Taliban

[ComradePashtun]

When you disagree with me, elaborate please, tell me your thoughts and back it up.

Khushal, what I said was a question more or less, I am asking you to back it up.

[Whisley 2-6]

Why are all the soldiers on here named Matt?

Anyways, In 1984 the Soviet generals were telling their superiors that the afghan war was unwinnable but their superiors kept telling them give it some time, 5 years later, a million afghans dead, the soviet unions resources wasted for no attainable goal which actually lead to their demise still did the inevitable, which was withdraw.
While I agree with you that recruiting for the Taliban would decrease when NATO leaves just like it happened during the Soviet withdrawal when many fighters laid down their arms and returned to their lives because the goal of kicking out the foreigners was achieved but it will not ensure the current government will survive.

I believe you are caught up in a civil which has nothing to do with you that started back in the 70's and will continue when NATO leaves. This civil war is between the urban elites and the rural poor, every time the rural poor is on the verge of winning, a superpower interferes to prevent them. It is better for the Afghans to let them solve their differences and it is better for the Americans to stop wasting valuable resources on an unattainable goal.

The sooner NATO leaves the quicker and less bloody it will be for Afghans to solve their differences among each other. The longer NATO stays there the more unnecessary blood will be spilled and resources wasted.
While the Taliban do horrific things such as suicide bombing and whipping people for having English speaking skills, they do it because NATO exists on its territory, take away NATO and those things will disappear.

I'm not sure why there are a lot of Matts. I can tell you I have met my fair share of Wahids here. I'm also not sure we are really disagreeing with each other. My only point of departure concerns immediate withdrawl. Is GIRoA corrupt? Yes. Are the ANA/ANP/ABP/ALP/AUP clueless? Yes. Are local sub-governers only interested in nepotism? Yes. All of these things have been widely reported on ad nauseum by Eastern and Western press alike. But the really boring and uninteresting story is how they are evolving, even if it is at a glacial pace. I'm just afraid this collasal undertaking, not from Afghanistan/America, but from Afghans/Americans who have paid the price, will be reversed if we don't ensure a modicum of stability. All wars end. I know the people of Afghanistan are tired from a war that has lasted before I was born. I do feel like a hypocrate because if it were up to me I would pull the plug on US invovlement. Its especially confusing for me becasue I have made a ton of friends here who would be in real danger if combat troops were to leave now. I suppose I am conflicted but I'm not afraid to admit it.

[MDresden]

My personal belief is for us to go and not come back. I mean the USA has enough problems of its own and these people as a whole don't even want us here.

[khushal]

Khushal, what I said was a question more or less, I am asking you to back it up.

Most civil wars are started because of this division of urban elites consolidating power and resources for themselves and leaving the rural poor out it. What do you think the Arab Spring is about. The foundation of all disputes arise over resources. Unless you have a system that fairly distributes resources or create an illusion that resources are distributed fairly, disputes can not be avoided.

Here read this:
CONFLICT

[MDresden]

Sounds like communism.

[Whisley 2-6]

Im not saying afghans want Taliban or Afghans want Karzai and gang, what I am saying is that let the Afghans decide if they want the Taliban or if the want the Karzai gang or completely someone else. Their decision can not be realized unless you take away the variable of foreign forces shooting at them.

Do you really believe that Americans putting Jamiat and Masood's party in power will not have a violent response from Taliban and Hezbi people. Do you think they will stay silent on the sidelines.

My only issue with representing the Taliban as an equivilant form of alternate government is that there is little peaceful recourse once that genie is out of the bottle. At least Karzai and his gang of creatons is capable discourse, albeit limited. His day too will pass and hopefully will be a means to an end of might makes right.

Matt

[ComradePashtun]

Most civil wars are started because of this division of urban elites consolidating power and resources for themselves and leaving the rural poor out it. What do you think the Arab Spring is about. The foundation of all disputes arise over resources. Unless you have a system that fairly distributes resources or create an illusion that resources are distributed fairly, disputes can not be avoided.

Here read this:
CONFLICT

I swear I felt like asking you which obscure text book BS that was that you tried to apply in Afghanistan, but then I changed my mind to ask you that what you are saying is obscure. So can you exactly tell me who exactly is fighting for resouces in Afghanistan. What resources did Taliban deliver?

[ComradePashtun]

Village mullah could never provide canalization, health, paved roads, or fine seeds to the rural peasant population.

[faye]

not necessarily dresden. resources get distributed to look after the roads, policing, schooling, government housing, healthcare, etc, etc, to improve society if the governing body is ok.
oppression is another reason for rebellion ... need for freedom of speech and action.

[Admin Khan]

I would gladly leave Afghanistan. I don't think another American life or penny is worth being spent here. I don't make or agree with those decisions, just as you don't make or agree with the decisions made on your behalf by GIRoA. As for disguising defeat, its hopeless to affiliate myself with the sucesses or failures of my government. I can tell you that we have had amazing sucess where we operate locally. This isn't Kabul, the places where we work the Taliban doesn't care if you are opposed to NATO. They would beat you for your ability to speak english and kill you if they found your computer. I agree that if NATO left Afghanistan the Taliban would have a hard time raising money and recruiting. But it wouldn't be impossible. I know the govenrment here is imperfect, but aren't you willing to give it some time? Just curious.

