Why I dislike pashtuns

[girls-are-bad]

@ tor-khan: Glad that we're finally getting to the point. urdu speaking do not consider themselves to be ABOVE other ethnicities because it's just a question of what family you are born into. You could have been born anywhere, so no sense considering yourself above any other race. I think the only thing that one should be proud of is their achievements.
You will rarely hear an urdu speaking guy bragging about being a muhajir etc. But here in karachi, as I said in my earlier posts we see pushtuns talk a lot about "pushtun pride" etc. A pushtun would naturally trust someone who speaks pushtu over a non-pushtu one, regardless of whether he deserves his trust or not. Things like this within a country aren't appropriate. I do wish that we could do more to provide better living standards to pushtuns in KP and everyone else in the country.

Also, if it's part of the pushtun culture to be proud I respect that but it tends to get annoying for non-pushtuns sometimes, this is all I am trying to say.

[girls-are-bad]

@ gadoonwal: I am not sure where you got this. The number of immigrants from india and bangaldesh is nowhere even close to the number of pushtuns that migrate from KP to karachi. Like majority of urdu speaking people I'm against crime of any sort so it's unfair for you to label a whole group as bhatta khours and killers

[girls-are-bad]

P.S: Keeping in mind the current situation here, I don't think anyone in their right sense would migrate from another country to Pakistan.

[tor_khan]

You will rarely hear an urdu speaking guy bragging about being a muhajir etc. But here in karachi, as I said in my earlier posts we see pushtuns talk a lot about "pushtun pride" etc.

Fundamentally we are back to the point I made earlier about polarisation. Pakistan as a "construct" was crafted with Indian Muslims in mind. Pashtoons were secondary to that - not a core part of Pakistan's philosophy and bolted on to make up numbers and territory.

Whilst the nationalist sentiment amongst Pashtoons has waned over the years; you are here suggesting that it is alive and vociferous.

If you say that "Muhajir"'s don't brag about this perhaps it's because, they more than anyone else, needed Pakistan to create an identity. The Pashtoons, to be fair, would still be Pashtoon, with or without Pakistan, and hence Pakistan as an identity might not the first calling of the politically aware amongst us.

[girls-are-bad]

@ tor-khan: I would like to tell you that it hasn't declined. Muhajirs aren't responsible for cultural clashes because we speak the national language urdu. heck it's almost impossible to tell a mujhair from a punjabi or a sindhi etc. Pushtuns on the other hand speak pushto (I respect their desire to do so) so it doesn't help if in an ethnically diverse city like karachi 50% of the people speak pushtu and consider themselves to be pushtuns first and then pakistanis. It just promotes ethnic tension. Other communities like punjabi etc are fast integrating with each other, the new generation can't speak their ethnic language while on the flip side you would be hard pressed to find a pushtun kid incapable of speaking pashto. I hope you understand the point I'm trying to make here. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to judge pushtuns nor do I have the right to do it or to criticize what langauge they speak in karachi, I'm just "thinking out loud" and stating something which I believe is a thorn in the development of a common national spirit.

[KingKhan]

Sounds like Oriental Asians in NY. their proud Chinese people, who speak Chinese as first language.

Get used to it.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

@ tor-khan: I would like to tell you that it hasn't declined. Muhajirs aren't responsible for cultural clashes because we speak the national language urdu. heck it's almost impossible to tell a mujhair from a punjabi or a sindhi etc. Pushtuns on the other hand speak pushto (I respect their desire to do so) so it doesn't help if in an ethnically diverse city like karachi 50% of the people speak pushtu and consider themselves to be pushtuns first and then pakistanis. It just promotes ethnic tension. Other communities like punjabi etc are fast integrating with each other, the new generation can't speak their ethnic language while on the flip side you would be hard pressed to find a pushtun kid incapable of speaking pashto. I hope you understand the point I'm trying to make here. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to judge pushtuns nor do I have the right to do it or to criticize what langauge they speak in karachi, I'm just "thinking out loud" and stating something which I believe is a thorn in the development of a common national spirit.

What you are essentially asking Pashtuns to do is relegate their culture and identity to secondary status because in essence (and principle) urdu/noth indian culture = Pakistani. This is the issue many of us have. First of all, if they are capable of communicating with the other populations, then they have no need to make their language secondary, nor should they put under such a situation where they have to sideline their indentity for something else. Last I checked the justification for Pakistan was that it was the issue of two nation theory (hindu and muslim). Then again this proves that the flaw in that concept. Furthermore the last time someone tried the urdu imposition was Jinnah in Bengal and that backfired.

P.S. Kindly define this national spirit? What does it entail?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

@ tor-khan: I would like to tell you that it hasn't declined. Muhajirs aren't responsible for cultural clashes because we speak the national language urdu. heck it's almost impossible to tell a mujhair from a punjabi or a sindhi etc. Pushtuns on the other hand speak pushto (I respect their desire to do so) so it doesn't help if 50% of the people speak pushtu and consider themselves to be pushtuns first and then pakistanis. Other communities like punjabi etc are fast integrating with each other, the new generation can't speak their ethnic language while on the flip side you would be hard pressed to find a pushtun kid incapable of speaking pashto. I hope you understand the point I'm trying to make here. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to judge pushtuns nor do I have the right to do it or to criticize what langauge they speak in karachi, I'm just "thinking out loud" and stating something which I believe is a thorn in the development of a common national spirit.

