Pakistan debate

[pir_Rokhan]

Re: Pakistan debate

although i do agree with you somewhat, but you can't say Pashtuns are treated bad everywhere in Pakistan!
In Karachi those MQM b@st@rds have always been hell bent on creating problems for our people, but that doesn't mean its like that everywhere!

Pashtuns have a very prominent role and place in Pakistan's society. Pashtuns make up 36% of Pakistan's armed forces, Pakistan's previous presidents have been Pashtuns (Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan), Pakistan's famous nuclear scientist and National Hero Dr. Abdul Qadir Khan is a Pashtun, and every Pakistani dearly loves him

Look what they have taught you.

MQM ,was itself a product of Military regime of Chowdry Zia to counter Peoples’ party. The establishment used the non submitting nature and poverty of Pashtuns to have another card which they could use any time to justify another military coup. There is nothing wrong if MQM asks for Provincial autonomy or their rights, their mafia role however has to be condemned but the biggest mafia of Pakistan is not MQM it is Pakistan Army. Read Ayesha Sidiqa book Military Incorporated. Pakistan Army is an army with a country while other countries have armies.

Regarding Pakhtuns,the big favor which you have mentioned is nothing via a vis their exploitation of water resources, electricity ,minerals,gas,their culture, language and traditions which have been ruined by the Pakistani banana state. Even Pashtuns do not have name for their united province within Pakistan and for that too they have to beg Punjabis approval. What a shameful life in a shameful country it is. If Pakhtuns ask for theirs rights they are labelled by Punjabi elite and their slaves in all provinces as traitors etc.If they are happy to live like slaves of Punjabi army and other institutions they are called patriot.

Even what have the poor people of Punjab benefitted from Pakistan. Most of the South Punjab seems to be a 15th century medieval land. The villagers in North Punjab are at the mercy of their Fuedals.They think that their sold out army generals will save their life. It is such a merciful state of affairs.

Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were not Pakhtuns.Every person who has suffix as Khan is not necessarily a Pashtun.They were Qazalbash.

[Proudpashtun]

Re: Pakistan debate

^They were really Qazalbash?

[pir_Rokhan]

Re: Pakistan debate

Pakistan is a good country, but I have noticed my Pukhtun brothers are treated very,very bad in Pakistan.

I read some interviews of Pashtuns from Pakistan in BBC and they all said they were considered bad, and all the Pakistani's here seem to conclude me to the fact that they are horribly treated.

I think Pashtuns only enjoy political elite status in Afghanistan where they have been in rule since its inception.

although i do agree with you somewhat, but you can't say Pashtuns are treated bad everywhere in Pakistan!
In Karachi those MQM b@st@rds have always been hell bent on creating problems for our people, but that doesn't mean its like that everywhere!

Pashtuns have a very prominent role and place in Pakistan's society. Pashtuns make up 36% of Pakistan's armed forces, Pakistan's previous presidents have been Pashtuns (Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan), Pakistan's famous nuclear scientist and National Hero Dr. Abdul Qadir Khan is a Pashtun, and every Pakistani dearly loves him

AQ Khan is not Pashtun, It would be great if he was but he is not.

provide a source for your claim of him being Pashtun(Afghan)

Shlombay

AQ Khan was the son of a Pakhtun scholar Ghafoor Khan who settled in Karachi after emigrating from Bhopal [One of the 4 Pakhtun populated state in india.Mostly Yousafzai and Afridis were in Bhopal].You can google him as a matter of common sense to know about him more.

[Sayyaf_Khan]

Re: Do you hate Pakistan?

Chowdry Sayyaf sahib


You have assumed that what ever you have studied in Pakistan studies is sacred revelation and any other genuine argument is like a blasphemy.

I've grown up in America, so i am western educated (not Pakistani), i have looked and studied Pakistan and its history from a neutral perspective, i don't need some Pakistani hater to tell me what my country is.

1) Indian support for Russia during Afghan war was very justified. India is a respectable member of N.A.M and has been anti imperialists so was the Dr Najib’s govt.

Do you mean the same Soviet Russia that slaughtered more than 1 million and a half Afghans?

While Pakistan’s support of USA was just for US dollars.

The same goes for Karzai and the Afghan government, they are only for dollars. Instead of pointing fingers at Pakistan, you might want to fix your own home up first. There is a saying "When you point a finger at others, your own three fingers point back at you".

Every one knows it and admits it. There is so much literature on it. What Pakistan gained from supporting US in Afghan war.Nothing.It was just Chowdry Zia act to strengthen and legitimise his regime. It gave death, destruction and Kalashnikov culture to Pakistan. Ask Punjabi journalists. Even they have admitted it. Ask Nazir Naji about Ojri camp. Ask your hero Hameed Gul.Ask that stereotype Brig Imam. All these criminals even admit that in the long run Pakistan dint gain anything. Have a heart in addition to a brain.

Yep, these same criminals helped to liberate your country from the Russians.

I have a heart and brain, at least i'm not the racist one using racist remarks such as "Punjabi journalists".

