Questions about Afghanistan and Pashtun affairs

[Nadir Shah]

You have some serious problem in the head. Imagine you are very hungry and some one give you a bread to eat. What will you say to him ? thank you or stupid? ( Ignore the intention of person in giving you food, at instance taking care of hunger will be important)

This must rank high on a list of the most stupid things I have ever heard.

The **** generals have looted billions in the name of Afghan Refugees. Gen Akhtar Abdur Rehman and others became billionaires through the Afghan Jihad drama. Pakistan destroyed the state institutions of Afghanistan and created ethnic fault lines for it's interests. Look at the plight of Afghan Refugees in Pakistan? The Punjabis and Mohajirs did not accept the Pashtuns from dir, Swat and Bajaur at Kashmore, how can you expect them to be well-wishers of Afghans?

[akbarkhan]

You have some serious problem in the head. Imagine you are very hungry and some one give you a bread to eat. What will you say to him ? thank you or stupid? ( Ignore the intention of person in giving you food, at instance taking care of hunger will be important)

If things were as simple as just analogies then here is one.

Imagine you were a hungry girl and a serial rapist wanted to give you bread with the sole intention of raping you. What will you say to him?

[Michin Khel]

This must rank high on a list of the most stupid things I have ever heard.

The **** generals have looted billions in the name of Afghan Refugees. Gen Akhtar Abdur Rehman and others became billionaires through the Afghan Jihad drama. Pakistan destroyed the state institutions of Afghanistan and created ethnic fault lines for it's interests. Look at the plight of Afghan Refugees in Pakistan? The Punjabis and Mohajirs did not accept the Pashtuns from dir, Swat and Bajaur at Kashmore, how can you expect them to be well-wishers of Afghans?

you have concentration deficit syndrome? why you limited acquiring assistance from pakistan only. Read my original message i have mentioned three countries,

Afghans have a serious defect in them : unthankfullness.
We should be very be very thankful to the countries like iran, india and pakistan for what ever help they are providing even if they are interfering in afghanistan.

[Michin Khel]

If things were as simple as just analogies then here is one.

Imagine you were a hungry girl and a serial rapist wanted to give you bread with the sole intention of raping you. What will you say to him?

The difference between you and me is angle of thinking.

A glass is half empty or half full. akbar khan will most probably says glass is half-empty.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

I think Nadir Shah and Akbar khan are making a fair point here. It is no surprise Afghans whether east or west of the durand line are skeptical of other countries so called "help". The last time we got this "help" it was the soviet-Afghan war, for which we are suffering the consequences till today. Considering our land is being used as a proxy zone, we are skeptical of help, whether it comes from India, Iran, peerangyaan or Pakistan. Pashtunkhwa and Afghanistan can start going a long way if the people's wishes are respected, and they can be made part of the policy. Unfortunately that is not the case, so until then, it is not an issue of thankfulness, but one of interests. Help in international political arena always comes with strings attached. Luffy what you said made me laugh because it reminded of these few pakistanis I knew who would tell me "Be thankful, pak army saved your behind from RAW agents or crazy taliban...". They forgot to mention it was their mess and hanky panky that brought to malakand division in the first place. They helped destroy it, and when they start to clean up their mess, they act as if they did us a favour.

[Michin Khel]

. Luffy what you said made me laugh because it reminded of these few pakistanis I knew who would tell me "Be thankful, pak army saved your behind from RAW agents or crazy taliban...". They forgot to mention it was their mess and hanky panky that brought to malakand division in the first place. They helped destroy it, and when they start to clean up their mess, they act as if they did us a favour.

Afghanistan is not in the position yet to behave as totally independent. An ill country like afghanistan needs food, shelter and dollars at the momont not just the talks which you and me are best at.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Afghanistan is not in the position yet to behave as totally independent. An ill country like afghanistan needs food, shelter and dollars at the momont not just the talks which you and me are best at.

Peera this help is with strings attached and it is being used as a proxy war. It is one thing to have regional dialogue but it is another when Afghanistan and Pashtunkhwa becomes the battlefield. It will be just a worse form of the 90s. I am all for investment and trade which is realistic and helpful.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Dear Luffy

Do you think Pakistan did it for free? Most of the military equipment that America wanted to give to those fighting the Soviets, were actually kept by Pakistan to ward off the so called Indian Threat.

