Farhat Taj versus ISI mouthpieces and Akhwani fanatics

[Toramana]

Toramana,

I gave my sources for that assertion and used the words "Apparently"...and "according to", and mentioned that they were Pakistani "nationalist" sources, nor did I omit their use of the word "treachery" so that people could see they were clearly Pakistani nationalist sites. The same sort of sites which are of course very anti-Bangladeshi.

You mention the Badr and other idiots, however what you do not realize, in your supposed infinite wisdom, is the Mukhti Bahini themselves were Muslims and read Islamic prayers and invocations even whilst fighting and even today many retired Mukhtis are bearded gentlemen, some whom have performed Hajj.

It is the Pakistani-ISI-Zaid Hamid type propaganda of the type that people such as Talal, Manzareh, Jana, Luffy, Son of Mountains, the thugs of forum.pakistanidefence wholeheartedly breathe in that makes them think the Pakistan army were glorious Mujahideen and the Mukhti Bahini were evil Hindus.

The Pakistan army were led by secular nationalist leaders and generals who were trained by the British Raj, served the British Raj and were part of the same army, soldiers of whom were fighting the Faqir of Ipi (rahmatullahi alaih).

The Mukhti Bahini included brave former East Bengal Regiment officers who had defended Lahore in 1965 but were betrayed by the Punjabis in 1971 and they were proud Muslims.

One of the man liberation commanders Zia ur Rahman became president later on and a strong exponent of Islamic co-operation in the Muslim bloc.

The greatest Bengali and the true father of Bangladesh is actually an Islamic scholar, one whom you have probably never heard of, Maulana Abdul Hamid Khan Bashani. He was part of the Bangladeshi government in exile who fought against the Punjabis and this Islamic scholar was speaking of East Bengal leaving Pakistan way before Mujib ever did.

Your knowledge of East Pakistan/Bangladesh is superficial and shallow. Things are not like how the "Jeevay, jeevay Pakistan" types such as Farzana Shah ("Jana") potray, but nor are they the way the Islam-bashing secularists potray.

Islamic scholars and spirit played a part in our liberation and our resilience. The Mukhti Bahini included pious, religious people.



True father of modern day Bangladesh, the legendary Islamic scholar, Maulana Abdul Hamid Khan Bashani (rahmatullahi alaih).

Mr Lionheart of Bengal, I know about Bashani sufficiently. I know that he was a Maoist (pro-China) and at one time when he attended the communist conference at Berlin (1955-56), the Punjabi ruling clique that ruled Pakistan alerted the Americans of the increasing communist influence in Bengal whence Americans approved of military operation by Pakistan army against Bangali nationalists...The aim of the Punjabi ruling elite was to suppress Bangali struggle for their rights by raising the spectre of communism in Bangla Desh (then East Pakistan).

Moreover, remember, Awami League was primarily a nationalist and secular movement (also having minorities in its fore-front).

In my opinion, Bashani cannot be called a communist in strict technical terms. He was a moderate Bangali. But the bipolar politics of the Cold War had pushed him like many others from the oppressed nations to the side of the other pole in reaction to Punjab's association with the US(CENTO, SEATO, etc.).

Btw. I like Bangla Deshi people for their moderate views.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Bashani and others are clear examples of those - and I don't mean you but in general - who say that religion is used as a means to maintain control or in the Pakistani context to promote the interests of the Islamabad regime i.e. ISI-Army-feudal elite.

He was a Deobandi trained scholar.

It was this shrewd Maulana who said the "Muslim" should be dropped from the "Awami Muslim League" (unless I'm wrong and it was Suhrawardy or both of them together, but if I remember correctly it was Bashani, but the point is the same he saw through the Punjabi misuse of religion) because Islamabad was deliberately misusing the Islamic card for its own purposes to subjugate East Bengal.

After Bangladeshi independence he then stood up to India which was trying to impose its dominance and even started a Khudai Khidmatgar in Bangladesh, he was at one time the most important politician and bought the regime of Ayub Khan down.

To potray Islam as the property of Punjab or the ISI is wrong, another example is KHAN I AZAM, Shaheed Baba Abdus Samad Khan Achakzai, a Pakhtoon nationalist who is said to have written, or at least translated, books of Tafseer (Quranic exegesis).