2) BLA is a freedom fighter organization against the illegal occupation of Punjab. Ever man of conscience should support it. Visit http://www.Balochwarna.com to read about it. So your wrong assumptions and misconceptions are cleared.

Just because you said so i should believe? BTW, if Pakistan was committing genocide and human rights violations then this would be no secret event, indian media would be very quick in picking up this event and defaming Pakistan.

Shaikh Mujib was the bone of contention in the eyes of then military and now his movement of freedom which succeeded is disliked by the peon of the military.

Do you mean the same Mujib who was later killed by his own Bengali countrymen? I hope you know that all those who betrayed and harmed Pakistan in 1971 were killed by their own people: Indira Ghandi killed by Sikh indians, Mujib killed by Bengalis, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto executed by General Zia. It doesn't end here: Akbar Bughti of BLA killed by Pakistani commandos, Abdullah Mehsud of TTP killed by Pakistan army, Baithullah Mehsud killed by an unintentional drone strike, Hakeemullah Mehsud killed by unintentional drone strike, etc etc etc....

Bengal is free now.Balochistan; Pakhtunkhwa and Sind are in line.

not even in your dreams, lol keep dreaming my boy :lol:

3) MQM was the product of your beloved ISI and army under Chowdry Zia to counter People's party.

Nobody thought those MQM ****s would turn out violent.

4) Why is that you praise Taliban in Afghanistan as they are your puppets, the puppets of your military and ISI,of Naseerullah Babar and Col Imam type morons.

When did i praise Taliban? provide me the post in which i praised them?

you don't even have proof to back up your childish claim.

You hate TTP because one faction among them has turned against your banana state.

TTP were always against us, their first leader who created them was Abdullah Mehsud, he was against Pakistan.

As for Bananas, at least we have them :mrgreen:

What double standards are these?. When Pakistan make Afghans orphan by doing terrorist activities

We didn't make Afghans orphans, Russia did, after that the Afghan warlords, and now America and NATO.

then they are happy and when your Punjabi masters's families are affected you start ranting against TTP- who were your own product. What a shame?

My master is Allah.

5) Pakistan has always intervened into the affairs of Afghanistan on the contrary. What a devil's advocacy this is?

Yes, it was Pakistan who gave Russia the permission to invade Afghanistan. speaking of intervention, it was Zahir Shah who wanted to break away NWFP and FATA from Pakistan.

6) I agree Pakistan has improved relations with Iran and have also committed proliferation as you admitted yourself. This is what exactly world is concerned about. Iran’s theocratic govt is as fanatic as your fundamentalist parties like JUI, JI, Tablighi Jummat which have been the nurseries of extremism and terrorism.

yes we gave nuke tech to Libya, Iran, and North Korea. But America gave nuke tech to israel and is providing nuke tech to india, why should we let our enemies have the advantage?

7) No one has asked to Pakistan to stabilise Afghanistan. It should first stabilise herself then should think about others.

Karzai himself said that Pakistan's stability lies with a peaceful Afghanistan.

You have not established " Khilafata Rashida" of Taliban which you suggest for Afghanistan here in Pakistan that you are concerned about Pakistan.

Where do you come up with all this pure BS? did i say any of the above?

8) Afghanistan is a sovereign state established 200 years earlier than Pakistan [revised version 1971].Pakistan has no right to dictate her policies or install their puppets like Taliban and Hikmatyar type of ISI stooges there.

And neither does Afghanistan have the right to let india use its soil against Pakistan.

9) India has helped Afghanistan in Infrastructure and other fields being the world growing economy and a world fastest IT resource hub for the whole world.

You also forgot to add that india is the only country in the world with the largest number of aids infected people (increasing everyday), india has more than 400,000,000+ people living, sleeping, and sh!tting on the streets of its cities, also more than half of indias population (population of india is more than 1 billion people) lives under the global poverty line, most indians lack toilets in their homes, there are more than 10 million underage prostitutes in india (most of them being muslim girls forced into sex slavery), india also has ethnic riots and ethnic violence and religious violence (for example Gujrat massacre where 4,000+ Muslims were killed and burned alive).

lol, seriously, who do you think your fooling? india is not in Afghanistan to build "infrastructure", especially when they have more than enough poverty in their own filthy country! India has one simple reason to be in Afghanistan, and that is to destroy Pakistan.

Pakistan on the contrary is the hub of terrorists and suicide bombers and has been involved in killing and genocide of Pashtuns and Afghans for the last 30 years.

Yep, and that is why Pakistan allowed more than 5 million Afghan refuges into Pakistan, and this is also the reason why Pakistan has more Pashtuns than Afghanistan does. After all, Pakistan is killing Pashtuns and this is the reason why Pashtun population is increasing in Pakistan :lol:


Listen Chaudry Rokhan sahib, your post, its all full of BS and hatred! :lol: , how are you telling me what my country is? You couldn't even refute my posts so you resorted to name calling, shows your ability to cope with the truth. Though, my country might be a "banana" as you call it, but at least we have enough food to fill our stomachs, at least we don't have to sell our daughters for a few $$.