Not just this, it was the hospitiality of Pashtuns nature that So called Afghan refugees were given, Luffy, i suggest you actually go and ASk the IDPS from Swat of how the Punjabis treated them.

Afghan war was on the interest agenda of Zia Ul haq, Pakistan used the Afghan refugees to fight in Kashmir etc, Pakistan saw a interest in the conflict and took advantage, and you speak of Pakistan doing good things for Pashtuns, Has Jinnahs spirit taken over you.

[Michin Khel]

Dear Luffy

Do you think Pakistan did it for free? Most of the military equipment that America wanted to give to those fighting the Soviets, were actually kept by Pakistan to ward off the so called Indian Threat.

Not just this, it was the hospitiality of Pashtuns nature that So called Afghan refugees were given, Luffy, i suggest you actually go and ASk the IDPS from Swat of how the Punjabis treated them.

Afghan war was on the interest agenda of Zia Ul haq, Pakistan used the Afghan refugees to fight in Kashmir etc, Pakistan saw a interest in the conflict and took advantage, and you speak of Pakistan doing good things for Pashtuns, Has Jinnahs spirit taken over you.

I am just against isolation. Good relations with neighbours are in the best interest of afghanistan.
As for as afghan war is concerned, afghans had to rely on US and Pakistan to repel mighty russians. They could not resist a super power on its own. Surely US and Pakistan had its own interest. But Taking help from US and pakistan was definately better than submitting to occupation by soviet union.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

I am just against isolation. Good relations with neighbours are in the best interest of afghanistan.
As for as afghan war is concerned, afghans had to rely on US and Pakistan to repel mighty russians. They could not resist a super power on its own. Surely US and Pakistan had its own interest. But Taking help from US and pakistan was definately better than submitting to occupation by soviet union.

I don't think that is a fair statement. The Soviet-Afghan war was something the US wanted and it so happened that the interests of Pakistan coincided with US. It was "you scratch my back, I scratch yours." The cost it had on lar au bar Afghans was immense, so it is not fair to say we needed them to overthrow the russians. Rather they needed our land to boggle the communists down. In fact, the soviets initially wanted to leave in early 80s, but that would not have help the US geo-political interests.

[akbarkhan]

The difference between you and me is angle of thinking.

A glass is half empty or half full. akbar khan will most probably says glass is half-empty.

It is not an angle of thinking that sets us apart, its your sheer ignorance of the ground realities.

Allow me to put central asian issues aside for we might all be biased towards it, let us discuss Africa instead.

I have a rather simple question, for over 5 decades Western powers and their allies have been 'helping' Africa, so why is it that hundreds of millions of Africans are starving to death even now? How can people die of starvation in one of the most richest parts of the planet coupled with all this 'aid', 'donation' and 'help'!?

Africa was and to some extent still is the richest continent on earth! Under the pretext of 'help' and 'donation' they have been robbed of their natural resources, for every promised $1 bill, thousands of dollars worth of diamonds, fuel and other minerals are being stolen from them while they are being used as guinea pigs as far as biological experiments are concerned.

They have been fooled with the altruist facade of the 'helpful' nations, we are not gullible like them and like you.

[akbarkhan]

In fact, the soviets initially wanted to leave in early 80s, but that would not have help the US geo-political interests.

Yes, the brzezinski doctrine was to trap the Soviets and make them bleed as much as possible and that is exactly what happened.

[pir_Rokhan]

I agree.

For example, it is my responsibility to invite you to Islam, not the Islam that a village Mullah promotes with his limited knowledge of the world, or the Islam of a Khan or a politician who uses Islam as a tool to empower himself but rather the Islam that is pure of political motives and other dilutions; Islam thats free of secularism prioritizing scientific exploration and open dialogue.

I have already tried to clarify the misconceptions about secularism which the clergy propagate to safeguard their vested interests. There is nothing wrong in secularism. It is a social value and not against Islam. Secularism encourages respect for all religions and sects and makes sure a state does not turn into a theocratic state. It also discourages clergy mingling with the affairs of the state using their ideas about religion which in most cases are based on their vested interests than any regard for welfare of humanity. [ Even the Quran says this:
Ina kathiran min .......... bil batil" [ Most of the religeous clerics and ascetics exploit the people economically].

