Pakistan debate

[kakar]

Re: Pakistan debate

I love Pakistani CITIZENS, But I think the Government is Kaffir.

[karachipashtun]

Re: Pakistan debate

Pakistan loves its Afghan brothers.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Re: Pakistan debate

Pakistan loves its Afghan brothers.

You might wanna rethink that:

February 2010 - 40 Pashtun laborers killed in Karachi by MQM workers.
April 2009 - 30 Pashtun laborers killed in Karachi by MQM.
May 2007 - 25 Pashtun activists killed by MQM.

And these are just the major incidents. Every week, these MQM (A, H and other factions) thugs gun down Afghan boys who collect recyclable stuff from garbage dumps to make a living... Quetta-wal Chai shops are forcibly closed down in Mohajir areas and noncompliance is answered with bullets. The ANP does nothing.

Ask any Karachiite what the status of Pashtuns (aka Afghans) is in Karachi and he'll tell you how it is.....

[karachipashtun]

Re: Pakistan debate

Pakistan loves its Afghan brothers.

You might wanna rethink that:

February 2010 - 40 Pashtun laborers killed in Karachi by MQM workers.
April 2009 - 30 Pashtun laborers killed in Karachi by MQM.
May 2007 - 25 Pashtun activists killed by MQM.

And these are just the major incidents. Every week, these MQM (A, H and other factions) thugs gun down Afghan boys who collect recyclable stuff from garbage dumps to make a living... Quetta-wal Chai shops are forcibly closed down in Mohajir areas and noncompliance is answered with bullets. The ANP does nothing.

Ask any Karachiite what the status of Pashtuns (aka Afghans) is in Karachi and he'll tell you how it is.....

You are being biased, Those very same Pashtuns also own THOUSANDS of stores in Karachi, Pashtuns(Afghans) are a HUGE force in Pakistan, When the declare a strike the entire city is closed.

And Pashtuns also kill MQM, Pashtuns are very powerful and they are highly respected, they are called Khan Sahab.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Re: Pakistan debate

You are being biased, Those very same Pashtuns also own THOUSANDS of stores in Karachi, Pashtuns(Afghans) are a HUGE force in Pakistan, When the declare a strike the entire city is closed.

And Pashtuns also kill MQM, Pashtuns are very powerful and they are highly respected, they are called Khan Sahab.

Yes, despite MQM's efforts, Pashtuns own many businesses in Karachi. However, when last month, 40 Pashtuns were killed, no compensation was made to their families and no period of mourning was declared. At the same time, when a Shi'ite (Mohajir dominated) procession was attacked by some of the ISI's fringe loonies, the victims' families were compensated and a period of mourning was declared.

Pashtuns are not respect in Karachi, I'm sorry to inform you. Do you know what these Indians say these days? Pehlay yeh (Pashtuns) goli chalatay thay aur hum darakht par chuptay thay. Ab yeh goli chalatay hain aur hum in par rocket launcher chalatay hain. If a Pashtun gets into a fight or an accident with a Mohajir here, within minutes, the nearest MQM sector/unit sends in backup and that Pashtun is either beaten up badly and hospitalized or killed. The police just sit back and watch. In Karachi University, Pashtuns have been denied to form their own political party. In other places, they are mocked and looked down upon.

"Khan Sahib" is a thing of the past. Now it's Khochi, Akhrot, Lala and Jangli, among other things. Your "Khan Sahibs" are also the victims of SMS campaigns that refer to them only as bewakuf and launday-baaz.

[zorawar]

Re: Pakistan debate

^Nice what to sum it up, Good job Heath

[karachipashtun]

Re: Pakistan debate

Yes, despite MQM's efforts, Pashtuns own many businesses in Karachi. However, when last month, 40 Pashtuns were killed, no compensation was made to their families and no period of mourning was declared. At the same time, when a Shi'ite (Mohajir dominated) procession was attacked by some of the ISI's fringe loonies, the victims' families were compensated and a period of mourning was declared.