But i understand your jealousy! :lol:

[Sayyaf_Khan]

Re: Pakistan debate

[quote=pir_Rokhan]

although i do agree with you somewhat, but you can't say Pashtuns are treated bad everywhere in Pakistan!
In Karachi those MQM b@st@rds have always been hell bent on creating problems for our people, but that doesn't mean its like that everywhere!

Pashtuns have a very prominent role and place in Pakistan's society. Pashtuns make up 36% of Pakistan's armed forces, Pakistan's previous presidents have been Pashtuns (Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan), Pakistan's famous nuclear scientist and National Hero Dr. Abdul Qadir Khan is a Pashtun, and every Pakistani dearly loves him

Look what they have taught you.

MQM ,was itself a product of Military regime of Chowdry Zia to counter Peoples’ party. The establishment used the non submitting nature and poverty of Pashtuns to have another card which they could use any time to justify another military coup. There is nothing wrong if MQM asks for Provincial autonomy or their rights, their mafia role however has to be condemned but the biggest mafia of Pakistan is not MQM it is Pakistan Army. Read Ayesha Sidiqa book Military Incorporated. Pakistan Army is an army with a country while other countries have armies.

Regarding Pakhtuns,the big favor which you have mentioned is nothing via a vis their exploitation of water resources, electricity ,minerals,gas,their culture, language and traditions which have been ruined by the Pakistani banana state. Even Pashtuns do not have name for their united province within Pakistan and for that too they have to beg Punjabis approval. What a shameful life in a shameful country it is. If Pakhtuns ask for theirs rights they are labelled by Punjabi elite and their slaves in all provinces as traitors etc.If they are happy to live like slaves of Punjabi army and other institutions they are called patriot.

Even what have the poor people of Punjab benefitted from Pakistan. Most of the South Punjab seems to be a 15th century medieval land. The villagers in North Punjab are at the mercy of their Fuedals.They think that their sold out army generals will save their life. It is such a merciful state of affairs.

Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were not Pakhtuns.Every person who has suffix as Khan is not necessarily a Pashtun.They were Qazalbash.[/quote:c6p0nxxt]


lol, sorry mr. Chaudry Sahib, i didn't even need to read your filthy post, its full of BS and emotions.

take care now :D

[Sayyaf_Khan]

Re: Do you hate Pakistan?

Chowdry Sayyaf sahib


You have assumed that what ever you have studied in Pakistan studies is sacred revelation and any other genuine argument is like a blasphemy.

I've grown up in America, so i am western educated (not Pakistani), i have looked and studied Pakistan and its history from a neutral perspective, i don't need some Pakistani hater to tell me what my country is.

1) Indian support for Russia during Afghan war was very justified. India is a respectable member of N.A.M and has been anti imperialists so was the Dr Najib’s govt.

Do you mean the same Soviet Russia that slaughtered more than 1 million and a half Afghans?

While Pakistan’s support of USA was just for US dollars.

The same goes for Karzai and the Afghan government, they are only for dollars. Instead of pointing fingers at Pakistan, you might want to fix your own home up first. There is a saying "When you point a finger at others, your own three fingers point back at you".

Every one knows it and admits it. There is so much literature on it. What Pakistan gained from supporting US in Afghan war.Nothing.It was just Chowdry Zia act to strengthen and legitimise his regime. It gave death, destruction and Kalashnikov culture to Pakistan. Ask Punjabi journalists. Even they have admitted it. Ask Nazir Naji about Ojri camp. Ask your hero Hameed Gul.Ask that stereotype Brig Imam. All these criminals even admit that in the long run Pakistan dint gain anything. Have a heart in addition to a brain.

Yep, these same criminals helped to liberate your country from the Russians.

I have a heart and brain, at least i'm not the racist one using racist remarks such as "Punjabi journalists".

2) BLA is a freedom fighter organization against the illegal occupation of Punjab. Ever man of conscience should support it. Visit http://www.Balochwarna.com to read about it. So your wrong assumptions and misconceptions are cleared.

Just because you said so i should believe? BTW, if Pakistan was committing genocide and human rights violations then this would be no secret event, indian media would be very quick in picking up this event and defaming Pakistan.

Shaikh Mujib was the bone of contention in the eyes of then military and now his movement of freedom which succeeded is disliked by the peon of the military.

Do you mean the same Mujib who was later killed by his own Bengali countrymen? I hope you know that all those who betrayed and harmed Pakistan in 1971 were killed by their own people: Indira Ghandi killed by Sikh indians, Mujib killed by Bengalis, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto executed by General Zia. It doesn't end here: Akbar Bughti of BLA killed by Pakistani commandos, Abdullah Mehsud of TTP killed by Pakistan army, Baithullah Mehsud killed by an unintentional drone strike, Hakeemullah Mehsud killed by unintentional drone strike, etc etc etc....

Bengal is free now.Balochistan; Pakhtunkhwa and Sind are in line.

not even in your dreams, lol keep dreaming my boy :lol:

3) MQM was the product of your beloved ISI and army under Chowdry Zia to counter People's party.