Another point which is often misundertood or not understood by the students of Poltics is that democracy, secularism, human rights, institutions, political sovereignty and economic prosperity are the products of INDUSTRIALISATION. The more Afghanistan becomes industrialised the more it gets all these values.

Inviting soemone to one or another version or sect or interpretation of Islam is appreciable. However may I opine that religion has never been an issue for Afghans. I have seen even the hindus and Sikhs among Afghans use the same religeous terms and phrases due to the influence of mian,mulla,syed in our society because for these religeous families relgion is important from a social and identity point of view and Afghans have no problem with it.

I would urge educated Afghans like yourself to divert the attention of Afghans towards POLITICAL CONSCIOSUNESS so they or their land is not used for proxy wars,their leaders not used as cannon fodders for imperialist intersts of muslim and non muslim infiltrators.

It is by helping Afghans knowing their friends and foes in the political sense of the word, that educated Afghans can help their native people.

The addtional challenging task to be done then is to help Afghans get rid of all those interpretations of Islam or versions of Islam which hinder their progress and prosperity as a nation.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Pir Rokhan, are you saying that your Khalq & Parcham and your ANP secularists did not exploit the poor people?

Are you deyning the fact that the Pashtun secularists at the moment are paid in thousands of dollars to serve Pakistani & American interests in Afghanistan & Pakistan?

Are you saying that your secularist friends never take bribes?

The secularists are the biggest thieves. Because they are immoral and have no dignity. Since they have denounced religion. They promote secularism so they see more women without veil they can flirt with and bars and hotels where they can go and drink vodka.

This is what Pashtun secularists are all about.

That's why secularists are a thread to our national values and national interests. Secularists are traitors who have always conspired against us with foreign invaders. From Mahmoud Tarzi, tot Nur Mohammad Tarakai, To Babrak Karmal and now Karzai. They are all the same.

In fact today, all secularists have gathered against our people in the current Karzai government. Maoists, Communists, Khalqis, Parchamis, Afghan Millatis, and all other type of traitors and infidels serve the Americans to exploit our land and to subdue our people.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Pir Rokhan, are you saying that your Khalq & Parcham and your ANP secularists did not exploit the poor people?

Are you deyning the fact that the Pashtun secularists at the moment are paid in thousands of dollars to serve Pakistani & American interests in Afghanistan & Pakistan?

Are you saying that your secularist friends never take bribes?

The secularists are the biggest thieves. Because they are immoral and have no dignity. Since they have denounced religion. They promote secularism so they see more women without veil they can flirt with and bars and hotels where they can go and drink vodka.

This is what Pashtun secularists are all about.

That's why secularists are a thread to our national values and national interests. Secularists are traitors who have always conspired against us with foreign invaders. From Mahmoud Tarzi, tot Nur Mohammad Tarakai, To Babrak Karmal and now Karzai. They are all the same.

In fact today, all secularists have gathered against our people in the current Karzai government. Maoists, Communists, Khalqis, Parchamis, Afghan Millatis, and all other type of traitors and infidels serve the Americans to exploit our land and to subdue our people.

Are you telling us that Jewish Secularist Zionists didnt ship your mujahideen weapons with agreement with charlie wilson, and you speak about traitors and infidels, what about Hamid gul,col imam and general aslam baig, those were the fore running supporters of the Taliban movement , not one of them was a pashtun nor a Afghan.

Dont be so biased Sangar Sahib, Your Haqqanis are very much loved by the ISI, not just this, As if the ISI doesnt know where your Talib commanders are hiding.

Even though under soviet laws, Afghanistan had schools,hospitals, infrastructure, Universities and a progressive govenrment, show me what taliban brought to the Afghan Nation besides taming the same warlords it once fought with to break down the Afghan Government with US and Israeli and Pakistani support and assistance.

Dont you get into your brain, Taliban rule was temproary, Speak about Shias, a big socialist Shia by the name of Benazir Bhutto also supported the taliban through ISI.

Oh w8, i guess according to your wahabi CIA/Saudi Beleifs, you can accept help and arms from a kaffir to kill a kaffir.

Kind Regards

Kind Regards