Pashtuns declared plenty of strikes, In fact, In Sohrab Goth Pashtuns killed many Mohajirs . Pashtuns are very well respected in Pakistan, You are painting this blurry image of them, All the clothing stores are owned by Afghans and All the restaurants are owned by Afghans, all transportation is monopolized by Afghans.

Pashtuns are not respect in Karachi, I'm sorry to inform you. Do you know what these Indians say these days? Pehlay yeh (Pashtuns) goli chalatay thay aur hum darakht par chuptay thay. Ab yeh goli chalatay hain aur hum in par rocket launcher chalatay hain. If a Pashtun gets into a fight or an accident with a Mohajir here, within minutes, the nearest MQM sector/unit sends in backup and that Pashtun is either beaten up badly and hospitalized or killed. The police just sit back and watch. In Karachi University, Pashtuns have been denied to form their own political party. In other places, they are mocked and looked down upon.

Have you actually lived in Karachi? Seems like you are basing your argument off youtube and news.

"Khan Sahib" is a thing of the past. Now it's Khochi, Akhrot, Lala and Jangli, among other things. Your "Khan Sahibs" are also the victims of SMS campaigns that refer to them only as bewakuf and launday-baaz.

That is a minority group, Pashtuns also beat up anyone who makes fun of them, like I said we are a dominant force and proud Afghans.

[tor_khan]

Re: Do you hate Pakistan?

India doesn't care about you Afghans, they are only USING your soil against Pakistan and that's it.

There are several things here.

Emotionally you and I, Sayyaf, are coming from two different places. I don't hate Pakistan, but you do have a problem with India. I have family in both and perhaps, typically as someone who sees no desire for an escalation in the cold war between the two, I think it makes perfect sense to work with India. How else can this be achieved without trusting that India can at least be a friend and partner? That is the Pashtoon approach stemming from Bacha Khan. To that end, I believe that Jinnah was wrong.

The second thing is, is about power. Basically, he who lies with the US is the most powerful. You mention in your posting that India ran to America to "stab Iran in the back". India was/is traditionally a supporter of the USSR/Russia and not the US. Contrast that with Pakistan. And bear in mind that the US serves one constiuency - that of the state of Israel. Pakistan has time and time again moved against the wishes and interests of its own people and its neighbours to please the US, and only the US. The US has a big role in Pakistan politics and Pakistan could never have developed its nuclear capabilities without acknowledgement from the US. Remember, Pakistan was the buffer against the Russians during the Afghan occupation. The US, well aware of India's nuclear ambitions, thus gave tacit support to Pakistan and in the process mediated with Israel to keep them quiet (i.e. the Pakistan would never be in full control of their nuclear weapons and that the US would continue to have strong influence in the region). Arguably, it was Pakistan who opened the door for the US presence in the region. Not India. Not Afghanistan. Not Iran.

As for Pakistan "doing more for Muslims than any other country", great if it has - we are an Ummah - we have brotherly rights and duties to help each other - but in reality Pakistan has been harder, no less, with its own and neighbouring Muslim populations - Bangladesh is a story of an oppressed nations freedom struggle, Balochistan is pretty much the same today and many Pashtoons have been polarised as if they were a social fifth column. Kashmiris are no closer to liberation despite Pakistan's intervention and Afghanistan is in ruins, not least because in part it was a battlefield in which Pakistan had a part. Pakistan as an ideal Muslim state is far from ideal, corrupt to the core, ready to do the US's bidding and one of the most dangerous places on the planet.

Pakistan's Zia ul Haq once made it very clear that his country and Israel had much in common - both were states founded in the name of religion and it was he who intiated a deepening of relations between the ISI and Mossad. Successive governments have continued this from Benazir, Musharraf to Zardari.