Nobody thought those MQM ****s would turn out violent.

4) Why is that you praise Taliban in Afghanistan as they are your puppets, the puppets of your military and ISI,of Naseerullah Babar and Col Imam type morons.

When did i praise Taliban? provide me the post in which i praised them?

you don't even have proof to back up your childish claim.

You hate TTP because one faction among them has turned against your banana state.

TTP were always against us, their first leader who created them was Abdullah Mehsud, he was against Pakistan.

As for Bananas, at least we have them :mrgreen:

What double standards are these?. When Pakistan make Afghans orphan by doing terrorist activities

We didn't make Afghans orphans, Russia did, after that the Afghan warlords, and now America and NATO.

then they are happy and when your Punjabi masters's families are affected you start ranting against TTP- who were your own product. What a shame?

My master is Allah.

5) Pakistan has always intervened into the affairs of Afghanistan on the contrary. What a devil's advocacy this is?

Yes, it was Pakistan who gave Russia the permission to invade Afghanistan. speaking of intervention, it was Zahir Shah who wanted to break away NWFP and FATA from Pakistan.

6) I agree Pakistan has improved relations with Iran and have also committed proliferation as you admitted yourself. This is what exactly world is concerned about. Iran’s theocratic govt is as fanatic as your fundamentalist parties like JUI, JI, Tablighi Jummat which have been the nurseries of extremism and terrorism.

yes we gave nuke tech to Libya, Iran, and North Korea. But America gave nuke tech to israel and is providing nuke tech to india, why should we let our enemies have the advantage?

7) No one has asked to Pakistan to stabilise Afghanistan. It should first stabilise herself then should think about others.

Karzai himself said that Pakistan's stability lies with a peaceful Afghanistan.

You have not established " Khilafata Rashida" of Taliban which you suggest for Afghanistan here in Pakistan that you are concerned about Pakistan.

Where do you come up with all this pure BS? did i say any of the above?

8) Afghanistan is a sovereign state established 200 years earlier than Pakistan [revised version 1971].Pakistan has no right to dictate her policies or install their puppets like Taliban and Hikmatyar type of ISI stooges there.

And neither does Afghanistan have the right to let india use its soil against Pakistan.

9) India has helped Afghanistan in Infrastructure and other fields being the world growing economy and a world fastest IT resource hub for the whole world.

You also forgot to add that india is the only country in the world with the largest number of aids infected people (increasing everyday), india has more than 400,000,000+ people living, sleeping, and sh!tting on the streets of its cities, also more than half of indias population (population of india is more than 1 billion people) lives under the global poverty line, most indians lack toilets in their homes, there are more than 10 million underage prostitutes in india (most of them being muslim girls forced into sex slavery), india also has ethnic riots and ethnic violence and religious violence (for example Gujrat massacre where 4,000+ Muslims were killed and burned alive).

lol, seriously, who do you think your fooling? india is not in Afghanistan to build "infrastructure", especially when they have more than enough poverty in their own filthy country! India has one simple reason to be in Afghanistan, and that is to destroy Pakistan.

Pakistan on the contrary is the hub of terrorists and suicide bombers and has been involved in killing and genocide of Pashtuns and Afghans for the last 30 years.

[/quote]

Yep, and that is why Pakistan allowed more than 5 million Afghan refuges into Pakistan, and this is also the reason why Pakistan has more Pashtuns than Afghanistan does. After all, Pakistan is killing Pashtuns and this is the reason why Pashtun population is increasing in Pakistan :lol:


Listen Chaudry Rokhan sahib, your post, its all full of BS and hatred! :lol: , how are you telling me what my country is? You couldn't even refute my posts so you resorted to name calling, shows your ability to cope with the truth. Though, my country might be a "banana" as you call it, but at least we have enough food to fill our stomachs, at least we don't have to sell our daughters for a few $$.

But i understand your jealousy! :lol:

If you insult my country, i will do the same to you!

[pir_Rokhan]

Re: Pakistan debate

[quote=Sayyaf_Khan][quote="pir_Rokhan":1qdwvb1d]

although i do agree with you somewhat, but you can't say Pashtuns are treated bad everywhere in Pakistan!
In Karachi those MQM b@st@rds have always been hell bent on creating problems for our people, but that doesn't mean its like that everywhere!

Pashtuns have a very prominent role and place in Pakistan's society. Pashtuns make up 36% of Pakistan's armed forces, Pakistan's previous presidents have been Pashtuns (Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan), Pakistan's famous nuclear scientist and National Hero Dr. Abdul Qadir Khan is a Pashtun, and every Pakistani dearly loves him

Look what they have taught you.

MQM ,was itself a product of Military regime of Chowdry Zia to counter Peoples’ party. The establishment used the non submitting nature and poverty of Pashtuns to have another card which they could use any time to justify another military coup. There is nothing wrong if MQM asks for Provincial autonomy or their rights, their mafia role however has to be condemned but the biggest mafia of Pakistan is not MQM it is Pakistan Army. Read Ayesha Sidiqa book Military Incorporated. Pakistan Army is an army with a country while other countries have armies.