Khan Shaheed translated many books from other languages to Pashto including Tarjam-i-Quran of Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad, ‘Gulistan-i-Saadi of Sheikh Saadi, and ‘Future of Freedom’ of Dotson Carto. and‘Seerat-ul-Nabi of Shubli Numani into Pashto.

http://olas-ghag.com/shaheesamadkhan.htm



KHAN I AZAM, Abdus Samad Khan Achakzai (Allah yarhamahu)

In fact I am going to sound a little bit racist but there are even Pakhtoons who think that it is be-nang and be-ghairat to be under Punjabis who in their eyes are a race converted to Islam by their Pakhtun ancestors and are still semi-Hindu in culture anyway, and Pashtunwali just being virtually synonymous with Islam anyway in terms of values. I am not sure if you have met such superiority-complexed Pashtuns around who look down on Punjabis as weak Muslims but there are many, I am sure someone like Gadoonwal can tell you of some. As for Pashtuns west of the "Durrand" line, well we all know what they think of Punjabis.

[ScimitarXEdge]

I neither have sympathy with US nor Al-Queda and Taleban. First and foremost I am a Pashtun nationalist and resent the fact that in this game and crossfire between the US, Punjab's military, and transnational pan-Islamism, Pashtuns are the ultimate victims. Anything that can lessen their suffering or put an end to it or propagate their voice is welcome.


Moreover, Bangal_Tiger, the articles you have posted are just rubbish....

if you are not sympathetic to America; then why do you insist on portraying the global political climate according to the Doctrine of Imperialist Geopolitical Designs?

[Toramana]

I have no problem with you saying the articles are rubbish, in fact I was partially looking for someone to refute the claims made in those articles.

The quality of language is poor, and the sources - being Pakistani nationalists, whom as we all know are liars - are of course dubious.

This is why to repeat I said:

"Apparently"

and

"According to.."

nor did I hide the sources of this claim (not my claim, but their claim) and gave them so people could judge for themselves. I think your opinion that they are rubbish is a valid one.

However, I am pro-Pashtun and stand in solidarity with Pashtuns against the same forces of evil that killed my people, and it was Pashtun nationalists in 1971 who went out to the streets and risked imprisonment to protest against the massacre of Bengalis. So from that Pashtun-centric angle I share my reservations about Farhat Taj as Mr Zahid Bunerai, the owner of Khyberwatch and proud Pashtun patriot expressed in my quote above.

Both are peoples have been the victims of Punjabis misusing the Islam card to promote their agenda at our expense.

Islam has nothing to do with Pakistan or with Punjabi nationalism, or Ranjeet Singh, or Heera Mandi.



This is Asma Bibi, a proud Muslim and Pakhtuna (rahmatullahi alaiha) who passed away in the floods. Punjabis try to potray anyone opposed to Pakistan as an enemy of Islam, whilst extremists such as Kafir Maseed on the other hand try to potray anyone Islamic as an ISI-supporter.

Islam is part of Pashtunwali and Pashtuniyat, and so are Islamic heroes such as Faqir of Ipi and Baba Ahmed Shah Abdali (rahmatullahi alaihim).

Please do not ever associate Islam with the British-created state of Pakistan, Au'dhubillah.

Well, I understand that point Bengal_Tiger. But I would never trust Islamists especially those associated with Jumath-i-Islami (a branch of International Ekhwani movement) who have most of the time sided with the rulers against the oppressed nations. To them, Urdu, the UP culture, and Pakistan are what Islam is.

Punjabis have always played this trickery. During the Cold War, they would scare the US with the (concocted) communist links of Pashtun, Baluch, Bangali, etc. nationalist movements, which would give them weapons and money to suppress such movements. Now a days, they are playing a rather more sophisticated game; domestically they malign nationalist forces through propaganda against them through their allies i.e. the Ekhwanis and other forces of the right (e.g. Imran Khan, Muslim League, etc.). Internationally, they propagate the presumed Islamist motivation of Pashtun nationalism (scare US-West of an Islamist Pashtunistan which gives it money and weapon to suppress Pashtuns). Internally, they are providing sanctuaries to militants and Taleban. This way, they are trying to achieve many objectives; deeper control over Pashtun areas (military contonments in Swat, FATA, etc.); replacement of Pashtun identity with Pakistan-centered Muslim identity (with Urdu and Punjabi-Mahajar culture as the main component); and destroying the social fabric of Pashtun society for easy political/ideological manipulation.

