areas with paved roads....he lives with electricity, he has been given schools and other basic institutions....he lives near the master like good loyal servant....and he love the master for what the master has given him...more than the master loves himself....for that the house pathan is indeed a very grateful servant....he is a namak halal as the master would say. he is a good pathan. a loyal pathan...indeed.

so much so that the house pathan will give his life for the masters nation — quicker than the master would himself....he would sacrifice his own land and people to save the masters nation....a nation that views him as backward illiterate jangli janwar....a nation which very existence is possible due to the pathans people division and destitution.

if the master say.."i got a good nation here" the house pathan would say..."han ji...we got a good nation here." whenever the master said "i" he said "han ji....we".

that is how you can tell a pathan. loyal servant...a greatful servant. proud of a nation that is not his.

if the masters nation is ever threatened by war...the house pathan would fight harder to protect the nation than the master would....the house pathan would proudly claim WE ARE THE REAL NUKES of this nation.

the master would save his skin by whatever means to avoid destruction of his land...his property..his wealth. the master will invite anyone and everyone to his capital...to his hotels...anyone that wanted confrontation with his trouble making nation....he would make any deals to get out it.

the master would say "WE GIVE YOU WHAT EVER YOU WANT....NO MATTER WHAT....JUST DONT HURT ME!"

but the pathan would risk it all. all of it.....for the sake of the masters nation. he will feel ghayrat for the masters sake....he will feel offended for the masters sake....he would feel courage and jazbat for the master while the master views such things as illiteracy and stupidity of old age.

the pathan would readily do the fighting while the master would benefit from the pathans struggle. the master would let the house pathan fight while at the same time use the house pathan as an excuse to get more donations...more khayrat...FROM THE VERY PEOPLE HOUSE PATHAN IS FIGHTING TO DEFEND THE MASTERS NATION.

the pathan is willing to die while the master play cat and mouse game...playing all sides....as long as the master benefits.

if the master got hurt any time....the pathan would ask...."haan ji what's the matter....we hurt?" We HURT!?! if the master got caught doing questionable things....the house pathan would say "haan ji whats going on....we are in trouble?"

the pathan identifies himself with his master.....more than his master identifies with himself.

and if you were watching this...all of it....from out side of the box....out side of the game....with a unbiased view of all events and if you were to go to the pathan and tell him what is happening...explain him the game..the house pathan would say... "oohhh ji, you crazy? what you mean? where? how? my master is great to me....his nation is great to me...where is there a better nation than this? where can i wear better clothes than this? where can i eat better food than this? who is going to give me better resources than this?"

if you prove to the house pathan the game his master is playing with him.
if you give him videos. if you give him images. if you give him witnesses. if you give him documents. the house pathan will still refuse to believe it.

he would say "this is a conspiracy against the master, our nation. it is the JEW who is doing this. it is the CIA who is doing. it is the HINDU and RAW who is doing this. the master would never play games with us. no way! you are a liar! you are an agent!"

this is the pathan. a creature who lives under self imposed bondage. a creature that refuses to acknowledge truth and reality. he is so afraid of loosing the leftovers he is rewarded with that he is willing to accept his servitude. he is willing to ignore all facts as long as he continues to receive what little his master throws his way....at no matter what the cost or price.

In all these lines, you just tried to hit those Pakhtuns who are loyal to Pakistan, and believe me the 99.99% people of Pekhawar will be loyal to Pakistan have a walk inside Pekhawar university and you will find the truth .. We love this country as this is home for us.. Loayal to our masters? Who you think are our masters, we are the masters are ourselves, we got the voting rights, a Pakhtun is the CM of KPK, Pakhtuns are there in the federal cabinet and you think we have got masters? Get a life !!

Plus you think any Pakhtun having the facilities like Electricity and Education is a Pathan And this word Pathan according to you means those Pakhtuns who have no honor and self respect? Get a life !! What a criteria>?

in this same great game.....there is the other kind of pakhtun...the independent one.

the one not domesticated. not spoiled and addicted to the leftovers of the pathans master.

the pakhtun life is harsh. he grows his own food. he has his own law. he lives on his own time and his own rules. he thinks. he understands. he is an old timer. he knows the game. he has PLAYED the game. some say he invented it. he knows his history. he knows his past and he knows what his future could be without the pathans master in his way.

he knows that in the past the pathan master was the subject and HE WAS THE MASTER! he knows what the master keeps hidden from the pathan. he knows what would happen if what the master has kept was to be revealed. he is despised by the pathans master for his independent thinking. his way of life and his wish to unite with his kin divided by a border which only exists to keep the master nation afloat.

the master has tried hard to dilute the pakhtun. but he has kept to his language and his culture because he knows that if he loses what little is left of it he too would become no different than the pathan.

without his identity the independent pakhtun would be no one but a true loyal servant. something he despises more than anything. for the pakhtun death is better than servitude. it is not in his nature to be ordered. it is not in his nature to eat leftovers. it is not in his nature to be played games with.

so he struggles. he fights. waiting for an opportunity to reclaim his past glory. which is only possible if the pathan realizes reality. realizes truth. and become free from mental slavery and servitude.

