Taliban

[MDresden]

No, but if you take a moment to realize what I wrote earlier, you may sense the realism of it all.

[faye]

i couldn't work it out either. what you sayin boy?

[Whisley 2-6]

1. If it's a well known established fact[backed by the London School of Economics]that Pakistan's spy agency advertently funds the Taliban, then why kill and attack innocent Afghans in Afghanistan? Wouldn't it logically make sense, that in order to eradicate a problem, you must stop it's source of funding and support[hint:Pakistan]?

2. Also, do you really think you are fighting against the Taliban now? Or are you fighting against regular Afghans whom are extremely upset at NATO for killing their 5 year old daughter, or perhaps blowing up their house for no reason?

3. And if you wish to argue that Americans are trying to bring stability into Afghanistan, then I must say that is similar to taking the anti-derivative of velocity, in search of acceleration[it won't work]. You can't install corrupt war-lords as governors, and expect a government to succeed. This is similar to installing a MS13 Gang-leader as the mayor of New York. Do you not think a chaos will instantaneously erupt, if such is the case in the US? The aforementioned is exactly what we witnessed in Afghanistan. All the corrupt officials that left Afghanistan for war crimes, returned under the support and umbrella of the USA. I must confess, that is sad and unfortunate.

4. Also, you can't marginalize the Pashtun ethnic group and expect to have a proper Afghan government.

5. If you really want to see Afghanistan succeed, the last thing you should be doing is naming operations with Farsi words in the South. Afghans aren't xenophobic to foreigners. Heck, they have greeted every nation in the world due to it's strategic location. However, when Pashtuns see Pashto bibles being handed out, Dari dominating the scene, and no opportunities for youngsters, common sense tells us they woudn't want to sit back and relax, they will resist against such abnormal changes.

-AK

AK,

Thanks for the warm welcome. Its great to talk to important things with smart people. While I won't serve as an American apologist I do disagree with some of the things you wrote.

1. Agreed. Pakistan's involvement, especially in Eastern Paktika is despicable. But I am a soldier, not a diplomat. Do you really think it is in the worlds interest for guys like me to get involved?

2. Call them what you will. Taliban is a word. I have no reason to lie when I say all the people I have killed have been carrying AKs, PKMs, RPGs, ICOMs and were in the mountains. Few were Afghans. Mostly Pakistani, some Chechens a handful of Arabs. You decry the use of US rhetoric on one hand but envoke the death of a 5 year old Afghan girl on the other.

3. Both sophistaced and graceful analogies. And I do agree that Karzai is awful. Let's focus time and calories on finding his replacement rather than blaming NATO for the universally acknowledged disaster that this adventure has been.

4. Agreed

5. All my operations are named in Pashto, not that that matters. Handing out Pashto bibles is inexcusable, I have never seen it, but I believe it happened. I rarely hear Dari unless it is spoken by the terps from Kabul, in fact all government documents in Orgun are printed in Pashto by law. More money needs to be spent building football fields and cricket pitches, something I have been advocating for almost a year.

Respectfully,

Matt

[khushal]

Sounds like communism.

You have no idea what communism is or what capitalism is. You have to read about the founders of these schools of thought.
Adam Smith and Carl Marx who differed on which priciples best distributes resources fairly. Adam Smith is thought to be referring to God when he talks about the invisible hand guiding price, demand, and supply and he preached the invisible hand(God) best distributes resources when there is no interference in the market.
Carl Marx on the other hand thought that human beings alone can best distribute resources fairly. In this scenario Heavy regulation was necessary to ensure fair distribution.
When communists took over Kabul, they tried to reform society according to these principles by force. This reforming of society had a very violent response from the Pashtun way of life. When you go into a village in rural Afghanistan, most everyone is a land owner and if you try to take away their land, you will meet stiff resistance because a pashtun in a village without land is not a Pashtun. There are three thing a pashtun will die for Zmacka(Land), Namoos(Woman), and Thura(sword) which has been replaced by the gun.
Communist ideology was against this whole premise.

Today the Americans are there and they are reforming the society in a way where they are creating an elite, corrupt, and unjust government that basically is ignoring the basic needs of the rural poor. Why should the ANA soldier risk his life for Karzai's gang who is corrupt and is out of touch with that ANA soldier. The ANA soldier is not stupid, he knows he is not fighting for his freedom but fighting to give Karzai's gang the ability to steal from their people. When NATO leaves, I am sure that the Karzai government will fall without a single shot fired. It will turn back to the NA vs Taliban.

[MDresden]

No...your idea of spreading the wealth equally among the people...(notice it's not your own wealth being effected.)

[ComradePashtun]

Dresden and Matt,

How many Taliban do you think are active in Paktika and how resourced are they?