Regarding Pakhtuns,the big favor which you have mentioned is nothing via a vis their exploitation of water resources, electricity ,minerals,gas,their culture, language and traditions which have been ruined by the Pakistani banana state. Even Pashtuns do not have name for their united province within Pakistan and for that too they have to beg Punjabis approval. What a shameful life in a shameful country it is. If Pakhtuns ask for theirs rights they are labelled by Punjabi elite and their slaves in all provinces as traitors etc.If they are happy to live like slaves of Punjabi army and other institutions they are called patriot.

Even what have the poor people of Punjab benefitted from Pakistan. Most of the South Punjab seems to be a 15th century medieval land. The villagers in North Punjab are at the mercy of their Fuedals.They think that their sold out army generals will save their life. It is such a merciful state of affairs.

Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were not Pakhtuns.Every person who has suffix as Khan is not necessarily a Pashtun.They were Qazalbash.[/quote:1qdwvb1d]


lol, sorry mr. Chaudry Sahib, i didn't even need to read your filthy post, its full of BS and emotions.

take care now :D[/quote:1qdwvb1d]

It is so easy to pass verdicts when you cannot face the truth.I wish you had studied these facts too in your "nuetral" study but then it is difficult to idolise the sacred cow with so many limitations.

Its okay You do a little research on these points and enlighten us about your ABCD wisdom.
I will wait for you.I will overlook your language for the time being.

[Master Khan]

Re: Pakistan debate

Pakistan can be a great and power country but all it needs is a good and smart goverment...which Pakistan never Had

[Sayyaf_Khan]

Re: Pakistan debate

Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were not Pakhtuns.Every person who has suffix as Khan is not necessarily a Pashtun.They were Qazalbash.

Oh really? that's not what this article says:

"A more insightful fact is that out of the 11 chiefs of the army, four have been Pashtuns (Generals Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Gul Hasan Khan and Waheed Kakar), leading the institution for a total of 18 years (Dawn, October 13). Two of them imposed martial law and remained presidents of Pakistan. Ayub Khan, the first Pakistani commander-in-chief of the army, remained at the helm of affairs for eight years as army chief (1951-58) and an additional 11 years as head of the country (1958-69) (Dawn, October 13). Ayub Khan also promoted himself to field marshal in 1965 and is credited with developing the army into one of the most resourceful and powerful institutions in the country. If it is any indicator of his legacy, his hand-painted portrait can often be seen on the back of the trucks driving from one side of the country to the other—as the transport business overwhelming is in the hands of the Pashtuns."

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=953

See, i proved you wrong again. Go teach your lies to someone more gullible! All, your posts are full of lies and childish claims!

[Master Khan]

Re: Pakistan debate

Right now Pakistan NEEDS MARTIAL LAW and fast because this goverment is going no where.
But the current Army cheif is a coward.

[pir_Rokhan]

Re: Do you hate Pakistan?

1) I've grown up in America, so i am western educated (not Pakistani), i have looked and studied Pakistan and its history from a neutral perspective, i don't need some Pakistani hater to tell me what my country is.

1) Well I am not interested in your country; the problem is that you have only studied the Punjabi version which is against academic ethics. I do not have any problem if you love Pakistan, the problem is that you call a black a white. By the way I am in the most focused and dangerous area of your beloved country and while you would have read about Pakistan, I have seen and experienced it with my own eyes. Love is blind but it does not mean it blind everyone around too.

2) Do you mean the same Soviet Russia that slaughtered more than 1 million and a half Afghans?

2) Russia was invited by Dr Najib’s progressive govt, my dear. Please read the historic archives. It was help by an ideological ally. Just read the steps of Najib’s govt and reforms during that golden era. The reason for the human loss of lives was not that Russia wanted to kill but it was Pakistan idea to involve US and put a stop to revolution. Zia being a dictator wanted to legitimise his regime. If you don’t understand this basic idea then your blind love will conceal every fact of life around you. Please read “The Bear Trap” by MARK EDKIN and Brig YUSUF of Pakistan Army. WILLIAM CASEY was the CIA chief at that time. I am not fond of refuting your argument for fun, as you are enjoying life over there in US it is our poor people both in Afghanistan and Pakistan who are getting killed every day due to the power elite who benefits from this type of imperialistic logic which you are trying to learn.

3) The same goes for Karzai and the Afghan government, they are only for dollars. Instead of pointing fingers at Pakistan, you might want to fix your own home up first. There is a saying "When you point a finger at others, your own three fingers point back at you".

3) This is immature thinking pattern but to encourage you to continue your “neutral study”, I am sure you know that Karzai is from an Aristocratic and well off family and was working in Halliburton in US. His is the son of former higher official in Afghan politics. Why would he involve himself in the most dangerous geostrategic game that too in a country which is surrounded by enemies and which has been war struck for 3 decades? So while I am not saying he is perfect or his team consists of angels, the points which I raised about Pakistan are admitted by more Pakistanis than Pashtuns.