And which Pakhtun figure of KPK will you include in this category currently? May I know?

[Shehbaz Khan]

Plus, I really don't understand why the Pakhtuns/Pashtuns over here have got a problem with the word Pathan? As it's nothing but a different dialect for me. And according to me if the use of this word was somehow wrong, than the best Philosopher and Poet of all times Khan Abdul Ghani Khan would have never named his book in 1947 as 'The Pathans'

[tor_khan]

Plus, I really don't understand why the Pakhtuns/Pashtuns over here have got a problem with the word Pathan? As it's nothing but a different dialect for me. And according to me if the use of this word was somehow wrong, than the best Philosopher and Poet of all times Khan Abdul Ghani Khan would have never named his book in 1947 as 'The Pathans'

Pashtoons outside the Pakistani establishment reject the label Pathan since that is NOT the name of our people.

Ghani Khan was a poet - he happened to agitate the Pakistani authorities. Of course as a poet, he controlled words and probably knew exactly what he was doing. Personally, I would hope that none of our poets etc. should call ourselves Pathans. I suggest you read some Malang Jan.
People who don't like the labels assigned to them by others are changing them, hence NWFP to خیبر پښتونخوا

This is an important step towards self realisation. The argument, made by Graveyardofempires etc. - though in my opinion - over emotionally, is about the domestication of Pashtoons in Pakistan. To a large extent he is right, if you are willing to accept labels pinned on to you by others.

[Shehbaz Khan]

^ It's just a change of dialect, I supposed. It gives no negative meaning or til 1947 it had no negative meaning else a man of that statue A. Ghani would have never called his people with that name Pathan.

As you see, To me a Pathan is an uncivilised dog whose process of civility started with Pakistan under the tutelage of Angreez dogs Panjos. this is entirely wrong .. And people like you mentioned GOE are of this concept, and I found it no where ..

I personally don't like it as this Hard 'T' is Pathan doesn't look good !!

[Nokia_Apridy]

Pashtoons outside the Pakistani establishment reject the label Pathan since that is NOT the name of our people.

Ghani Khan was a poet - he happened to agitate the Pakistani authorities. Of course as a poet, he controlled words and probably knew exactly what he was doing. Personally, I would hope that none of our poets etc. should call ourselves Pathans. I suggest you read some Malang Jan.
People who don't like the labels assigned to them by others are changing them, hence NWFP to خیبر پښتونخوا

This is an important step towards self realisation. The argument, made by Graveyardofempires etc. - though in my opinion - over emotionally, is about the domestication of Pashtoons in Pakistan. To a large extent he is right, if you are willing to accept labels pinned on to you by others.

Wos tata sa walkam chay ta Mod shway awo ?..dasey lekal kway


ta da Topic psay za ka zma Tarekh psay


da P====n humra pa mung bal lagey chay pa

cha banday da TAREKH Rekhtuney Takay

AG----n wabkha malgaro khu da ma Mesal darkru

zka zmung khwast da stargay wagharalway shi

SHastya khor....mannnnnnnnnna ba wi

[Shayesta]

@Chelsea
First of all, welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy your stay and hopefully we can have a healthy debate.

As far as your argument is concerned, a Pakistani Pukhtoon doesn't need to explain himself for why he accepted Pakistan as his nation. Though, the 'Islamic' argument only leads to remarks of India still having more Muslims than Pakistan, and Bangladesh feeling oppressed and discriminated against in a country which was supposed to be based on 'Islam'. If Kabul didn't want to recognize the Durrand Line then there were many options there for Pakistan; Fencing and mining the border, higher appeal to protest against Kabul's objection, shelling their borders against Afghan interference, etcetera. By creating anti-Afghan government camps, bombing Afghan regions with no proof of Afghan military men doing the same, continuing to interfere even with governments who weren't even interested in 'Pukhtunistan' issues (Najibullah's regime) and etcetera, your government has only proved who the real problem is; Afghanistan, or Pakistan? And don't crack jokes by comparing Pak-Afghan issues with Afghan-Russian 'war'. And as far as non-Pukhtoons not having a problem with Pakistan, you once again cracked another joke. These anti-Pakistani government/army protests are being organized by non-Pukhtoons, the biggest resistance to Taliban a.k.a. recognized government by only Pakistan and Saudi came from non-Pukhtoons, the anti-Pakistan mentality in Kabul has been created by non-Pukhtoons. And as far as Tajiks and Uzbeks not questioning existence of their neighbours is concerned, simple; Tajiks and Uzbeks themselves choose to be a part of Afghanistan, getting rid of Shia-mentality of Iran was their own choice. Why should they question a country's existence whom they themselves didn't want to be part of? And not to forget, we also had many immigrants from Tajikistan and Uzbekistan while those countries were under Russian dominance. Just like how you can't see Afghan refugees/immigrants decide Pakistan's future, same could be said about those immigrants.

