Questions about Afghanistan and Pashtun affairs

[akbarkhan]

Yara be intellectually honest, where is quran against evolution?

Where it says that man was made from clay and that Allah swt breathed into him of his spirit! And then made his partner from his rib and they were both in the heaven.

Evolution at human level is different than it was at animal level.human being is the first perfect animal and then in humans the evolution became psychological.

oh so now its psychological is it? lol

There should be some ratiional basis of believing.Why dotn you belive in Lord Shiv langam of Hindus otherwise?

Because they are haven't got an infallible proof like the Quran.

Infact their scripture is so odd that it classifies human beings in three categories, 'the head or the elite', 'the body or the middle class' and the 'the legs or the poor' and then it divides their scripture in three segments forbidding each class to read the segments that 'isn't for them'.

I wont waste time on the literary master piece of another language. Your claim is true about any literary master piece. How can I be accountable to base my life for a master piece written in another language. Those who have done the research have did it. Read Rashad Khalifa who says this is not the same Quran.Read Shia among you guys they also think it is not the samebook.

You don't 'have time' but your fellow kufar all over the world have and they are stopping at nothing to ridicule us. If they had the capacity to alter a single verse of Quran then they would!

btw shia is not from amongst us just like Qadiyani, Ismaili and Brelwi are not from amongst us.

This is a cheap satire not argument hence ignored

It is not satire at all, its a genuine question that you want to avoid answering, because it will demonstrate how stupid your case of Pashtunkhwa is if your forefathers were monkeys! So I ask again; if your forefathers were monkeys, were they Pashtun monkeys or ordinary monkeys?

It is not majority of people who say non muslims should pay tax it is Quran says " Yutal Jizyatay aiyadin wa hum SAGHIROON". [translation: They should pay tax [jizya] and be second rate citizens].

The Quran says that and the majority accept it, just like the majority of people accept a certain rule ordained by their democratic government. Furthermore, non-muslim citizens are exempted from obligatory Tax aka Zakat and military service. They don't pay the normal tax Zakat because they are not Muslims and if they don't pay the Jizya then who will pay for the national services? Should they be exempt from taxation altogether? The fact that Muslims pay only Zakat and non-Muslims pay only Jizya balances out the taxation system, infact Jizya works out alot less than Zakat hence the Muslims are paying more towards national services as compared to non-Muslim.

On the other hand, as a Muslim I am having to pay two taxes instead of one under the democratic system in the country that I currently reside, I pay the normal tax and then on top of that I have to pay Zakat because the government does not recognize Zakat! And I accept that because I live here, I don't go around shouting that I am being treated as a 'second rate citizen' because the system doesn't recognize Zakat which is compulsory tax for me.

You call an Alim a dimwit imbecile yet you fail to see your own sub-school grade baseless conjectures!

And don't make things up to suit your fallacious arguments, it doesn't translate as 'second rate citizens' it means that they should be subdued to obey the law of the state they are living in. I am subdued to obey the law of the country that I am living in at the moment - even though I don't like some of the laws imposed but I obey and respect them!

[akbarkhan]

Great. Then what right do we Muslims have believing that Islam is the only true religion on Earth when it's all a matter of "belief"? Hindus, too, "believe" that their religion is the right one, so they do what they do because they have faith/belief in their religion and gods, just like we do in Islam and our God.

In other words, according to your argument of "belief," all people are on the right path. And I'm sure that, considering the kinds of things you beleive, you'd strongly disagree with this -- 'cause you must be of the belief that only Islam is correct and all other religions are man-made and hence unacceptable to Islam and are not real or true. Correct?

That is incorrect, I have never stated that one should believe in just about anything although they are free do so. We Muslims have the right to state that Islam is the only true religion because our scripture is infallible. The Puranas and Vedas are corrupt that is why you see intelligent brain surgeons worshiping stones, that is how stupid they have become over time, similar to bible and other scriptures.

Islam accepts the authority revealed to Jews and Christians but it also points out that they have been corrupted which is unargueable even according to Jewish and Christian standards. On the contrary, Allah says Quran is protected and none can change it and it has been the case for over 1400 years, so instead of wasting your and my time with your school grade fallacious arguments, go and change the Quran if you are truthful.

[pir_Rokhan]

Where it says that man was made from clay and that Allah swt breathed into him of his spirit! And then made his partner from his rib and they were both in the heaven.

You should know that the style of all these scriptures is dramatic.They do not go into details but give a glimpse of what they want to say in a metaphorical style. This verse which you have referred to does not deny evolution as the process is stated in a metaphorical style in a comprehensive way. The making of man from clay is the result of this millions of years of evolution. How does it prove that god has two hands and he got some clay from somewhere and made it like a sculpturist and exhaled something into it. This would be the very perversion of the abstract concept of god in the first place which Abraham claimed when he rejected those entities in the universe which were previously considered as god. Irrespective of whether one believes in religion or not, the phenomenon of evolution [not necessarily its various interpretations like darwinism or bergson's creative evolution etc] are NOT against religion.

oh so now its psychological is it? lol

Yes it is. Psychological evolution is the evolution of faculty of self consciousness in mankind. With the passage of time the self consciousness evolve thereby giving expression to the latent potentialities of mankind.

Because they are haven't got an infallible proof like the Quran.

Infallibility is a part of belief and not argument/proof.

Infact their scripture is so odd that it classifies human beings in three categories, 'the head or the elite', 'the body or the middle class' and the 'the legs or the poor' and then it divides their scripture in three segments forbidding each class to read the segments that 'isn't for them'.

Every religeous book has such oddities and I mentioned a couple. For more read ALI SINA and respond to his objections.

You don't 'have time' but your fellow kufar all over the world have and they are stopping at nothing to ridicule us. If they had the capacity to alter a single verse of Quran then they would!

I am against ridiculing any religeous book or scripture. I think there should be a sincere search for truth. Unfortunately we havent seen many or should I say any religeous people contributing to humanity through their research in the contemporary age. If they do it is in the domain of normative and subjectives sciences which are difficult to verify or fallsify. So we are left with no option but to consider science as the only means to find the truth and to look uptp those who are doing it right now.

btw shia is not from amongst us just like Qadiyani, Ismaili and Brelwi are not from amongst us.

That is the problem. Shia say you are not Momin ,You say they are Kafir, Brelvi say Wahabi is Kafir, Wahabi say Brelvi is Mushrik and the thing goes on and on. Which sane person will waste his time listening to this crap of misinterpreting the metaphysical sciences without the correct knowledge of even the physical sciences,in the first place. Hence better to keep religion in the debate of metaphsyics for academic purposes and focus on the discovering more and more science to empower ourselves and solve our problems. If I ask you which sect you represent then you would call yourself a muslim as do the shias, barelvis, wahabis etc. But if I mention something about any other muslim sect then you would forget your generalised and universalised muslim status and talk about a particular sect. What an unfortunate diachotomy. You are someone who represents Arab imperialism in Afghan disguise.

It is not satire at all, its a genuine question that you want to avoid answering, because it will demonstrate how stupid your case of Pashtunkhwa is if your forefathers were monkeys! So I ask again; if your forefathers were monkeys, were they Pashtun monkeys or ordinary monkeys?

The common ancestor of all humanity [even adam and eve] is the unicelleular organism which was created as a result of evolution.

The Quran says that and the majority accept it, just like the majority of people accept a certain rule ordained by their democratic government. Furthermore, non-muslim citizens are exempted from obligatory Tax aka Zakat and military service. They don't pay the normal tax Zakat because they are not Muslims and if they don't pay the Jizya then who will pay for the national services? Should they be exempt from taxation altogether? The fact that Muslims pay only Zakat and non-Muslims pay only Jizya balances out the taxation system, infact Jizya works out alot less than Zakat hence the Muslims are paying more towards national services as compared to non-Muslim.

I dont have problem if a nation democratically accepts the life style or principles enunciated in the Quran [and afterwards face the music as Afghans did during ISI-backed Taliban regime].

The point is that just due to the sanctity of Quran or as a result of the choice of some Pashto speakers who unconsciosuly believe in Arab nationalism [due to their proclaimed arab descent] to have fake respect in Pashtun society due to the inclination of Afghans towards religion due to the lack of science and technology knowledge , if these pashto speaking arabs want to impose Quran or Islam then it is absolutely wrong and should be resisted.

You call an Alim a dimwit imbecile yet you fail to see your own sub-school grade baseless conjectures!

In the quran itself, it is after mentioning the physical phenomemona and thereby inviting the readers to think about universe that quran says " inama yakhsh alllaho min ibadihil ulama" hence proving that those who THINK on the physical phenomenon [which is the subject matter of physical sciences] and thereby try to find out the laws which govern these phenomena are called "ulama".

Dont tell me about alim, I know the reality of these beggers and child molesters whom you call alim. We call them mian mulla in Pashtun society. It does not mean that those who have a grasp of the physical and social sciences along with expertise in theological disciplines should not be respected. I do respect such knowledgeable people.

And don't make things up to suit your fallacious arguments, it doesn't translate as 'second rate citizens' it means that they should be subdued to obey the law of the state they are living in. I am subdued to obey the law of the country that I am living in at the moment - even though I don't like some of the laws imposed but I obey and respect them!

If it meant just obeying the law of the land then the term "SAGHIROON" would not be used as both Muslim and non muslim are supposed to respect the law of the land but Muslim are not humiliated by attributing the status of saghiroon to them. It is a harsh addressing phrase to emphasise their lower status in the islamic state. This can be further proved by the point that NON MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE A PART OF THE PARLIAMENT OF THE ISLAMIC STATE. This is mentioned in the verse " wa amruhum shoora BAINAHUM" [translation: their collective issues are discussed within THEMSELVES] which is considered as the basic principle of islamic polity by islamic scholars of all major sects of muslims.
I asume that I dont have to refer you to "Al munjid" or "Lisan ul Arab" to find out the meaning of these words.

[Roshina]

This is what i dont understand about you.

Just clearly admit that you dont beleive in Islam?

Iam sure the supporters of evolution come under Darwinism, am i wrong?

If you support this theory and the theory of mankind originating from Monkeys, than how can you also follow the beleive in mankind coming from adam and eve and the what Islam says, because monkey origin theory would be against the adam and eve theory.

You cant just invent your own Islam to suit you Qurratgai and I feel your being very dishonest with us all by your smart ass comments.

To be honest, i couldnt care less, I dont see any Pashtun nation being led by a person like you, i guess you should prepare for another new orleans style situation once America's economical state totally demolishes, we will see how Advance those who you admire truely are.

Regards

Everything in this post of yours has been addressed and responded to by Pir Rokhan in the above post (post # 166), so I don't have to waste my time teaching you the ABCs of evolution, thankfully.

And I'm not gonna give you the pleasure of entertaining your nonsense, when you know nothing about evolution to begin with, so, yeah!
Peace to you, little brother of mine!

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Everything in this post of yours has been addressed and responded to by Pir Rokhan in the above post (post # 166), so I don't have to waste my time teaching you the ABCs of evolution, thankfully.

And I'm not gonna give you the pleasure of entertaining your nonsense, when you know nothing about evolution to begin with, so, yeah!
Peace to you, little brother of mine!

I do read alot of Yahyas work so iam quite familar about evolution.

[akbarkhan]

You should know that the style of all these scriptures is dramatic.They do not go into details but give a glimpse of what they want to say in a metaphorical style. This verse which you have referred to does not deny evolution as the process is stated in a metaphorical style in a comprehensive way. The making of man from clay is the result of this millions of years of evolution. How does it prove that god has two hands and he got some clay from somewhere and made it like a sculpturist and exhaled something into it. This would be the very perversion of the abstract concept of god in the first place which Abraham claimed when he rejected those entities in the universe which were previously considered as god. Irrespective of whether one believes in religion or not, the phenomenon of evolution [not necessarily its various interpretations like darwinism or bergson's creative evolution etc] are NOT against religion.