Pakistan Army kill innocent people and tell the world that they killed terrorists and get more bucks from the world and from US. Even if they had invested this money in the welfare of common man still this would not have been justified by any law of ethics or morality but the bitter truth is that all that money for earthquakes, GWOT etc has been invested in strengthening the army empire in Pakistan not in the welfare of common man or even low rank army personnel. Come here to your country from which you do not prefer despite claiming its blind love as it is a living hell for common people and see for yourself the empire of Fauji Foundation, Fauji Fertlizer, Army Real Estate schemes, Army welfare Trust and so much. While poor people in Punjab sell or kill their kids due to poverty. It is not reasoning for the sake of reasoning just watch GEO TV for example. You will know it yourself.

4) Yep, these same criminals helped to liberate your country from the Russians.

4) As I told you Pakistani army and ISI did not liberate Afghanistan. Your army was not there in the Anglo Afghan wars, Your ISI was not there when Greeks came, Your MI was not there when Mongols came ,neither did Pakistani COAS fought in Panipat and defeated Marhattas army. Afghans are one invincible people about whom Alexander had written to his mother that You have given birth to one Alexander while the region [current day Afghanistan] where I am fighting has every kid as brave as Alexander .Afghans have lots of limitations but they know how to safeguard their freedom. They, by nature, cannot be subdued. Ghani Khan says:

Mung pa plar nika dee za marzay karoona karay
Za ba ghulam nasham ka ghulam shee tol jahan

About the crimes of Pakistan army against humanity I agree with you but not about the point that they liberated Afghanistan. They were there to destroy Afghanistan for US money and legalization of Military regime of Zia at that time.

5) I have a heart and brain, at least i'm not the racist one using racist remarks such as "Punjabi journalists".

5) What you call racist remarks, my naïve hyper friend, is in political context not in the context of how you use it against Blacks, for example, in US or against Jewish in ME or anti Semitics in German literature. As the elite class is from North Punjab hence any political analyst use this term to point out that particular class which consists of military and civil beaureocracy,media and clergy from Punjab. I am not against a common Punjabi poor man whose life is made hell due to his feudal lord. Google my id I have written more literature for that oppressed class than anyone else who might claim to be a Pakistani but serving the malicious designs of the cruel and killers of Pakistani military elite.

6) Just because you said so i should believe? BTW, if Pakistan was committing genocide and human rights violations then this would be no secret event, Indian media would be very quick in picking up this event and defaming Pakistan.

6) Well I gave you the link www.balochwarna.com. You can check it. The case of Baloch is more critical as they do not consider the state of Pakistan in the first place and have already declared their freedom and are fighting against the illegal occupation of Pakistan [as Pakistani media project India to be].Indian media is full of its news. Any freedom figher would love to be helped by any country or state. India might be Pakistan’s enemy but the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Hence India is their friend and should be their friend. History is replete with such examples. The traitor of one nation is the hero of another.Paksitani leader were the traitors of United India as they divided it. While the same are being adored as heroes of freedom by Pakistani media.

How true was Einstein when he said every thing is relative in his thesis on relativity in 1905. Pakhtuns, on the contrary are just asking for provincial autonomy and their legal rights, unfortunately. They have not yet started the freedom struggle in the real meaning of the term. India doesn’t pick up much news from Baloch leaders as most Baloch leaders are UK not in India. They expose the policies of Pakistan army the First world media of the world instead of telling it to a third world country.

7) Do you mean the same Mujib who was later killed by his own Bengali countrymen? I hope you know that all those who betrayed and harmed Pakistan in 1971 were killed by their own people: India Ghandi killed by Sikh Indians, Mujib killed by Bengalis, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto executed by General Zia. It doesn't end here: Akbar Bughti of BLA killed by Pakistani commandos, Abdullah Mehsud of TTP killed by Pakistan army, Baithullah Mehsud killed by an unintentional drone strike, Hakeemullah Mehsud killed by unintentional drone strike, etc etc etc....

7) LOL.Sometimes I like your naivety and innocence. My dear he just raise his voice for the rights of his people. East Pakistan was more in Population. They had a separate language. They had Production of Jute. They won the election and more seats. So they asked for their due rights which were not acceptable to Punjab. So what would they do? And see what you army did to the innocent Bengalis. They massacred them. Yes Massacred them, Kids, women, infacts, youngster, old and patients. Indiscriminate killing and genocide. It was for this that General Pervez had to ask for state level formal apology. But Bengalis are such a brave nation they lost millions of their lies but got freedom from oppression of their so called “Muslim “brother”.

Indira was not killed due to helping to liberate Bengal. It was completely separate issue. Sikhs in India are also struggling for freedom. You are sounding it like God is the killing all those who struggled for the rights of their people and raised voice against tyranny and oppression. ZAB was the only genuine leader this soil has produce among the non Pakhtun.The murder was a judicial and military murder by the “Khaleefa tul Muslimeen” dictator General Zia. Pakistani military being a servant of US never like any leader who has popular support as their chances for dictatorship becomes les and less. Today no one knows Zia but Bhutto will be remembered till Pakistan exists.