[tor_khan]

Re: Pakistan debate

Pashtuns are not respect in Karachi, I'm sorry to inform you. Do you know what these Indians say these days? Pehlay yeh (Pashtuns) goli chalatay thay aur hum darakht par chuptay thay. Ab yeh goli chalatay hain aur hum in par rocket launcher chalatay hain. If a Pashtun gets into a fight or an accident with a Mohajir here, within minutes, the nearest MQM sector/unit sends in backup and that Pashtun is either beaten up badly and hospitalized or killed. The police just sit back and watch. In Karachi University, Pashtuns have been denied to form their own political party. In other places, they are mocked and looked down upon.

Have you actually lived in Karachi? Seems like you are basing your argument off youtube and news.

Dear KarachiPashtun.

Your name maybe Karachi, but Heathen is THE PULSE of Karachi.

[karachipashtun]

Re: Pakistan debate

Tor Khan
lets see what he says first.

[Master Khan]

Re: Pakistan debate

So Pashtuns are a liability in Karachi according to the MQM

[pir_Rokhan]

Re: Pakistan debate

There is no debate on Pakistan, it is destined to become history as history will prove in the coming years.

A lot of ISI stooges come to Pashtuns forums and pretend to be Pashtuns by adding Khan to their name though they are the worst enemies of Pashtuns.One should know that as Mohammad of Arabia once said very wisely, "Al-harbo Khidyatun" [War is the name of deception].So Pashtuns should not get deceived by names and sweet words by the sympathisers of Pakistan. These sold outs are the killers of our children, women, youngsters and men and are the boot licker of military mainly constituted of North Punjabis.

The balkanisation of Pakistan is destined due to its internal contradictions.

1) The country was claimed to have been created in the name of religion while neither Mohammad Ali Jinnah approved of this idea nor Iqbal.Both wanted separate provinces within the Indian confederacy.

2) Other than sold out Pakhtuns,Sindhis,Mahajirs,Seraikis and Kashmiris who are the peons of Punjab [every nation has such black sheep and ****], the majority of these nations hate Pakistan's higher echelons of power represented by killers-for-hire Military, boot licking civil beuareocracy,Fuedal Punjabi class, pseudo intellectuals and biased media.

3) "India phobia" and "Islam mania" are the two tools which the elite class of Pakistan uses to exploit the wealth and resources of various nations living in Pakistan.

4) There is an ideological clash between the fundamentalists and the progressive minded Pakistanis which has made Pakistan a failed state. If Pakistan does not stick to its theocratic stance it loses its reason for existence and if it sticks to it then it goes by atleast one thousand years back in history. Pakistan cannot make a choice as the so called two nation theory has also already been proved wrong with the creation of Bengal. The brave nation which got freedom from the shackles of Punjab - a precedent to be followed by the freedom fighters in Balochistan, Pakthunkhwa and Sindh.

5) The monster of Taliban which was created by ISI to destabilise Afghanistan and to have strategic depth against India has fired back and the drama which was fabricated by military has reached GHQ, Sargodha, Lahore, Faisal abad and Karachi after destroying Pakhtunkhwa initially.

6) Pakistan has become a synonym for terrorism, nuclear proliferation, fundamentalism, a military empire and a hell on earth for her inhabitants, after destabilising Afghanistan by its agencies. It has lost all justification for its existence in the eyes of its own people as well as international community.” Pakistan Zindabad" has now been replaced by "Pakistan say Zinda bhaag".

7) Pakistan is like a reactionary man with no genuine desires, aims and ambitions of its own. It equates herself to India and Israel. While the fact is there is no comparison whatsoever in the excellence achieved by these states despite being projected as enemies by Pakistani media. It is a matter of a decade and if India survived its north south differences it has all the potential to become the second super power after china. We see it with our own eyes here in the Middle East. The brain behind Aramco, Sabic, Adnoc, batleco, QP, Rasgas etc and construction industry is 90 percent Indian.


8) By presenting history in a distorted manner and using false lies about Pakhtuns, Baloch and Sindhis who are justified to fight for their freedom and liberty, as projected in Pakistan studies by Ahmed qureshi, I.H.Qureshi, Altaf Gohar etc and other writers who have no conscience, it is difficult to fool all people all the time.