We were discussing evolution in the sense of Darwinism, hence I asked a question about your forefathers being monkeys. If we were to discuss evolution in general terms then yes not all 'evolution' is against the principles of mainstream religions.

Infallibility is a part of belief and not argument/proof.

Wrong. If Quran was not infallible then it would have been corrupted - I have already mentioned the challenge of Allah swt with regards to Quran.

Every religeous book has such oddities and I mentioned a couple.

Quran is not one of them.

Unfortunately we havent seen many or should I say any religeous people contributing to humanity through their research in the contemporary age.

Agreed upon, that is because we have become passive nominative Muslims. Allah swt encourages us to explore the universe, explore the material world around in order to grasp his Might. I am not a big fan of Mullas who shun scientific knowledge, infact I mildly loathe them.

That is the problem. Shia say you are not Momin ,You say they are Kafir, Brelvi say Wahabi is Kafir, Wahabi say Brelvi is Mushrik and the thing goes on and on. Which sane person will waste his time listening to this crap of misinterpreting the metaphysical sciences without the correct knowledge of even the physical sciences,in the first place.

This is nothing yet, there will be 72 sects. Allah swt guides whom he wills, there are people who yearn to be near Kabbah in order to seek the pleasure and bounty of their Lord and there are those who live in its vicinity yet they are devoid of guidance - for they are given to arrogance.

Hence better to keep religion in the debate of metaphsyics for academic purposes and focus on the discovering more and more science to empower ourselves and solve our problems.

Wrong, 'science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'.

If I ask you which sect you represent then you would call yourself a muslim as do the shias, barelvis, wahabis etc. But if I mention something about any other muslim sect then you would forget your generalised and universalised muslim status and talk about a particular sect.

The argument certainly bears some truth but not all people are like that.

You are someone who represents Arab imperialism in Afghan disguise.

Just because I bear witness that Mohammad pbuh is the last prophet doesn't mean I accept Arabs as my patron. I could care less about any Arabs on the straight path, I don't polish their shoe nor do I lie to them for personal gain.

The common ancestor of all humanity [even adam and eve] is the unicelleular organism which was created as a result of evolution.

Ok, so those unicellular organisms evoluted into monkeys who are your forefathers?

I dont have problem if a nation democratically accepts the life style or principles enunciated in the Quran [and afterwards face the music as Afghans did during ISI-backed Taliban regime].

Don't blame or shun Islam because of a certain group, just like we don't blame Christians for what Hitler did.

If it meant just obeying the law of the land then the term "SAGHIROON" would not be used as both Muslim and non muslim are supposed to respect the law of the land but Muslim are not humiliated by attributing the status of saghiroon to them. It is a harsh addressing phrase to emphasise their lower status in the islamic state. This can be further proved by the point that NON MUSLIMS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE A PART OF THE PARLIAMENT OF THE ISLAMIC STATE. This is mentioned in the verse " wa amruhum shoora BAINAHUM" [translation: their collective issues are discussed within THEMSELVES] which is considered as the basic principle of islamic polity by islamic scholars of all major sects of muslims.

You don't think things through, do you! The video I posted earlier clearly explains this and I can't be bothered to spell it out for you.

[akbarkhan]

what do you think of Durrand agreement?
is it rightfully ours?

To hell with Durrand and his agreement, we will take what is ours and the Qadiyani led Pakistan military folks know it too well.

[pir_Rokhan]

We were discussing evolution in the sense of Darwinism, hence I asked a question about your forefathers being monkeys. If we were to discuss evolution in general terms then yes not all 'evolution' is against the principles of mainstream religions.

I am talking about evolution in general. I said that I advocate the phenomenon of evolution not its causess necessarily.
As far as Darwin is concerned , his findings regarding the phenomenon of evolution ,which are based on sceintific pinrciples, are respectable, his logic for its causes might be debatable [like the survival of the fittest idea,or natural selection etc]. Let me repeat it again, many muslim scholars from Indian subcontinent as well as from the Arab world also believe in the phenomenon of evolution. If you reject Darwin's observations on scientific grounds it is fine, but just due to the apprehension that it is against [one's understanding of ] Quran is a big fallacy. I am saying it again the idea of evolution is NOT against QURAN.