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

You have no idea what communism is or what capitalism is. You have to read about the founders of these schools of thought.
Adam Smith and Carl Marx who differed on which priciples best distributes resources fairly. Adam Smith is thought to be referring to God when he talks about the invisible hand guiding price, demand, and supply and he preached the invisible hand(God) best distributes resources when there is no interference in the market.
Carl Marx on the other hand thought that human beings alone can best distribute resources fairly. In this scenario Heavy regulation was necessary to ensure fair distribution.
When communists took over Kabul, they tried to reform society according to these principles by force. This reforming of society had a very violent response from the Pashtun way of life. When you go into a village in rural Afghanistan, most everyone is a land owner and if you try to take away their land, you will meet stiff resistance because a pashtun in a village without land is not a Pashtun. There are three thing a pashtun will die for Zmacka(Land), Namoos(Woman), and Thura(sword) which has been replaced by the gun.
Communist ideology was against this whole premise.

Today the Americans are there and they are reforming the society in a way where they are creating an elite, corrupt, and unjust government that basically is ignoring the basic needs of the rural poor. Why should the ANA soldier risk his life for Karzai's gang who is corrupt and is out of touch with that ANA soldier. The ANA soldier is not stupid, he knows he is not fighting for his freedom but fighting to give Karzai's gang the ability to steal from their people. When NATO leaves, I am sure that the Karzai government will fall without a single shot fired. It will turn back to the NA vs Taliban.

That is why the Pashtun region is one of the most backward regions in the world,and due to this backwardness and vulnerability and all these stories of how Invicible Pashtuns are, we are misled and exploited by much realistic powerful people i.e Punjabi elite and Arab states.

Pashtuns can be reformed, and we was reformed until Warlords being sheltered by Pakistan were given space and freedom to regroup. Those developments were not a threat towards the way of the Pashtun people, actually infact, most of those who were communists were actually Pashtuns themselves especially the young lot at the time.

Khushal, this is where I stress alot, if it wasnt for Pakistan, those wars would have ever happened. Pakistan played a direct role in protecting Militia's and Warlords who opposed reformation and modernisation, and gave them the protection and training to become their future stooges.

Was the Civil war a result of the way of the Pashtun or the lifestyle of a Pashtun, the looting of hospitals? banks? killings of singers and teachers, expelling the educational board and scaring of the intellectual community? is this a result of the Pashtun way of life being threatened by reformation?

NO my friend, it is not, We was fooled into becoming stooges of others, its as simple as that, my hate for Pakistan is very much deep rooted, I know very well and I am not naive, If Pakistan never got itself involved with the likes of the Peshawer Seven and co, or Ahmad Shah Masood and Hekmatyar, Afghanistan's masses would have forcibly reformed themselves, just as we witnessed in Russia,when the working class booted the monarchy out hence a developed,equal unified Russia instead of one ruled by greedy kings and superstitious clerics.

In the case of Pashtuns, we are open to reformation, but I am afraid to say, we are the puppets of worser powers, i.e Arabian Spiritual Sqaud and the Punjabi Henchmen.

[MDresden]

The Taliban are nothing more then targets. I'm sure we don't gather much intelligence before ending the target...so I have no idea how resourced they are. However, I do know that everytime we find a weapons cache we blow it up and move on.

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

Its not about blowing up, in policing, you never destroy the evidence, you first locate their logistical support lines and then you dismantle them.

[khushal]

I swear I felt like asking you which obscure text book BS that was that you tried to apply in Afghanistan, but then I changed my mind to ask you that what you are saying is obscure. So can you exactly tell me who exactly is fighting for resouces in Afghanistan. What resources did Taliban deliver?

First you have to realize its not just the Taliban who is fighting. There are insurgents who turn their guns on each other all the time. There are NA groups who turn their guns on each other also. The people are fighting and resources is not just raw resources. Freedom is a resource. The ability to practice your religion is a resource. The ability to live without being caught in a crossfire is a resource. The ability to live without the fear of being bombed by warplanes and being mistaken for insurgents is a resource.

Im no fan of the Taliban, just because I believe that America is better served spending its resources to build New Orlean which is an attainable goal than spend its resources on something that is not attainable like the Karzai government who does nothing for its people does not make me a Talib. But I do like to side with the facts. The Taliban did provide security at the cost of freedoms. As George Bush said "Freedom aint free." That also goes for security. Security is not free either. The Taliban did free the country from opium production. There was very little corruption with the Taliban. etc. etc.
What has the Karzai government accomplished besides stealing from its people. Isnt the incompetence of the Karzai government the reason why this mess exists.

[Admin Khan]

AK,

Thanks for the warm welcome. Its great to talk to important things with smart people. While I won't serve as an American apologist I do disagree with some of the things you wrote.

The pleasure is all mine.