The Ekhwanis of Pakistan primarily represent the interests of and aligned with the military which is Punjab dominated and basis its nationalism on Indian Muslim history (Mughal period) and Urdu. All these Ekhwanis are just pawns (including Gulbuddin, Mullah Omar, Haqqanis, Jumath-i-Islami, etc....) in the great game to be oversized/inflated when needed and cut to the right size when the purpose is over with them.

[ScimitarXEdge]

There are no Ikhwanis in Pakistan, Jamat-i-Islami is at best an Ikhwani Wannabe, they have no official membership or charter designated by the Ikhwan al Muslimeen

unless you can prove that they had an official charter from the Ikhwan, and that they had more than a "supportive/appreciative" relationship with the Ikhwan.

[ScimitarXEdge]

geee I wonder where America got the idea that there were communist links in Afghanistan and Pakhtunkhwah ...geee could it be that Najibullah, Babrak Karmal , Hafizullah Amin were all stooges of the Soviets and Asfandyar and Achakzai were close associates with them?


and why does Toramana care what America thinks, sounds like sympathizing with America?

[Toramana]

geee I wonder where America got the idea that there were communist links in Afghanistan and Pakhtunkhwah ...geee could it be that Najibullah, Babrak Karmal , Hafizullah Amin were all stooges of the Soviets and Asfandyar and Achakzai were close associates with them?


and why does Toramana care what America thinks, sounds like sympathizing with America?

Not to the extent to which the Islamists were CIA proxies during the Cold War talking about ANP and PMAP at least. Instead of acting like a mindless canon fodder, one should weigh the degree of damage a player in the game can cause (game theory) and maneuver one's way....

That is why Brezenski said "what is more important in history the fall of Russia and liberation of East Europe or few Muslim zealots"

The conclusion is, in the Afghan War, the victors were US, Punjabis, Saudis, etc. ...the losers were Afghans...In this current war it seems, the victors will be Punjabis, Northern Alliance, and may be also US with basis in NAFG...and the losers will be Pashtuns...

Rest, Mullahs, Talebs, Ekhwanis, etc. are nothing more than pawns/proxies played by different players to advance their agenda and wars....(are like minefields implanted in a society to go off any time and destablise and destroy it from within).

[Bengal_Tiger]

Tormana, you are right about Jamat i Islami, completely right.

As a Bengali I know this, and have experienced this. Our own razakars, Jamati supporters in Bangladesh actually want Bangladesh to be part of Pakistan again and not even as an equal partner but subordinate. They are deluded in that they fail to realize that no matter how much they "love" Pakistan, the racist Hindustanis and Punjabis of Jamat will still hold them in contempt.

These Bangladeshi Jamatis in fact look down on Bengali culture and are wannabe-Pakis.

Anyway these idiots were defeated and cannot realize their dreams...plus their beloved Pakistan is collapsing.

However Islam, e.g Islam as we saw in the case of the Faqir of Ipi, Badshah Khan, Abdus Samad Khan Achakzai, Maulana Bashani and members of the ANP is nothing like what these Jamatis want to make it out to be.

Punjabis get nervous when people do not fall for the "Islam = loyalty to Pak/Punjabistan" trick and see Islam as something totally separate.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Not to the extent to which the Islamists were CIA proxies during the Cold War talking about ANP and PMAP at least. Instead of acting like a mindless canon fodder, one should weigh the degree of damage a player in the game can cause (game theory) and maneuver one's way....

That is why Brezenski said "what is more important the fall of Russia and liberation of East Europe or few Muslim zealots"

You're right it was even worse; Najibullah for example would actually take direct orders from The Kremlin; that he was under obligation to fulfill; This demonstrated that Najib, Karmal and Amin were all directly under Russian/Soviet authority and were not autonomous at all.