Akabr Bugti had remained on the highest post of Chief minister ship / Governor ship in Balochistan.But as I have explained, till a person is satisfied to play the role of peon and slave of Punjabi dominated army, they are okay but the moment they talk about the rights of their people they are called by the commandos of the Punjabi dominated army. The same is true for others too. The “unintentional drone attack” was from the God as he also doesn’t like anyone to raise his voice.

8) not even in your dreams, lol keep dreaming my boy :lol:

8) Well, the same was told to Bengalis too. Dude the laws of history do not work according to your “neutral study”. And trust me I was in uniform when you were in liquid form.

9) Nobody thought those MQM ****s would turn out violent.

9) So you mean ISI had created MQM to propagate Islam among Mahajirs or for the revival of “Shpag Nambaray".

10) When did i praise Taliban? Provide me the post in which i praised them? You don't even have proof to back up your childish claim.

10) By “you” I do not mean the second person singular pronoun in English Grammar, I mean Pakistan. Just watch any Paki channel; they project Taliban of Afghanistan as the shadows of Sahaba Karam and Angels without feathers while those who are dismantling the terrorist network of Pakistan as devils. Talk of double standard and hypocrisy of this nation.

11) TTP were always against us, their first leader who created them was Abdullah Mehsud, he was against Pakistan.

11) TTP was always the terrorist wing of ISI.The last meeting of TTP was conducted in F.C camp in FATA [an organ of Pakistani forces] to the media. I am sure you would have seen the program on Private TV channel. Now one faction has turned against the state and that’s why now you see bombs ion Punjab too now.Previosuly till that faction was under ISI the blast were just in Pakhtun and other areas not in Punjab. Google it, the program is available. Give Imran Khan and Taliban as the search in YouTube. Yesterday Shabaz Sharif said that “Taliban should not detonate bombs in Punjab”. How clearly this speaks of the fact that Pakistan has a serious ethnic and national issue base with axis as the interest of Punjab only.

12) We didn't make Afghans orphans, Russia did, after that the Afghan warlords, and now America and NATO.

12) You did not do it.huh? And which group was formed by Naseerullah Babar? Who sewed the Afghan clothes in Quetta for Pakistani army soldiers in the nineties? Who were trained by Col. Imam.? Who approved Budget for Afghanistan in Ghulam Ishaq presidency for Afghanistan?...the list goes on and on….Dude you need to know the facts instead of getting expert and well versed in propaganda. Better convey the message to those whom you like that the count down has begun, better revise and revisit your strategies.

13) My master is Allah.

13) If your master is Allah then do not advocate the devil.

14) Yes, it was Pakistan who gave Russia the permission to invade Afghanistan. speaking of intervention, it was Zahir Shah who wanted to break away NWFP and FATA from Pakistan.

14) I have explained this earlier. Russia was anti imperialist ally of Afghanistan and the govt in Afghanistan was also anti imperialist. This well documented fact. Afghans and Pashtuns both do not accept Durand Line. We were only part of freedom struggle against British not part of Indian Division.Khudai Khidmatgars had boycotted the election and North and Central Pakhtunkhwa [NWFP and FATA] were fakely merged into Pakisatn.There was no third option in plebeite.We neither wanted to merge with India nor Pakistan . Both are the same people with Hindi and Arabic words difference in their rituals. We are separate people and have always have been part of Afghanistan. We are not Dravidians.

15) yes we gave nuke tech to Libya, Iran, and North Korea. But America gave nuke tech to Israel and is providing nuke tech to India, why should we let our enemies have the advantage?

15) Well I agree with this. Pakistan has sold nuclear technology to Libya, N.Korea and Iran. Now is the time to face the music. Thanks to the Pakhtun from Bhopal to make Pakistan a nuclear state.

16) Karzai himself said that Pakistan's stability lies with a peaceful Afghanistan.

16) He meant that if you do not let us stabilise then do not dream of any stability in your country too. This is the meaning of calling Afghanistan and Pakistan as twin brothers too. If one suffers other has to suffer. He has not done a “neutral study” he understands diplomatic language.

17) Where do you come up with all this pure BS? did i say any of the above?

17) Well I meant that Pakistan seems to be concerned about Afghanistan so much as if it has achieved all the benchmarks of stability and indictors of progress and prosperity in its own country. There is a concept called satire in English literature. I am sure it is not forbidden for the Pakistani student to learn it even if he is sitting in the US.

18) And neither does Afghanistan have the right to let India use its soil against Pakistan.

18) Afghanistan is a sovereign country and will plan according to her national interests not according to the ISPR propaganda disseminated to the 170 million in a variety of styles with versatile colors of lie and flavors of falsehood to deceive the poor masses.