Wrong. If Quran was not infallible then it would have been corrupted - I have already mentioned the challenge of Allah swt with regards to Quran.

I have referred you to ALI SINA's writings about this topic.His challenge is still there for the whole world.I just consider it a book from where we can extract a lot of wisdom if we know arabic ,like the cassic literatures of others. Will not say more as I am no linguist so it wil be unfair to comment more.

Agreed upon, that is because we have become passive nominative Muslims. Allah swt encourages us to explore the universe, explore the material world around in order to grasp his Might. I am not a big fan of Mullas who shun scientific knowledge, infact I mildly loathe them.

Fair enough.However it id not sufficient.If the muslims are passive about it then there must be soem reason. The possible reason may be that Quran is in Arabic and not in Pashto.There are translations but then they are written from a sectarian bias or juristic point of view instead of extracting wisdom and inspiration and presenting it on an intellectual level [called Hikmah - in the Quran]. About the rest poeple like yourself should need to pinpoint to your poeple.

This is nothing yet, there will be 72 sects. Allah swt guides whom he wills, there are people who yearn to be near Kabbah in order to seek the pleasure and bounty of their Lord and there are those who live in its vicinity yet they are devoid of guidance - for they are given to arrogance.

Do you think anyone in his right midn has the time,or energy,or ability or resources to find out which one is the right one? Do we have nothign else to do.Does your mind convinces you that it is practical specially for a war struck people like Afghans to do all theological research all their life instead of learning science and technology and othe rmodern sciences to earn and honest living.

Wrong, 'science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'.

Generalising things will not help us. No comment.

The argument certainly bears some truth but not all people are like that.

If educated Afghans like yourself is even suggesting that X is among us [muslim] and Y is not, who else will the normal illiterate Afghans turn too. Sad state of affairs isn't it?

Just because I bear witness that Mohammad pbuh is the last prophet doesn't mean I accept Arabs as my patron. I could care less about any Arabs on the straight path, I don't polish their shoe nor do I lie to them for personal gain.

Advocating a version which justifies arab imperialsim is getting subdued to them . I do not have any problem with the greatness and leadership qulaities or wisdom of Muhammad , though. I am dead sure however,that Arabs used the religion for grabing the reigns of power in the form of Abassid,Ummayads and Fatimids dynasties and are still doing so by investing petro dollars in the Afghans of Arab desecent to glorify them and their version.Think about it.

Ok, so those unicellular organisms evoluted into monkeys who are your forefathers?

The apes /champanzies share more than 90 percent of DNA with the forefathers of all human beings . Man if ,he has any advantage ,is due to higher level of self consciousness. The biological evolution transformed to psychological evolution in humankind after giving birth to the first homospien. It is self consciousness which distinguishes man from other species. This is the meaning of " wa nafhto fihi mir roohi" and " khalakto bi yadayya" from the sacred scrptures.

Don't blame or shun Islam because of a certain group, just like we don't blame Christians for what Hitler did.

I understand that Islam and muslims are two seperate entities,however, Islam is an ideology, and subject to interpretation,at the end of the day , an ideology is in dead books and it is only living people which can inspire ,impress or convince living people. This is true for all mankind and for all religions. If just book was enough then there was no need of heroes like Muhammad in case of Quran and Marx,lenin ,Stalin for Das Kapital ,Voltaire and Reassou in case of advocating democracy over monarchy in French revolution.

You don't think things through, do you! The video I posted earlier clearly explains this and I can't be bothered to spell it out for you.

He never talked or even implied about the apprehensions I mentioned. It was just like the ABC type things which he talked about. I am sure he will not be the one who would have convinced you either.Lol. Ka na da dasay ?