This was proven by Dr. Muhammad Hassan Kakar who was a Professor at Kabul University and was directly involved in what happened during the 70's and 80's

in his book; Afghanistan: The Soviet Invasion and the Afghan Response


http://books.google.com/books?id=QyT...page&q&f=false



Have a read for yourself and see how badly the ANP, Najib and Karmal were soviet Nawkars. If you're going to talk Game Theory; the goal was not for personal benefit of Pashtuns; that was just a ploy the Soviets realized and would hijack and imposter; but for creating a buffer for Mother Russia thereby maximizing Soviet benefits and and minimizing damage.

as for what you're saying, perhaps true when it comes to Taliban since they have very naive goals; but definitely not Ikhwanis; mainly because the Secular Parties that existed, were byproducts of the Colonial Educational System and wanted to Emulate them and thereby mimic and maintain the Imperial Hegemony which america inherited from the Europeans. Furthermore the Secularist and Servants of the Soviets were trying to completely alter the moral standards and principles of the Natives; which would be subjugation, the Ikhwanis merely wanted to reform it. The evidence shows it's the Secularists who were really fifth columns working for Imperial interests while Islamists were the reactionaries who wanted to push back their trojan horse of Imperial conquest

[Toramana]

See the excerpt below.

"Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

B: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war? "

Below is the complete inteview of Brezenski (the national security advisor of Jimmy Carter )

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BRZ110A.html

[ScimitarXEdge]

ok that's good ....the Taliban and Islamism are two distinct ideologies.

deal with Taliban supporters; Pan Islamism and Talibanism are not the same approach. Either way that doesn't prove that Secularists were not Soviet Stooges

go ahead ...read Dr. Kakar's book I DARE you Toramana, I dare you. heck I bet you already know the stuff inside that's why you're avoiding, it would expose you as an Imperial Stooge and not the Pashtun Nationalist that you pretend to be.

[Toramana]

Tormana, you are right about Jamat i Islami, completely right.

As a Bengali I know this, and have experienced this. Our own razakars, Jamati supporters in Bangladesh actually want Bangladesh to be part of Pakistan again and not even as an equal partner but subordinate. They are deluded in that they fail to realize that no matter how much they "love" Pakistan, the racist Hindustanis and Punjabis of Jamat will still hold them in contempt.

These Bangladeshi Jamatis in fact look down on Bengali culture and are wannabe-Pakis.

Anyway these idiots were defeated and cannot realize their dreams...plus their beloved Pakistan is collapsing.

However Islam, e.g Islam as we saw in the case of the Faqir of Ipi, Badshah Khan, Abdus Samad Khan Achakzai, Maulana Bashani and members of the ANP is nothing like what these Jamatis want to make it out to be.

Punjabis get nervous when people do not fall for the "Islam = loyalty to Pak/Punjabistan" trick and see Islam as something totally separate.

I have no issue with the type of Muslim culture/Islam practiced in Bangla Desh and would love to have that for my people (education and opportunities for women and progressive outlook).

And I hope that Bangla Deshis don't fall for the Ekhwani trap and are able to maintain their sovereignty and national dignity...It is going well compared to other Muslim countries and should continue that track instead of being deceived by one Pan-Islam or other Pan-Islam/Muslim brotherhood slogan like it did during 19th-20th Century of which it bore the consequences in 1971 in the form of 1.5-3 millions martyres (not to mention the oppression and denail of rights).

[ScimitarXEdge]

but Toramana ....as you yourself admit, Pakistan weren't sincere; thereby Bangladeshis didn't suffer because of Pan Islam but rather British Imperialism; the same you wish for Pakhtunkhwah.

afterall wasnt it the ANP and Najib who helped the Russians martyer 1.5 Million Afghans? To be honest, the Bangladeshis didn't suffer because of Pan-Islam, Pan Islam would liberate Bangladesh and all Muslim societies; they suffered because of Nationalism, British Manufactured Pakistani Nationalism, which is same as all other Nationalisms, since they're all products of British Imperial demarcations of asia.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Scimitar, we suffered for deeper reasons than what you think. It was not merely nationalism, there were civilizational and racial issues behind our discrimination. Anyway this thread is about Pashtunkhwa, so we can talk about this another day.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Scimitar, we suffered for deeper reasons than what you think. It was not merely nationalism, there were civilizational and racial issues behind our discrimination. Anyway this thread is about Pashtunkhwa, so we can talk about this another day.

exactly, the very opposite of what Pan Islamic principles are about wouldn't you say?

really the problem with Punjabis stems from the Ancient Hindu Caste Based Culture of believing to be White Aryans, over Bengalis who had Dravidian roots, even though speaking an Indo-European language.