Respectfully,

Matt

Greetings Matt, Good to have you here.

I have a few questions for you. If it's a well known established fact[backed by the London School of Economics]that Pakistan's spy agency advertently funds the Taliban, then why kill and attack innocent Afghans in Afghanistan? Wouldn't it logically make sense, that in order to eradicate a problem, you must stop it's source of funding and support[hint:Pakistan]?

Also, do you really think you are fighting against the Taliban now? Or are you fighting against regular Afghans whom are extremely upset at NATO for killing their 5 year old daughter, or perhaps blowing up their house for no reason? NATO and US airstrikes serves as a great propaganda tool for foreign nations; it's pretty easy for neighboring countries to rally up anti-American sentiments cause all they have to do is provide a few images of Americans taking pride in the death of innocent Afghans. And if you wish to argue that Americans are trying to bring stability into Afghanistan, then I must say that is similar to taking the anti-derivative of velocity, in search of acceleration[it won't work]. You can't install corrupt war-lords as governors, and expect a government to succeed. This is similar to installing a MS13 Gang-leader as the mayor of New York. Do you not think a chaos will instantaneously erupt, if such is the case in the US? The aforementioned is exactly what we witnessed in Afghanistan. All the corrupt officials that left Afghanistan for war crimes, returned under the support and umbrella of the USA. I must confess, that is sad and unfortunate.

Also, you can't marginalize the Pashtun ethnic group and expect to have a proper Afghan government. We Pashtuns never hated Americans, or white people. In fact, Pashtuns are very kind to all their guests. But the minute Pashtuns witness someone that has malicious intentions, they tend to react rather harshly. History backs this up, has the world already forgotten what Pashtuns did to Alex the Great, Great Britain? etc. If you really want to see Afghanistan succeed, the last thing you should be doing is naming operations with Farsi words in the South. Afghans aren't xenophobic to foreigners. Heck, they have greeted every nation in the world due to it's strategic location. However, when Pashtuns see Pashto bibles being handed out, Dari dominating the scene, and no opportunities for youngsters, common sense tells us they woudn't want to sit back and relax, they will resist against such abnormal changes.

Respectfully,

-AK

[MDresden]

Admin Khan, refer to my previous post about the strength of your enemy shows how "tough" you are. I think you'll begin to understand as I am.

[Admin Khan]

Admin Khan, refer to my previous post about the strength of your enemy shows how "tough" you are. I think you'll begin to understand as I am.

May you please forward me to this post?

[MDresden]

http://www.pashtunforums.com/438308-post8.html

Half way down.

[faye]

who says those at the helm of these invasions care whether afghansiatn or any of the muslim countries succeed, admin khan?

[Admin Khan]

Greetings Matt, Good to have you here.

I have a few questions for you. If it's a well known established fact[backed by the London School of Economics]that Pakistan's spy agency advertently funds the Taliban, then why kill and attack innocent Afghans in Afghanistan? Wouldn't it logically make sense, that in order to eradicate a problem, you must stop it's source of funding and support[hint:Pakistan]?

Also, do you really think you are fighting against the Taliban now? Or are you fighting against regular Afghans whom are extremely upset at NATO for killing their 5 year old daughter, or perhaps blowing up their house for no reason? NATO and US airstrikes serves as a great propaganda tool for foreign nations; it's pretty easy for neighboring countries to rally up anti-American sentiments cause all they have to do is provide a few images of Americans taking pride in the death of innocent Afghans. And if you wish to argue that Americans are trying to bring stability into Afghanistan, then I must say that is similar to taking the anti-derivative of velocity, in search of acceleration[it won't work]. You can't install corrupt war-lords as governors, and expect a government to succeed. This is similar to installing a MS13 Gang-leader as the mayor of New York. Do you not think a chaos will instantaneously erupt, if such is the case in the US? The aforementioned is exactly what we witnessed in Afghanistan. All the corrupt officials that left Afghanistan for war crimes, returned under the support and umbrella of the USA. I must confess, that is sad and unfortunate.

Also, you can't marginalize the Pashtun ethnic group and expect to have a proper Afghan government. We Pashtuns never hated Americans, or white people. In fact, Pashtuns are very kind to all their guests. But the minute Pashtuns witness someone that has malicious intentions, they tend to react rather harshly. History backs this up, has the world already forgotten what Pashtuns did to Alex the Great, Great Britain? etc. If you really want to see Afghanistan succeed, the last thing you should be doing is naming operations with Farsi words in the South. Afghans aren't xenophobic to foreigners. Heck, they have greeted every nation in the world due to it's strategic location. However, when Pashtuns see Pashto bibles being handed out, Dari dominating the scene, and no opportunities for youngsters, common sense tells us they woudn't want to sit back and relax, they will resist against such abnormal changes.

Respectfully,

-AK

MDresden,
That doesn't answer the questions I asked above.