1. Agreed. Pakistan's involvement, especially in Eastern Paktika is despicable. But I am a soldier, not a diplomat. Do you really think it is in the worlds interest for guys like me to get involved?

As a soldier, you are able to exert influence. The least you could possibly do is sit down with competent leaders, and sort of identify the root cause behind this "insurgency", as you might call it. You must view this problem in a much more broader sense, the people whom have picked up weapons are simply attacking you because they have lost their children's, and witnessed the death of innocent civilians that were returning from school, etc. None of which, attacked our USA. Pashtuns have a strict code of revenge. In fact, just to offer you a better image, 'grilling' someones wife could equate to getting punched in the face in that side of the town. Imagine what killing one equates too. You, as an American, must realize that there was not a single Afghan involved in 9/11. Heck, just today the NYTIMES published an interesting article which I posted earlier elaborating on this.

2. Call them what you will. Taliban is a word. I have no reason to lie when I say all the people I have killed have been carrying AKs, PKMs, RPGs, ICOMs and were in the mountains.

But why have they picked up weapons? That's my question. Do you not think it's because of killing innocent people, and later apologizing for it? You can't just wipe off a village, and later get upset as to why the elders of the village are walking around with weapons. When you demonize the Pashtun ethnic group, and accidentally kill a few innocent people, uproar that you might have witnessed is bound to happen. All those anti-NATO protests you are witnessing is not because they "love" the Taliban. It's because some trusted you, and the US in response brought corrupt war-lords, along with the inception of uncalled air strikes in the broader image. I can personally tell you that there was a time when Afghans loved America with a passion. Which resulted in hundreds of thousands of educated Afghans settling in New York and California. Some which are now 2nd generation Americans.

3. Both sophistaced and graceful analogies. And I do agree that Karzai is awful. Let's focus time and calories on finding his replacement rather than blaming NATO for the universally acknowledged disaster that this adventure has been.

Well, someone has to be blamed, right? I agree that working on eradicating the problem is the primary objective, but recognizing that a problem exists should be the first thing we should be doing. I am glad you agree that the USA had brought in corrupt powerful warlords into power, that have done nothing but flex their muscles in bribing the locals.

5. All my operations are named in Pashto, not that that matters. Handing out Pashto bibles is inexcusable, I have never seen it, but I believe it happened.

Yes, it did happen and that served as a great tool to rally up anti-American support. In fact, one American went as far as spewing a lot of nonsense.

" In order to make sure that all the citizens of Afghanistan have the opportunity to come to know Jesus, and hopefully convert to the “right” religion, a group called the Revival Fire Ministry had Bibles printed up in Pashto and Dari, the chief languages of Afghanistan. Al-Jazeera has captured footage of military chaplains in Bagram that were in possession of these Bibles, and also shot footage of one of the chaplains telling the soldiers to “be witnesses for [Jesus]. The special forces guys – they hunt men basically. We do the same things as Christians; we hunt people for Jesus. We do, we hunt them down. Get the hound of heaven after them, so that we get them into the kingdom. That’s what we do, that’s our business”. The missionary on the front porch may be wearing a smile, but he’s also wearing a gun…a very big gun, and he drove up in a tank. Honey, I think we’d better let him in, and maybe even invite him to dinner"
Printer-Friendly: One Military Under God

I rarely hear Dari unless it is spoken by the terps from Kabul, in fact all government documents in Orgun are printed in Pashto by law. More money needs to be spent building football fields and cricket pitches, something I have been advocating for almost a year.

Respectfully,

Matt

There is not a single functioning University in the South.

[MDresden]

Its not about blowing up, in policing, you never destroy the evidence, you first locate their logistical support lines and then you dismantle them.

Incorrect, each target is nothing more then another target listed on a board or form. Anything found that is Taliban is blown up on the spot and nothing is taken back unless it has intelligence specifially on it...such as an electronic device or notebook. Everything else is gone. You can read this in the news all the time. Another weapons cache blown up here, there and everywhere.

[khushal]

No...your idea of spreading the wealth equally among the people...(notice it's not your own wealth being effected.)

When did I say equally, I said fairly. there is a difference. Do I need to teach english too.

[khushal]

i couldn't work it out either. what you sayin boy?

your funny? youve been watching southern american movies now.

[Pashtun_Ultranationalist]

Incorrect, each target is nothing more then another target listed on a board or form. Anything found that is Taliban is blown up on the spot and nothing is taken back unless it has intelligence specifially on it...such as an electronic device or notebook. Everything else is gone. You can read this in the news all the time. Another weapons cache blown up here, there and everywhere.

I dont think you got my point. A British Officer once said, the best army is the one who is logistically strong, in the case of the Taliban, it should be noted, that cutting their Logistics or discovering from where it starts, should be more important. Am I incorrect?