19) You also forgot to add that india is the only country in the world with the largest number of aids infected people (increasing everyday), india has more than 400,000,000+ people living, sleeping, and sh!tting on the streets of its cities, also more than half of indias population (population of india is more than 1 billion people) lives under the global poverty line, most indians lack toilets in their homes, there are more than 10 million underage prostitutes in india (most of them being muslim girls forced into sex slavery), india also has ethnic riots and ethnic violence and religious violence (for example Gujrat massacre where 4,000+ Muslims were killed and burned alive). lol, seriously, who do you think your fooling? india is not in Afghanistan to build "infrastructure", especially when they have more than enough poverty in their own filthy country! India has one simple reason to be in Afghanistan, and that is to destroy Pakistan.

19) These stats are worst for Pakistan. It is the question of magnitude. You can’t manage 170 million just imagine the problem and issues of India - world’s largest democracy with 1200 million people. We Afghan across Durand line [lar aw bar] do not intervene into the internal affairs of any country. All these stats is the problem of India none of our business. The thing which is related to Afghans is what I mentioned. You can cross check it using any method of applying the falsification principle.Check the Afghanistan official website. Afghanistan is not what is projected in Pakistani media.

20)Yep, and that is why Pakistan allowed more than 5 million Afghan refuges into Pakistan, and this is also the reason why Pakistan has more Pashtuns than Afghanistan does. After all, Pakistan is killing Pashtuns and this is the reason why Pashtun population is increasing in Pakistan: lol:

20) Pakistan got money for the death and destruction of Afghans during the Afghan war and now pocketing money from UN for their miserable life.

21) Listen Chaudry Rokhan sahib, your post, its all full of BS and hatred! :lol: , how are you telling me what my country is? You couldn't even refute my posts so you resorted to name calling, shows your ability to cope with the truth. Though, my country might be a "banana" as you call it, but at least we have enough food to fill our stomachs, at least we don't have to sell our daughters for a few $$.But i understand your jealousy! :lol: If you insult my country, i will do the same to you![/quote]

21) Dude you need to grow up.Da lemar ranra pa gutta na pattegee.

[pir_Rokhan]

Re: Pakistan debate

[quote=Sayyaf_Khan][quote="pir_Rokhan":2kwrfoe4][b]Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were not Pakhtuns.Every person who has suffix as Khan is not necessarily a Pashtun.They were Qazalbash.[/b][/quote]

Oh really? that's not what this article says:

"[b]A more insightful fact is that out of the 11 chiefs of the army, four have been Pashtuns (Generals Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Gul Hasan Khan and Waheed Kakar)[/b], leading the institution for a total of 18 years (Dawn, October 13). Two of them imposed martial law and remained presidents of Pakistan. Ayub Khan, the first Pakistani commander-in-chief of the army, remained at the helm of affairs for eight years as army chief (1951-58) and an additional 11 years as head of the country (1958-69) (Dawn, October 13). Ayub Khan also promoted himself to field marshal in 1965 and is credited with developing the army into one of the most resourceful and powerful institutions in the country. If it is any indicator of his legacy, his hand-painted portrait can often be seen on the back of the trucks driving from one side of the country to the other—as the transport business overwhelming is in the hands of the Pashtuns."

[url="http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews"]http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[/url][tt_news]=953

See, i proved you wrong again. Go teach your lies to someone more gullible! All, your posts are full of lies and childish claims![/quote:2kwrfoe4]

Dude,I am not here to teach you or any one else.Not my cup of tea.

Two ignorant people can say the same thing.This is a mathematical probability.
Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were same Khan in the same sense as you claim one by your id.This means that they were not ethnically Khans but just were khans as a virtue of living in Pakhtunkhwa.Originally Yahya was Agha Yahya and Ayub was from a Qazalbash family migrated from Central Asia.

The source you have pasted considers anyone from NWFP as Pakthun in the territorial sense not in ethnci sense.May I tell you that this copy paste business which you are fond of is considered a lower third level of research methodolgy.So better to argue If you are interested in that then one can copy paste the whole wiki but I think that will not help.I hope you you consider my points seriously,though I dont mind if you neglect them to make yourself happy

Good night.I will see you tomorrow..Its 2 am in the night.Have a nice day.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Re: Pakistan debate

Ayub was a Hazarewal, there's no doubt regarding that. Now many Hazarewal claim Pashtun ancestry but that's another matter altogether....

[Marwat]

Re: Pakistan debate

After reading all the replies, seems like my views on Pakistan changed A LOT.

Keep it up guys!

[Talal]

Re: Pakistan debate

I am not myself too knowledgable about how Afghans think of Pakistanis, but i was at one of these forums and guys over there seem to hate Pakistan, i dont think even the Israelis hated us as much as they did. So please educate me on that subject

And this is a quote from one of the Afghan's on that forum regarding the recent bombing in Lahore

"If Lahor is in Pakistan then im throwing a big party tomorrow"

http://www.****************/showpost.ph ... stcount=17

I personally do not hate Afghanis, as a matter of fact one of my best friends ( May his soul rest in peace ) was Afghan so i dont get it how come people in Afghans hate Pakistanis ?