And as far as civilisation of Pukhtoons are concerned, what is civilisation in your opinion? Being educated in Urdu and Dari? Being influenced by Punjabis and Tajiks? If yes, then rest in peace our Pukhtoon leaders' legacy for fighting for a nation with mentalities like yourself. And now coming to Taliban, despite of being aware of their nature, why did your government recognize them as our leaders? Why were they supported by your government? And eventually, why were the Americans being helped by your very same government to oust those very same Taliban? Confused much? You were forced to take weapons against us? Really? Did you forget who armed us against our own countrymen to begin with? Do you even know how all these weapons and explosives came to Afghanistan in first place? I will give a hundred guesses. And yes, of course Pakistan doesn't make any difference between ethnics; That's why Swat refugees were refused entry in 'posh' areas of Punjab during 'Taliban raid', that's why Pukhtoons are pictured as monsters in Karachi to justify killings of Pukhtoons, that's why you had to fight for over six decades to finally get an identity for your province, that's why Bangalis felt discriminated enough to seek independence, that's why Balochis feel discriminated enough to seek justice. Other than that, there is absolutely no discrimination whatsoever. True my friend, very true.

And in today's Afghanistan, minorities got as much to say as Pukhtoons do. Opposition against Pukhtoons as a nation has hardly ever happened, that was only the case when minorities were oppressed under the Taliban regime. And regarding what makes us a proud Pukhtoon of Afghanistan, ask yourself the same question. Even today I got relatives in Pakhtunkhwa who haven't got electricity, not enough clean water, for better education they have to leave to Karachi or Punjab, etcetera. We depend on you as much as you depend on us; You supply goods, we supply money. And the terms of respect could be a question to Pakistanis as well. In your history Afghans are regarded very highly, you name your missiles after Afghan heroes, half of your national anthem is in our official language, yet the interference of destruction by your government hasn't stopped. Indeed, where is your respect? The only reason why today an average Pakistan questions an Afghan's respect, dignity and honour is because of the mess your country has landed in thanks to (supposedly) 'Afghans'. Nothing more, nothing less. And as far as our neighbours are concerned; Iran never was okay with it's neighbours Iraq and Azerbaijan, Tajikistan has their internal issue as well as issues with other neighbours, Uzbekistan has issues with their neighbours as well as internal issues. Pakistan by the way is the biggest example. You already had problems with Afghanistan and India, now even Iran is added to the list. And as far as Pakistan not punishing anyone on 'valid' grounds, of course, you can buy off any crime you want. Same-wise if you can't buy off any force by their policemen, you are made a criminal. Not paying the policemen bribe has been a very popular reason to accuse Afghans of militancy, drug-trafficking, etcetera. Been there, done that.

And what proof do you have that those insurgents attacking Pakistan are trained in Afghanistan and Iran? What enmity does Iran have with you anyway? How do these militants enter Pakistan so easily and how do they get away with it? And most importantly, why don't these militants create the same havoc in their own country as they do in Pakistan? Why? And to point out your last and most painful flaw; Half of Pukhtoons who have settled in Punjab for over a century or so are from Kabul. There you go.

[Shayesta]

@Yaggi
Whatever you described in your comment hasn't got anything to do with being a 'Pathan' or being a 'Pukhtoon' because what you are basically saying is that a Pathan is pro-Pakistan while a Pukhtoon is anti-Pakistan. But then you are forgetting two famous personalities who weren't pro-Pakistan, nor anti-Pakistan, but definitely very proud Pukhtoons; Badshah Khan and Ghani Khan. Now think about my comment as to what I am trying to tell you.