[pukhtana]

Re: Pakistan debate

Wow Pir rokhan, you made me open my eyes to a whole different level.

[Sayyaf_Khan]

Re: Do you hate Pakistan?

As for me, I have a problem with the way Pakistan was created. It still haunts me that the Pashtuns were NOT given the option of choose an independent state for ourselves OR to choose to be reunited with Afghanistan. We were given only two options: Choose either Pakistan or India.

Had Amir Abdur Rahman not given up half of Pashtun land to the british, maybe we wouldn't have been a part of Pakistan today.
http://www.hujra.net/index.php?topic=2996.0;wap2

But history is the past, its a pity people still can't leave the past and look towards a better future.

Being Muslim and fooled to believe that Pakistan was "an Islamic state built to give freedom to pious, Islam-loving Muslims," we went with Pakistan because we were/are not Hindus.

Tell me, is there a ban on Hijab or Niqab in Pakistan? Are Muslims not allowed to pray where ever they are in Pakistan? What freedom is missing in Pakistan? What have Muslims been banned from in Pakistan? Are Muslims being persecuted in Pakistan?

Pakistan is a *Muslim* state, not an *Islamic* one. We shouldn't forget that. Many a times, we tend to confuse the two.

Ever since the fall of the Ottoman caliphate in 1924, there hasn't been a Islamic government or state besides the Taliban, but you people even despise the Taliban so i'm confused as to what kind of "Islamic state" you want :?:

Just on the other thread i read your post in which you praised skinny jeans and how your fond of them, show's how Islamic you are yourself.

http://pashtunforums.com/viewtopic.php? ... 1983a#p974

Its been stated in Quran that a Muslimah must wear loose clothing:

narrated by the companion Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him: the Prophet of Allah PBUH said:
"There are two categories among the inhabitants of Hell-fire whom I have not encountered yet: women who are clothed yet naked, swaying, may be in the way they walk, or diverted from the straight path and enticing others, their heads look like the humps of swaying camels, they will neither enter Paradise nor even smell its fragrance. the other category are men who carry whips like the tail of cows with which they beat people." (Sahih Muslim)

http://raysofknowledge.blogspot.com/
http://en.islamtoday.net/artshow-382-3299.htm

Surah 24:31 And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

Its army is/was supposedly the 7th largest in the world, and how long did it take them to help the Taliban-dominated region?

It took Pakistan Army 10 months to clear Taliban from SWAT valley and South Waziristan, while America and NATO have been in Afghanistan for almost 10 years and they can't handle Taliban. We did a pretty good job considering the amount of limited resources we had and our weak economy.

Even now, how many *real* Taliban have they killed? How many Taliban *leaders* have been killed? I don't buy the "hey, they imprisoned Muslim Khan! Woot woot" crap; we need him, Muslim Khan, and the other main leaders dead. Killed.

for now, they're being interrogated.

They caused the displacement of over 2.5 million Pashtuns, and what did Pakistan do about it? Every day, we hear that they killed such and such militant; oh, really?

Yes really, Pashtuns of SWAT valley have returned to their homes, Taliban are only launching desperate suicide attacks, they can no longer launch large scale attacks like they did before.

It's another thing, however, when people say, "I hate Punjabis," or "Punjabis are bad." That's just generalization and racism, in my opinion, and I think it's narrow-mindedness as well. It's unfair to blame an entire group of people for the faults of a certain faction among them.

[/quote]

agreed.

[Sayyaf_Khan]

Re: Pakistan debate

There is no debate on Pakistan, it is destined to become history as history will prove in the coming years.

A lot of ISI stooges come to Pashtuns forums and pretend to be Pashtuns by adding Khan to their name though they are the worst enemies of Pashtuns

lol, oh yeah i'm a "ISI stooge pretending to be Pashtun". From your post it seems to me you dream a little bit too much.

I came here not to bring any animosity or hatred, but you in return accuse me of nonsense which you can't back up with proof other than your own words. :lol: