dr najeeb speech on shah nawaz tanai

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Until you show me with a logical rebuttal as to why it's a fallacy; it remains.

by the way do you know what a circular argument is? And no it doesnt mean repeating the same point. LOL

lol.... WOW....you just did not accuse me of that....

You keep using the same 1500000 issue. You don't stand a chance on that. That is your only argument on why he was "evil." Does not work. You are assuming that 1 death does not matter where as 1500000 matters. The killings were for the same reason.

[ScimitarXEdge]

lol.... WOW....you just did not accuse me of that....

You keep using the same 1500000 issue. You don't stand a chance on that. That is your only argument on why he was "evil." Does not work. You are assuming that 1 death does not matter where as 1500000 matters. The killings were for the same reason.

No this is where you dont understand context; Najib was a criminal so when a criminal dies; it's not the same as when others die

and please so what is he was Pashtun; think of all the Pashtuns he killed; oh but they were fighting Russia so it was ok to kill them.

Shows where your deen actually is.

[khyaal]

Its a possible differential diagnosis I admit. I will have to think about that. However, another possibility is that Pakistan sees them as a detriment/benefit that can be kept intact but reigned in every so often with a "slap". What I mean by that is since they are not near the centers of power as Fazlullah was, and since they serve a purpose by making incursions for holy war into Afghanistan against NATO/Indian interests (i.e. Khost bombing) they may be viewed as a sustainable group to keep around. What I mean is that their interests may partially align to the point that Pakistan is willing to sustain their limited capabilities/wrath in order to maintain pressure. In which case they would still be an independent entity.

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Look, Perhaps you are n't aware of the geography of Pakistan despite being a Paki. Pakistan occupies more afghan land than that of India. Just look at the map, sum total the Paki occupied afghan land which includes Gilgit-Baltistan(part of Badakhshan province), Southern Pashutnkhwa (pashtun land in balochistan), KP, Attock-Mianwali and FATA. It is more than half of Paki land.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Pakis could kill millions of Bengalis, assassinate Bugti, the son of Khair Bukhsh Marri, and thousands of Pashtuns and Baloch but they are unable to tame Lashkar e Tayyaba, Jaish Mohammad, Lashkar e islam. This is just a joke. LOL

Well just as Meem is arguing that Najib did all he could to maintain his power paradigm... Pakistan is going to do whatever it takes to sustain its own foothold and national integrity. That is why these discussions really degenerate. Moral standards and rationalization of ridiculous actions ought to be applied equally and across the board (i.e. Najibs idiocy cannot simply be dismissed while Pakistan stands harangued). Once one seizes upon reality, much more can be accomplished by seeing the world as it is and not as one wants it to be. The bottom line is that Pakistan and other local nations will continue to implement any means necessary to maintain territorial integrity. Instead of lecturing history and debating nonsense with them saying "hey, by the way, about that KP region... wanna give it back?" We would do much better to understand the logistics and build up our own resources under true independence from all comers.

[ScimitarXEdge]

The irony is people like Khyaal are upset that the Taliban and Mujahideen were slaves of Pakistan and sacrificing Afghanistan to serve Pakistan's agenda ...but they were perfectly ok with Afghan leaders allowing Russia the right to impose themselves on Afghanistan, and somehow this is acceptable

so much for patriotism.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

No this is where you dont understand context; Najib was a criminal so when a criminal dies; it's not the same as when others die

and please so what is he was Pashtun; think of all the Pashtuns he killed; oh but they were fighting Russia so it was ok to kill them.

Shows where your deen actually is.

Hahahahahaha....my deen now? Are you going to use every trick to bring me down? Seriously?

First you accuse me of not being a Muslim. Then you tell me that having a Pashtunistan is not Islamic. Then you tell me look at the number of Pashtun he killed, and top it off by appealing to my deen. Confused much?

How on earth were you able to commit such a flawed logical argument?