[Chelsea-Fan]

As far as your argument is concerned, a Pakistani Pukhtoon doesn't need to explain himself for why he accepted Pakistan as his nation. Though, the 'Islamic' argument only leads to remarks of India still having more Muslims than Pakistan, and Bangladesh feeling oppressed and discriminated against in a country which was supposed to be based on 'Islam'. If Kabul didn't want to recognize the Durrand Line then there were many options there for Pakistan; Fencing and mining the border, higher appeal to protest against Kabul's objection, shelling their borders against Afghan interference, etcetera. By creating anti-Afghan government camps, bombing Afghan regions with no proof of Afghan military men doing the same, continuing to interfere even with governments who weren't even interested in 'Pukhtunistan' issues (Najibullah's regime) and etcetera, your government has only proved who the real problem is; Afghanistan, or Pakistan?

You are wrong. Afghanistan was always a thorn in the eye of Pakistan´s unity and nationals. If Afghanistan plays it´s dirty game, we can play it, too, and even better than Afghanistan. There are enough traitors in Afghanistan who can be bought. Daud Khan was the one who even started to collect a tribal army against Pakistan. Fending the border region and mine both sides of the border was many times, if not 100 times, repeated by Pakistan but Kabul did not want it. The last one when we asked Kabul to support us (4years ago) they rejected and told us it is against Pashtun nation. Today, we do not want to listen to Kabul. We are an independant state and we will push our own interests in the region and that is a reason why we have started to build walls and fences for now 2 months, AGAINST THE WILL OF KABUL. Kabul at one time cry that we defend our country from terrorists that swept from Afghanistan to Pakistan but they do not want to prevent such adventures for future days. Very contradictorily. And let´s be serious. Afghanistan can not mess with Pakistan. Afghan army has not the skill to fight us. And they have not any rights to attack Pakistan. We just defend our country from central asian terrorists, mostly Uzbeks and Tajiks, who come to our lands, take many women with them as long they stay there, force everyone to leave their homes to these terrorists and noone, except the army, can deal with these creatures.

These anti-Pakistani government/army protests are being organized by non-Pukhtoons, the biggest resistance to Taliban a.k.a. recognized government by only Pakistan and Saudi came from non-Pukhtoons, the anti-Pakistan mentality in Kabul has been created by non-Pukhtoons. And as far as Tajiks and Uzbeks not questioning existence of their neighbours is concerned, simple;

No, you do not understand the policy of these people. They are no anti-Pakistan. Never were since Panjabis, Sindis and Baluchs share alot with them. Their culture and history and Islam was brought by these people to Pakistan, even to all Pashtuns. I have met some of these people and discussed with them our issue. The problems are not non-Pashtoons but Pashtun nationalists. Non-Pashtuns just fear to come under Pakistani influence or beeing part of a new nation where they are a very small minority. That´s all and their problem is not Pakistan, but the ISI.

Tajiks and Uzbeks themselves choose to be a part of Afghanistan, getting rid of Shia-mentality of Iran was their own choice. Why should they question a country's existence whom they themselves didn't want to be part of? And not to forget, we also had many immigrants from Tajikistan and Uzbekistan while those countries were under Russian dominance. Just like how you can't see Afghan refugees/immigrants decide Pakistan's future, same could be said about those immigrants.

Tajiks and Uzbeks self have Shias, such as we have many Shias, too. Afghanistan was always home of Shias and Ismaelis. The greatest islamic scientist were from Afghanistan and either Shias or Ismaelis. Your answer is not an answer but just a meaningless comment without any knowledge behind it. Abu Zina, Nasir Khasraw Balkhi, Rumi, Muhammad Ibn Karam and many more. Iran has nothing to do with Tajiks or Uzbeks, except their language and culture and THEIR PAST common history. Iran is another country and not the homeland of these people. These people are the original inhabitent of Afghanistan, at least the Tajiks. How many ''immigrants'' moved from Dehra Dun and Delhi to Afghanistan, if we talk here about immigrants? Do you know that Abdurrahman Khan forced many Pashtuns from Wazriistan, India, Bengal and Pekhawar to settle in Afghanistan? The number of non-Pashtoons who fled from Russia was very small (between 100 000 and 150 000 Turkmans, Uzbaks, Tajiks, Kirgyz) compared to that of Pashtuns who were forcefully settled in Afghanistan, specially in the north. Ever heard of the Basmachis? Read Afghanistan´s history. Non-Pashtoons always played a very important role, even for the Pashtun kings. They made out of you ''Kabulians'' but you have not realised it. They did it slowly and slowly so that noone could realize what happen to them. Here you insult us because we accept Urdu as national language where we are not a majority and Urdu is not the language of any nation that was imposed on us.

And as far as civilisation of Pukhtoons are concerned, what is civilisation in your opinion? Being educated in Urdu and Dari? Being influenced by Punjabis and Tajiks? If yes, then rest in peace our Pukhtoon leaders' legacy for fighting for a nation with mentalities like yourself.