P.S: The only apprehension I have ,Akbar Khana,is that while you are qualified to represent Afghans,I feel sorry for some of the optimistic views you have about some mirages which will hurt you later.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Yes, Pir Rokhan, we are too busy and have not time to study our religion. That's because we are so dedicated at clicking on adds on Pashtun websites to support Pashtun cause.

[akbarkhan]

Do you think anyone in his right midn has the time,or energy,or ability or resources to find out which one is the right one? Do we have nothign else to do.Does your mind convinces you that it is practical specially for a war struck people like Afghans to do all theological research all their life instead of learning science and technology and othe rmodern sciences to earn and honest living.

If you have the time, energy, ability and resources to find out about Pashtuns then surely you have the time, energy and ability to seek the truth about universe. There is alot more to life than 'pashtun' this and 'pashtun' that. And don't talk to me about honest living, if you were honest about who you were, you wouldn't be able to live where you are living!

Generalising things will not help us. No comment.

Exactly, but you concentrate all your pride and glory in Pashtun nationalism which is generalization at its best!

If educated Afghans like yourself is even suggesting that X is among us [muslim] and Y is not, who else will the normal illiterate Afghans turn too. Sad state of affairs isn't it?

Indeed it is.

Yesterday the father had to force his children to seek Islamic knowledge, today the children are keen seeking knowledge going against the wishes of their parents. The dawn of illumination has appeared like a crescent on the horizon.

Advocating a version which justifies arab imperialsim is getting subdued to them .

I never have and never will advocate imperialism regardless of it being Arab or Ajam.

It is self consciousness which distinguishes man from other species. This is the meaning of " wa nafhto fihi mir roohi" and " khalakto bi yadayya" from the sacred scrptures.

If its about self consciousness they would you embrace a Tajik, Arab, Punjabi as equal to yourself? Or will you perceive them as lowly and hold you forefathers in great esteam?

I understand that Islam and muslims are two seperate entities,however, Islam is an ideology, and subject to interpretation,at the end of the day , an ideology is in dead books and it is only living people which can inspire ,impress or convince living people.

Islam is not an ideology, it is a pragmatic framework ensuring success in this life and the hereafter. It is not our job to convince people nor do we have the ability or authority to convince people.

The only apprehension I have ,Akbar Khana,is that while you are qualified to represent Afghans,I feel sorry for some of the optimistic views you have about some mirages which will hurt you later.

We will have to wait and see whether you are Pir Rokhan or Pir Tareek.

[AfghanSoulja]

there are too many loopholes with respect to durrand but none that can be legally challanged as of right now

[Smarty]

akbar sahab, what are your comments about afghanistan as a failed state? dont u think it should be divided between pakistan, iran, uzbekistan and tajikistan?

[akbarkhan]

To put it as simple as that would be wishful thinking. As I have mentioned we have options that we need to strive for.

1. Islamic caliphate
2. Loy Afghanistan

Allah forbid if we fail to establish a caliphate then Loy Afghanistan is the only solution without which there will be no peace, security or long term prosperity.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

akbar sahab, what are your comments about afghanistan as a failed state? dont u think it should be divided between pakistan, iran, uzbekistan and tajikistan?

It's sad, isn't it? Tajiks have their state in addition to having many of their kind in Afghanistan. The same goes for Uzbeks and Turkmens. As for Pashtuns (Afghans), they're divided between two states and form an outright majority in none. So Pashtuns, the real Afghans, are already divided.

Akbar Khan, we shouldn't blame others for our problems. We can't blame the wolf for eating the calf.

[akbarkhan]

Akbar Khan, we shouldn't blame others for our problems. We can't blame the wolf for eating the calf.

I have never blamed others for our problems, infact I am totally against people who blame their misfortunes on others. Expecting mercy from one's enemy is ludicrous, we must expect and prepare for the worse as far as our adversaries are concerned.

Before all, we must deal with the snakes up our own sleeves, doing so with fists of iron; we must dismantle the basis, disrupt the means, and neutralize the efforts of the treacherous groups who are bent on destroying our national, social and religious integrities.