Yeah but why should that Pashtun kid have to learn urdo for some "national spirit"? Its not like Pakistan is a country that is producing anything worth while, a leader country socially, religiously, or economically in any fashion... so why should urdo, a language forced on Sindhis (a Sindhi opthalmological colleague from Karachi told me this), Pashtuns, Baloch, etc. be the "binding tie"? Maybe you ought to think about what the utility is of forcing such a huge contingent of the population to speak Urdo, and what it does for your goals long term.

This is in no way like when Ron Paul or other Americans demand that Hispanic immigrants be obligated to learn English... as English is the language of Science and has become an almost universal language of sorts. Urdo on the other hand provides no benefit to that Pashtun immigrant to Karachi.

Nor is it a fair comparison to point to a European country like Germany and note that it mandates its own local language... that is much more fair because the Germanic people are just that... Germanic. The Pashtuns have a completely separate cultural identity.

Also, some of what you note may be a counter response to these impositions. One older physician from Pakistan, a Baloch guy that I see at the hospital, is still bitter about how urdo was compulsory all the way through medical school and he found this absurd. In the US, one is not even obligated to take English grammer courses beyond grade school... so why does Pakistan have this obssession with associating national character with Urdo?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

BA the upper echelon of the elite of the north Indian muslims supported Pakistan and hence this language has that pull. It is a great irony of state that imposes a language that had no economic use in 1947 and was spoken by barely 5-7 % of the population.

[gadoonwal]

@ gadoonwal: I am not sure where you got this. The number of immigrants from india and bangaldesh is nowhere even close to the number of pushtuns that migrate from KP to karachi. Like majority of urdu speaking people I'm against crime of any sort so it's unfair for you to label a whole group as bhatta khours and killers

pokhtunkhwa is under the control of pakistan and pashtuns are the citizens of that country and have every right to move freely into any city.
You can not compare them with bangladeshi and indain refugees.
Yes ,indain refugees are still coming with help of MQM into the back door.

You ask any Sindi they will expalin that to you.The migration is continue.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

BA the upper echelon of the elite of the north Indian muslims supported Pakistan and hence this language has that pull. It is a great irony of state that imposes a language that had no economic use in 1947 and was spoken by barely 5-7 % of the population.

I know its terribly sad. My maternal grandmother used to say "Kaleemaah dhey droosthaa ka?" in a language very similar to how my father' Qandahar side speaks.. and such purity of the Pashto language was found in the KP area. She could not even speak, much less understand urdo.. and now all her grand kids/cousins that live in nearbye villages to Peshawar incorporate words like "Jee" and "Teek taak" etc.

The unfortunate thing is that the refugees returning all picked up these loan words and bought them back to Afghanistan as well.

I know that its silly to bring that stuff up because language evolve with contact... but still, when even the basic phraseology like "I am fine" becomes "teek taak" it grates on my nerves.

[girls-are-bad]

@ king-khan: The situation in karachi is different. orinetal asians in NY, i am sure do not account for 50% of the population. this is where the problem lies.


@ BLS: It's not just a question of communicating with each other. it's about development and progression of both the language of a country and economy. do you think either urdu or pushto will be able to progress if half of the population speaks one and ther other half speaks another? as you said it yourself pushtuns have their own cultural identity and the problem with people here is that they are trying to establish it here as pushtuns are already almost 50% of the population.

By national spirit here what i mean here is

1. a common culture
2. a common language
3. no MAJOR ethnic splits (language is the strongest factor here)
4. no distinction between punjabi, sindhi, pushtun.
5. a common law and order system, not each ethnicity (divided into further tribes and castes) having their own jirgas/panchiats and whatnot.

if pushtuns want to avail the economic opportunities in karachi, in my opinion they should also try to integrate with the other communities here and that isn't possible if they continue considering themselves as a separate. this situation is different than that of oriental asians in america, hispanics in US because they form only a very small minority of the population, not 50%. I'm sure americans would not approve of it if the number of chinese speaking or hispanic people in united states grew to a number at par with those who speak english only. urdu is the national language of the country and is spoken and understood by almost everyone in the country so why not adopt it and promote it further? a recongised language has a big role to play in the development of a country

@barakzai:

i know it isnt exactly tempting to learn urdu but when living together we have to look towards developing the country, not advance our own culture.

[KingKhan]

They incorporate a lot. If you have ever been to China town, it's fueled with Chinese, chinese stores, Chinese writing their every where. In Queens, NY, the Chinese neighborhoods look like feel like your in China.

[graveyardofempires]

They incorporate a lot. If you have ever been to China town, it's fueled with Chinese, chinese stores, Chinese writing their every where. In Queens, NY, the Chinese neighborhoods look like feel like your in China.

this comparison is totally false

[Niazi]

@G r bad
So you are asking them to ditch their language and culture of 10000"$ years for some mongrol Indian so called second hand language,