In Pakistan, education is not bounded to any language! unlike Afghanistan. Do you know that your fellow Tajiks call non-Farsiwans as uncivilised people? In your Afghanistan Farsi became the language of the elite society and educated and civilised people. Here in Pakistan, everyone can be educated in every language, including Pakhtu and all languages are equally, just that Urdu is the national language and is used in the same meaning as Farsi is in Afghanistan, inter-tribal language for communication.

And now coming to Taliban, despite of being aware of their nature, why did your government recognize them as our leaders? Why were they supported by your government? And eventually, why were the Americans being helped by your very same government to oust those very same Taliban?

Taliban are originally Pashtuns from Afghanistan. Our Taliban fight against Islamabad, not Afghanistan. But your Taliban fight against Afghanistan and us. Taliban is not something you can get. It´s in nearly every non-educated Pashtun vain. It´s a culture, a codex. In fact, Talibanism is supported by Pashtunwali. You want to fight the Taliban, start first on yourself!

Did you forget who armed us against our own countrymen to begin with? Do you even know how all these weapons and explosives came to Afghanistan in first place?

Your Russian and American friends. In Pakistan, you just got trained. The weapons you got from Russia, America and Saudi-Arabia. The entire FATA who feel close to Pashtuns of Afghanistan since their past role in Afghanistan, farbricate all those weapons. Out of our controls. For you. Not for us.

Pukhtoons are pictured as monsters in Karachi to justify killings of Pukhtoons, that's why you had to fight for over six decades to finally get an identity for your province, that's why Bangalis felt discriminated enough to seek independence, that's why Balochis feel discriminated enough to seek justice. Other than that, there is absolutely no discrimination whatsoever. True my friend, very true.

Karachi is a topic for itself. It´s not about racism but about power. We kill Muhajers and Baluchs and they kill us. Everyone of us is somewhere guilty for that what is going on these days but noone can stop it more. Baluchs are regarded equal to all other people of Pakistan but criminal seperatists who are armed and trained by Iran, Taliban and India use their weapons against their own nation. It is correct that they Baluchi people do not have part in much of the resouces that get pumped up by the government but one can discuss such issues political and not by arms. There are many Baluchis who are proud Pakistanis and condemn the acts of some of their people.

Even today I got relatives in Pakhtunkhwa who haven't got electricity, not enough clean water, for better education they have to leave to Karachi or Punjab, etcetera.

This is a lie. How many Pashtuns here are from Karachi, Pakhtunkhwah and have acces to drink water, internet!, thus electricity, education.. at least much better than in Afghanistan. This is the difference between Pakistan and Afghanistan. We give you jobs and homes and we accept and feed you for many decades.

In your history Afghans are regarded very highly, you name your missiles after Afghan heroes, half of your national anthem is in our official language, yet the interference of destruction by your government hasn't stopped. Indeed, where is your respect?

Are we still talking about Pashtoons? Those ''missiles'' are named after non-Pashtoon kings and leaders. The national anthem is in Farsi because of it´s deep root in the Indian sub-continent. Those names are no Pashtoons. Stop creating a vail. With ''Afghan heroes'' you mean Sultan Ghaznawiy, right? Well, he was enslaving many thousand Pashtoons and killed many thousand at the same time. They are maybe heroes of Farsiwans and Uzbaks, but not of us, except idols for Islam. That´s it.

Please, stay on your side and we will stay on our side and no one will have any problem with anyone. Where is the problem to get such an easy thing? Oh yes, the problem is the Afghan Pashtoon nationalism. Deal first with your own and establish a stable country with a healthy economy before asking for anything that is not yours.

[MostafaM]

@Yaggi
Whatever you described in your comment hasn't got anything to do with being a 'Pathan' or being a 'Pukhtoon' because what you are basically saying is that a Pathan is pro-Pakistan while a Pukhtoon is anti-Pakistan. But then you are forgetting two famous personalities who weren't pro-Pakistan, nor anti-Pakistan, but definitely very proud Pukhtoons; Badshah Khan and Ghani Khan. Now think about my comment as to what I am trying to tell you.

To be honest, Ghaffar Khan and Ghani Khan had pledged alliance to the newly created state of Pakistan. Their point of view may have changed later on after being subject to injustice and prison terms but it is fact that they participated in daily political life in Pakistan.

I find it funny when people like Achekzai or Asfandyar Wali Khan talk of "Pashtun interests" and "independence" when they get their salaries as provincial parlamentarians from that state at the end of every month.

Bein "Pathan" and/or propagating it clearly undermines a real Pakhtun heritage.