[ScimitarXEdge]

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Look, Perhaps you are n't aware of the geography of Pakistan despite being a Paki. Pakistan occupies more afghan land than that of India. Just look at the map, sum total the Paki occupied afghan land which includes Gilgit-Baltistan(part of Badakhshan province), Southern Pashutnkhwa (pashtun land in balochistan), KP, Attock-Mianwali and FATA. It is more than half of Paki land.

If you want to use that argument; even All of Punjab, if you want to get technical would be considered "Afghan Land" under premise it was conquered by Abdali.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

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Look, Perhaps you are n't aware of the geography of Pakistan despite being a Paki. Pakistan occupies more afghan land than that of India. Just look at the map, sum total the Paki occupied afghan land which includes Gilgit-Baltistan(part of Badakhshan province), Southern Pashutnkhwa (pashtun land in balochistan), KP, Attock-Mianwali and FATA. It is more than half of Paki land.

Not Paki, my father is from Qandahar. My mother was raised in Kabul, but is Peshawari.

Regardless, as I said, its of little utility to repeat the same thing again and again. And moreover, the power center in those times and nearly all meaningful power was in teh hands of Pashtuns. Would you like to return to that paradigm? Why does this irk you so much? Should the people of KP not have a say in their destiny? Why do you seek to deny them that?

Perhaps you are not aware that the term Afghan does not apply to non Pashtuns ethnically. Its an artifical construct you imposed on yourself.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Hahahahahaha....my deen now? Are you going to use every trick to bring me down? Seriously?

First you accuse me of not being a Muslim. Then you tell me that having a Pashtunistan is not Islamic. Then you tell me look at the number of Pashtun he killed, and top it off by appealing to my deen. Confused much?

How on earth were you able to commit such a flawed logical argument?

You use ethnicity, patriotism, nationalism , poor understanding of logic and relogion, all the time to emotionally black mail people into agreeing with you; it doesnt work but you use them none the less. My point about pashtuns was to highlight how your constant exploitation of ethnic identity is disingenuous since Najib killed Pashtuns as well as many others.

You aren't a Muslim, Deen just means religion ; it reflects that your religion is corrupt. It doesn't mean your religion is Islam. Geez logic isn't strong for you.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

Well just as Meem is arguing that Najib did all he could to maintain his power paradigm... Pakistan is going to do whatever it takes to sustain its own foothold and national integrity.

That is the problem when you mix religion and politics. Religion is used for politic gains. Pakistan is going to continue this until we find another Najib.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

You use ethnicity, patriotism, nationalism , poor understanding of logic and relogion, all the time to emotionally black mail people into agreeing with you; it doesnt work but you use them none the less. My point about pashtuns was to highlight how your constant exploitation of ethnic identity is disingenuous since Najib killed Pashtuns as well as many others.

You aren't a Muslim, Deen just means religion ; it reflects that your religion is corrupt. It doesn't mean your religion is Islam. Geez logic isn't strong for you.

Ran out of gas? If not, re-read everything.

[ScimitarXEdge]

That is the problem when you mix religion and politics. Religion is used for politic gains. Pakistan is going to continue this until we find another Najib.

That doesnt mean that Islam and politics shouldnt mix, since Islam is a system of life, not a religion; it just means corrupt people need to be put into check.

[Toramana]

It doesn't need rocket science to understand the connection between TTP and Afghan insurgency...The fundamental question one should ask one's self is what would be the consequences for Pakistan if an effective operation is carried out in Waziristan (by the Punjabi establishment)...?

The logical consequence would be, Haqqanis and other asset of the Punjabi establishment wouldn't find any base and regrouping/training ground and the insurgency will collapse (with Pakistan losing its cards)....In fact, the TTP and the so-called uncontrollability of tribal people provides the Punjabi establishment a measure of deniability/implausibility ....It is a perfect strategy....

They have been doing this vis-a-vis Kashmir....

[ScimitarXEdge]

Ran out of gas? If not, re-read everything.

No; you just ran out of brain; you were running thin the first place though.

[MeemWawMeemNoon]

That doesnt mean that religion in politics shouldnt mix; it just means corrupt people need to be put into check.

Nope, because Pakistan is using Islam to get Pashtun against each other. Najib knew how to play the game.